white and whaley??

[snoop hawgy hawg]

Is there any chance these guys would split carries? Ala alex and williams or am i just reaching for the stars here? Would it be no way we could get both? :razorback:

[JIHawg]

There's 3 to 4 other guys who might have something to say about that.

[Hoggish1]

Is there any chance these guys would split carries? Ala alex and williams or am i just reaching for the stars here? Would it be no way we could get both? :razorback:

All recruits that commit will have to compete for the top two spots in the rotation.

If you come to Arkansas you are going to split your carries if you are in the mix for the top two sports on the roster.  That's CBB's style.  He has convinced many a back that it's in their best interest to carry fewer times in their college careers for two reasons:

1.  To stay healthy, so they are not worn out when they are done with the college game, and

2. Stay fresh during a game so they are as effective as possible throughout the game.

It's a no brainer.

That old BS that so and so bell cow just got better at the end of a game is a myth.  What happened is the defense got worn down so the bell cow could keep gaining yards.  The greater truth is that bell cow was adding wear and tear to his body over time.

Any high school kid that can't understand CBB's method and accept it, is not going to be playing at Arkansas.

[HogWall Jackson]

The NFL was convinced that Alabama Feature backs carried the ball too many times against SEC Defenses sustaining too much punishment resulting than less than was expected as an NFL Running Back. I am not saying this is best but when it comes Draft Day the scouts understand ability, performance and injuries. A Tire only has so many Miles in the Tread? I like what Coach B has done.

[JackJohnson]

Bama has always played with 2 primary backs carrying the ball and mixing in a 3rd how CBB does it.  LSU plays 3-4 splitting the carries.  Ole Miss and A&M split 4, but for only 50-75 carries each under Freeze and Sumlin.  In other words, splitting carries WOULD NOT be an impact for White/Whaley as all the schools they are considering do the same thing, if not split even more.

Mel Kiper actually considered this a positive for Jwill and Collins in their draft grades due to not being beaten up by the time they get to the NFL

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/131827/jonathan-williams

ESPN's Mel Kiper ranks Arkansas senior RB Jonathan Williams as the best senior running back prospect in the country.

"Williams has quick feet and can create space laterally without losing much steam," Kiper wrote. "The fact that he gets to split the carries is a good thing for his NFL prospects." Williams shares running duties with Alex Collins, another prime NFL prospect. The 6-foot, 223-pounder rushed for 1,190 yards and 12 touchdowns in 2014 to earn inclusion on the AP All-SEC second team. Jul 8 - 2:47 PM

[JaketheSnake]

CBB has shown he will split carries between 3RBs and that they can each still come close to 1000 yards

[GuvHog]

All recruits that commit will have to compete for the top two spots in the rotation.

If you come to Arkansas you are going to split your carries if you are in the mix for the top two sports on the roster.  That's CBB's style.  He has convinced many a back that it's in their best interest to carry fewer times in their college careers for two reasons:

1.  To stay healthy, so they are not worn out when they are done with the college game, and

2. Stay fresh during a game so they are as effective as possible throughout the game.

It's a no brainer.

That old BS that so and so bell cow just got better at the end of a game is a myth.  What happened is the defense got worn down so the bell cow could keep gaining yards.  The greater truth is that bell cow was adding wear and tear to his body over time.

Any high school kid that can't understand CBB's method and accept it, is not going to be playing at Arkansas.

Earl Campbell is a great example of that. He was one of the greatest backs in College Football history and the Longhorn's bell cow back. Because of the beating he took at Texas and in the NFL, he's spending the rest of his life confined to a wheelchair.

[redeye]

Here's a free article on Whaley from an OU source, written after his visit this weekend.  The author seems to think that OU and Georgia lead, with Arkansas ahead of Texas and A&M.  Whaley said his best chance for playing early would be at Arkansas, which is probably true.  Georgia's loaded at RB, so he'd have some stiff competition there.

https://thefootballbrainiacs.com/ou-oklahoma-sooners-football-recruiting-2016-devwah-whaley-running-back-georgia-bulldogs-jay-boulware-open-post

[SA Hog Fan]

Here's a free article on Whaley from an OU source, written after his visit this weekend.  The author seems to think that OU and Georgia lead, with Arkansas ahead of Texas and A&M.  Whaley said his best chance for playing early would be at Arkansas, which is probably true.  Georgia's loaded at RB, so he'd have some stiff competition there.

https://thefootballbrainiacs.com/ou-oklahoma-sooners-football-recruiting-2016-devwah-whaley-running-back-georgia-bulldogs-jay-boulware-open-post

He seems to be jumping to a lot of conclusions in that article. 

[arkansasrazorback]

Here's a free article on Whaley from an OU source, written after his visit this weekend.  The author seems to think that OU and Georgia lead, with Arkansas ahead of Texas and A&M.  Whaley said his best chance for playing early would be at Arkansas, which is probably true.  Georgia's loaded at RB, so he'd have some stiff competition there.

https://thefootballbrainiacs.com/ou-oklahoma-sooners-football-recruiting-2016-devwah-whaley-running-back-georgia-bulldogs-jay-boulware-open-post

If the kid can see his best chance to play early is Arkansas and he knows that Bielema puts backs in the NFL it is a no brainer.  If he does't choose Arkansas with the information he said he knows, then so be it.

[Wildhog]

I think Whaley likes us a lot, but I just don't see us getting him. 

Better chance at White, IMO.

[JackJohnson]

If the kid can see his best chance to play early is Arkansas and he knows that Bielema puts backs in the NFL it is a no brainer.  If he does't choose Arkansas with the information he said he knows, then so be it.

At some point though, you HAVE to close the deal.  I know here under CBB we put such an emphasis on evaluation of recruits, and I have NO DOUBT we do probably the most thorough evals in the country and that is very important ESP for what we are looking for in recruits for our program. 

However, when our school is hands down the obvious best choice with kids like White and Whaley (as Nolan told Billy Packer- a blind man can see that), you MUST be able to close the deal.  Here is to hoping that Singleton can be that closer we have been needed at the RB position

[ricepig]

I think Whaley likes us a lot, but I just don't see us getting him. 

Better chance at White, IMO.

What?? Not both of them?? I really don't have an idea, but White is just a bit higher in my pecking order, like 99.9 to 99.8.

[Wildhog]

What?? Not both of them?? I really don't have an idea, but White is just a bit higher in my pecking order, like 99.9 to 99.8.

I like White a lot more.  He's just a freak- one of those "once every few classes" type of talents.

But that has nothing to do with my thoughts on where we stand with him. 

[JackJohnson]

I like White a lot more.  He's just a freak- one of those "once every few classes" type of talents.

But that has nothing to do with my thoughts on where we stand with him. 

and it shouldn't have to be an either/or type of situation.  We badly want both, we would absolutely take both, and we desperately NEED both

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I'm wondering what the residual effect for one would be if the other committed.

[ldfergu]

I think Whaley likes us a lot, but I just don't see us getting him. 

Better chance at White, IMO.

[Huds_HawgTide]

and it shouldn't have to be an either/or type of situation.  We badly want both, we would absolutely take both, and we desperately NEED both

Agreed

[JaketheSnake]

At some point though, you HAVE to close the deal.  I know here under CBB we put such an emphasis on evaluation of recruits, and I have NO DOUBT we do probably the most thorough evals in the country and that is very important ESP for what we are looking for in recruits for our program. 

However, when our school is hands down the obvious best choice with kids like White and Whaley (as Nolan told Billy Packer- a blind man can see that), you MUST be able to close the deal.  Here is to hoping that Singleton can be that closer we have been needed at the RB position

No small task.  Imagine if you were an elite RB and you had to choose between Oregon or Cal and Cal was the obvious choice bc of playing time.  It would be hard to walk away from Oregon.  (trying to find two neutral teams and not saying the Hogs are either)

[bennyl08]

Bama has always played with 2 primary backs carrying the ball and mixing in a 3rd how CBB does it.  LSU plays 3-4 splitting the carries.  Ole Miss and A&M split 4, but for only 50-75 carries each under Freeze and Sumlin.  In other words, splitting carries WOULD NOT be an impact for White/Whaley as all the schools they are considering do the same thing, if not split even more.

Mel Kiper actually considered this a positive for Jwill and Collins in their draft grades due to not being beaten up by the time they get to the NFL

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/cfb/131827/jonathan-williams

ESPN's Mel Kiper ranks Arkansas senior RB Jonathan Williams as the best senior running back prospect in the country.

"Williams has quick feet and can create space laterally without losing much steam," Kiper wrote. "The fact that he gets to split the carries is a good thing for his NFL prospects." Williams shares running duties with Alex Collins, another prime NFL prospect. The 6-foot, 223-pounder rushed for 1,190 yards and 12 touchdowns in 2014 to earn inclusion on the AP All-SEC second team. Jul 8 - 2:47 PM

LSU only runs by committee when they don't have a stud. When they have a Ridley or a Hill or a Fournette, then they go to a primary runner system.

[MissippHog]

I think 8 or 9 wins coupled with a bowl win would go a long way in our efforts to land both. 

[ricepig]

I think 8 or 9 wins coupled with a bowl win would go a long way in our efforts to land both. 

I don't want to have to wait that long, lol.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I think 8 or 9 wins coupled with a bowl win would go a long way in our efforts to land both. 

I think we're way past that now.  Sure, we can't flop on the season, but 8 or 9 wins likely won't make much difference.  It will be about relationships. 

[Hawgzinbowlz]

Couple both a good relationship, with enough wins to convince our continued improvement, gives us an opportunity to land both.
Lots of successful programs are after these recruits and we need to get it right.
8-9 wins would let CBB sell year to year improvement.

" GO HOGS "

[redeye]

I think we're way past that now.  Sure, we can't flop on the season, but 8 or 9 wins likely won't make much difference.  It will be about relationships.

I'm usually arguing that wins don't matter that much, but I do think they matter some.  I think wins help get players interested enough to visit in the first place.  They may love a coach, but don't want to waste time visiting a program that isn't recognized as a winner.  Petrino's teams were winners, but the press often treated them like losers, which I think affected recruiting.  As Bielema wins more, I think we'll see recruiting take off more then we ever did with Petrino.

[The Boar War]

All recruits that commit will have to compete for the top two spots in the rotation.

If you come to Arkansas you are going to split your carries if you are in the mix for the top two sports on the roster.  That's CBB's style.  He has convinced many a back that it's in their best interest to carry fewer times in their college careers for two reasons:

1.  To stay healthy, so they are not worn out when they are done with the college game, and

2. Stay fresh during a game so they are as effective as possible throughout the game.

It's a no brainer.

That old BS that so and so bell cow just got better at the end of a game is a myth.  What happened is the defense got worn down so the bell cow could keep gaining yards.  The greater truth is that bell cow was adding wear and tear to his body over time.

Any high school kid that can't understand CBB's method and accept it, is not going to be playing at Arkansas.

I don't think any coach wanting to line up in an I formation and run between the tackles is going to bring this up.  They'd just be opening themselves up to criticism from the spread teams.

[The Boar War]

Earl Campbell is a great example of that. He was one of the greatest backs in College Football history and the Longhorn's bell cow back. Because of the beating he took at Texas and in the NFL, he's spending the rest of his life confined to a wheelchair.

Earl Campbell was a beast.  But there's more to longevity than the number of carries.  How many straight shots did he take over his career?  You have to be smart.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I'm usually arguing that wins don't matter that much, but I do think they matter some.  I think wins help get players interested enough to visit in the first place.  They may love a coach, but don't want to waste time visiting a program that isn't recognized as a winner.  Petrino's teams were winners, but the press often treated them like losers, which I think affected recruiting.  As Bielema wins more, I think we'll see recruiting take off more then we ever did with Petrino.

I agree they matter, but 8 or 9 wins is expected this season, so it won't be like any surprise to a recruit.  Sure, it will confirm for them that we're improving as a program, but I just think we're past that stage with guys like White and Whaley.  I think 8 or 9 wins this season will have more impact on a 2017 recruit.  The problem will be if we don't get to 8 or 9.

[JaketheSnake]

I think recruits look just as much (or more) at signature wins.  Beating LSU and Texas were big deals to recruits last year. 

I agree they matter, but 8 or 9 wins is expected this season, so it won't be like any surprise to a recruit.  Sure, it will confirm for them that we're improving as a program, but I just think we're past that stage with guys like White and Whaley.  I think 8 or 9 wins this season will have more impact on a 2017 recruit.  The problem will be if we don't get to 8 or 9.

[LRHawg]

I agree they matter, but 8 or 9 wins is expected this season, so it won't be like any surprise to a recruit.  Sure, it will confirm for them that we're improving as a program, but I just think we're past that stage with guys like White and Whaley.  I think 8 or 9 wins this season will have more impact on a 2017 recruit.  The problem will be if we don't get to 8 or 9.

I'm in the signature win boat when it comes to recruits, I think big time wins have more impact than the final record, as I think it's more about perception than the numbers with 16-18 year olds. I think it's how Ole Misstake got away with their end of the season slump last year. That one big win at home over Bama did more for them in recruiting than a few more W's on the record would have.

We have several opportunities this year to go into a hostile environment and come away with a big win, and I think we will win at Tenn and maybe even Tuscaloosa.

[KevinOMReb]

I'm in the signature win boat when it comes to recruits, I think big time wins have more impact than the final record, as I think it's more about perception than the numbers with 16-18 year olds. I think it's how Ole Misstake got away with their end of the season slump last year. That one big win at home over Bama did more for them in recruiting than a few more W's on the record would have.

We have several opportunities this year to go into a hostile environment and come away with a big win, and I think we will win at Tenn and maybe even Tuscaloosa.

Agree.  And I agree you'll win at Tennessee.  Never has so much been made (UT's end of year streak) of so little (the teams they beat sucked).  Tennessee is indeed improving but their offense line is still very young and inexperienced.  We were in their backfield all night.  So will the Hogs. 

[LRHawg]

To be fair to OM Kevin, they did pretty much have Auburn beat, if not for that accident at the end of the game. That does suck for them, and just shows you how unpredictable football can be. Every team has 1-2 players that if out for the season, would likely remove some W's. The Hogs are long overdue for some good luck.

[ARtillahog]

To be fair to OM Kevin, they did pretty much have Auburn beat, if not for that accident at the end of the game. That does suck for them, and just shows you how unpredictable football can be. Every team has 1-2 players that if out for the season, would likely remove some W's. The Hogs are long overdue for some good luck.

Auburn started to trail off towards the end of the season tho.  They gradually got worse rather than better.

Topic:  I am unsure about Whaley's chances of being a Hog but feel better about White than I probably should.

[IBleedRazorbackRed]

Dudley was on Bo's show today and said White is visiting us Thursday and staying 4 days. That lines up with what Otis has apparently been saying.

[ldfergu]

Well that's great news

[LRHawg]

Dudley was on Bo's show today and said White is visiting us Thursday and staying 4 days. That lines up with what Otis has apparently been saying.

Awesome news. He should get a great feel for life in Fayetteville.  :razorback:

[Pig in the Pokey]

Dudley was on Bo's show today and said White is visiting us Thursday and staying 4 days. That lines up with what Otis has apparently been saying.

very nice

[redeye]

I'm in the signature win boat when it comes to recruits, I think big time wins have more impact than the final record, as I think it's more about perception than the numbers with 16-18 year olds. I think it's how Ole Misstake got away with their end of the season slump last year. That one big win at home over Bama did more for them in recruiting than a few more W's on the record would have.

We have several opportunities this year to go into a hostile environment and come away with a big win, and I think we will win at Tenn and maybe even Tuscaloosa.

Yea, I also agree.  You mentioned Ole Miss, but you saw the same thing with Texas A&M and South Carolina after their wins over Alabama.  South Carolina's recruiting has since tailed off and A&M appears to be heading in that direction, too.  I'm sure it hasn't hurt Auburn, either.

Also, big wins typically come earlier in the year, unless it's a huge bowl game or upset in a conference championship.  Win big early and the media spends much of the season talking about you, but win big late and they just think you're a spoiler.  That's why our wins over LSU haven't paid off better.  That's not to say that they were any less impressive, but just that late-season wins don't draw as much attention.  Unfortunately, we never seem to play well early and always get our signature wins late, it seems.

[pigture perfect]

I saw the thread title and thought it was about me. I am both white and whale like.

[LRHawg]

Yea, I also agree.  You mentioned Ole Miss, but you saw the same thing with Texas A&M and South Carolina after their wins over Alabama.  South Carolina's recruiting has since tailed off and A&M appears to be heading in that direction, too.  I'm sure it hasn't hurt Auburn, either.

Also, big wins typically come earlier in the year, unless it's a huge bowl game or upset in a conference championship.  Win big early and the media spends much of the season talking about you, but win big late and they just think you're a spoiler.  That's why our wins over LSU haven't paid off better.  That's not to say that they were any less impressive, but just that late-season wins don't draw as much attention.  Unfortunately, we never seem to play well early and always get our signature wins late, it seems.

We have to hope that Enos's offense clicks. Lots of experience to go with all the talent on this team.

[Wildhog]

New Scout article on White:

Again, he says LSU, Bama and Ole Miss will for sure get OV's.  Lists Arkansas in his top six.

http://www.scout.com/college/football/recruiting/story/1572381-who-ll-top-ath-devin-white-visit-officially

[The Hogfather]

The problem is they are starting to get quite a few of the kids we really wanted.  I.E. the kids that meet all the checkmarks that are required for us to recruit them in terms of character, talent, work eithic, smarts, etc.

The last thing we want is to play other SEC schools filled with kids we zeroed in on that met that criteria so if they do they aren't getting paid.  We are just getting beat

I will say that I think a lot of the kids committing there are getting paid.  Then, this helps create a "cool school" rep with kids because so many elite kids are choosing to go there (because they are getting paid).  Even some of the UNCOMMON-types can be sucked in and not take money (or maybe take some $100 handshakes, which I don't see as a huge deal) because of the "cool school" rep and because some of their friends head there (see White).

[JackJohnson]

New Scout article on White:

Again, he says LSU, Bama and Ole Miss will for sure get OV's.  Lists Arkansas in his top six.

http://www.scout.com/college/football/recruiting/story/1572381-who-ll-top-ath-devin-white-visit-officially

White's "ride fell through" when he was supposed to come up for the spring game.  Then he has to cancel a visit due to a family vacation that was apparently last minute.  However this spring/summer he has found a way to make it to (and in most cases multiple trips) Bama, LSU, OM, AU, FSU and to the Opening in Oregon.

In most all interviews the schools he continually mentions most often and definitely when it comes to his official visits is Bama, LSU and OM.   

While there is a LONG way to Feb, and an entire season yet to be played,  as of RIGHT NOW it just doesn't look like it is happening with him...or Whaley.  Hopefully a double digit win season and another year of double 1k rushers changes things

[The Hogfather]

White's "ride fell through" when he was supposed to come up for the spring game.  Then he has to cancel a visit due to a family vacation that was apparently last minute.  However this spring/summer he has found a way to make it to (and in most cases multiple trips) Bama, LSU, OM, AU, FSU and to the Opening in Oregon.

In most all interviews the schools he continually mentions most often and definitely when it comes to his official visits is Bama, LSU and OM.   

While there is a LONG way to Feb, and an entire season yet to be played,  as of RIGHT NOW it just doesn't look like it is happening with him...or Whaley.  Hopefully a double digit win season and another year of double 1k rushers changes things

I agree.  It looks bad for White/Whaley, though I can't figure out why.  Like Bielema said, if we were to get White and/or Whaley (preferably White), we'd be a complete freakshow.

[ldfergu]

We aren't getting both IMO. I think everyone was discounting RWIII until reading recent reports. We will be fine, I mean a freak show, if we land either one of these guys

[JackJohnson]

I agree.  It looks bad for White/Whaley, though I can't figure out why.  Like Bielema said, if we were to get White and/or Whaley (preferably White), we'd be a complete freakshow.

My buddies and I at work talk about this very thing every single day.  I can't wrap my mind around it, and I will never be able to understand it if we don't end up signing one of these guys that we have put all of our eggs in their basket

[The Hogfather]

My buddies and I at work talk about this very thing every single day.  I can't wrap my mind around it, and I will never be able to understand it if we don't end up signing one of these guys that we have put all of our eggs in their basket

It makes no sense.  They have no real history of being good, have accomplished nothing since integration, have a pretty strong racism culture there, their coach had limited success at Arkansas State for a season, their facilities are average, Oxford, while a neat little town, is pretty boring and not urban at all.  There are literally very few areas where they can "win" against other SEC schools and many other non-SEC schools.  It has to be $$$$.

Also, for RBs specifically, it makes even less sense because of the offense Freeze runs.  He doesn't have a track record of churning out great RBs or even offensive linemen.  Compared to Bielema and Pittman, Freeze is high school.

[ricepig]

Well, you know you're getting at least a free dodge charger/challenger at Bama.  What are they getting from Ole Miss?

A discount on agent fees?

[Wildhog]

Freeze was at ASU before Malzahn.

[The Hogfather]

Freeze was at ASU before Malzahn.

Yes, my fault.  Edited.  Bottom line is he didn't build that program for success.  He used what was already there.