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NBA Draft

Started by hawgmasta, June 22, 2017, 12:38:54 pm

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Hogs49ers

June 23, 2017, 03:15:15 pm #50
Quote from: ErieHog on June 23, 2017, 02:28:05 pm
Fox got the terrible fate of being a King.  That's going to be a huge handicap to his development and future as a pro.  Anywhere else, maybe he becomes the poor man's John Wall.  In Sacro, he's going to be fortunate to survive long enough to get out of town.

I think the Kings are starting to turn things around and will be relevant in about 3-5 years, they have some good young players, but they need to add some veteran leadership to steer the ship kinda like what the T-Wolves just did with adding Jimmy Butler.
SCREW Vandy!

husker71

June 23, 2017, 04:03:51 pm #51
I wonder now what the hell the Bulls were thinking.  Is this really all they could get for a top 15 player with a great contract for some team (19 million for each of the next 2 years)  and all they got was a disappointing PG and a great leaper with ACL problems and give up the 16 th pick and used the 7th pick for a guy who can really shoot for a 7 footer but cannot rebound or defend or protect the rim. 
 

Hogs49ers

June 23, 2017, 04:09:57 pm #52
Quote from: husker71 on June 23, 2017, 04:03:51 pm
I wonder now what the hell the Bulls were thinking.  Is this really all they could get for a top 15 player with a great contract for some team (19 million for each of the next 2 years)  and all they got was a disappointing PG and a great leaper with ACL problems and give up the 16 th pick and used the 7th pick for a guy who can really shoot for a 7 footer but cannot rebound or defend or protect the rim.

Yah I was wondering the same thing, plus they drafted at least 2 PFs so I am wondering if they do not have much confidence in Portis turning into their go to at the PF position?  I know they are losing faith in Mirotic (sp?), but not sure what they are thinking on Portis.
SCREW Vandy!

ErieHog

June 23, 2017, 04:38:09 pm #53
Quote from: Hogs49ers on June 23, 2017, 03:15:15 pm
I think the Kings are starting to turn things around and will be relevant in about 3-5 years, they have some good young players, but they need to add some veteran leadership to steer the ship kinda like what the T-Wolves just did with adding Jimmy Butler.

The Kings are still light years away from being a relevant team.

It isn't just that they traded away their actual franchise cornerstone last year;  they spent two of their four picks last night on point guards,   they essentially own the most convolutedly compromised 1st round pick swap rights in 2019,    Jackson and Giles are not great developmental picks. 

This is a team with about zero remaining established offensively NBA rotational talent, if one thing happens.  They purged Afflalo today, to get his number off of the books; they're going to be in a terrible situation if Gay opts in, as well-- a ball dominant forward that's going to retard the development of their young guards.  So, even in their maximum upside for next year, they're going to stink up the joint.

McLemore is probably on his way out.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

hawgmasta

June 23, 2017, 05:19:00 pm #54
Quote from: husker71 on June 23, 2017, 04:03:51 pm
I wonder now what the hell the Bulls were thinking.  Is this really all they could get for a top 15 player with a great contract for some team (19 million for each of the next 2 years)  and all they got was a disappointing PG and a great leaper with ACL problems and give up the 16 th pick and used the 7th pick for a guy who can really shoot for a 7 footer but cannot rebound or defend or protect the rim.

Man, I don't either. That was ugly and with thibodeau having butler as well I can see the t-wolves sneaking in the playoffs soon.

ShadowHawg

June 23, 2017, 08:55:41 pm #55
Quote from: ErieHog on June 23, 2017, 02:50:44 pm
It certainly hasn't helped;  we've had big time, Top 20 type players who have come to campus, and not done it.   

Kentucky still has a better track record of getting people where they want to go, as does Duke.

So has Kentucky.

It is mind boggling that there really are people who think kids who were projected in mock drafts as highschool players and got drafted highly did so because they played at Kentucky.

Ask the Harrison twins how going to Kentucky worked out for them. They were considered can't miss in highschool.

Archie Goodwin fell in the draft compared to projections while in highschool.

If Cal were consistently making his role players big time draft picks it would say that attending Kentucky had sway.

ErieHog

June 24, 2017, 04:09:03 am #56
Quote from: ShadowHawg on June 23, 2017, 08:55:41 pm
So has Kentucky.

It is mind boggling that there really are people who think kids who were projected in mock drafts as highschool players and got drafted highly did so because they played at Kentucky.

Ask the Harrison twins how going to Kentucky worked out for them. They were considered can't miss in highschool.

Archie Goodwin fell in the draft compared to projections while in highschool.

If Cal were consistently making his role players big time draft picks it would say that attending Kentucky had sway.

Then you don't understand what sway is;  sway is keeping them where they belong, and picking a few more up along the way--  as well as establishing the secondary relationships with figures like World Wide Wes and the Nike folks, and the NBA scouting machine....which nobody anywhere does as well as Cal.

Yeah, he's a scum bag.  He's also *easily* the best shot to get you where you want to go.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

The_Iceman

June 24, 2017, 07:04:31 am #57
Quote from: husker71 on June 23, 2017, 04:03:51 pm
I wonder now what the hell the Bulls were thinking.  Is this really all they could get for a top 15 player with a great contract for some team (19 million for each of the next 2 years)  and all they got was a disappointing PG and a great leaper with ACL problems and give up the 16 th pick and used the 7th pick for a guy who can really shoot for a 7 footer but cannot rebound or defend or protect the rim.

Zach Lavine averaged 19ppg before injury. If he recovers he could be a 20+ppg scorer at SG for them. He has improved every season on his career. People who act like he is only a slam dunk champ are uninformed.

Kris Dunn was blocked behind Ricky Rubio his rookie season. I think it is way to early to call him disappointing. He was a McDonald's All American and was a stud in college. There's a reason he was a top 5 pick. He will break out with playing time.

The 7'0" from Arizona is a perfect NBA big man. He can pick and roll with and guard and be a deadly shooter. Shot over 40% from 3-pt range in college. He is a guy that can easily drop 10ppg in today's NBA. Good compliment to Lopez and will work well with Portis.

The Bulls made a good rebuilding move. No other team was offering a day one 20ppg scorer (if his ACL heals properly), a former top 5 pick who could be their starting PG, and a top 10 pick.


https://youtu.be/FQb-LiLT6rY


https://youtu.be/0xVGy3T9tuE

bigred223

June 24, 2017, 07:41:27 am #58
Quote from: ErieHog on June 23, 2017, 02:34:17 am
No Hog has been drafted that high in 15 years.    These are Hog-colored glasses.

Stop. It's about recruiting.

TNhawgfan

June 24, 2017, 07:52:40 am #59
I know four SEC players were drafted. How many underclassmen weren't drafted who signed with agents?
I'd rather be dead than be a Vol

husker71

June 24, 2017, 11:01:45 am #60
14 of the 43 were drafted I think I read somewhere.    so the majority of the 29 left out will play somewhere and make a decent to very good living.  Many say if you are not drafted in the 1st round it is better to just not be drafted.

Breems

June 24, 2017, 11:12:06 am #61
Quote from: ErieHog on June 22, 2017, 07:55:41 pm
They're in the West.  Not going to happen soon.  And really, until they unload Rubio, they have no real aspirations to winning big.

Do they need to get rid of Rubio and sign Flynn back on?
Proud member of the "Left Before Halftime" football club.

Quote from: Breems on January 27, 2011, 08:42:29 pm<br />SCREW VANDERBILT<br />

Hawg414

June 24, 2017, 01:49:56 pm #62
Quote from: ErieHog on June 24, 2017, 04:09:03 am
Then you don't understand what sway is;  sway is keeping them where they belong, and picking a few more up along the way--  as well as establishing the secondary relationships with figures like World Wide Wes and the Nike folks, and the NBA scouting machine....which nobody anywhere does as well as Cal.

Yeah, he's a scum bag.  He's also *easily* the best shot to get you where you want to go.

I know you think very highly of your opinion, but this is just nonsense.
The #1 pick didnt need Cal.  Nor did the #2, 3 or 4 picks.  or 6, 7 8, 9 and 10.
Granted, 5 and 11 had Cal.  Arguable whether they needed him or not, since they were both top rated high schoolers just one year ago. 
 

ErieHog

June 24, 2017, 02:21:03 pm #63
Quote from: The_Iceman on June 24, 2017, 07:04:31 am
Zach Lavine averaged 19ppg before injury. If he recovers he could be a 20+ppg scorer at SG for them. He has improved every season on his career. People who act like he is only a slam dunk champ are uninformed.

Kris Dunn was blocked behind Ricky Rubio his rookie season. I think it is way to early to call him disappointing. He was a McDonald's All American and was a stud in college. There's a reason he was a top 5 pick. He will break out with playing time.

The 7'0" from Arizona is a perfect NBA big man. He can pick and roll with and guard and be a deadly shooter. Shot over 40% from 3-pt range in college. He is a guy that can easily drop 10ppg in today's NBA. Good compliment to Lopez and will work well with Portis.

The Bulls made a good rebuilding move. No other team was offering a day one 20ppg scorer (if his ACL heals properly), a former top 5 pick who could be their starting PG, and a top 10 pick.


https://youtu.be/FQb-LiLT6rY


https://youtu.be/0xVGy3T9tuE


As a full fledged Wolves fan,  the only player I will miss is Lavine.

Dunn wasn't lodged behind Rubio-- he was simply so atrocious offensively that it boggled the mind-- Rubio is the worst shooting guard in the *history of the NBA*, and Wolves fans actually missed him being on the court when Dunn played.   

This isn't a good deal for Chicago, unless the Finn turns out to be a big time player.  I love Lavine, and the kid works incredibly hard to be more than anyone ever thought he would be, but he's still coming off a knee injury and will be playing with a bad team.    He may get to 25 a game, eventually, but that won't mean he's a truly valuable asset to rebuilding.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

ErieHog

June 24, 2017, 02:21:46 pm #64
Quote from: Breems on June 24, 2017, 11:12:06 am
Do they need to get rid of Rubio and sign Flynn back on?

Nah.  Rubio will play okay defense, at least.  Offensively, you can cut off one leg and still be a Rubio comp.

Worst shooter in the history of the NBA.  Ever.    Simply mind boggling that they keep playing him.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

The_Iceman

June 24, 2017, 07:36:04 pm #65
Quote from: ErieHog on June 24, 2017, 02:21:03 pm
As a full fledged Wolves fan,  the only player I will miss is Lavine.

Dunn wasn't lodged behind Rubio-- he was simply so atrocious offensively that it boggled the mind-- Rubio is the worst shooting guard in the *history of the NBA*, and Wolves fans actually missed him being on the court when Dunn played.   

This isn't a good deal for Chicago, unless the Finn turns out to be a big time player.  I love Lavine, and the kid works incredibly hard to be more than anyone ever thought he would be, but he's still coming off a knee injury and will be playing with a bad team.    He may get to 25 a game, eventually, but that won't mean he's a truly valuable asset to rebuilding.

It was his rookie season. Plenty of rookies have improved after tough first years. He is 6'4" and has plenty of talent to develop into a starting PG.

ShadowHawg

June 25, 2017, 12:34:49 am #66
Quote from: ErieHog on June 24, 2017, 04:09:03 am
Then you don't understand what sway is;  sway is keeping them where they belong, and picking a few more up along the way--  as well as establishing the secondary relationships with figures like World Wide Wes and the Nike folks, and the NBA scouting machine....which nobody anywhere does as well as Cal.

Yeah, he's a scum bag.  He's also *easily* the best shot to get you where you want to go.

I like how you tried to ignore the Kentucky failures and never mention how when Kanter wasn't even allowed to practice with the team at Kentucky he was still drafted higher than any of Cal's eligible players.

Lol

hawgmasta

June 25, 2017, 10:31:39 am #67
The bulls MAY not get fleeced but there's a lot of that nasty word in the sports world, potential; which Butler was not. He's pretty much a definitive top 10-15 rated player in the league in his prime.

I do understand the bulls seem to be blowing it up now though, and can anyone argue that blowing it up and a short tanking can help rebuild a team the fastest? Especially in an attractive city like Chicago for free agents.

ErieHog

June 25, 2017, 04:06:25 pm #68
Quote from: The_Iceman on June 24, 2017, 07:36:04 pm
It was his rookie season. Plenty of rookies have improved after tough first years. He is 6'4" and has plenty of talent to develop into a starting PG.

He was a 23 year old rookie.  Age matters more than experience, and he didn't even flash offensively--  he's about a half year away from getting the Johnny Flynn giant red warning lights of flush him from the league.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

ErieHog

June 25, 2017, 04:07:10 pm #69
Quote from: ShadowHawg on June 25, 2017, 12:34:49 am
I like how you tried to ignore the Kentucky failures and never mention how when Kanter wasn't even allowed to practice with the team at Kentucky he was still drafted higher than any of Cal's eligible players.

Lol

Remind me again, where's Enos Kanter?  Didn't he end up going 3rd?

You're making my point, not refuting it.  He still had the rest of the Kentucky machine of access behind him, and he's made bank out of it.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
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