CBB... #7 on Coaches Hot Seat

[BigE_23]

Yet another "Defender of the Program" dedicated to stamping out any hint of anything that even remotely looks positive about the current team.

What is it about our society that has made us so weak that we shutter at anything that could potentially be perceived as negative? I'm sorry, but this is same thinking that has given way to safe spaces and condemns "hate speech." It's no different.

I can acknowledge that there are reasons to be excited about this upcoming season WHILE ALSO expressing concerns about the direction of the program. Not everything has to be either/or. Sometimes, and most of the time, things can be both/and. You really can have your cake and eat it too!

Listen, if Bret Bielema wins we all win. I truly like the guy. I admire him and I think he's a great person. I love the way he loves our players, and I like his philosophy of controlling the ball as well as the line of scrimmage. I WANT HIM TO DO WELL, because if he does - we're all happy. However, the bottom line is that 25-26 and 10-22 (no matter how you slice it, try to spin it, break it down or look at it) IS NOT DOING WELL.

If you had cancer, would you prefer a doctor that only told you positive things, or one who told you the cold hard facts about your sickness and gave a plan of treatment to make you healthy?

Just the same, we don't have to burry our heads, ignore facts or create an alternative reality of positivism in order to be a "true fans" of the Arkansas Razorbacks.

[Gonzo]

Read some of this thread, not all of it, enough to see it of course devolved into the standard arguments. The funny part to me about it is, as I've said before, if BB doesn't work out and is gone in a couple years, his performance as the Hog HC will be revised in the same brutal fashion as most former coaches, largely by the very same crowd that is proclaiming how great he's doing right now. As a Hog fan I hope he turns out to be every bit as good as they claim, and if he's not, I hope the next one is.


Go Hogs!

[EastexHawg]

What part of 6 years do you not understand? Long placed his neck in the noose with the buyout as a show of confidence. You better believe Long is not going to kick that chair he is standing on out from beneath himself until those 6 years are complete.

So the thing that absolves Long of all responsibility for the performance of the coach is that Long made a promise of six years to that coach AND put in place an exhorbitant buyout to ensure that changing coaches would be devastating to the program from a financial perspective?  Do you think that line of reasoning excuses executives in the rest of the world?

"John, sales over the last four years are at an all-time low.  We have gone from a market share leader to near the bottom of the barrel.  That VP of Sales and Marketing we are paying $4 million per year has to go."

"I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but that can't happen."

"Why not?"

"Because when I hired him I guaranteed him six years.  Not only that, but I obligated the company to such an enormous buyout...which, by the way, is almost completely one-sided in that he can walk away at any time...that terminating him would be catastrophic financially."

How do you suppose the rest of that conversation might go?

[PorkRinds]

Jeff hiring and firing put us in this mess and all the Blame rest squarely upon the AD and not the Coach.

El oh el again.

[BigE_23]

You're the AD. Call up the deep pockets and tell them you made a mistake and need more cash for CBB's buyout. While you're at it call 1-800-GO-UHAUL.

Another 6-7 win season and losing conference record and he won't have to call them...they'll be calling him, possibly with information on that moving truck.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

So the thing that absolves Long of all responsibility for the performance of the coach is that Long made a promise of six years to that coach AND put in place an exhorbitant buyout to ensure that changing coaches would be devastating to the program from a financial perspective?  Do you think that line of reasoning excuses executives in the rest of the world?

"John, sales over the last four years are at an all-time low.  We have gone from a market share leader to near the bottom of the barrel.  That VP of Sales and Marketing we are paying $4 million per year has to go."

"I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but that can't happen."

"Why not?"

"Because when I hired him I guaranteed him six years.  Not only that, but I obligated the company to such an enormous buyout...which, by the way, is almost completely one-sided in that he can walk away at any time...that terminating him would be catastrophic financially."

How do you suppose the rest of that conversation might go?

Did it sound like I was absolving Long when I stated he placed his head in the noose? Or do you think I may have been insinuating that was pretty stupid?

[BigE_23]

So the thing that absolves Long of all responsibility for the performance of the coach is that Long made a promise of six years to that coach AND put in place an exhorbitant buyout to ensure that changing coaches would be devastating to the program from a financial perspective?  Do you think that line of reasoning excuses executives in the rest of the world?

"John, sales over the last four years are at an all-time low.  We have gone from a market share leader to near the bottom of the barrel.  That VP of Sales and Marketing we are paying $4 million per year has to go."

"I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but that can't happen."

"Why not?"

"Because when I hired him I guaranteed him six years.  Not only that, but I obligated the company to such an enormous buyout...which, by the way, is almost completely one-sided in that he can walk away at any time...that terminating him would be catastrophic financially."

How do you suppose the rest of that conversation might go?

Of your 21600 posts, this one might be my favorite.

[ricepig]

Jeff Long did not guarantee CBB 6 years, the Contract was for 7 years with 4 years guaranteed. The 6 years crap is utter nonsense.

I guess you can post a link to this. I will tell you that a link is readily found that will tell you his first contract is from Dec. 4, 2012 until Dec. 31, 2018. Of course you know it was amended until Dec. 31, 2020.

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/public/ab-Bret-Bielema-Contract.PDF

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Of your 21600 posts, this one might be my favorite.

Yeah, that'll show the 3 people that have ever defended CBB's buyout.

[EastexHawg]

Did it sound like I was absolving Long when I stated he placed his head in the noose? Or do you think I may have been insinuating that was pretty stupid?

Your post was in response to Guv's assertion that the AD is indeed responsible for the on the field results of the coach so I construed it as somewhat of a rebuttal, but at least we can agree on the stupidity part about Long.

[ricepig]

So the thing that absolves Long of all responsibility for the performance of the coach is that Long made a promise of six years to that coach AND put in place an exhorbitant buyout to ensure that changing coaches would be devastating to the program from a financial perspective?  Do you think that line of reasoning excuses executives in the rest of the world?

"John, sales over the last four years are at an all-time low.  We have gone from a market share leader to near the bottom of the barrel.  That VP of Sales and Marketing we are paying $4 million per year has to go."

"I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, but that can't happen."

"Why not?"

"Because when I hired him I guaranteed him six years.  Not only that, but I obligated the company to such an enormous buyout...which, by the way, is almost completely one-sided in that he can walk away at any time...that terminating him would be catastrophic financially."

How do you suppose the rest of that conversation might go?

This isn't the real world, it's college football. Also, the RF and the administration signed off on all of this. That would be the board in real world business, you are a disgruntled shareholder, you don't have much say so.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Your post was in response to Guv's assertion that the AD is indeed responsible for the on the field results of the coach so I construed it as somewhat of a rebuttal, but at least we can agree on the stupidity part about Long.

Long is likely to sink or swim on CBB's performance due to the buyout. Because the desired results have not been met thus far doesn't mean Long is going to pull the plug now. It would DEFINITELY be to his detriment. 6 years.

[EastexHawg]

This isn't the real world, it's college football. Also, the RF and the administration signed off on all of this. That would be the board in real world business, you are a disgruntled shareholder, you don't have much say so.

I never said I did.  I'm just pointing out that absolving Long is ridiculous.  As for the board, do you think Long may have taken both his own recommendation of Bielema as the head football coach and the compensation package, including the buyout, that he drew up to them for approval?  Or did the board come up with all of that on their own?  If they can't rely on Long to run operations and not put the organization at risk, but instead have to assume all those responsibilities themselves...why do they need him?

[PorkRinds]

I never said I did.  I'm just pointing out that absolving Long is ridiculous.  As for the board, do you think Long may have taken both his own recommendation of Bielema as the head football coach and the compensation package, including the buyout, that he drew up to them for approval?  Or did the board come up with all of that on their own?  If they can't rely on Long to run operations and not put the organization at risk, but instead have to assume all those responsibilities themselves...why do they need him?

I mean you can say what you will, but hiring CBB didn't put the program at risk.  Even if he doesn't work out in the end it was a great hire on paper and the program will be stronger when he leaves than it was when he got here.  If anything he put the program at risk by hiring Petrino.

[Deep Shoat]

What is it about our society that has made us so weak that we shutter at anything that could potentially be perceived as negative? I'm sorry, but this is same thinking that has given way to safe spaces and condemns "hate speech." It's no different.

I can acknowledge that there are reasons to be excited about this upcoming season WHILE ALSO expressing concerns about the direction of the program. Not everything has to be either/or. Sometimes, and most of the time, things can be both/and. You really can have your cake and eat it too!

Listen, if Bret Bielema wins we all win. I truly like the guy. I admire him and I think he's a great person. I love the way he loves our players, and I like his philosophy of controlling the ball as well as the line of scrimmage. I WANT HIM TO DO WELL, because if he does - we're all happy. However, the bottom line is that 25-26 and 10-22 (no matter how you slice it, try to spin it, break it down or look at it) IS NOT DOING WELL.

If you had cancer, would you prefer a doctor that only told you positive things, or one who told you the cold hard facts about your sickness and gave a plan of treatment to make you healthy?

Just the same, we don't have to burry our heads, ignore facts or create an alternative reality of positivism in order to be a "true fans" of the Arkansas Razorbacks.

I just want to make sure the problem is cancer, instead of going through chemo when the problem is malnutrition.

You guys keep ignoring our record since integration.  We are a 7 win program, on average, since that time.  In that same period, we have never given a coach who wasn't Houston Nutt a chance to just build the program from the ground up.  Quick fixes at Arkansas are likely to end up like quick fixes at SMU and Ole Miss.  It's clear to anyone that cares to look that our talent is better and deeper than ever, even if only by a few places.  But it is more consistent.  We are now fully stocked w/ CBB players.  So he gets this year and next to show IF he is the guy.

Some "Hog fans" would rather be right than see the team be good.

[EastexHawg]

I mean you can say what you will, but hiring CBB didn't put the program at risk.  Even if he doesn't work out in the end it was a great hire on paper and the program will be stronger when he leaves than it was when he got here.  If anything he put the program at risk by hiring Petrino.

The risk lies in the brand (football program) suffering but the organization being unable to take corrective action because of the idiotic buyout.  And...losing most certainly hurts the brand.  Do you think recruits are more likely to want to sign with a team they see playing in marquee games several times a season, and ranked in the top ten/top twenty going into those games, or with a team that has the second worst record within its conference over a five year span?
   

[Dropkick]

I just want to make sure the problem is cancer, instead of going through chemo when the problem is malnutrition.

You guys keep ignoring our record since integration.  We are a 7 win program, on average, since that time.  In that same period, we have never given a coach who wasn't Houston Nutt a chance to just build the program from the ground up.  Quick fixes at Arkansas are likely to end up like quick fixes at SMU and Ole Miss.  It's clear to anyone that cares to look that our talent is better and deeper than ever, even if only by a few places.  But it is more consistent.  We are now fully stocked w/ CBB players.  So he gets this year and next to show IF he is the guy.

Some "Hog fans" would rather be right than see the team be good.

EXACTLY

[LR54]

What is it about our society that has made us so weak that we shutter at anything that could potentially be perceived as negative? I'm sorry, but this is same thinking that has given way to safe spaces and condemns "hate speech." It's no different.

I can acknowledge that there are reasons to be excited about this upcoming season WHILE ALSO expressing concerns about the direction of the program. Not everything has to be either/or. Sometimes, and most of the time, things can be both/and. You really can have your cake and eat it too!

Listen, if Bret Bielema wins we all win. I truly like the guy. I admire him and I think he's a great person. I love the way he loves our players, and I like his philosophy of controlling the ball as well as the line of scrimmage. I WANT HIM TO DO WELL, because if he does - we're all happy. However, the bottom line is that 25-26 and 10-22 (no matter how you slice it, try to spin it, break it down or look at it) IS NOT DOING WELL.

If you had cancer, would you prefer a doctor that only told you positive things, or one who told you the cold hard facts about your sickness and gave a plan of treatment to make you healthy?

Just the same, we don't have to burry our heads, ignore facts or create an alternative reality of positivism in order to be a "true fans" of the Arkansas Razorbacks.

I'd prefer a Dr. that didn't focus on how bad a shape I was in when the disease began 3 or 4 years ago (i.e. 2-14)
and gave a more accurate assessment based on more recent treatments. (i.e. 8-8).

As far as the other psycho-babble nonsense, let me simplify it for you. The majority of subject threads and posts here aren't potentially negative. The clear intent is purely negative.

While I'm not a fan of venting one's most negative feelings and frustrations on a public forum that potential recruits, their friends and families, and other competitors can read, it doesn't cause me to shudder.

It may occasionally motivate me to post a somewhat positive counterpoint in the interest of a little balance.

I guess for some that engage in constant negativity, that might seem like "creating an alternative reality of positivism".

[Gonzo]

Some "Hog fans" would rather be right than see the team be good.

There are folks in that category on every side of this issue, as is the case with most issues. Proving the other "side" wrong is more important than anything else.


Go Hogs!

[Gonzo]

Yeah, that'll show the 3 people that have ever defended CBB's buyout.

3?   I figured you read this board more than that. There are many folks who use the buyout as a defense.


Go Hogs!

[ricepig]

There are folks in that category on every side of this issue, as is the case with most issues. Proving the other "side" wrong is more important than anything else.


Go Hogs!

You can't prove that!

[Hawgar The Horrible]

The risk lies in the brand (football program) suffering but the organization being unable to take corrective action because of the idiotic buyout.  And...losing most certainly hurts the brand.  Do you think recruits are more likely to want to sign with a team they see playing in marquee games several times a season, and ranked in the top ten/top twenty going into those games, or with a team that has the second worst record within its conference over a five year span?

Don't trip over your hypocrisy. The brand also suffers when recruits see relentless railing against the head coach by factions within the fan base. Casting doubt about who a kid may be playing for is always a brilliant idea.

Look up the definition of the word edification and try practicing some of that for a change.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

3?   I figured you read this board more than that. There are many folks who use the buyout as a defense.


Go Hogs!

Stating why CBB won't be fired at this point in time is not in defense of anything. The buyout is simply THE prohibitive factor.

[Gonzo]

You can't prove that!

It's just as "provable" as the assertion to which I responded, and both are fairly accurate. Just takes a little reading around here.


Go Hogs!

[hogcard1964]

Long definitely shares in the blame for this.

[Gonzo]

Stating why CBB won't be fired at this point in time is not in defense of anything. The buyout is simply THE prohibitive factor.

For you perhaps. I have seen far more than 3 folks defending the buyout as a good thing, somehow protecting the Hogs from losing such a wonderful coach.


Go Hogs!

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Ok, I'm sorry you feel that way, but it's pretty accurate. 

Nonetheless, I'll alter it.

"most will be content".

I don't think that is true either. And this is JMO but I think that if all we win is 6-7 games this coming season, the majority will be like..."ok, this isn't working out, time for a change". But it probably won't matter what anyone thinks because he will most likely be here through the 2018 season.

[GuvHog]

I guess you can post a link to this. I will tell you that a link is readily found that will tell you his first contract is from Dec. 4, 2012 until Dec. 31, 2018. Of course you know it was amended until Dec. 31, 2020.

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/public/ab-Bret-Bielema-Contract.PDF

Only 4 years of the initial contract were guaranteed, not 6.

[ricepig]

It's just as "provable" as the assertion to which I responded, and both are fairly accurate. Just takes a little reading around here.


Go Hogs!

Ummm, it was sarcasm....

[EastexHawg]

Don't trip over your hypocrisy. The brand also suffers when recruits see relentless railing against the head coach by factions within the fan base. Casting doubt about who a kid may be playing for is always a brilliant idea.

Look up the definition of the word edification and try practicing some of that for a change.

Long can't be blamed because Long gave a buyout that Long can't afford to pay, and Bielema can't be blamed for losing because message board fans complaining about Bielema's losing are making it harder for Bielema to do anything other than lose.

I think I am getting dizzy from running in so many circles.

[Wildhog]

Eastex bringing it ITT

[ricepig]

Only 4 years of the initial contract were guaranteed, not 6.

Try reading page 24 where it guarantees 6 years of salary, lol. Post me a link on your 4 year guarantee, I just posted you the initial contract, if you're incapable of reading it, then I feel sorry for you.

[GuvHog]

Don't trip over your hypocrisy. The brand also suffers when recruits see relentless railing against the head coach by factions within the fan base. Casting doubt about who a kid may be playing for is always a brilliant idea.

Look up the definition of the word edification and try practicing some of that for a change.

It didn't hurt the brand in 2006 and 2007. The criticism of Houston Nutt during those 2 years was far worse than any criticism that CBB has gotten since he's been here. Houston was let go, a new coach was hired and in 4 short years the Hogs finished the season ranked #5 nationally. That ain't too shabby.

[hogcard1964]

I don't think that is true either. And this is JMO but I think that if all we win is 6-7 games this coming season, the majority will be like..."ok, this isn't working out, time for a change". But it probably won't matter what anyone thinks because he will most likely be here through the 2018 season.

I tend to agree with that.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Long can't be blamed because Long gave a buyout that Long can't afford to pay, and Bielema can't be blamed for losing because message board fans complaining about Bielema's losing are making it harder for Bielema to do anything other than lose.

I think I am getting dizzy from running in so many circles.

If you're dizzy try doing something about that dyslexia because I never said Long wasn't to blame for the stupid buyout.

[GuvHog]

Try reading page 24 where it guarantees 6 years of salary, lol. Post me a link on your 4 year guarantee, I just posted you the initial contract, if you're incapable of reading it, then I feel sorry for you.

It guarantees his salary, but does not guarantee that he will coach all 6 years.

[Gonzo]

Ummm, it was sarcasm....

Aahh, mea culpa. As a (often ineffective) user of same, I shoulda have know better.


Go Hogs!

[Hawgar The Horrible]

 

It guarantees his salary, but does not guarantee that he will coach all 6 years.

The guaranteed salary and colossal buyout damn sure did.

[hogcard1964]

It guarantees his salary, but does not guarantee that he will coach all 6 years.

He's not getting fired this season.  It's a horrible contract.

[GuvHog]

If you're dizzy try doing something about that dyslexia because I never said Long wasn't to blame for the stupid buyout.

With that buyout, Long put all his eggs in one basket.

If CBB succeeds in turning the program around, Jeff Long will look like a freakin' Genius.

On the other hand if Jeff Long is forced to fire CBB at the end of this season or next season, he'll come off looking like the biggest jack*** to ever occupy an AD's chair.

[PorkRinds]

Eastex bringing it ITT

He can't be bringing ITT. They closed recently. 

[GuvHog]

He's not getting fired this season.  It's a horrible contract.

I agree. He'll likely get next year.

Finishing 0-8 in SEC play would probably cause the PTB to force Long's hand but the Hogs will finish far better than that.

[PorkRinds]

With that buyout, Long put all his eggs in one basket.

If CBB succeeds in turning the program around, Jeff Long will look like a freakin' Genius.

On the other hand if Jeff Long is forced to fire CBB at the end of this season or next season, he'll come off looking like the biggest jack*** to ever occupy an AD's chair.

No he won't. He will leave here a well respected AD no matter what happens with Coach B. Those who matter respect Long. It's the redneck contingent that are hell bent on kicking the yankee to the curb. And they don't mean squat.

[hogcard1964]

I agree. He'll likely get next year.

Finishing 0-8 in SEC play would probably cause the PTB to force Long's hand but the Hogs will finish far better than that.

They'll win their customary 6-8 game and everything will settle down for awhile.

[ricepig]

It guarantees his salary, but does not guarantee that he will coach all 6 years.

Well, it didn't guarantee that he would coach one game, lol.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

With that buyout, Long put all his eggs in one basket.

If CBB succeeds in turning the program around, Jeff Long will look like a freakin' Genius.

On the other hand if Jeff Long is forced to fire CBB at the end of this season or next season, he'll come off looking like the biggest jack*** to ever occupy an AD's chair.

Really? Why didn't I think of that earlier this morning? Oh, wait...I did. Everything but the jack*** part.

[GuvHog]

No he won't. He will leave here a well respected AD no matter what happens with Coach B. Those who matter respect Long. It's the redneck contingent that are hell bent on kicking the yankee to the curb. And they don't mean squat.

I didn't say anything about him leaving or wanting him fired.

Giving a 15 Million Dollar buyout to a head coach who just finished 7-5 in his second year is an asinine move that no AD worth his salt would make because CBB hadn't shown any results on the field to earn it. Long took a serious career risk in doing that. It's like going all in playing Poker holding only a pair of deuces in one's hand.

[GuvHog]

Well, it didn't guarantee that he would coach one game, lol.

True, very true.

[Al Boarland]

While I'm not a fan of venting one's most negative feelings and frustrations on a public forum that potential recruits, their friends and families, and other competitors can read, it doesn't cause me to shudder.

Considering the lack of talent in-state I don't think we have to worry about recruits, their friends and families seeing things on message boards. Most of the players we recruit didn't grow up Hog fans and I highly doubt they are googling "Arkansas Football Message Boards". Some coaches could potentially show them something but something tells me a slide with our record would suffice.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Considering the lack of talent in-state I don't think we have to worry about recruits, their friends and families seeing things on message boards. Most of the players we recruit didn't grow up Hog fans and I highly doubt they are googling "Arkansas Football Message Boards". Some coaches could potentially show them something but something tells me a slide with our record would suffice.

You think wrong. I know one out-of-state guy with a nephew on the team that rarely frequents this place anymore. Likely due to all the garbage.