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Author Topic: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.  (Read 2388 times)

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luke hawg

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Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« on: May 14, 2017, 11:28:46 am »

A position group that Bielema correctly places an increased emphasis on has not been good enough for his style play to this point. I was sold on the ball control offense limiting defiencies on defense at Arkansas. A place where defensive depth will always be a struggle. I like the transition to a more aggressive defense which should result in less time on the field for the defense. The problem is to this point our offensive line has not been capable of closing out games on the ground. Bilelema has consistently acquired early leads in games only to end up in close games once he tries to lean more heavily on the ground game. He is going to continually revert back to this, because it's his only chance at winning big. The quality of offensive linemen will determine the success or failure of Bielema. His style was producing 1st and 2nd round picks at Wisconsin. At this point we've had one Bielema recruited linemen drafted in the later rounds. This is the single factor that is having the largest affect on our quality of play.
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JIHawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2017, 11:33:48 am »

Great subject line.  This will help recruiting.
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LZH

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2017, 11:39:34 am »

Great subject line.  This will help recruiting.

If so, that would be the coach's fault, not the OP.
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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2017, 11:45:17 am »

The success of recruiting will be determined by the potential development of Wallace, Froholdt, Ragnow, Gipson, Rogers, Malone, Raulerson, and Ramirez into NFL prospects. We are getting elite tight ends because we are putting them in the league.
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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2017, 11:50:06 am »

Anyone that has read my posts would probably catergorize me as a Bielema nut hugger but I'm not going to deny the obvious. I personally believe that this is the first season he can be held 100 percent responsible for the success or failure of this group. At this point he needs to start getting results regardless of excuses justified or not.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2017, 11:51:34 am »

Give a definition of "development of offensive lineman".  Explain your parameters of how long it takes and what are the expectations within that timeframe and then the discussion can begin. 
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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2017, 12:03:26 pm »

Give a definition of "development of offensive lineman".  Explain your parameters of how long it takes and what are the expectations within that timeframe and then the discussion can begin.

I would defer to the individuals being paid the most to project the value of these men in the NFL. I think the ability to turn players into drafted professionals is the best indicator since none of us are paid experts. I think years 5 and 6 should result in a large bump in quality of play if it is going to occur. I acknowledge that our first class was filled at the last minute with little to develop from earlier classes. The second offensive line is still on campus minus 1 which is Bielema's lone pick in Tretola. I'm simply stating these next two draft classes need to produce.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 12:14:13 pm by luke hawg »
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2017, 12:09:21 pm »

A position group that Bielema correctly places an increased emphasis on has not been good enough for his style play to this point. I was sold on the ball control offense limiting defiencies on defense at Arkansas. A place where defensive depth will always be a struggle. I like the transition to a more aggressive defense which should result in less time on the field for the defense. The problem is to this point our offensive line has not been capable of closing out games on the ground. Bilelema has consistently acquired early leads in games only to end up in close games once he tries to lean more heavily on the ground game. He is going to continually revert back to this, because it's his only chance at winning big. The quality of offensive linemen will determine the success or failure of Bielema. His style was producing 1st and 2nd round picks at Wisconsin. At this point we've had one Bielema recruited linemen drafted in the later rounds. This is the single factor that is having the largest affect on our quality of play.

How many O-Linemen did Bielema have drafted in his first 4 years as the HC at Wisconsin? Answer: 2

How many O-Linemen did Bielema have drafted in his last 3 years as the HC at Wisconsin? Answer: 6

How many O-Linemen has Bielema had drafted in his first 4 years as the HC at Arkansas? Answer: 2

I'd say this OP is a knee-jerk reaction to not knowing the facts. I would say however that he is right that the development of quality O-Linemen that merit being drafted into the NFL will contribute greatly to our success in the future.

But this story isn't written yet.
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Inhogswetrust

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2017, 12:17:41 pm »

How many O-Linemen did Bielema have drafted in his first 4 years as the HC at Wisconsin? Answer: 2

How many O-Linemen did Bielema have drafted in his last 3 years as the HC at Wisconsin? Answer: 6

How many O-Linemen has Bielema had drafted in his first 4 years as the HC at Arkansas? Answer: 2

I'd say this OP is a knee-jerk reaction to not knowing the facts. I would say however that he is right that the development of quality O-Linemen that merit being drafted into the NFL will contribute greatly to our success in the future.

But this story isn't written yet.

Yep. Nothing worse than being premature when talking about ball control................. ;)
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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2017, 12:20:29 pm »

How many O-Linemen did Bielema have drafted in his first 4 years as the HC at Wisconsin? Answer: 2

How many O-Linemen did Bielema have drafted in his last 3 years as the HC at Wisconsin? Answer: 6

How many O-Linemen has Bielema had drafted in his first 4 years as the HC at Arkansas? Answer: 2

I'd say this OP is a knee-jerk reaction to not knowing the facts. I would say however that he is right that the development of quality O-Linemen that merit being drafted into the NFL will contribute greatly to our success in the future.

But this story isn't written yet.

I agree 100 percent which is the reason for using "at this point" twice in the original post. I am very aware of the facts and the potential of our current prospects. I'm just stating the importance of results in this area to Bielema's success at Arkansas given his preferred style of play.
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jkstock04

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2017, 12:20:35 pm »

A position group that Bielema correctly places an increased emphasis on has not been good enough for his style play to this point. I was sold on the ball control offense limiting defiencies on defense at Arkansas. A place where defensive depth will always be a struggle. I like the transition to a more aggressive defense which should result in less time on the field for the defense. The problem is to this point our offensive line has not been capable of closing out games on the ground. Bilelema has consistently acquired early leads in games only to end up in close games once he tries to lean more heavily on the ground game. He is going to continually revert back to this, because it's his only chance at winning big. The quality of offensive linemen will determine the success or failure of Bielema. His style was producing 1st and 2nd round picks at Wisconsin. At this point we've had one Bielema recruited linemen drafted in the later rounds. This is the single factor that is having the largest affect on our quality of play.
Good post. Overall the O-line play under Bielema has been very disappointing...especially if you consider his hype or supposed M.O. of churning out NFL type O-lines.

Last year was a huge disappointment. His vision of what he wants to do is crystal clear. Can he do it? I agree for him to be "successful" here he is going to have to have dominant O-lines.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2017, 12:34:12 pm »

I agree 100 percent which is the reason for using "at this point" twice in the original post. I am very aware of the facts and the potential of our current prospects. I'm just stating the importance of results in this area to Bielema's success at Arkansas given his preferred style of play.

Sure sounded like you were passing judgement on what has been achieved so far in the absence of recognizing the amount of time that is required to build improved and talented depth. And as far as 1st and 2nd Round Draft Choices from the O-Line goes, I figured that since you were making this post, that you understood that 3 of his 4, 1st round draft picks came in the last 3 years of his 7 years at Wisconsin along with his only 2nd Rd pick, one of his two 3rd Rd picks and his only 7th Rd pick. It takes time for both recruiting and development.

If what he can accomplish in the next 2-3 years at Arkansas in terms of development of O-Linemen mirrors that which he was able to do in 7 years at Wisconsin, I suspect we will be in for a treat. I hope it turns out that way.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 12:56:40 pm by MuskogeeHogFan »
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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 01:14:38 pm »

Sure sounded like you were passing judgement on what has been achieved so far in the absence of recognizing the amount of time that is required to build improved and talented depth. And as far as 1st and 2nd Round Draft Choices from the O-Line goes, I figured that since you were making this post, that you understood that 3 of his 1st round draft picks came in the last 3 years of his 7 years at Wisconsin along with his only 2nd Rd pick, one of his two 3rd Rd picks and his only 7th Rd pick. It takes time for both recruiting and development.

I have been supporting Bielema nonstop his entire time here. In the post before yours I further clarified my position. I am completely aware of Bielema's record at wisconisn and here. I also acknowledge that a large part of the fanbase has become restless. I agree to this point that most of peoples greivences are premature. But I'm not going to deny that in a pivotal year for development at that position, there is a lot of uncertainty. After this season and next the excuses will be gone, and this group will determine our success or failure. Time is definitely not up but it's upon us and we need to prove the skeptics that are digging through the pudding wrong because most of them are looking for proof. Unfortunately in today's society proof expires rather quickly and Brets success at Wisconsin is no longer good. I'm not saying that is right but it's the reality of our current sports culture.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 01:21:46 pm »

I have been supporting Bielema nonstop his entire time here. In the post before yours I further clarified my position. I am completely aware of Bielema's record at wisconisn and here. I also acknowledge that a large part of the fanbase has become restless. I agree to this point that most of peoples greivences are premature. But I'm not going to deny that in a pivotal year for development at that position, there is a lot of uncertainty. After this season and next the excuses will be gone, and this group will determine our success or failure. Time is definitely not up but it's upon us and we need to prove the skeptics that are digging through the pudding wrong.

The O-Line is certainly important and needs to continue to develop but a lot of folks (not meaning you) overlook the fact that last year the O-Line, while having its own problems, was blamed too many times when RB's ran to the wrong holes/creases and missed assignments in pass-pro, along with our TE's. The O-Line had it's issues certainly, but there were times that we had failures in other areas that ended up being incorrectly attributed to the O-Line.

It is a team game. I am hoping that we can get it put together better this season with a defense that provides greater support than last year.
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gchamblee

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 01:21:59 pm »

Yep. Nothing worse than being premature when talking about ball control................. ;)

i lol'd
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onebadrubi

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2017, 01:30:22 pm »

I would defer to the individuals being paid the most to project the value of these men in the NFL. I think the ability to turn players into drafted professionals is the best indicator since none of us are paid experts. I think years 5 and 6 should result in a large bump in quality of play if it is going to occur. I acknowledge that our first class was filled at the last minute with little to develop from earlier classes. The second offensive line is still on campus minus 1 which is Bielema's lone pick in Tretola. I'm simply stating these next two draft classes need to produce.

Well, by your determination the NFL guys aren't doing any good either.  Kirkland was a miss by EVERY team in the draft.  He's now playing and was almost immediately after signing undrafted with the raiders
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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2017, 01:47:44 pm »

The O-Line is certainly important and needs to continue to develop but a lot of folks (not meaning you) overlook the fact that last year the O-Line, while having its own problems, was blamed too many times when RB's ran to the wrong holes/creases and missed assignments in pass-pro, along with our TE's. The O-Line had it's issues certainly, but there were times that we had failures in other areas that ended up being incorrectly attributed to the O-Line.

It is a team game. I am hoping that we can get it put together better this season with a defense that provides greater support than last year.
It's a team game and every position contributes but Brets system is predicated on dominance up front especially in short yardage situations and first down. It's the one area that has been disappointing to me. Our YPC average needs to improve. Alex Collins ability to make guys miss in the backfield was huge in 2015. He made a lot of things happen in bad situations. Bret has done a lot of great things but we need to start smashing the non conference and non elite SEC schools. We were inexperienced at running back last season but that can't be a strong indicator of success. Those guys are the most likely injured and quickest to bolt for a payday.

If one doesn't want to luck at NFL players developed, I'd say yards per attempt rushing is the most important.

Wisconsin 2006 3.9 avg ranked 60
                 2007 4.4                    40
                 2008 4.8                    23
                 2009 4.6                    35
                 2010 5.5                      7
                 2011 5.4                      8
                 2012 5.2                    18
                 2013 6.6                      2
                 2014 6.9                      2

Arkansas 2013 5.3                      17
                2014 5.1                       29
                2015 5.0.                      27
                2016 4.1.                      90

Wisconsin 2006-2009 avg ypa 4.425 avg rank 39.5
Arkansas 2013-2016 avg ypa 4.875 avg rank 40.75

« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 03:03:38 pm by luke hawg »
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sickboy

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2017, 02:48:09 pm »

Great subject line.  This will help recruiting.

Bielema has been at Arkansas four seasons and sent five linemen to the NFL. Ragnow will be drafted next year. Ask NFL scouts what they think of Bielema's ability to develop lineman.

In fact, look up how many lineman Bielema has in the NFL right now total.

Defense has been our Achilles heel. Not offensive line.
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HawgTide

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2017, 03:18:31 pm »

Bielema has been at Arkansas four seasons and sent five linemen to the NFL. Ragnow will be drafted next year. Ask NFL scouts what they think of Bielema's ability to develop lineman.

In fact, look up how many lineman Bielema has in the NFL right now total.

Defense has been our Achilles heel. Not offensive line.



This^^^

D has been the problem
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Al Boarland

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2017, 03:28:18 pm »

Well, he lost a phenomenal recruiter and coach in Pittman. He is going against much better recruiters in the SEC. No to mention all the programs with richer tradition elite players pass on the way to the UofA. Add all that to the guys he does get having to go against the best D-lines in the country and you have your answer.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2017, 03:34:37 pm »

Bielema has been at Arkansas four seasons and sent five linemen to the NFL. Ragnow will be drafted next year. Ask NFL scouts what they think of Bielema's ability to develop lineman.

In fact, look up how many lineman Bielema has in the NFL right now total.

Defense has been our Achilles heel. Not offensive line.

CBB doesn't develop anything. He hires coaches to do that.
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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2017, 03:41:17 pm »



This^^^

D has been the problem

I just want to cover the defense up as much as possible at this point we've been bad to awful on defense for so long minus 2014.
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LZH

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2017, 03:42:09 pm »

CBB doesn't develop anything. He hires coaches to do that.

So are you saying it wasn't Nutt's fault his teams never had a true difference-maker pro style QB?....that it was his assistants who didn't develop QB's?
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Wildhog

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2017, 04:04:33 pm »

Bielema has been at Arkansas four seasons and sent five linemen to the NFL. Ragnow will be drafted next year. Ask NFL scouts what they think of Bielema's ability to develop lineman.

In fact, look up how many lineman Bielema has in the NFL right now total.

Defense has been our Achilles heel. Not offensive line.

Tretola, Kirkland, do we credit CBB with Swanson?  Who am I missing?

EDIT: Cameron Jefferson is one.  Google is my friend.

Not that I disagree with you about defense.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2017, 05:12:34 pm by Wildhog »
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Pigsknuckles

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2017, 05:38:51 pm »

But I thought we had bigger linemen than any team in the NFL.
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PorkRinds

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2017, 05:43:40 pm »

Tretola, Kirkland, do we credit CBB with Swanson?  Who am I missing?

EDIT: Cameron Jefferson is one.  Google is my friend.

Not that I disagree with you about defense.

I guess now we can count Skipper.
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Wildhog

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2017, 06:34:38 pm »

I guess now we can count Skipper.

Gotta make the team first.
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daprospecta

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2017, 06:35:07 pm »

The success of recruiting will be determined by the potential development of Wallace, Froholdt, Ragnow, Gipson, Rogers, Malone, Raulerson, and Ramirez into NFL prospects. We are getting elite tight ends because we are putting them in the league.
So much this.  In the last decade, we have had four tight ends get drafted.  That tells a recruit that if I go to Arkansas as a tight end and I get major snaps, I'll probably get drafted.  From Sprinkle to Henry to Gragg and DJ, we are tight end U and same goes for RB's. DE's are starting to get that same niche here as well.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2017, 06:40:26 pm »

If one doesn't want to luck at NFL players developed, I'd say yards per attempt rushing is the most important.

All that will do is make the criteria a little more vague because if you consider that, then you have to consider things like the quality of the defenses and players that manned those defenses that they faced in achieving those numbers.
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Mike_e

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2017, 06:48:31 pm »

Give a definition of "development of offensive lineman".  Explain your parameters of how long it takes and what are the expectations within that timeframe and then the discussion can begin.

I never played on the O line but from what I've seen those guys are a lot like QBs.  3 years in they're good and four years in they're as good as they're going to be.  5th year seniors are great in that you get two really good years out of them.
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Hoggish1

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2017, 07:20:03 pm »

Do you blame the former O-line traitor?
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2017, 09:02:33 pm »

I think that Mike_e hit the nail on the head.  If you look at the success that Coach Bielema had at Wisconsin, it wasn't something he started, it was something he maintained.  The base was there.  There hasn't been a base developed here.  It's in the works, but not complete.  Look at each class that's signed since he arrived in December on 2012.

2013 - He scrambled to add Olinemen to the class and picked up Kirkland, Skipper, Koehler, and McClure.  Koehler was injured, McClure was a JC transfer they hoped could contributed and Kirkland and Skipper were forced into action as true freshman.
2014 - They signed Wallace, Ragnow, Tretola (JC), Allen, & Pruitt. Allen and Pruitt never made it, Ragnow and Tretola played immediately, and only Wallace was able to be red shirted.
2015 - They signed Rogers, Merrick, Jackson, and Froholdt (as a DT who saw action).  Merrick and Jackson red shirted.  Froholdt and Rogers played.
2016 - Heinrich, Ramirez (JC) and Malone (JC). Heinrich and Malone red shirted, Ramirez played. 
2017 - Wagner, Adcock, Clenin, and Clary come in.  All should red shirt.

If you look at each class, you will see that the first two and possibly three years, there has been a desperate effort made to fill holes immediately, rather than sign, red shirt, and develop.  In a perfect work, and I know it isn't and never will be, but in that world of a sign, red shirt and develop with players staying in the program 5 years, this falls team would look much different.  In 2017, Skipper and Kirkland would be 5th year seniors. Raulerson a grad transfer senior.  Ragnow and Wallace red shirt juniors.  Ramirez a transfer junior.  Froholdt, Merrick, Rogers, and Jackson, and Malone red shirt Sophomores. Heinrich and red shirt freshman.  Wagner, Adcock, Clenin, and Clary, red shirting freshman. 

All of that to say that the offensive line is something that needs to be developed and grown over time.  When Coach Bielema arrived in December of 2012, the players didn't fit his scheme.  They recruited hard and landed talent, but that talent was young and didn't have time to do anything but learn on the fly.  Until the program can make red shirting offensive lineman the norm, the line is not developed.  If you look back at the dominant offensive lines from Wisconsin, they were full of RS seniors and RS juniors.  Occasionally a RS sophomore.  You never saw RS freshman or true freshman.  That is the model they are striving for.  If you look at the last two years, they are getting closer to that.  2017's first team line is beginning to look like a Bielema line. Jackson (RS Soph, so still young), Froholdt (Jr, still learning) Ragnow (5th year senior,  All American and captain), Gibson (RS Jr, molded into a starter), and Wallace (RS Jr, forced into action last year and now where he should be on the schedule). 

So the offensive linemen that will be back in 2018 are:
Wallace, Froholdt, Merrick, Gibson, Rogers, Jackson, Hall, Sone, Hannah, Hays, Heinrich, Malone, Wagner, Adcock, Clenin, Clary.

There is beginning to be a level of depth that we haven't yet seen in the Bielema era.  It has taken a while, but the "lineman factory" that we hoped for when Coach Bielema arrived is finally coming together.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 05:23:53 am by FANONTHEHILL »
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jgphillips3

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2017, 09:05:12 pm »

Ragnow could have been a first round pick last year, 2nd round at the latest.  Had Kirkland had a chance to stay at guard and had he not bailed early, he had first two round potential.  But yes, line play has been less than stellar overall.  I think we will see better play this year and from here on out.
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lumphog

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2017, 09:43:05 pm »

I think that Mike_e hit the nail on the head.  If you look at the success that Coach Bielema had at Wisconsin, it wasn't something he started, it was something he maintained.  The base was there.  There hasn't been a base developed here.  It's in the works, but not complete.  Look at each class that's signed since he arrived in December on 2012.

2013 - He scrambled to add Olinemen to the class and picked up Kirkland, Skipper, Koehler, and McClure.  Koehler was injured, McClure was a JC transfer they hoped could contributed and Kirkland and Skipper were forced into action as true freshman.
2014 - They signed Wallace, Ragnow, Tretola (JC), Allen, & Pruitt. Allen and Pruitt never made it, Ragnow and Tretola played immediately, and only Wallace was able to be red shirted.
2015 - They signed Rogers, Merrick, Jackson, and Froholdt (as a DT who saw action).  Merrick and Jackson red shirted.  Froholdt and Rogers played.
2016 - Heinrich, Ramirez (JC) and Malone (JC). Heinrich and Malone red shirted, Ramirez played. 
2017 - Wagner, Adcock, Clenin, and Clary come in.  All should red shirt.

If you look at each class, you will see that the first two and possibly three years, there has been a desperate effort made to fill holes immediately, rather than sign, red shirt, and develop.  In a perfect work, and I know it isn't and never will be, but in that world of a sign, red shirt and develop with players staying in the program 5 years, this falls team would look much different.  In 2017, Skipper and Kirkland would be 5th year seniors. Raulerson a grad transfer senior.  Ragnow and Wallace red shirt juniors.  Ramirez a transfer junior.  Froholdt, Merrick, Rogers, and Jackson, and Malone red shirt Sophomores. Heinrich and red shirt freshman.  Wagner, Adcock, Clenin, and Clary, red shirting freshman. 

All of that to say that the offensive line is something that needs to be developed and grown over time.  When Coach Bielema arrived in December of 2012, the players didn't fit his scheme.  They recruited hard and landed talent, but that talent was young and didn't have time to do anything but learn on the fly.  Until the program can make red shirting offensive lineman the norm, the line is not developed.  If you look back at the dominate offensive lines from Wisconsin, they were full of RS seniors and RS juniors.  Occasionally a RS sophomore.  You never saw RS freshman or true freshman.  That is the model they are striving for.  If you look at the last two years, they are getting closer to that.  2017's first team line is beginning to look like a Bielema line. Jackson (RS Soph, so still young), Froholdt (Jr, still learning) Ragnow (5th year senior,  All American and captain), Gibson (RS Jr, molded into a starter), and Wallace (RS Jr, forced into action last year and now where he should be on the schedule). 

So the offensive linemen that will be back in 2018 are:
Wallace, Froholdt, Merrick, Gibson, Rogers, Jackson, Hall, Sone, Hannah, Hays, Heinrich, Malone, Wagner, Adcock, Clenin, Clary.

There is beginning to be a level of depth that we haven't yet seen in the Bielema era.  It has taken a while, but the "lineman factory" that we hoped for when Coach Bielema arrived is finally coming together.
LOVE...your input, you get it & WHEN you look at it that way.....CBB has done an outstanding job......GIVE THE MAN TIME!!!! He will get us there
 NO DOUBT!!!!!!!..........God Bless FANONTHEHILL & Thanks
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zebradynasty

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2017, 09:56:41 pm »

Don't believe OL is a Major problem. As a unit so far the OL's have been one of the more consistent group. We need to keep hammering way at what were are doing there just continue to fight for more talent. There have been times when OL hasn't got the yards we needed running the ball but not enough to put the entire OL system on blast! Our inability to hold leads is a defensive problem.
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The Kig

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2017, 10:30:02 pm »

This may be one of the dumber threads I have seen started in a while.  Our Offense has been ridiculously productive over the past few years.  Our Defense has been ridiculously awful.  I made the mistake last summer of assuming that the 2016 Defense couldn't possibly be worse than 2015....boy was I wrong.   I get that last year had some odd tinkering with the OL and some guys with no much experience.   But the cause of our Downfall?  Our OL didn't give up an NCAA worst rushing yards per play.  Our OL didn't field a historically bad Defense... The Defense did.  Any downfall would be because our Defense let more men in their backfield than a dock whore at a Navy yard on leave. 

CBB did what he should have done as a HC and made changes.  Completely agree that this is the year that his system should be clicking and it could determine his longevity here. He's a smart enough guy to realize that and is taking a major gamble scrapping an entire Defensive scheme and starting over.
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greenie

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2017, 10:55:42 pm »

Ok, we had a rough year last year at OL...it seems...but I can't go along with the notion that we've had bad OL since CBB has been here.  Maybe I'm just so enamored with Bielema's program management skills that I don't pay attention.  Regardless, reading what FOTH and Muskogee had to say (from all indications, two very level-headed guys), OL development is not high on my list of worries.  We have at least 4 or 5 OL that played for CBB at Arkansas that are on NFL rosters; somebody like factchecker or benny could easily tell us if that's significant or not compared to programs similar to ours, but it seems pretty good.  I do hope our OL play improves this year, and I think sensible people were generally happy with the OL recruits we landed in February. 

I would love to know what the players think of Kurt Anderson, but I don't think its fair to ask someone like FOTH to reveal that type of info in this forum.  From my vantage point, he seems like a solid coach.  We'll know better once we get more of a chance to see him recruit and develop players.

As for the team in general, that spring game, or lack thereof, didn't leave me with much to feed my mediocre evaluation skills...so I wait...August 31 can't get here soon enough.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2017, 11:42:31 pm »

Ok, we had a rough year last year at OL...it seems...but I can't go along with the notion that we've had bad OL since CBB has been here.  Maybe I'm just so enamored with Bielema's program management skills that I don't pay attention.  Regardless, reading what FOTH and Muskogee had to say (from all indications, two very level-headed guys), OL development is not high on my list of worries.  We have at least 4 or 5 OL that played for CBB at Arkansas that are on NFL rosters; somebody like factchecker or benny could easily tell us if that's significant or not compared to programs similar to ours, but it seems pretty good.  I do hope our OL play improves this year, and I think sensible people were generally happy with the OL recruits we landed in February. 

I would love to know what the players think of Kurt Anderson, but I don't think its fair to ask someone like FOTH to reveal that type of info in this forum.  From my vantage point, he seems like a solid coach.  We'll know better once we get more of a chance to see him recruit and develop players.

As for the team in general, that spring game, or lack thereof, didn't leave me with much to feed my mediocre evaluation skills...so I wait...August 31 can't get here soon enough.

If my son or the other guys on the line that I have contact with had a low opinion of Anderson, I wouldn't lie to everyone here and say the he was fine.  I just wouldn't reply. This is the honest truth from someone who's son plays for him.  He is excellent. 

Is he loud? Yes.  Is he demanding? Yes. Does he ride the players hard? Absolutely yes! But the most important thing is he fact he makes them better. He relates to the players and they relate to him.  They are on the same page.  The man knows offensive line.  Technically, he focuses on the smallest of details.  Hand position, feet width, first step length and angle.  It's all pounded into them over and over.  A great example is about first step. My son tells me guys are corrected, himself included, about their first step being too long by as little as a half inch during film study.  They focus on it in drills and by the next time that they scrimmage live a half inch shorter step is used and the speed, amount of leverage strength, and timing of the block is improved.  Anderson sees everything and coaches it up as well as anyone, anywhere could.  You can tell he has coached an NFL team that led the league in rushing. 

I'll end this little sermon by saying that my son came to Arkansas and Sam Pittman was his Oline coach.  We loved Coach Pittman.  When he left for Georgia it hurt.  Everyone was like family in that Oline group.  There was a transitional period as the guys got to know Coach Anderson. One year in, I will say that my son has learned more about the techniques, the mentality, and the physicality required to be a successful offensive lineman.  That would not be the case if it weren't for Coach Anderson. So in reply to greenie, he's more than solid and Arkansas is lucky to have him.
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azhog10

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2017, 04:16:49 am »

Give a definition of "development of offensive lineman".  Explain your parameters of how long it takes and what are the expectations within that timeframe and then the discussion can begin.
A good starting point would be 35, 14, 14, and 8. That's the amount of sacks given up the last four years. As you can see the trend is not good, I would say development of OLine that can protect the quarterbacks is lacking.
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azhog10

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2017, 04:23:41 am »

This may be one of the dumber threads I have seen started in a while.  Our Offense has been ridiculously productive over the past few years.  Our Defense has been ridiculously awful.  I made the mistake last summer of assuming that the 2016 Defense couldn't possibly be worse than 2015....boy was I wrong.   I get that last year had some odd tinkering with the OL and some guys with no much experience.   But the cause of our Downfall?  Our OL didn't give up an NCAA worst rushing yards per play.  Our OL didn't field a historically bad Defense... The Defense did.  Any downfall would be because our Defense let more men in their backfield than a dock whore at a Navy yard on leave. 

CBB did what he should have done as a HC and made changes.  Completely agree that this is the year that his system should be clicking and it could determine his longevity here. He's a smart enough guy to realize that and is taking a major gamble scrapping an entire Defensive scheme and starting over.
35 sacks given up this year is not a good thing. While our offense is doing fine, our Line has struggled keeping the QB off the ground and has struggled at the goal line.
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The Kig

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2017, 08:13:03 am »

35 sacks given up this year is not a good thing. While our offense is doing fine, our Line has struggled keeping the QB off the ground and has struggled at the goal line.


Not stating at all that the OL was where it needed to be.  However, when I see something like "downfall", my expectation is that it is THE reason we collapsed. 

Sure, it's reasonable for people to wonder why we did have the plug and play development.  Having a new position coach and new QB made the growth slower.  There were surprises in Froholdt and Gibson.  Just don't see how any of that led to a conclusion that the OL was the downfall. 
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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2017, 08:34:37 am »

Most people would have considered last season real progress if it wasn't for the VT and Mizz meltdowns. The defense did its parts in both those games. It was the offenses inability to close out games that caused those losses. I'm not comparing our offensive line to others in the conference. For us to win big, our offensive line needs to be elite. To this point, it has not been.
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hogsanity

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2017, 08:37:57 am »

Most people would have considered last season real progress if it wasn't for the VT and Mizz meltdowns. The defense did its parts in both those games. It was the offenses inability to close out games that caused those losses. I'm not comparing our offensive line to others in the conference. For us to win big, our offensive line needs to be elite. To this point, it has not been.

Defense has been the issue, and will continue to be until safety and lb play improve. In both the Mizzu and Vt games, the defense got torched, repeatedly, in the second half. At Mizzu, if not for three drops of wide open passes and a bad overthrow of an open receiver, the Hogs would have trailed at half time.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2017, 08:38:54 am »


Not stating at all that the OL was where it needed to be.  However, when I see something like "downfall", my expectation is that it is THE reason we collapsed. 

Sure, it's reasonable for people to wonder why we did have the plug and play development.  Having a new position coach and new QB made the growth slower.  There were surprises in Froholdt and Gibson.  Just don't see how any of that led to a conclusion that the OL was the downfall. 

I agree that the O-Line made plenty of mistakes last year in terms of pass-pro but what no one seems to want to discuss is the QB not making proper reads at the LOS, not checking out of bad plays, missed blocking assignments by the RB's and TE's, WR's not finding the seams and getting open more quickly and then holding the ball too long trying to give them time to get open, which ultimately contributed to trying to force the ball, which at times, resulted in multiple INT's.

Merely quoting the number of Sacks is the low hanging fruit of making a post without digging deeper into what may have been contributing factors.
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The Kig

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2017, 08:56:39 am »

I agree that the O-Line made plenty of mistakes last year in terms of pass-pro but what no one seems to want to discuss is the QB not making proper reads at the LOS, not checking out of bad plays, missed blocking assignments by the RB's and TE's, WR's not finding the seams and getting open more quickly and then holding the ball too long trying to give them time to get open, which ultimately contributed to trying to force the ball, which at times, resulted in multiple INT's.

Merely quoting the number of Sacks is the low hanging fruit of making a post without digging deeper into what may have been contributing factors.

Whaley himself discussed lack of blocking being a part of his PT.   From what I hear, he has matured there, which will be critical now that he is the feature back.,   NEW... Seems it was a theme for the Offense as a whole last year.  New OL (built more a round road grader than pass pro), new OL coach, new TE (stretch with Sprinkle, but HH was the man before), new RB core (2 players off to the NFL)... Just a whole lot of new that will not be new this year.
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Razorbackers

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2017, 01:15:31 pm »

Bielema has been at Arkansas four seasons and sent five linemen to the NFL. Ragnow will be drafted next year. Ask NFL scouts what they think of Bielema's ability to develop lineman.

In fact, look up how many lineman Bielema has in the NFL right now total.

Defense has been our Achilles heel. Not offensive line.

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luke hawg

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2017, 04:10:04 pm »

Defense has been the issue, and will continue to be until safety and lb play improve. In both the Mizzu and Vt games, the defense got torched, repeatedly, in the second half. At Mizzu, if not for three drops of wide open passes and a bad overthrow of an open receiver, the Hogs would have trailed at half time.

Zero points in the second half of both games. I'm not saying the defense isn't terrible but that has been the norm for a good while. I also agree that Austin's pre snap reads and RB picking up blitzers was subpar. But our ability to run the ball with power on first down and short yardage situations has been average. For Bielema to win an SEC championship, this part of our game has to be elite in my opinion. I realize that it is only an opinion. I was actually surprised when researching our rushing numbers compared to Wisconsin's in Bret's first 4 years. It pretty comparable with us performing slightly better.
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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2017, 04:14:53 pm »

In order to appease the rabid fan base for wins, Bielema has had to play younger players than he would like. He has yet been able to "develop" players. I believe I see a beginning.
Alabama, LSU, ATM, Georgia, Fl. Auburn have a built in recruiting advantage. People who can't figure this out don't understand recruiting.
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2017, 04:24:40 pm »

A position group that Bielema correctly places an increased emphasis on has not been good enough for his style play to this point. I was sold on the ball control offense limiting defiencies on defense at Arkansas. A place where defensive depth will always be a struggle. I like the transition to a more aggressive defense which should result in less time on the field for the defense. The problem is to this point our offensive line has not been capable of closing out games on the ground. Bilelema has consistently acquired early leads in games only to end up in close games once he tries to lean more heavily on the ground game. He is going to continually revert back to this, because it's his only chance at winning big. The quality of offensive linemen will determine the success or failure of Bielema. His style was producing 1st and 2nd round picks at Wisconsin. At this point we've had one Bielema recruited linemen drafted in the later rounds. This is the single factor that is having the largest affect on our quality of play.

I agree closing out some games on the ground has cost us some big wins and our OL has been partially to blame but we have to be able to stop teams in the 4th quarter. 
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HogsonHicks

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Re: Development of offensive linemen has been our downfall.
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2017, 04:35:47 pm »

O-line development below expectations?  That's perhaps a fair point.

O-line as the "downfall"?  That's a reach. As others have said, we've scored points under CBB. We haven't defended.
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