Some more WMS/GSD chatter......

[ricepig]

You can't say the UofA isn't willing to play there.

http://amp.wholehogsports.com/news/2017/nov/15/uas-view-war-memorial-need-10m-update/

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Yeah heard a local show and the guys were talking about well they play a BBall game at Verizon and BSB at Dickey Stephens.  The thing is we probably wouldn't play those games if the facilities were as outdated as War Memorial.  Verizon is a modern facility with a decent seating capacity and amenities and Dickey Stephens is one of the nicest AA stadiums around and is barely 10 years old.  So it makes sense for the U of A to say ok if we are going to keep playing there we want a modern facility, and actually these days 10mil does not buy much in terms of upgrades.

[TrueBlue]

Funny about the calculations of "net revenue comparisons". If they keep CBB, I am sure those numbers will be distorted quite a bit.

This is the interesting part:

In addition, a working group of SEC athletic directors will review minimum requirements for football facilities, which could require $1.95 million to $3.3 million in upgrades, such as expanding the size of home and visiting locker rooms and team meeting spaces; providing secure access for teams to their locker rooms; additional security cameras and the establishment of a stadium command center; and dedicated postgame news conference rooms for home and visiting teams, according to UA.

Herb Vincent, an associate commissioner at the SEC, said Tuesday that "the working group is still being developed and therefore there have been no meetings of this group to date."

Again, if Mr. Integrity and CBB stays, who will care?

[The NewEra]

My takeaway from the article is the ball is in the court of Asa and those in Central Arkansas who have money and insist there be games played at WMS.  It seems to me that as Governor it's a tough sell to the public for Asa to use state money to upgrade the stadium with $10MM when that's probably only going to be enough to keep the games there for a few years, before another large infusion of money is necessary.

[dfwalumdad]

catholic high has a brand new practice facility with field turf thanks to jerry jones. bleacher capacity for about 200.

if we keep bert maybe they'll let us use that. 

[Ex-Trumpet]

Back when I was in school ('80's) the LR games were awesome.  Totally different atmosphere than Fayetteville.  But, real teams were scheduled there too.  Students went to the games, NWA folks went to the games.  It was a party for everyone!  Now...

And the atmosphere isn't helped when the head coach says it's not a home game/a road game, or whatever he said it was.

I'm all for a LR game or two as long as they aren't pissant teams (Hogs or opponents!).  Bring back the party!!

[Lady Razorback]

Yeah heard a local show and the guys were talking about well they play a BBall game at Verizon and BSB at Dickey Stephens.  The thing is we probably wouldn't play those games if the facilities were as outdated as War Memorial.  Verizon is a modern facility with a decent seating capacity and amenities and Dickey Stephens is one of the nicest AA stadiums around and is barely 10 years old.  So it makes sense for the U of A to say ok if we are going to keep playing there we want a modern facility, and actually these days 10mil does not buy much in terms of upgrades.

I love games in Little Rock and War Memorial, however I can realistically see the issues with the stadium.  I agree with your assessment of Verizon and Dickey Stephens.  I, too, was surprised that WMS was only looking at a $10 million improvement.  I do believe however with the risk of UA pulling that one game that going into debt for anything much larger than $10 million might be too risky.  I see it as a catch 22.  You do have to do something, but not too much that you can't afford to repay should Arkansas pulls that game. 

[bphi11ips]

Yeah heard a local show and the guys were talking about well they play a BBall game at Verizon and BSB at Dickey Stephens.  The thing is we probably wouldn't play those games if the facilities were as outdated as War Memorial.  Verizon is a modern facility with a decent seating capacity and amenities and Dickey Stephens is one of the nicest AA stadiums around and is barely 10 years old.  So it makes sense for the U of A to say ok if we are going to keep playing there we want a modern facility, and actually these days 10mil does not buy much in terms of upgrades.

The upgrades described were more related to electronic infrastructure than anything else.  Dressing rooms and new turf were on the list.  The things most Hogville posters find objectionable are not on the list, namely seating capacity and modern curb appeal. 

[Lady Razorback]

catholic high has a brand new practice facility with field turf thanks to jerry jones. bleacher capacity for about 200.

if we keep bert maybe they'll let us use that.

However, Catholic High continues to play in War Memorial.  Yeah, maybe their practice field is nicer than the real thing.   

[Drop the Mike]

checkmate

[Cotton]

Yeah heard a local show and the guys were talking about well they play a BBall game at Verizon and BSB at Dickey Stephens.  The thing is we probably wouldn't play those games if the facilities were as outdated as War Memorial.  Verizon is a modern facility with a decent seating capacity and amenities and Dickey Stephens is one of the nicest AA stadiums around and is barely 10 years old.  So it makes sense for the U of A to say ok if we are going to keep playing there we want a modern facility, and actually these days 10mil does not buy much in terms of upgrades.

I agree with you, and additionally those two sports have many, many more games in their season so the extra exposure makes more sense.


War Memorial will always be a great memory to thousands of Hog fans... but it's time to pull the plug and let Grandpa go home to be with the Lord.

[Razorbackers]

Yeah heard a local show and the guys were talking about well they play a BBall game at Verizon and BSB at Dickey Stephens.  The thing is we probably wouldn't play those games if the facilities were as outdated as War Memorial.  Verizon is a modern facility with a decent seating capacity and amenities and Dickey Stephens is one of the nicest AA stadiums around and is barely 10 years old.  So it makes sense for the U of A to say ok if we are going to keep playing there we want a modern facility, and actually these days 10mil does not buy much in terms of upgrades.

Yeah, also there are plenty of basketball and baseball games, and only a handful of home football games.

[hogsanity]

So we are scheduling home and home series with bigger name schools, Michigan, before they ran away to play ND, Notre Dame, maybe Texas, among others, which means every other year only 3 non-conf games. We are locked into the stupid  A&M in Arlington thing ( in part to help pay for playing games in LR ) and we are expanding DWRRS, so yea lets keep playing another game every year away from campus. All other arguments aside, that makes no sense at all.

[DeltaBoy]

Since WMS is owned by the State then the Governor and Legislature need to pony up the bucks and get it done.

[Ex-Trumpet]

So we are scheduling home and home series with bigger name schools, Michigan, before they ran away to play ND, Notre Dame, maybe Texas, among others, which means every other year only 3 non-conf games. We are locked into the stupid  A&M in Arlington thing ( in part to help pay for playing games in LR ) and we are expanding DWRRS, so yea lets keep playing another game every year away from campus. All other arguments aside, that makes no sense at all.

I'd rather play aTm home and home.  For those who have never been to Kyle Field and beat the aggies, it's worth the trip.  We could schedule a non-con game in Arlington.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Yeah, also there are plenty of basketball and baseball games, and only a handful of home football games.

Agreed so since their is such a limited inventory of FB games it raises the importance of each home game in terms of W/L, recruiting, fan appeal and even stature.  You can't just burn one off.

[JOKERHOG]

Yeah heard a local show and the guys were talking about well they play a BBall game at Verizon and BSB at Dickey Stephens.  The thing is we probably wouldn't play those games if the facilities were as outdated as War Memorial.  Verizon is a modern facility with a decent seating capacity and amenities and Dickey Stephens is one of the nicest AA stadiums around and is barely 10 years old.  So it makes sense for the U of A to say ok if we are going to keep playing there we want a modern facility, and actually these days 10mil does not buy much in terms of upgrades.

No doubt, 100 mill might be a good start

[Hogwild]

So we are scheduling home and home series with bigger name schools, Michigan, before they ran away to play ND, Notre Dame, maybe Texas, among others, which means every other year only 3 non-conf games. We are locked into the stupid  A&M in Arlington thing ( in part to help pay for playing games in LR ) and we are expanding DWRRS, so yea lets keep playing another game every year away from campus. All other arguments aside, that makes no sense at all.

The only Power 5 team we have scheduled on the road between now and 2025 is a trip to South Bend in 2020.
We have the fewest power 5 teams on our future scheduled than any other team in the West, by a lot.


I doubt we will have a home and away scheduled with Texas, besides the return game, the Longhorns have home and aways scheduled with USC, LSU, Ohio St., and Michigan prior to 2025. Not to mention that the Governor is to restart the A&M series.

[hogsanity]

I'd rather play aTm home and home.  For those who have never been to Kyle Field and beat the aggies, it's worth the trip.  We could schedule a non-con game in Arlington.

But that is still sending a home game to Arlington. How about we just do like everyone else and play home games at home?

[hogsanity]

The only Power 5 team we have scheduled on the road between now and 2025 is a trip to South Bend in 2020.
We have the fewest power 5 teams on our future scheduled than any other team in the West, by a lot.


I doubt we will have a home and away scheduled with Texas, besides the return game, the Longhorns have home and aways scheduled with USC, LSU, Ohio St., and Michigan prior to 2025. Not to mention that the Governor is to restart the A&M series.

To be fair we did have Michigan in 18 & 19, that we are not playing them is not the Hogs fault. So that would have been those games in 18 & 19, ND in 20, maybe the TX return game in 21, and who knows what 22 forward would bring.

[Hogwild]

To be fair we did have Michigan in 18 & 19, that we are not playing them is not the Hogs fault. So that would have been those games in 18 & 19, ND in 20, maybe the TX return game in 21, and who knows what 22 forward would bring.

Even with the home and home with Michigan added, that would have giving us a total of two home and aways scheduled between now and 2025, that's not a lot of big schools.

Just by comparison Ole Miss has games with Ga Tech, Louisville, Wake Forest, Cal, Texas Tech and Penn State on their schedules.  Auburn has Oregon, Washington, Penn State, and Cal already scheduled.

[Atlhogfan1]

Legalize weed and do so by pitching part of the tax revenue will go to significantly upgrading WMS.  Tear down both endzones with those horrible metal stands with tin under them.  Make room for the new locker rooms, expanded concessions, restrooms and some premium seating while building new stands in both.  Don't have to push the capacity up much.  Make the ticket be one of desired demand.  Spend $200 million.  Colorado State just built a beautiful new 41,000 seat stadium for $240 million.  Don't have to go all out as we are in the NEZ expansion. 

[Ex-Trumpet]

But that is still sending a home game to Arlington. How about we just do like everyone else and play home games at home?

But it isn't "everyone else."   This year alone:

Stanford vs. Rice:  Sydney, Australia
Colorado State vs. Colorado:  Denver, CO (not a stretch here)
Florida State vs. Alabama:  Atlanta, GA
BYU vs. LSU:  New Orleans, LA (basically a home game for LSU)
Michigan vs. Florida:  Arlington, TX
Louisville vs. Purdue:  Indianapolis, IN
NC State vs. South Carolina:  Charlotte, NC
West Virginia vs. Virginia Tech:  Landover, MD
Tennessee vs. Georgia Tech:  Atlanta, GA
Arkansas vs. Texas A&M:  Arlington, TX
Oklahoma vs. Texas:  Dallas, TX
Georgia vs. Florida:  Jacksonville, FL
Baylor vs. Texas Tech:  Arlington, TX
Maine vs. UMass:  Boston, MA
Boston College vs. UConn:  Boston, MA
Army vs. Navy:  Philadelphia, PA

[Atlhogfan1]

The A&M series was a much better idea when it was a non conference game.  Derailing the thread though discussing it.  Should focus on the feasibility and reasoning of renovating WMS. 

[hogsanity]

But it isn't "everyone else."   This year alone:

Stanford vs. Rice:  Sydney, Australia
Colorado State vs. Colorado:  Denver, CO (not a stretch here)
Florida State vs. Alabama:  Atlanta, GA
BYU vs. LSU:  New Orleans, LA (basically a home game for LSU)
Michigan vs. Florida:  Arlington, TX
Louisville vs. Purdue:  Indianapolis, IN
NC State vs. South Carolina:  Charlotte, NC
West Virginia vs. Virginia Tech:  Landover, MD
Tennessee vs. Georgia Tech:  Atlanta, GA
Arkansas vs. Texas A&M:  Arlington, TX
Oklahoma vs. Texas:  Dallas, TX
Georgia vs. Florida:  Jacksonville, FL
Baylor vs. Texas Tech:  Arlington, TX
Maine vs. UMass:  Boston, MA
Boston College vs. UConn:  Boston, MA
Army vs. Navy:  Philadelphia, PA

Only 4 of those are conference games, and two if those 4 have been played in the same location for decades. The others are one offs, not home and homes either, and here is the biggie, none of those teams are also playing another "home" game away from campus.

[hogsanity]

The A&M series was a much better idea when it was a non conference game.  Derailing the thread though discussing it.  Should focus on the feasibility and reasoning of renovating WMS. 

There is no reasonable thought to spending that type of money to upgrade war memorial stadium if the sole idea is for the hogs to play 1 game a year, at most, there, Now, if they are also going to try to get a UCA game and a ASu game, okay, maybe.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

But it isn't "everyone else."   This year alone:

Stanford vs. Rice:  Sydney, Australia
Colorado State vs. Colorado:  Denver, CO (not a stretch here)
Florida State vs. Alabama:  Atlanta, GA
BYU vs. LSU:  New Orleans, LA (basically a home game for LSU)
Michigan vs. Florida:  Arlington, TX
Louisville vs. Purdue:  Indianapolis, IN
NC State vs. South Carolina:  Charlotte, NC
West Virginia vs. Virginia Tech:  Landover, MD
Tennessee vs. Georgia Tech:  Atlanta, GA
Arkansas vs. Texas A&M:  Arlington, TX
Oklahoma vs. Texas:  Dallas, TX
Georgia vs. Florida:  Jacksonville, FL
Baylor vs. Texas Tech:  Arlington, TX
Maine vs. UMass:  Boston, MA
Boston College vs. UConn:  Boston, MA
Army vs. Navy:  Philadelphia, PA

Yeah Neutrals are the wave of the current and the future.  With having to give up a home game for a neutral it makes the LR game a bit untenable. 

[Atlhogfan1]

There is no reasonable thought to spending that type of money to upgrade war memorial stadium if the sole idea is for the hogs to play 1 game a year, at most, there, Now, if they are also going to try to get a UCA game and a ASu game, okay, maybe.

Well we shouldn't.  But this isn't an argument of reasoning.  It is one of emotion.  So even though it doesn't make sense for a poor state like Arkansas to do when much of it is dying, Arkansas does things that doesn't make sense.  Just kicking around IF we are to consider playing there what needs to be done and how it could be. 

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

There is no reasonable thought to spending that type of money to upgrade war memorial stadium if the sole idea is for the hogs to play 1 game a year, at most, there, Now, if they are also going to try to get a UCA game and a ASu game, okay, maybe.

I don't know why there isn't more of a push to do this.  Why expect U of A to be the sole major supporter.  And if it is such a benefit why aren't other schools clamoring to play there?  Have an annual UCA-ASU game there.  Would most likely sell out and be a better atmosphere than any non-SEC opponent Hogs would play there. 

[hogsanity]

I don't know why there isn't more of a push to do this.  Why expect U of A to be the sole major supporter.  And if it is such a benefit why aren't other schools clamoring to play there?  Have an annual UCA-ASU game there.  Would most likely sell out and be a better atmosphere than any non-SEC opponent Hogs would play there. 

Because no one cares about those teams. There is no prestige in bringing those teams to LR. War Memorial/LR is not going to be on CBS at 2:30 or ESPN at 6pm hosting that game. That game MIGHT be on Wed night during the baseball playoffs when no one is watching.  Yes, it would draw a pretty good live crowd, but it is nothing the LR Chamber of Commerce can crow about. 

[Piggfoot]

The real reason most fans, and I assume they are from NWA, don't want to come to WMS is because they don't want to make the trip to see a pushover game . The same reason people from South Arkansas dislike the weekend lost when they drive to RRS.
WMS is not a bad place to watch a game if your reason for being there is to watch the hogs.
Admittedly parking on the golf course or on the street is risky with the drunks there.

[Atlhogfan1]

I don't know why there isn't more of a push to do this.  Why expect U of A to be the sole major supporter.  And if it is such a benefit why aren't other schools clamoring to play there?  Have an annual UCA-ASU game there.  Would most likely sell out and be a better atmosphere than any non-SEC opponent Hogs would play there.

Why $10 million shouldn't be spent.  This was the UA telling them the minimum it is going to take.  If they truly renovated WMS, the Hogs could get an SEC opponent like Ole Miss or MSU or Vandy to play there. I say make it MSU since this game falls so late in the schedule.  In the other season, just rotate it or bring in a little better quality non conf opponent like SMU or Southern Miss.  An updated WMS should be worthy of more than a SWAC/MEAC opponent.  $10 million won't fix some of the issues mentioned in the article.  Going to have to find a cost effective way to truly renovate. 

[Atlhogfan1]

The real reason most fans, and I assume they are from NWA, don't want to come to WMS is because they don't want to make the trip to see a pushover game . The same reason people from South Arkansas dislike the weekend lost when they drive to RRS.
WMS is not a bad place to watch a game if your reason for being there is to watch the hogs.
Admittedly parking on the golf course or on the street is risky with the drunks there.

Why $10 million shouldn't be spent.  Find a way to truly renovate and up the quality of opponent or admit its over. 

[hogsanity]

Why $10 million shouldn't be spent.  Find a way to truly renovate and up the quality of opponent or admit its over. 

And the only way to up the quality of opponent is to take a quality opponent out of DWRRS. Either have to take the BIg ooc game away from Fay, or take a big sec game like Bama or LSU out of Fay.

That was always what I expected would happen though in LR. For year we heard " We just love our Hogs and want to see them play " yet when it got cut to one game they started crying about the one game needing to be a big time game. If you love the Hogs so much, fill it up for Fla A&M.

[Ex-Trumpet]

And the only way to up the quality of opponent is to take a quality opponent out of DWRRS. Either have to take the BIg ooc game away from Fay, or take a big sec game like Bama or LSU out of Fay.

That was always what I expected would happen though in LR. For year we heard " We just love our Hogs and want to see them play " yet when it got cut to one game they started crying about the one game needing to be a big time game. If you love the Hogs so much, fill it up for Fla A&M.

A crappy Hogs team playing a crappy FAMU won't be attended well in LR or Fayetteville.

LR isn't what it once was, and that's sad.  It used to be a great weekend trip; now it's just a hassle.

[Atlhogfan1]

And the only way to up the quality of opponent is to take a quality opponent out of DWRRS. Either have to take the BIg ooc game away from Fay, or take a big sec game like Bama or LSU out of Fay.

That was always what I expected would happen though in LR. For year we heard " We just love our Hogs and want to see them play " yet when it got cut to one game they started crying about the one game needing to be a big time game. If you love the Hogs so much, fill it up for Fla A&M.

No.  MSU would be a very quality opponent.  OM would be.  Vandy is SEC.  Regional opponents like a Memphis or SMU.  These would all be quality of enough and wouldn't be missed in RRS.  Don't put Bama or LSU or AU there. 

The WMS crowd is a very conditional part of the fan base. 

[Atlhogfan1]

A crappy Hogs team playing a crappy FAMU won't be attended well in LR or Fayetteville.

LR isn't what it once was, and that's sad.  It used to be a great weekend trip; now it's just a hassle.

Well if it is going to continue, they need to revitalize it and make it to where that one game is attractive from a venue standpoint and at least somewhat an opponent standpoint.  Also make the players, coaches and recruits not look at it negatively.  Make it an event again.  Or stop doing it. 

[hogsanity]

No.  MSU would be a very quality opponent.  OM would be.  Vandy is SEC.  Regional opponents like a Memphis or SMU.  These would all be quality of enough and wouldn't be missed in RRS.  Don't put Bama or LSU or AU there. 

The WMS crowd is a very conditional part of the fan base. 

No conference home game should be played off campus, imo.

And any game played in LR should be done with the venue just getting concession and parking, nothing else.

[NaturalStateReb]

Can't imagine the state putting $10M into WMS.  That money's going to have to come from somewhere else.

[_Hamlet_]

It's not you, its us.

[Atlhogfan1]

No conference home game should be played off campus, imo.

And any game played in LR should be done with the venue just getting concession and parking, nothing else.

I have no issue with it especially in a schedule like this season where you have back to back late November games in Fay.  Again if WMS were truly renovated.  Which financially doesn't make sense for Arkansas. 

[hogsanity]

I have no issue with it especially in a schedule like this season where you have back to back late November games in Fay.  Again if WMS were truly renovated.  Which financially doesn't make sense for Arkansas. 

I would be more open to it if the A&M series goes back to being a true home and home. In years when A&M is here, then play a sec game in LR, in years when it is in College Station, play a OOC game in LR.

[ricepig]

Can't imagine the state putting $10M into WMS.  That money's going to have to come from somewhere else.

They just $2m in it last season, since it's under the Dept of Tourism now, they'll find more money for it if they choose to.

[Atlhogfan1]

I would be more open to it if the A&M series goes back to being a true home and home. In years when A&M is here, then play a sec game in LR, in years when it is in College Station, play a OOC game in LR.

That could work.  It's those hunting season games where Fay has trouble drawing unless we are having a good season.

A recent major stadium renovation.  Cost in 2014 was $128 million.  Smaller than WMS but it could be figured out how to scale it so WMS would seat 55K or so.  Keep the West and East stands at least for the first reno.  This is what I'm saying must be done if we are going to keep playing there. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDECU_Stadium

[31to6]

I love games in Little Rock and War Memorial, however I can realistically see the issues with the stadium.  I agree with your assessment of Verizon and Dickey Stephens.  I, too, was surprised that WMS was only looking at a $10 million improvement.  I do believe however with the risk of UA pulling that one game that going into debt for anything much larger than $10 million might be too risky.  I see it as a catch 22.  You do have to do something, but not too much that you can't afford to repay should Arkansas pulls that game. 

Even the ticket revenue doesn't paint the whole picture. Modern sports venues often derive as much revenue, or more, from concessions and private boxes as they do from general seating ticket sales.

Modern MLB/NFL top-end college FB and even MLS stadiums have sit-down restaurants where you can eat a full meal. They have full-service bars, gift shops, etc, etc.  People show up an hour or more before the game and walk around and spend money. All of this requires broad concourses, expanded bathrooms, updated atmosphere that people want to be in, and so on. People standing in line are not spending money. People waiting until the last minute to go inside the stadium are not spending money. People in nice, clean places feel better about spending money on swag and food. People who can't watch the game on TVs as they walk down the concourse are less likely to leave the stands to go spend money. Etc.

The only real answer is to either decide that WMS is going to update to a modern facility that can attract other big money events beside Razorback football or it is not and then it will be increasingly expensive for the UA to keep the tradition of those games in Central Arkansas alive.

[Bigfoot]

I'm all for a LR game or two as long as they aren't pissant teams (Hogs or opponents!). 

Me too.

[Cotton]

Just let UALR have WMS and be done with it forever.

[theFlyingHog]

Give UALR a football team, tear down WMS stadium and build a sweet new 60k seat stadium that's designed to be loud AF(Washington?).

[Atlhogfan1]

There is only so much money in Arkansas. Starting up and maintaining a football team at UALR drains more resources.  I understand why it is suggested to have a more permanent tenant. 

[hawgwash]

WMS to UA:  Your football team needs $10 million in upgrades.