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Spears: Ark lost it's identity

Started by twistitup, November 09, 2017, 05:40:38 pm

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twistitup

From interview on Bo....

"When I saw B Allen throw the ball 50 times in one game- I knew they lost their identity. Ark has always been a tough out- but they don't have the players- never in a million years did I think I would ever say Ark is not a physical football team."

Marcus Spears nailed it....we simply lost out identity under CBB
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

Ex-Trumpet

Does Marcus not know that B Allen has been gone a couple years?
Do dyslexic, agnostic insomniacs lie awake at night wondering if there really is a dog?

 

twistitup

Quote from: Ex-Trumpet on November 09, 2017, 05:41:55 pm
Does Marcus not know that B Allen has been gone a couple years?

He knew we were headed downhill years ago...like many of us that have watched this unfold
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

PorkSoda

Quote from: twistitup on November 09, 2017, 05:43:26 pm
He knew we were headed downhill years ago...like many of us that have watched this unfold
yeah, we may not have been a good team, but I remember teams commenting that we were the most physical team they played all year.

we were not an easy out for anyone.

somewhere along they way, we lost that.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

Pigsknuckles

Waiting for us to show up on a milk carton, or amber alert.
"the ox is slow, but the Earth is patient"

Count Hogula

Quote from: PorkSoda on November 09, 2017, 06:03:44 pm
yeah, we may not have been a good team, but I remember teams commenting that we were the most physical team they played all year.

we were not an easy out for anyone.

somewhere along they way, we lost that.

This ^^^^

twistitup

Quote from: Count Hogula on November 09, 2017, 06:16:06 pm
This ^^^^

Exactly...

Spears also said- "Ark was one of my favorite teams because they played tough football the way it was meant to be played." He mentioned our big Olines and talented Dlines and the teams being tough for 4 qtrs every year
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

navyhog24

Would rather like to hear Bert has lost his appetite for once.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: twistitup on November 09, 2017, 05:40:38 pm
From interview on Bo....

"When I saw B Allen throw the ball 50 times in one game- I knew they lost their identity. Ark has always been a tough out- but they don't have the players- never in a million years did I think I would ever say Ark is not a physical football team."

Marcus Spears nailed it....we simply lost out identity under CBB

I heard him say this over a month ago on the SEC Network show, maybe on Finebaum as well.
Go Hogs Go!

theFlyingHog

BOT spent four hours this morning trying to find our identity. One guy said "It's in Memphis!" and everyone else yelled "Dilly Dilly!" and they decided to fire BB and JL and bring Coke back to Fayetteville and close Bud Walton and move basketball back to Barnhill and also moved the LSU home game back to WMS, but only after approving $1.2B to upgrade it

Sed76

In all seriousness, what was our "identity"? Underachieving and blowing games we should have won is all that comes to mind during the Bielema era.

bphi11ips

Contrary to those who insist otherwise, Arkansas's identity has always been physical football. BP didn't get that. He had a CUSA mentality and that is what started this. I can say that now because I said it when he was winning here.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

From Tusk Till Dawn

So we established ourselves as a tough outing in CBB's first 3 years because of physical oline play.  Yet in that 3rd year B Allen was most successful (everyone was pissed because he wasnt all sec), we probably had arguably our strongest backfield, and we had our best record.  But thats when the slide started, uh huh...

 

rude1

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 06:34:12 pm
Contrary to those who insist otherwise, Arkansas's identity has always been physical football. BP didn't get that. He had a CUSA mentality and that is what started this. I can say that now because I said it when he was winning here.
Yeah better to be thought of a physical football team and win 6 or 7 games, than use that CUSA mentality and win 10 back to back...............

The Hawg Marshal

Quote from: rude1 on November 09, 2017, 06:46:11 pm
Yeah better to be thought of a physical football team and win 6 or 7 games, than use that CUSA mentality and win 10 back to back...............
Exactly +1

From Tusk Till Dawn

Quote from: The Hawg Marshal on November 09, 2017, 06:54:48 pm
Exactly +1
The tough part though is only people from Ark remember we were successful, everyone else just remembers the spectacle. 

bphi11ips

Quote from: rude1 on November 09, 2017, 06:46:11 pm
Yeah better to be thought of a physical football team and win 6 or 7 games, than use that CUSA mentality and win 10 back to back...............

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Quote from: From Tusk Till Dawn on November 09, 2017, 07:01:55 pm
The tough part though is only people from Ark remember we were successful, everyone else just remembers the spectacle. 

The trouble is most of you can't remember anything before 2010.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hehawg

We went from the biggest offensive line in the country to soft as a sonic vanilla milkshake
#LEFTLANE
#HAMMERDOWN!

From Tusk Till Dawn

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 07:38:35 pm
The trouble is most of you can't remember anything before 2010.

I do.  Im not sure if you are referencing the SWC days which are full of glory and tradition.  I just dont talk about them because I dont think they are relevant anymore.  Weve been in the sec for a quarter century now so I try to stay in that lane.  Unfortunately we are kinda known for our dirty laundry since Nutt and Petrino.

Hawghiggs

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 07:37:41 pm
You have no clue what you’re talking about.



Then you should explain yourself.

Rudy Baylor

Quote from: twistitup on November 09, 2017, 05:43:26 pm
He knew we were headed downhill years ago...like many of us that have watched this unfold

No he didn't

Such BS

bphi11ips

Quote from: Hawghiggs on November 09, 2017, 08:10:40 pm
Then you should explain yourself.

If you don't understand Arkansas football and what made it what it is I can't help you much. I explained it here while Petrino was recruiting 18 receivers in every class and changing uniforms every other game. When he was lucking into wins over Vanderbilt, Ole Miss and A&M. And when he was getting plowed under by Alabama and LSU.

I get pretty sick of hearing about nostalgia here. Either you understand fundamentally sound, physical football or you don't. Why do you think Arkansas is still 19 in greatest college football programs of all time?  Because it played physical offense, defense and special teams. For decades. Look at the other teams in that top 20. Almost all of them did.

For all his personal faults, Houston Nutt's teams played physical football. Do you think physical football is limited to the o-line?  No. And that is not what Marcus Spears is talking about. Marcus Spears played against Nutt coached teams. Even when they were mediocre they would hit you in the mouth. So would Ford's teams. Nutt's 2006 team would have beaten the snot out of BP's teams. 2010 was as close as BP got to a complete football team.

Hogville is full of people who don't understand college football.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

 

Rudy Baylor


IronHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 06:34:12 pm
Contrary to those who insist otherwise, Arkansas's identity has always been physical football. BP didn't get that. He had a CUSA mentality and that is what started this. I can say that now because I said it when he was winning here.



BB got soft when he lost BPs battle hardened players.......

Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

bphi11ips

Quote from: Rudy Baylor on November 09, 2017, 08:36:43 pm
Or maybe that's you actually

I know you are but what am I?  Lol. Did you learn that in kindergarten?

Go back and you'll see me getting flamed for saying the same things Marcus Spears is saying now, but I said it in 2011.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Quote from: IronHog on November 09, 2017, 08:40:33 pm


BB got soft when he lost BPs battle hardened players.......



Nonsense. Arkansas got soft when BP stopped recruiting balanced classes.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hogginbama

I honestly think BB wanted to come here and play smash-mouth football, but realized he couldn't recruit well enough to go toe-to-toe with the Bama's, LSU's and Auburn's and win on a regular basis. When Chaney left, that forced him to hire a new OC, and in came Enos. Enos brought an offense more suited to anything but smash mouth, which I think BB wanted to move to in order to have an option other than smash-mouth. With that move came the O-Line issues since we had linemen suited for smash-mouth and not an outside/passing/screen game. The younger linemen are better adapted to the newer offense, but a terribly out muscled and inexperienced. Switching philosophy's mid-stream is tough on any organization and I don't think BB was prepared for the level of difficulty it would bring.
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

go hogues

Quote from: hehawg on November 09, 2017, 07:40:32 pm
We went from the biggest offensive line in the country to soft as a sonic vanilla milkshake
Yeah, but we're #Uncommon and #NeverYield
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

IronHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 08:42:01 pm
Nonsense. Arkansas got soft when BP stopped recruiting balanced classes.


BB is in his 5th year

The few tough guys he recruited are already gone.....
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

twistitup

Quote from: Rudy Baylor on November 09, 2017, 08:31:33 pm
No he didn't

Such BS

Listen to the interview- Spears said he knew we were in trouble back in BA days when we didn't play tough anymore...threw too much- lost identity
How you gonna win when you ain't right within?

Here I am again mixing misery and gin....

IronHog

Quote from: twistitup on November 09, 2017, 08:48:30 pm
Listen to the interview- Spears said he knew we were in trouble back in BA days when we didn't play tough anymore...threw too much- lost identity


You can recruit QBs and skill players at Arkansas


BB was the wrong identity all along
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

CareBear

Yes indeed Arkansas has been known throughout my 42 yrs on earth as a physical football team. Nutt's teams were the ones that Marcus Spears faced. Marcus Spears was a force to be reckoned with on the D-line. It's guys like him that wreck a vanilla system like Bert wanted to run. Hatfield had the wishbone & a mobile QB, Nutt had plenty of great backs & was more wide open than CBB. Petrino's teams were much, much tougher than ANY team BErt has fielded & Bobby could call them plays son!. Bert has problems identifying talent, finding an ideal position for said talent, playing favorites, & is dead set on running that gross BIG Ten Jumbo package that was never gonna work. I love running the football as much as the next guy, but one has to be creative in the way you draw up the running plays. Why handcuff yourself to a sh*tty formation just to prove a point. Bert did not bring physicality to the Arkansas Razorbacks & we have run the ball enough around here to know a good ground game. CBB has made us soft. We can do SOOOOOOO much better than this y'all. We've seen it. It's that fighting Hog spirit that has been missing. Bert & Jen & Jeffy Boy have hijacked our program...Hoganese, Throwing The A, #uncommon, etc. It's been a sh*t show from the day that man got here. All I want for Christmas is for CBB & Jen to be away from the program. I wish them the best with their new baby , but hands off our football program. They did a helluva lot of damage in 5 yrs. Ridiculous! 

I buried a dear friend yesterday in Springdale. Rabid Hog fan. Murdered in Tulsa last week. Arkansas memorabilia in the casket with him. We cannot let complete apathy set in. This is serious business folks

Smalltownhog95

Quote from: theFlyingHog on November 09, 2017, 06:32:15 pm
BOT spent four hours this morning trying to find our identity. One guy said "It's in Memphis!" and everyone else yelled "Dilly Dilly!" and they decided to fire BB and JL and bring Coke back to Fayetteville and close Bud Walton and move basketball back to Barnhill and also moved the LSU home game back to WMS, but only after approving $1.2B to upgrade it
Your ideas signify you're a true friend to the Razorback crown Dilly Dilly! Now someone show Jeff Long to the pit of Misery.
Wait a minute this isn't chinese checkers.. This isn't even regular checkers!

hogginbama

Quote from: CareBear on November 09, 2017, 09:08:57 pm
Yes indeed Arkansas has been known throughout my 42 yrs on earth as a physical football team. Nutt's teams were the ones that Marcus Spears faced. Marcus Spears was a force to be reckoned with on the D-line. It's guys like him that wreck a vanilla system like Bert wanted to run. Hatfield had the wishbone & a mobile QB, Nutt had plenty of great backs & was more wide open than CBB. Petrino's teams were much, much tougher than ANY team BErt has fielded & Bobby could call them plays son!. Bert has problems identifying talent, finding an ideal position for said talent, playing favorites, & is dead set on running that gross BIG Ten Jumbo package that was never gonna work. I love running the football as much as the next guy, but one has to be creative in the way you draw up the running plays. Why handcuff yourself to a sh*tty formation just to prove a point. Bert did not bring physicality to the Arkansas Razorbacks & we have run the ball enough around here to know a good ground game. CBB has made us soft. We can do SOOOOOOO much better than this y'all. We've seen it. It's that fighting Hog spirit that has been missing. Bert & Jen & Jeffy Boy have hijacked our program...Hoganese, Throwing The A, #uncommon, etc. It's been a sh*t show from the day that man got here. All I want for Christmas is for CBB & Jen to be away from the program. I wish them the best with their new baby , but hands off our football program. They did a helluva lot of damage in 5 yrs. Ridiculous! 

I buried a dear friend yesterday in Springdale. Rabid Hog fan. Murdered in Tulsa last week. Arkansas memorabilia in the casket with him. We cannot let complete apathy set in. This is serious business folks

So Spears said we lost our identity of being tough and running the ball and all the other posters say we started our slide when we started passing more. You say Nutt, who everyone hated for not passing more, was more wide open than CBB and also that we need more creative play calling instead of just running the ball. Damn I am so confused here, either we lost our identity and got away from running, or we need to be more creative with a more wide open offense. Which is it, it can't possibly be both.
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

bphi11ips

Quote from: IronHog on November 09, 2017, 08:45:58 pm

BB is in his 5th year

The few tough guys he recruited are already gone.....

I'm not talking about BB or any particular class.  I know Spears comment was about BA passing the ball 50 times. 

I'm talking about Arkansas's identity as a PROGRAM, the identity that made it a TOP 20 PROGRAM.  Crowe screwed the fundamentally sound part of it up in less than two years.  Broyles hired Ford to fix it.  He did at least to the extent he put together a roster of hardnosed football players who could run and stop the run.  What did Orgeron just say about why LSU is playing well?  "We've learned to run and stop the run." 

Nutt showed up with a wide open offense by Ford and Broyles standards and did well with Stoerner, Lucas and Davenport because he could run and play defense.  Broyles reined him in on passing but made sure he kept the defense and special teams.

Petrino came in and turned Arkansas's mindset into Louisville, Thursday-night style football.  Fans bought into it and now they're clamoring for Oregon and Baylor, 

Spears is right.  Arkansas has no identity.  Worse, its fans don't even know what he's talking about.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hawgmasta

Quote from: twistitup on November 09, 2017, 06:25:20 pm
Exactly...

Spears also said- "Ark was one of my favorite teams because they played tough football the way it was meant to be played." He mentioned our big Olines and talented Dlines and the teams being tough for 4 qtrs every year

That s$&t hurts to hear.

bphi11ips

Quote from: twistitup on November 09, 2017, 06:25:20 pm
Exactly...

Spears also said- "Ark was one of my favorite teams because they played tough football the way it was meant to be played." He mentioned our big Olines and talented Dlines and the teams being tough for 4 qtrs every year

Does this sound to you like Spears was referring to CBB's teams before BA threw the ball 50 times in a game?  Or was he referring to the teams he grew up with and played against?
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

From Tusk Till Dawn

If he was talking about our identity from when he played against us then he is just wrong.  That identity was first changed when CBP was hired, changed again when CBB was hired and again when we switched OC's.

bphi11ips

Quote from: From Tusk Till Dawn on November 09, 2017, 09:52:56 pm
If he was talking about our identity from when he played against us then he is just wrong.  That identity was first changed when CBP was hired, changed again when CBB was hired and again when we switched OC's.

I think he was referring to both.  I'm not convinced CBB knew anything about Arkansas when he got here.  But Marcus Spears did and thought CBB was taking us back to the style of football we played for 50 years.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

ChicoHog

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 09:16:19 pm
I'm not talking about BB or any particular class.  I know Spears comment was about BA passing the ball 50 times. 

I'm talking about Arkansas's identity as a PROGRAM, the identity that made it a TOP 20 PROGRAM.  Crowe screwed the fundamentally sound part of it up in less than two years.  Broyles hired Ford to fix it.  He did at least to the extent he put together a roster of hardnosed football players who could run and stop the run.  What did Orgeron just say about why LSU is playing well?  "We've learned to run and stop the run." 

Nutt showed up with a wide open offense by Ford and Broyles standards and did well with Stoerner, Lucas and Davenport because he could run and play defense.  Broyles reined him in on passing but made sure he kept the defense and special teams.

Petrino came in and turned Arkansas's mindset into Louisville, Thursday-night style football.  Fans bought into it and now they're clamoring for Oregon and Baylor, 

Spears is right.  Arkansas has no identity.  Worse, its fans don't even know what he's talking about.
Well said.  You win in the trenches.  Ask UGA, Bama, Notre Dame and Clemson.  the top 4 teams right now have good lines on both sides of the ball. 

ShadowHawg

Quote from: From Tusk Till Dawn on November 09, 2017, 09:52:56 pm
If he was talking about our identity from when he played against us then he is just wrong.  That identity was first changed when CBP was hired, changed again when CBB was hired and again when we switched OC's.

No. He specifically referenced the Toledo game as his aha moment.

He was saying CBB abandoned his own identity once that started.

ShadowTheHedgehog

Quote from: twistitup on November 09, 2017, 05:40:38 pm
From interview on Bo....

"When I saw B Allen throw the ball 50 times in one game- I knew they lost their identity. Ark has always been a tough out- but they don't have the players- never in a million years did I think I would ever say Ark is not a physical football team."

Marcus Spears nailed it....we simply lost out identity under CBB


Coach, I'm delicate.

rude1

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 09, 2017, 07:37:41 pm
You have no clue what you're talking about.


Basic math my friend try it 10> 6 or 7, hey and on a rebuild year it was still 8.......Just saying.

SooieGeneris

Nutt had plenty of great backs & was more wide open than CBB.

You've got to be kidding! His last 5 years, all we ran were the same 4-5 plays over and over, no passes to the TE, no passes over the middle, no passes more than 5 yards past the LOS, PLEASE!

I want Bert gone as much as the next guy, but his offenses are not nearly as stodgy as Hooty's. If anything, the offense has become too finesse, not too conservative.

People have selective memories. I was concerned about Bert from the start, feeling that with most offenses being at least a version of the spread with the rules favoring that, that we would be on the wrong side of history.

I gave him a chance unlike some and it just hasn't worked out. If we are going to run a finesse offense, we need to commit to it all the way and recruit more speed.

Since Pittman left, we seem to be trying to run a mishmash of what the Tennessee Titans call "exotic smashmouth."

The problem with that is we don't have a running threat at QB, and please don't try to tell me that Cole Kelley with his 4.9 forty time puts the same pressure on a defense running as say, a DeShaun Watson, or even most of the QBs we play against.

We lack an identity just as the basketball team did under Failphrey. You can't be an uptempo team one game and play Eddie ball the next and switch back and forth at random with no rhyme or reason.

You have to recruit to a system or tweak your system to the players at hand until you get your players. You have to have something to hang your hat on that you can do week in and week out against anyone to win much in the SEC.

I see none of that from us. I think we have more speed than most think, we just don't use it properly (see TJ Hammonds) and we slow recruits down after they get here with the old B1G bulk 'em up mentality.

But, I guarantee you that Ohio State and some other members of the Big 10 are faster than us. Suburban Cryer changed that league and we are trying to play to the script Wisconsin won with several years ago before Meyer brought that program back.

When the stinkin' Badgers won those titles PSU and OSU were on probation, also. We are trying to play a little Big 10 style, a little MAC, a little this and that and it's not working.

DJ Williams said the other night that we are loosey-goosey in practice, unlike BP, and basically said BB is too easy on the players in practice with no on field discipline.

We need a coach who can adapt to the personnel on hand in the short term, recruit well to his system, give the fanbase hope, get the players to buy in and sell his program aggressively.

And have an identity and stick to it without being too stubborn or inflexible. Not what we have in Bert, at least the post-Pittman Bert who can't seem to decide what he wants this team to be...
KJ Jefferson, one of only 2 QBs in UA history to go 2-0 in Bowl Games..

Mac attack: McAdoo & McGlothern co-winners of the Thorpe Award 2023?

From Tusk Till Dawn

Quote from: ShadowHawg on November 09, 2017, 10:02:37 pm
No. He specifically referenced the Toledo game as his aha moment.

He was saying CBB abandoned his own identity once that started.
I understand that, was responding based on some previous questions about what he was referring to.  Either way, his aha moment was wrong.  That was our most successful year, I get the Toledo game was a let down (they won 10 games that year) but BA was lights out and Collins was a 1600 yard back.  So I call BS.  Our progression was trending positively unti Mizzou last year, thats when the train got off the track.

rude1

I would take this with a grain of salt also, remember Spears played when that was how the game was played and won, the game and rules have changed to favor the offense and thus the reason everyone who is anyone is using the spread offense. Sorry for you ole skool guys who can't let it go, but the 3 yards and a cloud of dust days are gone......................

wildhogman

Quote from: rude1 on November 09, 2017, 10:06:34 pm
Basic math my friend try it 10> 6 or 7, hey and on a rebuild year it was still 8.......Just saying.
I am soooooo sick of the microwave generation pimping Booby the boob man petrino. His offenses were pretty. His defense offensive and the poster who mentioned is right. of that 10 win season which I loved, he was lucky to win a few of those games.  He is 5-4 this year with a returning QB who won the Heisman last year and that's the best he could do. Watch Louisville the next few years.
As for identity, Spears is right. The hogs have always been known as one of the hardest hitting teams in the game. Players like Atwater, Dan Hampton, dirt Winston. Many many more all made sure of this. 
Now we are a mashmellow team.  We might as well do what so many of you want and convert fully to the spread and have track meets every weekend. That is except when you play the cream of the SEC.  Anyone watch Bama this year and think a high octane offense scared them?  You better have a defense that will bring the pain. Because their D is going to every down of every game.
I just hope Arkansas can get back to that mentality before My time is over.  I miss a tough hard nosed football team with a never die attitude. 

ShadowHawg

Quote from: From Tusk Till Dawn on November 09, 2017, 10:17:46 pm
I understand that, was responding based on some previous questions about what he was referring to.  Either way, his aha moment was wrong.  That was our most successful year, I get the Toledo game was a let down (they won 10 games that year) but BA was lights out and Collins was a 1600 yard back.  So I call BS.  Our progression was trending positively unti Mizzou last year, thats when the train got off the track.

Disagree. Nearly everyone will tell you that may have been a high water mark for wins, but that team also underachieved big time.

He was saying the softness began that season and that what you see before you is what it looks like in its third year now. He wasn't saying that we were suddenly soft because Enos came on board.

He is saying he identified what was happening as a problem for the future of a team built around being physical. Looks like he was correct.