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Author Topic: CFN preview  (Read 3715 times)

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Al Boarland

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #50 on: May 11, 2017, 12:12:33 pm »

Wait, I thought recruiting has improved drastically under Bret?

IMO, and according to the data, that is not accurate.  I'm not sure where that is coming from to be honest other than people thought CBB would take a bunch of diamonds in the rough and make them All-SEC type talents.  I will say it appears to be incrementally better, but definitely not to the level that some have as it pertains to their expectations for the program.  Sure, you can focus on getting a few more talented guys in, but when you look at the haves we are still very much a have not program.

I have pointed out a few myths commonly used on this board, but it never hurts to touch on them again.

1.  our team is working harder than everyone else
2.  everyone else will be the same or worse while we will be better
3.  the defense can't be any worse
4.  we are recruiting significantly better under CBB
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jkstock04

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #51 on: May 11, 2017, 12:46:17 pm »

Uh, yeah, our SEC record since joining the conference has been there since 1992. I guess that's the elephant you are referring too.
Without looking I'm going to say the last 5 years has been well below even our average performances since 1992. I'm talking about actual football on Saturdays, not APR scores and feely good stories.

The football program thrives and continues to do so because of ingenious marketing. That's the elephant in the room. If it lived/died off wins and losses these past 5 years would've been the death of it. Instead we are adding on to the stadium and gonna pack more people in there.

For the basketball program that doesn't work, there people look at bottom line wins/losses. If the wins aren't there the basketball program will sink into an abyss. Completely different set of circumstances for football. It's really quite interesting when you look at the dynamics of it all.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #52 on: May 11, 2017, 12:56:53 pm »

Improvement took a step back last year with those last 2 games and the embarrassment vs Tigger2.
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bkjbearcat

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #53 on: May 11, 2017, 01:00:45 pm »

Every program is a development program.  If you don't develop players you won't be around very long.  The assertion that CBB and Co are somehow head and shoulders better at developing players that are not ranked as high as other staffs developing players is not realistic.  I'll give you the low attrition numbers b/c I think it is an important factor.  However, it is about the clay you have to work with.  Every decent program develops their players.  I don't think we have a competitive advantage there.

Bill Snyder and Gary Pinkel were the kings in coaching up their players. Making 3's play like 4's. I'd give Snyder and Pinkel A's in coaching up. BB? I'd give him a D. A three is just a three under him.
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ricepig

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #54 on: May 11, 2017, 01:10:16 pm »

Without looking I'm going to say the last 5 years has been well below even our average performances since 1992. I'm talking about actual football on Saturdays, not APR scores and feely good stories.

The football program thrives and continues to do so because of ingenious marketing. That's the elephant in the room. If it lived/died off wins and losses these past 5 years would've been the death of it. Instead we are adding on to the stadium and gonna pack more people in there.

For the basketball program that doesn't work, there people look at bottom line wins/losses. If the wins aren't there the basketball program will sink into an abyss. Completely different set of circumstances for football. It's really quite interesting when you look at the dynamics of it all.

The Razorbacks are the state team, no NFL team to siphon away fans. If you like big time college football, it's what you are going to do. We aren't going to be down forever, and as past history has proven, we won't stay on top very long either. So, it's your belief that we pack 72,000 in because of the marketing by the athletic department? I don't understand why Vandy hasn't hired them all away by doubling their salary. We'll either get the ship on track, or we'll be looking for a new coach after 2018, seems pretty simple.
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bkjbearcat

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #55 on: May 11, 2017, 01:11:01 pm »

No... the elephant was already there, but you didn't notice it because you were busy buying #uncommon t-shirts.

Yay Marketing!  Oh look, a puppy!

I bought that yesterday along with my, "Don't have a cow man" "I'd buy that for a dollar!" "Did I do that?" and "Bazinga!" shirts.

Yay Marketing!
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LR54

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #56 on: May 11, 2017, 02:11:31 pm »

Bill Snyder and Gary Pinkel were the kings in coaching up their players. Making 3's play like 4's. I'd give Snyder and Pinkel A's in coaching up. BB? I'd give him a D. A three is just a three under him.

2008-2012 we had 15 NFL draft picks.

2013-2017 we had 21. A 40% improvement.

The Patriots just signed more HOG players than from any other CFB team.

Somebody must be getting developed somehow.
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LRRandy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #57 on: May 11, 2017, 02:16:41 pm »

2008-2012 we had 15 NFL draft picks.

2013-2017 we had 21. A 40% improvement.

The Patriots just signed more HOG players than from any other CFB team

Somebody must be getting developed somehow.
undrafted free agents. Way to claim a victory. I bet you have track national championship banners hanging outside your house, huh.
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ricepig

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #58 on: May 11, 2017, 02:20:40 pm »

undrafted free agents. Way to claim a victory. I bet you have track national championship banners hanging outside your house, huh.

Is that like claiming teams in the final rankings vs national championships won recently?
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Al Boarland

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #59 on: May 11, 2017, 02:24:56 pm »

undrafted free agents. Way to claim a victory. I bet you have track national championship banners hanging outside your house, huh.

I say let's give CBB credit for getting guys signed. How many wins has that gotten him though?
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LRRandy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2017, 02:25:52 pm »

Is that like claiming teams in the final rankings vs national championships won recently?
you're going to have to explain what you mean. I know you're trying to be snarky, it's you after all, but I don't follow.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2017, 02:29:14 pm »

undrafted free agents. Way to claim a victory. I bet you have track national championship banners hanging outside your house, huh.

How many NC's in outdoor track and field does your team, Ohio State have, in any era?
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LRRandy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #62 on: May 11, 2017, 02:30:49 pm »

How many NC's in outdoor track and field does your team, Ohio State have, in any era?
well, Jesse Owens was pretty good.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2017, 02:38:32 pm »

well, Jesse Owens was pretty good.

How many? Answer: 1 in 1929
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jkstock04

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #64 on: May 11, 2017, 02:40:53 pm »

well, Jesse Owens was pretty good.
You need to learn how to dodge better. Read more Hogville, post less.
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LRRandy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #65 on: May 11, 2017, 02:43:44 pm »

How many? Answer: 1 in 1929
yay track. How did the synchronized swimming team finish. While we are discussing minutia.
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LR54

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #66 on: May 11, 2017, 02:50:10 pm »

undrafted free agents. Way to claim a victory. I bet you have track national championship banners hanging outside your house, huh.

The subject was developing players. That thing you have to do when you're not getting players through recruiting violations.
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Al Boarland

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2017, 03:11:34 pm »

The subject was developing players. That thing you have to do when you're not getting players through recruiting violations.

You have to develop players no matter how talented they are.  So, get the most talent you can get and develop it.  At the end of the day when they line up someone is going to beat someone.  More times than not the more talented player is going to win that battle if properly developed.
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hogcard1964

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #68 on: May 11, 2017, 03:12:55 pm »

The subject was developing players. That thing you have to do when you're not getting players through recruiting violations.

So, is he having more trouble developing players, or with the Xs and Os of the game?
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hobhog

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #69 on: May 11, 2017, 03:19:54 pm »

Wait, I thought recruiting has improved drastically under Bret?

Everyone does understand these rankings are subjective, not scientific, right?

Coach B needs to win 8+ games next year to keep from getting at least uncomfortable. Don't think he would get fired unless complete meltdown, but he'd feel some pressure I am sure.

That being said, I think we do very well next year. It's time.
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Al Boarland

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #70 on: May 11, 2017, 03:26:55 pm »

Everyone does understand these rankings are subjective, not scientific, right?

Coach B needs to win 8+ games next year to keep from getting at least uncomfortable. Don't think he would get fired unless complete meltdown, but he'd feel some pressure I am sure.

That being said, I think we do very well next year. It's time.

I think if the ball rolls our way a couple times we can get that 8th or 9th win with a bowl game W. 
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #71 on: May 11, 2017, 03:29:02 pm »

yay track. How did the synchronized swimming team finish. While we are discussing minutia.

Typical, change the question when you have no good answer. Ohio State's fan site must really suck for you to spend so much time over here.
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LR54

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #72 on: May 11, 2017, 03:39:08 pm »

So, is he having more trouble developing players, or with the Xs and Os of the game?

I think it's called building a program.

Maybe you need to ask the Clemson "fans" that were trying to fire Dabo Swinney after his 3rd and 4th years.
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LR54

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #73 on: May 11, 2017, 03:51:52 pm »

Without looking I'm going to say the last 5 years has been well below even our average performances since 1992. I'm talking about actual football on Saturdays, not APR scores and feely good stories.

The football program thrives and continues to do so because of ingenious marketing. That's the elephant in the room. If it lived/died off wins and losses these past 5 years would've been the death of it. Instead we are adding on to the stadium and gonna pack more people in there.

For the basketball program that doesn't work, there people look at bottom line wins/losses. If the wins aren't there the basketball program will sink into an abyss. Completely different set of circumstances for football. It's really quite interesting when you look at the dynamics of it all.

3 years following BP 4-20.

Last 2 years 8-8. Tied for 3rd in SEC-W behind Bama and LSU.
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hobhog

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #74 on: May 11, 2017, 03:56:18 pm »

3 years following BP 4-20.

Last 2 years 8-8. Tied for 3rd in SEC-W behind Bama and LSU.

Coach B is a good coach IMO, and definitely works hard at promoting Hogs statewide. He is very good in person and at clubs.

He gets the right pieces he will win big here. Brutal division and some bad luck have kept him down but I think he breaks thru. We shall see.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2017, 03:56:20 pm »

Without looking I'm going to say the last 5 years has been well below even our average performances since 1992. I'm talking about actual football on Saturdays, not APR scores and feely good stories.

The football program thrives and continues to do so because of ingenious marketing. That's the elephant in the room. If it lived/died off wins and losses these past 5 years would've been the death of it. Instead we are adding on to the stadium and gonna pack more people in there.

For the basketball program that doesn't work, there people look at bottom line wins/losses. If the wins aren't there the basketball program will sink into an abyss. Completely different set of circumstances for football. It's really quite interesting when you look at the dynamics of it all.

Here's your link to that information.

Edit: For some reason they aren't showing the 2016 record of 3-5. 1992-2015 is listed in the link.

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/conference.pl?start=1992&end=2016&team=Arkansas
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ricepig

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2017, 05:16:57 pm »

you're going to have to explain what you mean. I know you're trying to be snarky, it's you after all, but I don't follow.

Seems straight forward to me, I'm sorry you can't remember your posts from thread to thread. I guess your retorts aren't ever "snarky".......
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hogcard1964

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2017, 06:30:58 pm »

I think it's called building a program.

Maybe you need to ask the Clemson "fans" that were trying to fire Dabo Swinney after his 3rd and 4th years.

He's been there 8 years and has had one sub par season, in 2010 at 6-7.  Nobody wanted him fired.  His 3rd and 4th years they ended up ranked in the top 12 both years.  You need to find a better comparison.
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factchecker

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2017, 06:33:05 pm »

Nobody wanted him fired.

You are crazy.  Plenty of the fringe Clemson fans wanted him fired.  They got tired of him "Clemsoning".

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2605558-how-dabo-swinney-went-from-bad-hire-to-hot-seat-to-national-championship-game
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LRRandy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2017, 06:42:31 pm »

Seems straight forward to me, I'm sorry you can't remember your posts from thread to thread. I guess your retorts aren't ever "snarky".......
huh
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LR54

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2017, 06:47:17 pm »

He's been there 8 years and has had one sub par season, in 2010 at 6-7.  Nobody wanted him fired.  His 3rd and 4th years they ended up ranked in the top 12 both years.  You need to find a better comparison.

2010

Quote
After the conclusion of the regular season, many fans called for the firing of both Swinney and athletic director Terry Don Phillips

Quote
Discontent with Swinney grew even more after a bowl loss to South Florida made Clemson's final record 6-7, Clemson's first losing season since 1998. Swinney, who was 19-15, entered the 2011 season widely considered to be a coach on the hot seat

2011

Quote
#15 Clemson would go on to lose to the #23 West Virginia Mountaineers, 7033, conceding an all-time record number of points scored in a quarter (35), half (49) and game (70) in the 109-year history of bowl games.
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ricepig

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2017, 06:47:56 pm »

huh

I'm pretty sure you fancy yourself as a smart guy, spend about 30 minutes rereading your posts, you'll figure it out.
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hogcard1964

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2017, 07:20:48 pm »

I'm pretty sure you fancy yourself as a smart guy, spend about 30 minutes rereading your posts, you'll figure it out.

Let him go. He's rolling.
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moses_007

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #83 on: May 11, 2017, 08:30:36 pm »

No way will this club win 9 games.  It will closely resemble Bielema's first club in my estimation.  You don't win many games with all green running backs and all green receivers.  It will be a losing season, and put even more heat on CBB to keep his job.
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HOGINTENNESSEE

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #84 on: May 11, 2017, 08:34:13 pm »

No way will this club win 9 games.  It will closely resemble Bielema's first club in my estimation.  You don't win many games with all green running backs and all green receivers.  It will be a losing season, and put even more heat on CBB to keep his job.

Easiest schedule by far we have had since CBB has been here. And Whaley isn't green
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moses_007

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #85 on: May 11, 2017, 08:37:00 pm »

Easiest schedule by far we have had since CBB has been here. And Whaley isn't green
Whaley hasn't proven he can shoulder the main RB position.  If he turns out to be as good this year as Alex Collins, we might be all right.
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The ColonelHog

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2017, 09:52:00 am »

I'll take that bet for any amount you wish to put up.

Not a gambling man but if I were you would be making a huuuuuuge mistake.  I don't think a top 16 school in FB revenue is worried about a buyout that can be paid out over several years.  7-6 gets him canned.
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LZH

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2017, 10:04:22 am »

Not a gambling man but if I were you would be making a huuuuuuge mistake.  I don't think a top 16 school in FB revenue is worried about a buyout that can be paid out over several years.  7-6 gets him canned.

Maybe it should, but it won't. If he makes a bowl game he'll get another year. Which I do feel that unless he's been a complete disaster a coach deserves five years to show what he can do.

Having said that, FB would have probably pulled the trigger by now. But Long hired him so I don't see him firing him until he has to.
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The ColonelHog

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2017, 10:09:50 am »

Whaley hasn't proven he can shoulder the main RB position.  If he turns out to be as good this year as Alex Collins, we might be all right.

If the Hogs have a losing record it won't be because of the RB position.  Whaley has shown he can rush for 1200 yds in the SEC.  I wouldn't hang your point on that position.
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #89 on: May 13, 2017, 07:40:07 am »

Do you think it is a legit setback?

God help me.  I think I'm about to defend Buckeye Randy.

He's correct in the sense that losing RW3 will be an excuse on BB's behalf if he has a below expectations season.

And I think it's legit to a degree.
I don't think it's reason to tank the season but unless Whaley elevates to a feature back AND the others elevate to legit supporting backs it will cost some games.

Also, I find it odd how fans can (not directed at you chamb) angle their perspective based on desire.
In the beginning, BB could have fielded a girl school team and the mantra was, "he's building the right way", and voila.  Joe Sixpack was satisfied.
NOW, losing your star RB, having an OL that was below average last year and lost its second best player, losing all but one of your WRs, coming back from the SEC's worst defense and changing BOTH scheme and DC is no reason to modify expectations whatsoever because _________________.

It's simply baffling.
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #90 on: May 13, 2017, 07:49:24 am »

my stance really wasn't knocking Bielema. I simply stated that it would be a talking point. Yet another reason not to achieve.  My thoughts on Bielema have turned 360 degrees from when he as hired. At that time I thought he was a punk. Based on how he talked while he was coach at Wisconsin the sound bites I heard was nothing but arrogant, pompous buffoonery. I did think (hesitantly) that he was a good football coach. Having witnessed his compassion for his players, I now think he is a pretty decent man. I have been witness however to the fact that he may not be as good a football coach as I was giving him credit for. There have been collapses and missteps each and every season that leave you scratching your head. Standing off to the side alone while his team was in free fall during the Va. Tech game was puzzling. All coaches face adversity and personnel losses each season. Bielema hasn't seemed to be able to overcome any of that and lead his team above the mediocrity that it has been mired in since he inherited a dumpster fire.

So you did a complete 180, jumped on board, then another 180 and was completely vs him?
Why does your commentary suggest otherwise?

<<Whew.  All is well in my world again.>>
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LRRandy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2017, 07:51:32 am »

So you did a complete 180, jumped on board, then another 180 and was completely vs him?
Why does your commentary suggest otherwise?

<<Whew.  All is well in my world again.>>
wait, what? My head is spinning.
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Dominicanhog

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2017, 08:12:01 am »

We'll either get the ship on track, or we'll be looking for a new coach after 2018, seems pretty simple.

Just for my curiosity, what do you think "get the ship on track" looks like.... would  7-6 and 6-7 be enough?   I don't see anyway we'll be looking for another coach unless we have back to back losing seasons...
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2017, 08:28:34 am »

God help me.  I think I'm about to defend Buckeye Randy.

He's correct in the sense that losing RW3 will be an excuse on BB's behalf if he has a below expectations season.

And I think it's legit to a degree.
I don't think it's reason to tank the season but unless Whaley elevates to a feature back AND the others elevate to legit supporting backs it will cost some games.


It amazes me that if any other coach loses the RB that led the SEC in rushing last year (during the regular season) and has younger RB's that don't perform at as high of a level and they admit that it had a negative effect on their offense, everyone nods and says, "yeah, I can see where that would be the case, bad break". But if Bielema says it, it is an excuse.

I think that Whaley will embrace his role as the #1 and make a big jump in production this season.

Maleek Williams, according to Enos, knows the offense and executes his assignments including blocking and pass-pro at a higher level than any Freshman RB that we have had lately. Additionally, even the upper classmen seem to be amazed at the way he runs the ball. Now that is certainly no guarantee that he is going to produce like that during the season, but I do think it is reason for optimism.

They split T.J. Hammonds out for the first part of spring so he could lend his speed and additional depth to the WR's and then brought him back to the RB's the last part of the spring. He is going to see time at both and the ability to use him both ways could create match-up problems when he lines up in the backfield and then shifts to the slot.

Juan Day supposedly had the healthiest and strongest spring of anytime since his arrival on campus and he will probably see some snaps as well.

Chase Hayden is going to probably get a stronger look this summer than he might have otherwise and might see some snaps if someone is injured, but I really think they will try to R/S him. Of course that doesn't mean that the R/S can't be pulled if need be.

I think we will be fine at RB. Would have been great if we hadn't lost RWIII, but I still think that we are in good shape.
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factchecker

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2017, 08:43:40 am »

It amazes me that if any other coach loses the RB that led the SEC in rushing last year (during the regular season) and has younger RB's that don't perform at as high of a level and they admit that it had a negative effect on their offense, everyone nods and says, "yeah, I can see where that would be the case, bad break". But if Bielema says it, it is an excuse.

Our "fans" are the worst at giving other teams leeway but dumping on the Hogs.  If we beat a team without their starting runningback or quarterback, or heck even their third string kicker somebody will say "Dat win don't count we wer lucky to beat them.  They didn't not have their third string kicker.  If they did we wood have lost by 100.  Bunch of medicortityty loosers."
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2017, 08:45:28 am »

wait, what? My head is spinning.

See the bolded part in my above post.

You went 360
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LZH

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #96 on: May 13, 2017, 09:49:55 am »

We will be fine at RB. Hopefully we don't have too many TO's because of little experience for the younger guys, but I think we are going to be okay.
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LRRandy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #97 on: May 13, 2017, 11:20:03 am »

See the bolded part in my above post.

You went 360
oh, I got it. That's why my head was spinning, almost 360 degrees. 😀
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LRRandy

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2017, 11:24:29 am »

It amazes me that if any othercoach loses the RB that led the SEC in rushing last year (during the regular season) and has younger RB's that don't perform at as high of a level and they admit that it had a negative effect on their offense, everyone nods and says, "yeah, I can see where that would be the case, bad break". But if Bielema says it, it is an excuse.

I think that Whaley will embrace his role as the #1 and make a big jump in production this season.

Maleek Williams, according to Enos, knows the offense and executes his assignments including blocking and pass-pro at a higher level than any Freshman RB that we have had lately. Additionally, even the upper classmen seem to be amazed at the way he runs the ball. Now that is certainly no guarantee that he is going to produce like that during the season, but I do think it is reason for optimism.

They split T.J. Hammonds out for the first part of spring so he could lend his speed and additional depth to the WR's and then brought him back to the RB's the last part of the spring. He is going to see time at both and the ability to use him both ways could create match-up problems when he lines up in the backfield and then shifts to the slot.

Juan Day supposedly had the healthiest and strongest spring of anytime since his arrival on campus and he will probably see some snaps as well.

Chase Hayden is going to probably get a stronger look this summer than he might have otherwise and might see some snaps if someone is injured, but I really think they will try to R/S him. Of course that doesn't mean that the R/S can't be pulled if need be.

I think we will be fine at RB. Would have been great if we hadn't lost RWIII, but I still think that we are in good shape.
seems like that happened to Mark  Richt every year. Not winning at a high enough level eventually cost him his job.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: CFN preview
« Reply #99 on: May 13, 2017, 02:10:50 pm »

seems like that happened to Mark  Richt every year. Not winning at a high enough level eventually cost him his job.

Mark Richt had strings of highly rated (top 10-15) recruiting classes, had talent stacked deep at Georgia and still didn't achieve at a high enough level to keep his job. Give Bielema that many highly ranked classes and you might see a different outcome.
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