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Knowing what we know now - would you let your kid play football?

yes
no
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #250 on: May 12, 2017, 04:20:29 pm »

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

There's a reason why hard hitting players are more likely to be injured in the NFL.

Lol.  Are they?

Well there you have it.  For those of you reckless and foolish enough to allow your sons to play football, just tell them to try and hit softer than the other players.

While you're at it, tell them to keep their head up.
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bennyl08

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #251 on: May 12, 2017, 04:55:20 pm »

Lol.  Are they?

Well there you have it.  For those of you reckless and foolish enough to allow your sons to play football, just tell them to try and hit softer than the other players.

While you're at it, tell them to keep their head up.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs03/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=1722403

Nobody was less of a bug on a windshield than Cambell. How'd that work out for him? Compare him to Marshall Faulk who was much more finesse and whose body took much less punishment.

Campbell was going to hit you harder than you hit him, but his career was relatively short. Compare that to somebody like LeSean McCoy or LeVeon Bell. Physical runners, but you can never get a clean shot at them. Look at Alex Collins or Dennis Johnson. Rarely ever took a direct hit. Now, look at Dmac, he wanted to be the Hammer not the Nail. Injured his ribs playing here and we all know his injury statuses in the NFL.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #252 on: May 12, 2017, 05:47:46 pm »

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs03/columns/story?columnist=garber_greg&id=1722403

Nobody was less of a bug on a windshield than Cambell. How'd that work out for him? Compare him to Marshall Faulk who was much more finesse and whose body took much less punishment.

Campbell was going to hit you harder than you hit him, but his career was relatively short. Compare that to somebody like LeSean McCoy or LeVeon Bell. Physical runners, but you can never get a clean shot at them. Look at Alex Collins or Dennis Johnson. Rarely ever took a direct hit. Now, look at Dmac, he wanted to be the Hammer not the Nail. Injured his ribs playing here and we all know his injury statuses in the NFL.

Are you kidding me?  You do know Earl Campbell played eight years, right?

"Knowing what he knows now, would he have done things differently?

'Wish I had run out of bounds more, something like that?" he asks, gazing directly at his questioner. "No. Because then you wouldn't have Earl sitting here. You would have had somebody else.'"


Here's what Earl really thinks:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/super/2017/01/31/earl-campbell-super-bowl-li-51-houston-oilers-texas-running-back-pain-gain-pro-football-hall-of-fame/97258738/

As a side note, here are Earl's stats from Arkansas's only loss in 1977, a 13-9 loss to Texas in Fayetteville.  I was there, and but for EC Arkansas would have won the NC:

Campbell, Earl       34 carries 188 yards  5.5 ypc

Running backs have the shortest shelf life of any NFL player at 2.57 years:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/240102/average-player-career-length-in-the-national-football-league/

Running backs lead the NFL in injuries by far as a position group:

http://www.thefalcoholic.com/2010/7/7/1467728/which-nfl-position-groups-suffer

It's interesting that of all of the running backs you mentioned other than Marshall Faulk, only LeSean McCoy has played eight years, and he declared for the draft after his sophomore year at Pittsburgh.  Ay yi yi!!!  If EC could have done that in 1976, Arkansas would have won the NC in 1977!!! 

I'll give you credit for being hardheaded, but you're being obtuse.  if you think avoiding contact is the best way for kids to stay injury free in football, you're whistling Dixie. 
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The Kig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #253 on: May 12, 2017, 09:23:37 pm »

Do we need to separate you two girls?
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #254 on: May 13, 2017, 02:17:34 am »

You don't play football to get to work every morning on time. A car is a need.

I'm actually glad you missed my real point.

According to a recent study published by Stanford Student Health, baseball has the highest fatality rate for children aged 5-14, with 3-4 deaths occurring annually.  I've known three high school baseball players the last two years who had Tommy John surgery.  The only concussion I ever suffered was a serious concussion playing basketball.  I have painful arthtritus in my right elbow from pitching and had a laminectomy at 43 to repair a disk that ruptured after years of hitting thousands of golf balls.

This is not an indictment of other sports or sports in general.  Most team sports have some element of risk.  They also produce benefits.  Football is the funnest game I ever played, and nothing else was close.  Why deprive a kid who wants to play and loves the game of that experience? 

Thanks for saving me time.
Also, the kind of damage the OP is afraid of seems basically nonexistent until college, and even then extremely rare.  It appears that it doesn't begin to become a real risk until years of large men slamming together enters the equation from the things of read or seen.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2017, 02:49:03 am by SooiecidetillNuttgone »
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SooiecidetillNuttgone

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #255 on: May 13, 2017, 02:48:29 am »

Bp, please read


http://sportsnaut.com/2017/04/concussion-expert-youth-football-study-extent-child-brain-injuries-took-breath-away/

Just came out....

No statistics whatsoever.
A quote that sounds bad with no real context though.
A statement about 87 of 91 deceased NFL players had signs of the disease without mentioning that this wasn't a truly random sample but was instead a group composed of players who were erratic or suffering from the CTE symptoms before death thus stacking the deck.

I get your concerns.
You're the father, and only YOU will have to live with the consequences of deciding to let him play or not (your son will have to live with the consequences of getting to play or not).   In this sense, do what you think is best.

I don't however see the reasons for, as Phillips puts it, alarmist reactions to playing through high school.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #256 on: May 13, 2017, 11:14:52 am »

Do we need to separate you two girls?

No.  I am truly indebted to benny for the physics lesson.  In order to avoid a disservice to young players in the future, I'll ditch the theory of relativity analogy and show them these videos:


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The Kig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #257 on: May 13, 2017, 12:45:12 pm »

For all the arguments, very valid data supporting long term concussion injuries, hits like the Atwater video still represent why football remains my favorite sport.  Literally a thing of beauty that excite everyone not on the receiving end. 
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #258 on: May 13, 2017, 01:36:40 pm »

For all the arguments, very valid data supporting long term concussion injuries, hits like the Atwater video still represent why football remains my favorite sport.  Literally a thing of beauty that excite everyone not on the receiving end. 

Did you notice his head was up and his eyes were forward?
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The Kig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #259 on: May 13, 2017, 04:17:14 pm »

Did you notice his head was up and his eyes were forward?

Yep, solid hits aren't generally where concussions occur.  It's a helmet to the turf, against a knee, another helmet ...etc. 
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #260 on: May 13, 2017, 05:15:33 pm »

Yep, solid hits aren't generally where concussions occur.  It's a helmet to the turf, against a knee, another helmet ...etc. 

Yep.  Same with other sports, I think.  Mine was the result of the back of my head hitting the basketball court.  My son's was the result of the back of his head hitting the turf. 
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WorfHog

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #261 on: May 13, 2017, 05:24:24 pm »

I would, but I'd be really clear and honest about the potential risks. I think, from my experience at least, the good can outweigh the bad. I know I had at least one concussion over the course of my short career. Back then the coaches just told me to walk it off haha.

The NFL and college football need to be extremely proactive about this issue. We need to make the game as safe as possible. Rule changes and better equipment could go a long way to making parents feel better about their kids playing. If nothing is done the talent pool will simply become so limited that it won't be much fun to watch anymore.
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Coondog Hog

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #262 on: May 15, 2017, 11:31:30 pm »

My son is going to be 13 and weighs 85 lbs when he starts 7th grade. Football camp and August can't get here fast enough.
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TNRazorbacker

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #263 on: July 16, 2017, 07:48:20 am »

I would argue a lot of the equipment designed with honest intent to make the sport safer has had the opposite effect. It makes them too fearless, particularly the head and shoulder gear. Go back to padded leather on the head and shoulders and take off the face masks and see how many players continue to dive in full speed head and shoulders first.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #264 on: July 16, 2017, 08:48:08 am »

I would argue a lot of the equipment designed with honest intent to make the sport safer has had the opposite effect. It makes them too fearless, particularly the head and shoulder gear. Go back to padded leather on the head and shoulders and take off the face masks and see how many players continue to dive in full speed head and shoulders first.

Should we make them slower and 100 lbs lighter?  Because that is the huge difference in eras. We have high school kids coming out that are bigger and faster than the days they were wearing leather.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-player-size-over-time-2014-7
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nwahogfan1

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #266 on: July 16, 2017, 09:00:32 am »

I would let them play, but I would not push them to play.

Exactly.  That is the way it should work for all sports.  Let them decide.  All things we do have some risks.   Boys need an out let so guide them.
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TNRazorbacker

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #267 on: July 16, 2017, 10:44:28 am »

Should we make them slower and 100 lbs lighter?  Because that is the huge difference in eras. We have high school kids coming out that are bigger and faster than the days they were wearing leather.

http://www.businessinsider.com/nfl-player-size-over-time-2014-7

Definitely true of size, but I think this just exacerbates the fearlessness problem. To your point you can't really limit player size and speed. All you can do is try to limit the adverse effect it has on the number of injuries by modifying player behavior. Particularly with concussive brain injury the williningness of 300 pounders to crash into each other head first at high speed is probably the most pertinent factor, not the head gear.

An understanding of repetitive concussive injury, the biggest concern nowadays, is only just recently coming to light. There's very little you can place on your head to protect against this because it's caused by the brain crashing against the inside of the skull, not something external impacting the brain directly. It's the abrupt reversal of momentum that causes the damage not direct impact trauma. That said you could literally wear a tank on your head and still end up with a concussion, particularly if everyone else is wearing a tank.
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TNRazorbacker

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #268 on: July 16, 2017, 10:48:00 am »

so what will we do to prevent all the other type of injuries that happen in football besides concussions? 

https://www.google.com/amp/minnesota.cbslocal.com/2015/08/27/5-most-common-injuries-suffered-in-the-nfl/amp/


http://www.stopsportsinjuries.org/STOP/Prevent_Injuries/Football_Skating_Injury_Prevention.aspx

You won't prevent all injuries, but what concerns you more, your kid blowing out a knee or ending up with brain damage or a broken neck?
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #269 on: July 16, 2017, 10:54:22 am »

You won't prevent all injuries, but what concerns you more, your kid blowing out a knee or ending up with brain damage or a broken neck?

I understand what you are saying, but there is a huge difference in players today and the ones that had leather on them.  A HUGE difference.  There needs to be something more other than going backwards.  Can't put these guys in gear that was used in the 60s and 70s. Plus who knows what kind of injuries were going on back then. We didn't really start looking at concussions until recent. Hits to the head were probably going on even back then.  It's part of a extremely violent contact game.  People can do everything right and all it takes is a slip and instead of hitting at the chest you are drilling them in the head. 
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TNRazorbacker

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #270 on: July 16, 2017, 11:11:50 am »

I understand what you are saying, but there is a huge difference in players today and the ones that had leather on them.  A HUGE difference.  There needs to be something more other than going backwards.  Can't put these guys in gear that was used in the 60s and 70s. Plus who knows what kind of injuries were going on back then. We didn't really start looking at concussions until recent. Hits to the head were probably going on even back then.  It's part of a extremely violent contact game.  People can do everything right and all it takes is a slip and instead of hitting at the chest you are drilling them in the head.

Yes, I'm not advocating going thoughtlessly retro where protective gear is concerned. I just think it's worth evaluating.

I actually originally heard this mentioned as a factor in an article where Joe Paterno was speaking to it, one of the rare coaches that had coached long enough to notice the behavior differences the gear itself provoked. Several other former players were also mentioned. I've linked it below, not sure this was the original article I read but speaks to the same Paterno comments.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2010/10/paterno_lose_the_facemasks_to.html
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pignparadise

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #271 on: July 16, 2017, 11:30:47 am »

I did and would again. My son played football and lacrosse in high school. He had college scholarships in both. He chose Lacrosse and became a college All American. Now a successful sales manager for a tech  company,  he said that he learned so much about life in football and uses it every day in the successful management of his team.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #272 on: July 17, 2017, 09:42:44 am »

I understand what you are saying, but there is a huge difference in players today and the ones that had leather on them.  A HUGE difference.  There needs to be something more other than going backwards.  Can't put these guys in gear that was used in the 60s and 70s. Plus who knows what kind of injuries were going on back then. We didn't really start looking at concussions until recent. Hits to the head were probably going on even back then.  It's part of a extremely violent contact game.  People can do everything right and all it takes is a slip and instead of hitting at the chest you are drilling them in the head. 

Newer, better equipment is not going to stop the brain from sloshing around inside the skull, and that is what causes concussions. You can get a concussion on a textbook tackle if your head hits the ground hard. Many on field concussions involve no contact to the head by another player.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #273 on: July 17, 2017, 12:47:28 pm »

I'm gonna start him on youth football. Already working with him on blocking at almost 4. He thinks it's a fun game to pommel his old man while I'm sitting Indian style.

Whether or not he wants to play in middle school, JV or later is up to him.

Unfortunately, not any teams use a fullback nowadays.
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HF#1

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #274 on: July 17, 2017, 01:10:04 pm »

Nope. All it takes is someone not playing the right way or not using proper technique for them to be somewhat permanently damaged. I'll push my future son towards baseball or something.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #275 on: July 17, 2017, 01:10:17 pm »

I'm gonna start him on youth football. Already working with him on blocking at almost 4. He thinks it's a fun game to pommel his old man while I'm sitting Indian style.

Whether or not he wants to play in middle school, JV or later is up to him.

Unfortunately, not any teams use a fullback nowadays.

Yea cause most of the worst coaching and bad habits start with rinky dink and peewee football. Those are the coaches that all think they are NFL level.
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HF#1

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #276 on: July 17, 2017, 01:12:08 pm »

If you take the 31% that say no and apply it to a national scale, football will be dead in the not so distant future.
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Großer Kriegschwein

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #277 on: July 17, 2017, 01:32:07 pm »

Yea cause most of the worst coaching and bad habits start with rinky dink and peewee football. Those are the coaches that all think they are NFL level.

I retain right of refusal for crazy coaches.

Nope. All it takes is someone not playing the right way or not using proper technique for them to be somewhat permanently damaged. I'll push my future son towards baseball or something.

I will be the only one to coach my son if he plays baseball, especially if he's a catcher or pitcher.

I was the product of bad coaching. Did some damage to my shoulder from bad mechanics on the mound.
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bennyl08

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #278 on: July 17, 2017, 03:43:35 pm »

I understand what you are saying, but there is a huge difference in players today and the ones that had leather on them.  A HUGE difference.  There needs to be something more other than going backwards.  Can't put these guys in gear that was used in the 60s and 70s. Plus who knows what kind of injuries were going on back then. We didn't really start looking at concussions until recent. Hits to the head were probably going on even back then.  It's part of a extremely violent contact game.  People can do everything right and all it takes is a slip and instead of hitting at the chest you are drilling them in the head.

I think the best way to compare the potential impact is to compare and contrast injuries in rugby to american football. Rugby players have also benefited from the increased knowledge of nutrition and working out and have grown bigger in recent decades. However, they don't wear any padding. As such, while there are still big hits, they aren't as often made at full speed.

However,

http://www.brain-injury-law-center.com/latest-news/head-injuries-rugby-vs-football/

Catastrophic injuries as defined in the article are nearly 4 times more common in rugby. I wasn't able to skim through and find a direct comparison to head injuries, but concussions are still an issue in rugby as well.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #279 on: July 18, 2017, 10:00:56 am »

I think the best way to compare the potential impact is to compare and contrast injuries in rugby to american football. Rugby players have also benefited from the increased knowledge of nutrition and working out and have grown bigger in recent decades. However, they don't wear any padding. As such, while there are still big hits, they aren't as often made at full speed.

However,

http://www.brain-injury-law-center.com/latest-news/head-injuries-rugby-vs-football/

Catastrophic injuries as defined in the article are nearly 4 times more common in rugby. I wasn't able to skim through and find a direct comparison to head injuries, but concussions are still an issue in rugby as well.

Anytime you have humans running full speed and hitting each other there are going to be injuries to all parts of the body, including the head. The difference between rugby and Americna football is the repeated jarring of the brain. I can't find the report link but at a recent officials camp we had a section on head injuries. The 3 sports with the highest rates of concussions/head trauma/long term issues were American Football, Soccer, and boxing. The one thing all 3 had in common was repeated blows to the head and/or jarring of the head.
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McKdaddy

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #280 on: July 19, 2017, 12:47:53 pm »

I loved the melting pot of siociety that can be a lockeroom. I realize other places can also fulfill this role, but this was an area where fb really resonated.
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twistitup

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #281 on: July 21, 2017, 10:58:15 am »

http://usa.rhinorugby.com/rhino-rugby-senior-tackle-ring

Huge with H.S. teams in Texas....I'm assuming they are being used nationwide. This is a way to eliminate too many head shots in practive, lessen chance of injury, teach tackling, etc...

Inventions like this might help improve the safety of football.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #282 on: July 21, 2017, 11:00:37 am »

http://usa.rhinorugby.com/rhino-rugby-senior-tackle-ring

Huge with H.S. teams in Texas....I'm assuming they are being used nationwide. This is a way to eliminate too many head shots in practive, lessen chance of injury, teach tackling, etc...

Inventions like this might help improve the safety of football.

There is no doubt ways to lessen the risk, especially from repeated actions. But they are never going to take the risk of head injury out of the game.

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Surfing8

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #283 on: July 21, 2017, 11:08:53 am »

Out here in CA soccer and baseball both dwarf football across the full youth age spectrum. 
Football still represents fairly well in the Inland Empire and Central Valley regions, where the general demographic is lower income. 

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311Hog

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #284 on: July 21, 2017, 11:13:03 am »

Out here in CA soccer and baseball both dwarf football across the full youth age spectrum. 
Football still represents fairly well in the Inland Empire and Central Valley regions, where the general demographic is lower income. 



Sad also that a significant number of the public in the inland empire do not even believe Californians are humans, and are quiet content banging their heads against the wall with a smile on their faces....
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 02:54:09 pm by 311Hog »
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #285 on: July 21, 2017, 01:43:01 pm »

Out here in CA soccer and baseball both dwarf football across the full youth age spectrum. 
Football still represents fairly well in the Inland Empire and Central Valley regions, where the general demographic is lower income. 



I help with a local fall baseball league and we have seen our numbers double this year in the age group where we used to lose kids to football.
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BigoBoys

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #286 on: July 25, 2017, 02:38:02 pm »

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oldhawg

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #287 on: July 25, 2017, 02:58:55 pm »

Sad also that a significant number of the public in the inland empire do not even believe Californians are humans, and are quiet content banging their heads against the wall with a smile on their faces....

Sad only if you are not a soccer and baseball fan.
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