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Author Topic: The evolution of Football  (Read 847 times)

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Piggfoot

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The evolution of Football
« on: May 08, 2017, 02:56:17 pm »

Considering head and neck injuries I believe the next step in prevention will be to disallow any leading with the head during blocking, tackling and running with the football. Deion Sanders was known to say he quite often made a business decision when tackling. I don't thing he ever made a tackle with the top of his shoulder pads.
If this change does not reduce head and neck injuries. I believe the next step should be to remove the suspension shoulder pads. Now before you blow your top, consider most blocking now is done with the hands and arms. When it comes to laying your pads on a man, it can not be done without leading with the head. JMHO.
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factchecker

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2017, 03:07:47 pm »

Make facemasking a penalty that results in an ejection.

If Coley can be ejected for the hit on this interception:



Then this pos needs to be ejected for slamming Austin down by his facemask:

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jkstock04

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2017, 03:18:01 pm »

They could call helmet to helmet 99% of the time a running back carries the ball between the tackles. It's totally a subjective call for the officials. If it's a smaller type wide receiver running with the ball they will call it every time. Bulked up Bama style running back? No chance that's getting called.

Also to the OP, I don't see much non physical (hands only) blocking when football teams run the ball between the tackles...so I'm not sure how that would work.
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hawgmasta

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 04:21:24 pm »

They could call helmet to helmet 99% of the time a running back carries the ball between the tackles. It's totally a subjective call for the officials. If it's a smaller type wide receiver running with the ball they will call it every time. Bulked up Bama style running back? No chance that's getting called.

Also to the OP, I don't see much non physical (hands only) blocking when football teams run the ball between the tackles...so I'm not sure how that would work.

That's part of the problem I think; these players have gotten so big and so fast we can always have bigger and faster guys but reaction time is the same as 100 years ago. At some point there's nothing you can do to slow or stop it happens too fast, and I believe we are about there.
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Hogwild

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 06:14:58 pm »

They could call helmet to helmet 99% of the time a running back carries the ball between the tackles. It's totally a subjective call for the officials. If it's a smaller type wide receiver running with the ball they will call it every time. Bulked up Bama style running back? No chance that's getting called.



In that case its not subjective at all, a running back between the tackles is not considered a defenseless player, helmet to helmet in those cases are allowed.
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Oklahawg

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2017, 06:34:34 pm »

Where the evolution has to begin is with youth sports. I see a LOT of 4th-6th grade teams with players that lock up the hands on a block and then drop the forehead into head-to-head contact. It isn't "leading with the head" as they engaged with hands first but it is painful and intimidating to other players.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2017, 07:12:20 pm »

That's part of the problem I think; these players have gotten so big and so fast we can always have bigger and faster guys but reaction time is the same as 100 years ago. At some point there's nothing you can do to slow or stop it happens too fast, and I believe we are about there.

Because players have gotten bigger and faster, even with improvements in the level of protection that the gear offers, the improvements haven't been able to keep pace.

Back in the dark ages, head to head was taught and if you didn't "stick your head in there" you weren't getting the job done and didn't play. Back then helmets had a series of straps (a suspension system they called it) inside the helmet and maybe your helmet fit very well or maybe it didn't. Point is, there wasn't much protection except for the helmet itself but we didn't know any better so we knocked the crapola out of each other as if we were unbreakable.

Yes, we got dinged temporarily at times (head ringing, temporary black out) and sometimes had full blown concussions, but as long as you could focus, you weren't throwing up and weren't having headaches, you were back in next week, or maybe even in the 2nd half. But we weren't as big as players today and for the most part, certainly weren't as fast or as developed in terms of muscle for the most part either.

As you point out, these days, they have pretty much reached the point where the equipment probably can't get much better in terms of protection, but players are just bigger, faster, stronger and short of playing two-below, I don't know how they are going to avoid head-to-head collisions at times.
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jkstock04

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2017, 08:18:54 pm »

In that case its not subjective at all, a running back between the tackles is not considered a defenseless player, helmet to helmet in those cases are allowed.
I thought the defenseless player rule and helmet to helmet rule were completely separate entities...but maybe I'm wrong there.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2017, 08:24:49 pm »

I thought the defenseless player rule and helmet to helmet rule were completely separate entities...but maybe I'm wrong there.

They are, but they can meet "head on" at times. :)
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TeufelHog

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2017, 08:33:47 pm »

Neck injuries due to "facemasking" would be substantially, if not completely, reduced if the NCAA would require the use of full facemask-shields/visors.  They would prohibit fingers from penetrating the facemask structure which enables the hand to grasp it.  Simple solution that's worth the test.
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2017, 08:43:40 pm »

I have always believed that the advancements in helmet technology are a double edged sword.  Helmets that can withstand more solid hits do protect the player, but at the same time give the player a greater sense of confidence to lead with the helmet.  I know that the rules of the game now are supposed to lead to penalty and player ejections, but by that point the damage is done.  It's a catch 22 situation.  You can't take a step back in technology and put players at risk, but the very technology designed for their safety gives them a better weapon to use on the field.  I don't presume to have an answer, I don't think that there's a correct one.

As far as shielding the masks, they may not be able to grab the mask, but grabbing the edges of the helmet with the new types of chin straps that don't snap, but ratchet down and don't release, can result in the same type of injury as grabbing the mask.  There just aren't any good answers.
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LZH

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 05:55:00 am »

I have always believed that the advancements in helmet technology are a double edged sword.  Helmets that can withstand more solid hits do protect the player, but at the same time give the player a greater sense of confidence to lead with the helmet.  I know that the rules of the game now are supposed to lead to penalty and player ejections, but by that point the damage is done.  It's a catch 22 situation.  You can't take a step back in technology and put players at risk, but the very technology designed for their safety gives them a better weapon to use on the field.  I don't presume to have an answer, I don't think that there's a correct one.

As far as shielding the masks, they may not be able to grab the mask, but grabbing the edges of the helmet with the new types of chin straps that don't snap, but ratchet down and don't release, can result in the same type of injury as grabbing the mask.  There just aren't any good answers.

Kinda like back in the late 50's and early 60's when guitar players were having to turn their amplifiers up because the crowds that came to rock and roll shows we're getting so much bigger....but they 'broke up' when pushed too hard. So manufacturers begin making higher-capacity equipment with beefed-up vacuum tubes to handle the load. Of course everyone knows what happened next. It caused the musicians to turn them up even louder because they had a fantastic distorted tone when cranked - the birth of hard rock.

When I was in the fourth grade in 1976, we buried a time capsule somewhere on the elementary school grounds. When we wrote letters describing what we thought the world would be like in 100 years, I wrote about football. I talked about clear plastic see-through face masks, a more elongated football, and teams playing for companies instead of cities ( I used the Texaco Oilers for an example). When I was going through some stuff in my old bedroom closets when we moved back in helping my mother with my dad when he was sick, I came across a copy from those old rotary machines with the blue ink that everyone sniffed. I thought it was funny because that was just a kid's wild idea and now it all seems possible it could swing that way.
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jgphillips3

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 08:10:54 am »

Kinda like back in the late 50's and early 60's when guitar players were having to turn their amplifiers up because the crowds that came to rock and roll shows we're getting so much bigger....but they 'broke up' when pushed too hard. So manufacturers begin making higher-capacity equipment with beefed-up vacuum tubes to handle the load. Of course everyone knows what happened next. It caused the musicians to turn them up even louder because they had a fantastic distorted tone when cranked - the birth of hard rock.

When I was in the fourth grade in 1976, we buried a time capsule somewhere on the elementary school grounds. When we wrote letters describing what we thought the world would be like in 100 years, I wrote about football. I talked about clear plastic see-through face masks, a more elongated football, and teams playing for companies instead of cities ( I used the Texaco Oilers for an example). When I was going through some stuff in my old bedroom closets when we moved back in helping my mother with my dad when he was sick, I came across a copy from those old rotary machines with the blue ink that everyone sniffed. I thought it was funny because that was just a kid's wild idea and now it all seems possible it could swing that way.

I like where you're going with this.  If this leads to Heavy Metal football, I'm all in!
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LZH

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 09:43:00 am »

I like where you're going with this.  If this leads to Heavy Metal football, I'm all in!

I wasn't trying to tie those two together, but now that you mention it......
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elksnort

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2017, 10:40:23 am »

The evolution of over reacting. Not meaning to derail, but there is a lot of this in the world.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2017, 02:51:37 pm »

Yes we were taught to put the crown of your helmet in the middle of their numbers.
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LZH

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2017, 02:54:41 pm »

Yes we were taught to put the crown of your helmet in the middle of their numbers.

???

We never were. We were taught to keep our head up....you duck your head you can't see darn. Facemask in his chest and wrap up.
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Mike_e

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2017, 03:41:04 pm »

Off the top of my head (no pun intended) I can think of a couple of ways to limit getting your head turned around.  One of them would mollify whiplash as well.

Neither would be cheap and both would somewhat limit mobility of the head.  Receivers and Dbacks would bitch and so would their coaches.

Both would be expensive and because of the limiting factor couldn't be done without being required across the board.  Quite a number of smaller schools and probably most JCs would scream.

Where there is a will there is a way but the NCAA is going to have to find out that going cheap isn't the way first.
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Deep Shoat

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2017, 04:19:54 pm »

???

We never were. We were taught to keep our head up....you duck your head you can't see darn. Facemask in his chest and wrap up.
Exactly. If you were taught to hit with the crown of the helmet, your coach was a moron.
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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2017, 04:28:32 pm »

Go back to these...

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factchecker

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2017, 04:33:27 pm »

Go back to these...



We've gone to something similar for 7 on 7 football:



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LZH

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2017, 08:20:34 pm »

Exactly. If you were taught to hit with the crown of the helmet, your coach was a moron.

Even in the early-to-mid 80's we were told not to spear anyone because it would get you hurt. I guess there had been enough neck/spinal injuries by then that had coaches aware of the potential disasters. Had a friend (TE/DE) break his neck in the last game our junior year but I don't really know how it happened, exactly. He played our senior year and was fine.
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PorkSoda

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Re: The evolution of Football
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2017, 09:01:10 pm »

I have always believed that the advancements in helmet technology are a double edged sword.  Helmets that can withstand more solid hits do protect the player, but at the same time give the player a greater sense of confidence to lead with the helmet.  I know that the rules of the game now are supposed to lead to penalty and player ejections, but by that point the damage is done.  It's a catch 22 situation.  You can't take a step back in technology and put players at risk, but the very technology designed for their safety gives them a better weapon to use on the field.  I don't presume to have an answer, I don't think that there's a correct one.

As far as shielding the masks, they may not be able to grab the mask, but grabbing the edges of the helmet with the new types of chin straps that don't snap, but ratchet down and don't release, can result in the same type of injury as grabbing the mask.  There just aren't any good answers.
given the publicity injuries get these days, I find it hard to believe that anyone would purposely expose themselves to injury just because there is better safety equipment. 

take nascar.  safety equipment has improved over the years, but I doubt you will see anyone purposely wreck their car at 190 just because there is better safety equipment than in the 70's
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