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Knowing what we know now - would you let your kid play football?

yes
no
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #100 on: May 09, 2017, 03:46:31 pm »

Oh this school was built last year?  i knew they couldn't keep from adding at least another campus for to much longer they were bulging at the seams with kids

And B-ville west is horrible at every sport because they let the jrs and srs stay at b-ville high, BUT in another year or two we are likely to see what happened in springdale when they built har-ber. After the 1st couple of years, har-ber dominates and s-dale high is horrible in just about every sport.
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Carl Lazlo

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #101 on: May 09, 2017, 04:56:22 pm »

I'd tell him if he wants to play do it with a reckless abandon. 
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sevenof400

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #102 on: May 09, 2017, 06:06:13 pm »

I have girls so I won't likely have to make the decision.

Futbol has many of these same concerns and especially for girls with respect to head injuries and ACL's. 
Are your daughters old enough to play yet?   
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #103 on: May 09, 2017, 06:23:24 pm »

When I was a young buck, I always said any son of mine would play football, no doubt about it.  When I had a son and he got old enough to play, I got lucky because he went to a small school that didn't have football.  I say lucky because I began having second thoughts as I watched him grow up.  I guess it boils down to this.....what is more significant to you, watching your son score the winning touchdown or watching him get carted off the field?  The older I got, the more my belief shifted to the latter.

He did become a heck of a baseball player though.
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ricepig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #104 on: May 09, 2017, 06:36:13 pm »

When I was a young buck, I always said any son of mine would play football, no doubt about it.  When I had a son and he got old enough to play, I got lucky because he went to a small school that didn't have football.  I say lucky because I began having second thoughts as I watched him grow up.  I guess it boils down to this.....what is more significant to you, watching your son score the winning touchdown or watching him get carted off the field?  The older I got, the more my belief shifted to the latter.

He did become a heck of a baseball player though.

I guess I don't understand the hesitation on allowing them to play, but to each his own. My oldest played from the 5th grade on, although baseball was his better sport, and the only injury he had in high school was a sore back from baseball. My youngest when he was little dreamed every day of playing for the Hogs. When he was 9, it was discovered through some limping that the growth plate was dead above his left ankle. We've had to break his ankle a couple of times to do some work, and last year had to take out the growth plate in his good leg to slow it's growth down. He played baseball from 9yr old to 8th grade ball, and football in the 7th, but he's realized he's not going to be 6'3" like his older brother or me, and has become a scratch golfer. He still talks about football, but realizes at 5'9", and 130lbs, he won't be too good as a 10th grader in 6A football. So, you never know, what will or won't sideline you, or cause an injury.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #105 on: May 09, 2017, 06:42:31 pm »

I guess I don't understand the hesitation on allowing them to play, but to each his own. My oldest played from the 5th grade on, although baseball was his better sport, and the only injury he had in high school was a sore back from baseball. My youngest when he was little dreamed every day of playing for the Hogs. When he was 9, it was discovered through some limping that the growth plate was dead above his left ankle. We've had to break his ankle a couple of times to do some work, and last year had to take out the growth plate in his good leg to slow it's growth down. He played baseball from 9yr old to 8th grade ball, and football in the 7th, but he's realized he's not going to be 6'3" like his older brother or me, and has become a scratch golfer. He still talks about football, but realizes at 5'9", and 130lbs, he won't be too good as a 10th grader in 6A football. So, you never know, what will or won't sideline you, or cause an injury.

Don't get me wrong, had he gone to a school with football (would have been Sylvan Hills) I would have supported him and been his biggest cheerleader.  But I think there would have always been just that little bit of concern about injury and since he was so into baseball, it all worked out fine.  I think he would have been a good football player, but he had a one-track baseball mind.
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oldhawg

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #106 on: May 09, 2017, 06:57:51 pm »

In our case, it's all been said and done already.  And frankly, I am glad that our son started playing soccer at the age of five and played through college and beyond.  Soccer is not without its risks, but nothing compared to football. 

Oh, and I did play football myself through high school, and was lucky to have experienced only sprains, a deep hip-pointer, and a dislocated shoulder. (ouch). 

Also, my wife and I became knowledgeable, avid soccer fans. Even now we pick our favorites and watch World Cup, European Cup, and America Cup (Copa America) competition enthusiastically.  My son (now in his mid-thirties) and I are planning a trip to the next World Cup in Russia.  Doesn't matter what games we attend, the competition will be intense, and being there will be enjoyable.

Sorry, kinda got off track. I will step down off my soccer stand now, since so many turn there nose up at the sport.

However, if I ever have a grandson, I don't think I would want him to play football.  Although if he did, I would be right there cheering him on.
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luke hawg

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #107 on: May 09, 2017, 09:38:18 pm »

I'd let my kid play for Bret Bielema
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #108 on: May 09, 2017, 09:40:35 pm »

I guess I don't understand the hesitation on allowing them to play, but to each his own. My oldest played from the 5th grade on, although baseball was his better sport, and the only injury he had in high school was a sore back from baseball. My youngest when he was little dreamed every day of playing for the Hogs. When he was 9, it was discovered through some limping that the growth plate was dead above his left ankle. We've had to break his ankle a couple of times to do some work, and last year had to take out the growth plate in his good leg to slow it's growth down. He played baseball from 9yr old to 8th grade ball, and football in the 7th, but he's realized he's not going to be 6'3" like his older brother or me, and has become a scratch golfer. He still talks about football, but realizes at 5'9", and 130lbs, he won't be too good as a 10th grader in 6A football. So, you never know, what will or won't sideline you, or cause an injury.

5'9" 130 is the perfect size for golf.  And he can play til he's 80.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #109 on: May 09, 2017, 09:44:03 pm »

I'd tell him if he wants to play do it with a reckless abandon. 


^^^^^
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dsgreen

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #110 on: May 09, 2017, 11:28:57 pm »

I would be fine with just about any sport, but I would definitely try to discourage from playing football. It's definitely the most dangerous in terms of long term impact and CTE.  Even if you're not getting visibly injured or medically diagnosed concussions, there is a lot of damage happening, especially on the offensive line, which is where a son of mine would likely play.
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ricepig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #111 on: May 10, 2017, 06:44:13 am »

5'9" 130 is the perfect size for golf.  And he can play til he's 80.

Well, hopefully he's still growing some. When the surgeon removed his good growth plate last October after the state golf tournament, he said he had another 2"-3" of growing left. And shoot, why quit at 80, my Dad played until he was 92.
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Peter Porker

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Re: Would you let you kid play football?
« Reply #112 on: May 10, 2017, 06:48:49 am »

When I was 15 years old, I was in off season basketball practice and slammed head first into the concrete wall underneath the goal (before there were protections pads). Long story short I had a brain bleed and was sent to ICU at Children's Hospital in Little Rock. The bleed finally stopped and I ended up alright. It was a complete freak accident but they do happen in all sports. I continued playing basketball all the way through my senior year knowing the risk of it happening again and causing more damage and it never did. Moral of the story accidents happen no matter the sport, it's just taking a risk. I will let me boys play if they want to, but, will make them aware of the possibilities of getting hurt.

I do not believe children can grasp the long term effects of the damage created. My 8 year old wants to play so badly but the risks are too great. Just not worth it. There are other sports where the risk aren't nearly as great.
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riccoar

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #113 on: May 10, 2017, 06:49:51 am »

5'9" 130 is the perfect size for golf.  And he can play til he's 80.
If he stays away from porn stars when he becomes great, yes.  All kidding aside, let your children be themselves and experience life.  Don't push them to it, but never hold them back from it.
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Peter Porker

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #114 on: May 10, 2017, 06:52:15 am »

I live in Cabot. I will not allow my son to play until Jr High School (the Manning model) after the abomination of how little league football is handled in Cabot.  They had seven year olds moved up to play with 10 year olds in order to have the numbers necessary.  No thanks.

Each story is different, but my son will play football once proper coaching is more available.

Cabot resident as well. Yea, Cabot youth football is bad for kids.
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Peter Porker

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #115 on: May 10, 2017, 06:54:42 am »

All of you that have, or will later in this thread, point out accidents in basketball and cheer leading, and baseball and tiddly winks, those are accidents. Most basketball games see no one need to be helped off the court. It is rare for a football game in 7th grade or higher to not have at least one injury bad enough during play to require the player to be helped off the field. My kid played in a baseball tourney over the weekend, and not one player was injured in 13 games in his age group.

Football injuries are not usually freak accidents, they a a direct result of the fact that football is a collision sport. The post above about hitting their head on the concrete wall under the goal in a basketball game was a freak injury. I played 6 yrs in jrhs/hs and then 4 more in intramurals in college, and 3 after that in a competitive weekly rec league and never once was injured and only saw two broken bones in all that time, saw a broken collar bone from 2 guys colliding going for a loose ball, and a kid stepped on a foot and broke his ankle.

Last year I reffed about 40 football games from 6th grade through sr hs. Saw 3 kids have to be taken to the hospital immediately from the game, one with a head injury, one with a broken arm and another with a broken leg. I called over 100 basketball games, not one injury that even required the coach or trainer to come on the court. I've done about 50 baseball games so far this year, not one injury.

To the OP, would I let my kid play football, yes, if they wanted to. My oldest, about to graduate, played as a 7th grader. He played a lot ( ol and lb ) coaches were impressed with him, but he did not play in 8th grade because he didn't want to play again. My youngest is 14, 6'2 160 and has no desire to play football, and I am fine with that too.

Tommy?

If you know the risk and have seen it firsthand, why in the world would you allow your child to participate?
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ricepig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #116 on: May 10, 2017, 07:02:28 am »

  All kidding aside, let your children be themselves and experience life.  Don't push them to it, but never hold them back from it.

This^^^^^  100%    As to push them to it, taking them to Razorback games from an early age seems borderline "pushing" them, haha.

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DeltaBoy

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #117 on: May 10, 2017, 08:24:20 am »

I have girls so I won't likely have to make the decision.

Watch out for Girls sports and Cheer-leading they get things broken , bruised , tweaked and concussions.  We had a girl in Cheer that had to quit due to hitting her head once on the track during Jr High. 
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factchecker

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #118 on: May 10, 2017, 08:31:04 am »

Watch out for Girls sports and Cheer-leading they get things broken , bruised , tweaked and concussions.  We had a girl in Cheer that had to quit due to hitting her head once on the track during Jr High.

You are correct:



http://infographicsmania.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Cheerleaders-Fly-High-And-So-Do-Their-Risks-Infographic-infographicsmania.jpg
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #119 on: May 10, 2017, 08:36:43 am »

Tommy?

If you know the risk and have seen it firsthand, why in the world would you allow your child to participate?

I've seen baseball players tear up elbows, and basketball players tear up ankles, and as I said earlier my left shoulder is junk from playing golf. My point about football is those who claim it is no more dangerous than anything else are just wrong. It is easy for me to say I would let my kids play because my oldest is graduating hs, and my youngest shows no interest in playing football ( which drives the coaches at school crazy due to his size ) so i do not have to face that decision. IF my 14 yr old came to us and said he wanted to play football next year, my stance might very well change.
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BigE_23

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #120 on: May 10, 2017, 11:04:33 am »

Here's what I can't comprehend from the arguments contained throughout this thread from those in favor of letting your child participate in football...everyone keeps talking about ankles, elbows, shoulders, knees, etc. from other sports injuries and trying to compare the risks with football.

We're talking about your child's BRAIN. There is literally no comparison to any other sport.

We're not talking about injuries that cause you to wake up with soreness on a cold day. We're talking about potentially not being able to walk, talk, think, or learn. We're talking about stuff that could potentially impact your child's quality of life FOREVER.

I'm not willing to allow my son to take that gamble. I'm not implying that this somehow makes me a better parent than someone who let's their child play football...but I do think it makes me a more informed one.

I don't think my son's life will be less enjoyable IF he doesn't play football, but there is a risk that his life could be severely hindered BECAUSE he played football.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #121 on: May 10, 2017, 12:10:55 pm »

Here's what I can't comprehend from the arguments contained throughout this thread from those in favor of letting your child participate in football...everyone keeps talking about ankles, elbows, shoulders, knees, etc. from other sports injuries and trying to compare the risks with football.

We're talking about your child's BRAIN. There is literally no comparison to any other sport.

We're not talking about injuries that cause you to wake up with soreness on a cold day. We're talking about potentially not being able to walk, talk, think, or learn. We're talking about stuff that could potentially impact your child's quality of life FOREVER.

I'm not willing to allow my son to take that gamble. I'm not implying that this somehow makes me a better parent than someone who let's their child play football...but I do think it makes me a more informed one.

I don't think my son's life will be less enjoyable IF he doesn't play football, but there is a risk that his life could be severely hindered BECAUSE he played football.

Anyone who does not see the head trauma on a different level than the other injuries just does not want to deal with it. There is no comparison. I have umpired literally a thousand games and never seen one head injury. The 2nd football game I ever called had 2 kids take head shots so hard they could not stand up, and a 3rd got up and went to the wrong bench.

But even the other injuries are worse and far more numerous in football.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #122 on: May 10, 2017, 12:21:54 pm »

Here's what I can't comprehend from the arguments contained throughout this thread from those in favor of letting your child participate in football...everyone keeps talking about ankles, elbows, shoulders, knees, etc. from other sports injuries and trying to compare the risks with football.

We're talking about your child's BRAIN. There is literally no comparison to any other sport.

We're not talking about injuries that cause you to wake up with soreness on a cold day. We're talking about potentially not being able to walk, talk, think, or learn. We're talking about stuff that could potentially impact your child's quality of life FOREVER.

I'm not willing to allow my son to take that gamble. I'm not implying that this somehow makes me a better parent than someone who let's their child play football...but I do think it makes me a more informed one.

I don't think my son's life will be less enjoyable IF he doesn't play football, but there is a risk that his life could be severely hindered BECAUSE he played football.

Do you believe everything you read or do you form your opinions based upon your observations and common sense?

If I knew anyone who I thought was any less intelligent for having played football, I wouldn't have let my son play.  But I don't.

I had dinner last night with 7 men after we painted the field for a Spring football game.  One played football at Brown and is CEO for United Healthcare.  One is the brother of Arkansas All-American Jim Mabry.  He played at MTSU and is in pharmaceutical sales.  His son is committed to Notre Dame.  Another was Jim Bob Harris.  Jim Bob played free safety at Alabama and is now an executive with 3M.  Some of you might remember his interception near the end of Alabama's 24-9 victory over Arkansas in the 1980 Sugar Bowl.  The restt of us played for many years and have successful careers.  We're all in our fifties or older.  Another guy's son got an offer from Army yesterday.  While I was typing this my son texted me and said he has two letters today from Cornell.  He can add those to the letters from Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Brown.  He'll be at their camps in June.

Frank Broyles played football in a leather helmet with no facemask.  So did my grandfather who was an engineer.  Chuck Dicus, Jim Lindsey, Jerry Jones, Quinn Grovey - how many examples of successful, brilliant men do you need to see before you realize that there is not a great risk of life altering brain damage from playing football?  Aches and pains in old age, maybe.  You're gonna have 'em anyway.  Best way to avoid them is to stay active. 

Jim Bob Harris told me last year that most of the executives he has seen hired over the years at 3M have one of two things on their resume - college athletics or military experience.  I respect parents who won't let their kids play football out of fear of brain damage, but I think they're alarmists who ignore the clear evidence that football's benefits far outweigh the risks of that happening.
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twistitup

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #123 on: May 10, 2017, 12:36:49 pm »

Do you believe everything you read or do you form your opinions based upon your observations and common sense?

If I knew anyone who I thought was any less intelligent for having played football, I wouldn't have let my son play.  But I don't.

I had dinner last night with 7 men after we painted the field for a Spring football game.  One played football at Brown and is CEO for United Healthcare.  One is the brother of Arkansas All-American Jim Mabry.  He played at MTSU and is in pharmaceutical sales.  His son is committed to Notre Dame.  Another was Jim Bob Harris.  Jim Bob played free safety at Alabama and is now an executive with 3M.  Some of you might remember his interception near the end of Alabama's 24-9 victory over Arkansas in the 1980 Sugar Bowl.  The restt of us played for many years and have successful careers.  We're all in our fifties or older.  Another guy's son got an offer from Army yesterday.  While I was typing this my son texted me and said he has two letters today from Cornell.  He can add those to the letters from Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Brown.  He'll be at their camps in June.

Frank Broyles played football in a leather helmet with no facemask.  So did my grandfather who was an engineer.  Chuck Dicus, Jim Lindsey, Jerry Jones, Quinn Grovey - how many examples of successful, brilliant men do you need to see before you realize that there is not a great risk of life altering brain damage from playing football?  Aches and pains in old age, maybe.  You're gonna have 'em anyway.  Best way to avoid them is to stay active. 

Jim Bob Harris told me last year that most of the executives he has seen hired over the years at 3M have one of two things on their resume - college athletics or military experience.  I respect parents who won't let their kids play football out of fear of brain damage, but I think they're alarmists who ignore the clear evidence that football's benefits far outweigh the risks of that happening.

I base my opinions on more than just a few business success stories coming from ex football players.....there are far more examples of those crippled from the sport.

I love football, but let's not put our head in the sand
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #124 on: May 10, 2017, 12:40:01 pm »

Yes but then Al Bundy is my example. It will improve your sons sex life 67%. JK
real answer is I don't know as I have all girls. One of which has had to quit cheer cuz of knee and back injuries. Also had to quit competitive dance for the same reasons. Nearly all of her cheer friends have injuries they obtained during cheer n dance. Most of her friends injuries started out minor but ended much more serious as the reinjuries kept happening. Lots ended in knee/ankle surgeries. Some just chronic pain,all the time. The ones still in it stay cuz of peer/ego problems. They can't let go of their social status. Parents get caught up in that also.IE Some poor parenting is going on in the dance/cheer worlds. I have made mine get out of it and it was a major fight. She has since had back surgery and prolly shud have knee surgery. I made lots of parents/coaches/instructors/teachers so mad they have taken me out of their circles of which I was apart for 12 years. Oh well!
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #125 on: May 10, 2017, 12:40:18 pm »

Do you believe everything you read or do you form your opinions based upon your observations and common sense?

If I knew anyone who I thought was any less intelligent for having played football, I wouldn't have let my son play.  But I don't.

I had dinner last night with 7 men after we painted the field for a Spring football game.  One played football at Brown and is CEO for United Healthcare.  One is the brother of Arkansas All-American Jim Mabry.  He played at MTSU and is in pharmaceutical sales.  His son is committed to Notre Dame.  Another was Jim Bob Harris.  Jim Bob played free safety at Alabama and is now an executive with 3M.  Some of you might remember his interception near the end of Alabama's 24-9 victory over Arkansas in the 1980 Sugar Bowl.  The restt of us played for many years and have successful careers.  We're all in our fifties or older.  Another guy's son got an offer from Army yesterday.  While I was typing this my son texted me and said he has two letters today from Cornell.  He can add those to the letters from Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Brown.  He'll be at their camps in June.

Frank Broyles played football in a leather helmet with no facemask.  So did my grandfather who was an engineer.  Chuck Dicus, Jim Lindsey, Jerry Jones, Quinn Grovey - how many examples of successful, brilliant men do you need to see before you realize that there is not a great risk of life altering brain damage from playing football?  Aches and pains in old age, maybe.  You're gonna have 'em anyway.  Best way to avoid them is to stay active. 

Jim Bob Harris told me last year that most of the executives he has seen hired over the years at 3M have one of two things on their resume - college athletics or military experience.  I respect parents who won't let their kids play football out of fear of brain damage, but I think they're alarmists who ignore the clear evidence that football's benefits far outweigh the risks of that happening.

And most guys who want to downplay the head injury part have a couple things in common. They are older and grew up playing in a time when the answer to everything was run it off, coaches didn't let you have water during practice, and/or they think football is the highest test of manhood  short of going into armed combat.

No one is saying that playing football does not have some benefits to some people, quite the opposite has been acknowledged by many in this thread. But many of the things people point to - mental toughness, team work, etc - can be found in other sports where you are not colliding with other large humans over and over and over, day after day after day.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #126 on: May 10, 2017, 12:42:25 pm »

Yes but then Al Bundy is my example. It will improve your sons sex life 67%. JK
real answer is I don't know as I have all girls. One of which has had to quit cheer cuz of knee and back injuries. Also had to quit competitive dance for the same reasons. Nearly all of her cheer friends have injuries they obtained during cheer n dance. Most of her friends injuries started out minor but ended much more serious as the reinjuries kept happening. Lots ended in knee/ankle surgeries. Some just chronic pain,all the time. The ones still in it stay cuz of peer/ego problems. They can't let go of their social status. Parents get caught up in that also.IE Some poor parenting is going on in the dance/cheer worlds. I have made mine get out of it and it was a major fight. She has since had back surgery and prolly shud have knee surgery. I made lots of parents/coaches/instructors/teachers so mad they have taken me out of their circles of which I was apart for 12 years. Oh well!

cheer parents and girls softball parents are another level of crazy that I am glad, since I have 2 boys, I get to view from afar. But none of those injuries you mention will impact your child's brain function.
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ricepig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #127 on: May 10, 2017, 12:50:15 pm »

I base my opinions on more than just a few business success stories coming from ex football players.....there are far more examples of those crippled from the sport.

I love football, but let's not put our head in the sand

So, you're saying there are more crippled up football players leaving high school, than not? I'd have to see evidence on that, my observations from playing and watching our local high school the past 30 years wouldn't support that. Now, I realize you were talking about ex-college or NFL players, but how many make it that far?
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sickboy

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #128 on: May 10, 2017, 12:50:51 pm »

This is an interesting debate on multiple levels. It's deeply rooted in fandom and male masculinity. It's one of those conversations that will always be divided. For a lot of men, sacrificing your body for football, even a game, is psychologically akin to a soldier sacrificing his life for his country. It's a barometer for how tough you are and how willing you are to achieve a goal. It's about mental and physical toughness, as well as your makeup as an individual. It makes the conversation even more complicated in that football has now, in all likelihood, become America's game. So masculinity, self sacrifice and American identity are all interwoven into this conversation.

At the end of the day, this conversation will continue as long as men, young and old, feel the need to benchmark their male identity through trials of physical endurance. And I'm guessing that's not going to stop for a very, very long time.
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Hogs-n-Roses

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #129 on: May 10, 2017, 01:02:30 pm »

cheer parents and girls softball parents are another level of crazy that I am glad, since I have 2 boys, I get to view from afar. But none of those injuries you mention will impact your child's brain function.
I agree but they do impact my brain function and that got muches better when I made the right parenting move and got her out of it. 2 years down the road and both of us are of the same mindset. Now she agrees that it was overly dangerous for her and the peer pressures she was going thru with those ruthless egos(both the athletes and parents) are much less this way than being involved. I had no idea what all she had been going thru. God works in mysterious ways.
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BigE_23

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #130 on: May 10, 2017, 01:10:15 pm »

Do you believe everything you read or do you form your opinions based upon your observations and common sense?

Why does it have to be either/or? Why can't it be both/and??

The stuff I'm reading is coming from scientific research conducted by the leading researchers in their field.

Common sense tells me that the players from the leather-head era weren't the athletes that we see today or even in the last 25-30 years. Frank Broyles didn't play football with freaks of nature that weigh 230+ lbs and run the forty in 4.5 seconds. Just using what little common sense I have, I would guess that for every 5000 Jim Harris millionaire success stories, there's a paralyzed Eric Lagrand. Common sense tells me that the game is progressing faster than the science can keep up with and the athletes are getting stronger and faster at younger ages...so things are going to get worse before they get better.

What I see happening on a regular basis is some horror story of a former NFL player losing his mind and killing people before he then kills himself, or a Junior Seau-type suicide...then we find out that the families of these men donated their brains to scientific studies that in turn reveal that these guys have the signs of massive head trauma resulting from football.

I'm happy for your boy...I really am. Congratulations to you and your family! (no sarcasm I mean that sincerely)

But what about the family in Ohio that buried their son last year after a football related head injury during a HS game? Or the family in Texas? Or Louisiana? These weren't all-American athletes who got injured in high-impact D1 games...these were just ordinary HS kids playing the same game I grew up playing. One of those deaths resulted from an injury in a JV game. We can't ignore the science or what's happening right in front of our faces. To do so rejects common sense.

I'm going to mess up a lot as a parent...I know this because I already have, but I'm going to continue to do my best to protect both of my beautiful kids. I'm not going to insulate myself from reality. Hopefully and by God's grace, I can be both informed and exercise common sense.
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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #131 on: May 10, 2017, 02:02:12 pm »

I base my opinions on more than just a few business success stories coming from ex football players.....there are far more examples of those crippled from the sport.

I love football, but let's not put our head in the sand

Dude - you're one of my favorite posters.  Always witty, and you know the game when you're serious.  But that is just pure nonsense.  We can all agree that players are crippled by football every year.  BUT - the numbers of those who play and go on to long, productive, happy lives FAR outnumber those who are crippled.  If major, life-altering injuries were the norm in football, no one would play it.  But they're not.  They are RARE!!!

Anyone with Google can find plenty of articles like these:

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/schooled_in_sports/2012/12/long-term_brain_damage_found_in_six_former_hs_football_players.html

It doesn't take a study like this one to know that concussions are bad.  Multiple concussions are worse.  Concussions occurring before the brain recovers from a previous concussion are very dangerous.  Football increases the risk of concussions.  Therefore, football is bad.  Right?  Maybe.  About 30% of respondents to this poll appear to agree. 

Do the benefits of football outweigh the risk?  For me that's the question.  Maybe rice is right.  My son went to his first football game (Titans) before he could walk and has been to 100 since.  He went to his first Razorbacks game when he was about 5.  I spend Saturdays in front of the television watching college football.  It's obvious from my history here that I'm a Razorbacks fanatic.  I never once said, "Matthew - you should play football", but is it any wonder he started pestering me to play at the age of 5?  Am I sorry thus far he's played?  No.  I've never seen any indication that he doesn't love it.  He spends hours with his friends picking fantasy teams and keeping up with them. He's healthy, is in top condition, is very conscious of his nutrition, hangs out with a great group of teammates, and makes exceptionally good grades.  He volunteers regularly.  He visits the elderly.  He plays basketball with mentally challenged kids.  He feeds the homeless once a month.  All of that is part of his football culture.  If he suffers a life-threatening injury from the game I will not know what to do.  But seeing what football has meant to him for ten years, I would let him play again in a heartbeat.

I would also argue that football, and athletic scholarships in general, have improved the quality of life and communities for minorities.  I have to believe that based on numbers only, football has accounted for more college degrees from athletic scholarships than any other sport.  It creates many jobs.  I went recently to a fundraiser where the Titans raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for the Make a Wish Foundation.  I talked to several of them that night.  I've represented half a dozen NFL players over the years.  To a person, they were all clear-headed, intelligent, well-educated people. 

I understand the risk.  It is there.  What I don't understand is hyperbole and alarmists with an agenda who are more opposed to the violence of the game itself and use the risk of injury to mask their real problem with the game, which is the violence.  Not suggesting you're one of those, but many are.  Football is a violent game, but the violence itself is not driven by the intent to harm.  It is driven by the nature of the game.  You hit hard within the rules and shake hands when it's over.  During the game you have fun.  It's unlike anything else you'll ever experience.  Maybe it's not that way for everyone, but for the few who are fortunate enough to run through the "A", I'll guarantee you it is. 

I simply can't understand why a parent would prohibit a child from participating in a sport they're passionate about.  I can understand limiting it by age.  But to forbid them to play at all anytime is a disservice to the child.  They can only play while they're under your control.  The window closes quickly for team sports.  As my daughter says "YOLO".         

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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #132 on: May 10, 2017, 02:10:59 pm »

This is an interesting debate on multiple levels. It's deeply rooted in fandom and male masculinity. It's one of those conversations that will always be divided. For a lot of men, sacrificing your body for football, even a game, is psychologically akin to a soldier sacrificing his life for his country. It's a barometer for how tough you are and how willing you are to achieve a goal. It's about mental and physical toughness, as well as your makeup as an individual. It makes the conversation even more complicated in that football has now, in all likelihood, become America's game. So masculinity, self sacrifice and American identity are all interwoven into this conversation.

At the end of the day, this conversation will continue as long as men, young and old, feel the need to benchmark their male identity through trials of physical endurance. And I'm guessing that's not going to stop for a very, very long time.

So far I've avoided the philosophical, but you're right to some extent.  But you can present your thesis in a way that carries a positive or negative connotation.  You also ignore the game itself.  Do men play football to prove their masculinity, or do they play it to develop their masculinity and because they love the game itself?

A similar question is this - why is football America's game?  Why do communities take pride in victory?  Why do residents of Michigan care whether the Wolverines beat Ohio State?  Is football, and college football in particular, a surrogate for the kind of real battles that destroy life and property?  To some extent maybe it is.  Does that make it bad?   
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311Hog

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #133 on: May 10, 2017, 02:14:38 pm »

So far I've avoided the philosophical, but you're right to some extent.  But you can present your thesis in a way that carries a positive or negative connotation.  You also ignore the game itself.  Do men play football to prove their masculinity, or do they play it to develop their masculinity and because they love the game itself?

A similar question is this - why is football America's game?  Why do communities take pride in victory?  Why do residents of Michigan care whether the Wolverines beat Ohio State?  Is football, and college football in particular, a surrogate for the kind of real battles that destroy life and property?  To some extent maybe it is.  Does that make it bad?   

it makes it good and bad.  I think that is what this thread is about.  for so long no one questioned the health risks of football.  Mainly because so many were led to believe that the only real risks were of the non brain variety.  So people were like " you can break your leg anywhere doing anything".  But only the last decade or so as players have literally shot themselves in the chest in the hopes of having their brain tested for a god aweful disease because the "powers that be" did not want to spend the $$$ or risk losing the $$$.

You can both love football as i do i have done all the things you mentioned, and realize that someone(s) did some messed up stuff in hiding the effects of CTE.  And i am messed up about that enough to possibly not encourage my son to play if he doesn't want to, in the end we are all responsible for our choices, it is just preferable to actually know what you are choosing when you do it.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #134 on: May 10, 2017, 02:19:49 pm »


I simply can't understand why a parent would prohibit a child from participating in a sport they're passionate about.  I can understand limiting it by age.  But to forbid them to play at all anytime is a disservice to the child.  They can only play while they're under your control.  The window closes quickly for team sports.  As my daughter says "YOLO".         



What age are we talking about them being passionate about it? 5? 7? 9? 11? My 5 yr old was "passionate" about being a fireman, but we didn't let him go around fighting fires ( yes I realize that is an extreme reach ). We prohibit kids from driving and riding motorcycles until they are old enough. We prohibit them from doing lots of things because they are dangerous.

ON your point about scholarships - there are 3250 ( 130 schools 25 each ) fbs level scholarships awarded for football each year. Throw in the fcs and lets be real generous and make it 7K total. in a decade thats only 10k scholarships in a sport that is played annually by over 1mil players at the 11 man high school level. Break that down by class and thats approx 250k hs srs each yr playing 11 man football. in a 10 yr span thats 2.5 mil of which 70k, at the most, get football scholarships. Thats 3%.
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twistitup

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #135 on: May 10, 2017, 02:36:04 pm »

So, you're saying there are more crippled up football players leaving high school, than not? I'd have to see evidence on that, my observations from playing and watching our local high school the past 30 years wouldn't support that. Now, I realize you were talking about ex-college or NFL players, but how many make it that far?

I would love to see study that tracks the number of  hs football players that still have lingering injuries after graduating...

Would be interesting....

On another note, shouldnt the school cover the cost of those surgeries if directly related to playing for the school?

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bphi11ips

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #136 on: May 10, 2017, 03:09:23 pm »

What age are we talking about them being passionate about it? 5? 7? 9? 11? My 5 yr old was "passionate" about being a fireman, but we didn't let him go around fighting fires ( yes I realize that is an extreme reach ). We prohibit kids from driving and riding motorcycles until they are old enough. We prohibit them from doing lots of things because they are dangerous.

ON your point about scholarships - there are 3250 ( 130 schools 25 each ) fbs level scholarships awarded for football each year. Throw in the fcs and lets be real generous and make it 7K total. in a decade thats only 10k scholarships in a sport that is played annually by over 1mil players at the 11 man high school level. Break that down by class and thats approx 250k hs srs each yr playing 11 man football. in a 10 yr span thats 2.5 mil of which 70k, at the most, get football scholarships. Thats 3%.

The actual number of high school football players who attend college on a football scholarship is less than 2% based on a study I saw recently.  But that isn't the point.  The point is that, over time, the number of minority athletes who have earned college degrees from football scholarships has improved minority communities. 

I already said my son begged to play when he was 5.  His mother and I refused to let him play until he was 8.  I started playing at 8 and so did a lot of my friends.  A lot of Matthew's teammates here started at 5.  Some of the best did, in fact.  I think Rawleigh Williams started at 5.  I happen to think that's too early, but not because of the risk of injury as much as because I don't think 5 year olds are emotionally ready to put on pads and hit each other.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #138 on: May 10, 2017, 03:39:17 pm »

The actual number of high school football players who attend college on a football scholarship is less than 2% based on a study I saw recently.  But that isn't the point.  The point is that, over time, the number of minority athletes who have earned college degrees from football scholarships has improved minority communities. 

I already said my son begged to play when he was 5.  His mother and I refused to let him play until he was 8.  I started playing at 8 and so did a lot of my friends.  A lot of Matthew's teammates here started at 5.  Some of the best did, in fact.  I think Rawleigh Williams started at 5.  I happen to think that's too early, but not because of the risk of injury as much as because I don't think 5 year olds are emotionally ready to put on pads and hit each other.

The scholarship angle just does not fly. While a fbs school gives out 25, at most, football scholarships annually, they give out hundreds of academic scholarships, and that does not even count the financial aid available from private and public groups. So, instead of pinning their hopes of college on a long shot chance at a athletic scholarship, they could invest that time in academics.

% is way too young. 8, imo is too young. I do not think, in a sport where everyone will agree that proper technique is paramount to avoiding some serious injuries, that kids should play tackle outside the realm of school ball. Most, not all mind you, but most youth league coaches just are not trained enough to teach those proper techniques. From what I have seen all they do is find the biggest fastest kid, and tell everyone else to block for him.
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ricepig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #139 on: May 10, 2017, 04:25:07 pm »

I would love to see study that tracks the number of  hs football players that still have lingering injuries after graduating...

Would be interesting....

On another note, shouldnt the school cover the cost of those surgeries if directly related to playing for the school?



After they've left the high school, nope. When you play, you're covered by the school's catastrophic insurance policy, and maybe some other insurance.
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LZH

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #140 on: May 10, 2017, 04:26:44 pm »

The scholarship angle just does not fly. While a fbs school gives out 25, at most, football scholarships annually, they give out hundreds of academic scholarships, and that does not even count the financial aid available from private and public groups. So, instead of pinning their hopes of college on a long shot chance at a athletic scholarship, they could invest that time in academics.

% is way too young. 8, imo is too young. I do not think, in a sport where everyone will agree that proper technique is paramount to avoiding some serious injuries, that kids should play tackle outside the realm of school ball. Most, not all mind you, but most youth league coaches just are not trained enough to teach those proper techniques. From what I have seen all they do is find the biggest fastest kid, and tell everyone else to block for him.

I've kinda stayed out of this one, but as for eight year olds, not sure how much they're actually gonna hurt each other or themselves. I imagine every pee wee program teaches proper tackling these days, too.
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hogsanity

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #141 on: May 10, 2017, 04:42:33 pm »

I imagine every pee wee program teaches proper tackling these days, too.

you'd have to imagine it, cause it ain't happening.
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LZH

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #142 on: May 10, 2017, 04:44:51 pm »

you'd have to imagine it, cause it ain't happening.

Aren't they 'required' to?
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Peter Porker

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #143 on: May 10, 2017, 04:47:08 pm »

I've kinda stayed out of this one, but as for eight year olds, not sure how much they're actually gonna hurt each other or themselves. I imagine every pee wee program teaches proper tackling these days, too.

You'd be wrong. Some little leagues are so desperate for coaches that they'll throw any clown out there to coach. Some kids wear helmets that do not fit properly.
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LZH

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #144 on: May 10, 2017, 04:51:39 pm »

You'd be wrong. Some little leagues are so desperate for coaches that they'll throw any clown out there to coach. Some kids wear helmets that do not fit properly.

Well, actually that doesn't surprise me. Sounds like not much has changed since my peewee coaching days.
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ricepig

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #145 on: May 10, 2017, 04:54:33 pm »

Aren't they 'required' to?

Yes, they teach "heads up" tackling, or at least everywhere but Ft Smith.....
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LZH

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #146 on: May 10, 2017, 04:59:45 pm »

Yes, they teach "heads up" tackling, or at least everywhere but Ft Smith.....

Year before last there was a two or three part segment on the local ABC affiliate sports that covered FL youth football and safety. Safer tackling techniques was a big part of it. Teach them from a very early age and hopefully injuries would go down as they move up, or at least that is the idea.
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bennyl08

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #147 on: May 10, 2017, 05:01:45 pm »

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/schooled_in_sports/2012/12/long-term_brain_damage_found_in_six_former_hs_football_players.html

There were 15 brains from former HS athletes, and in 6 of them, there was at least stage 1 CTE. However, several of them were also in the military including explosives work.

Every brain that had CTE, the person the brain belonged to participated in some action that would cause head trauma.

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-football-brain-changes-20161128-story.html

This is a really interesting study. Followed extensively 24 HS players for a single year with the fancy accelerometers in their helmets and did a brain scan before and after a single season. None of the 24 students suffered any concussions during the season. However, in the brain scans afterwards, there were physiological changes to the brain strongly correlated to the amount of trauma the sensors registered throughout the season.

This is just 1 season of HS level football and none of them even had a concussion.

For both stories, the researchers are quick to point out that the overall research is too early to make any broad conclusions. In the 2nd link, it was taken right after the season was finished. Perhaps the brains self-healed in the months of the off-season of would go back to their original physiology after quitting football. For the first, there's a lot of factors that can go into things.

Finally

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/study-956-percent-of-deceased-nfl-players-tested-positive-for-cte/

This is a pretty alarming study. Of 91 deceased NFL players who donated their bodies to science, 87 had CTE. That is 95.6%. Maybe players more likely to feel like they had CTE would have been more likely to donate their bodies to science as well as being more likely to be dead.

Again, such a study like this doesn't conclude that 95+ percent of NFL players will get CTE. It takes at least a decade and often longer for research to really start to get some consensus and a good baseline. However, the initial and preliminary results are not good.
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Karma

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #148 on: May 10, 2017, 05:02:49 pm »

At this point, arguing that football does not make one more susceptible to a brain injury is like arguing that cigarettes aren't bad for you.
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sickboy

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Re: Would you let your kid play football?
« Reply #149 on: May 10, 2017, 05:17:44 pm »

So far I've avoided the philosophical, but you're right to some extent.  But you can present your thesis in a way that carries a positive or negative connotation.  You also ignore the game itself.  Do men play football to prove their masculinity, or do they play it to develop their masculinity and because they love the game itself? 

I'd venture to say that men play football to both validate their masculinity on some level and to develop their masculinity. I think those two can be intertwined. I absolutely believe people play football because they love the game. Games in general feed a very addictive section of the brain that allows humans to problem solve very quickly. When you succeed at solving a problem under duress, it sends a chemical response to the brain that is addictive. Winning, for the most part, in any avenue, is addictive. At a basic level, that's why we love to play games.

A similar question is this - why is football America's game?  Why do communities take pride in victory?  Why do residents of Michigan care whether the Wolverines beat Ohio State?  Is football, and college football in particular, a surrogate for the kind of real battles that destroy life and property?  To some extent maybe it is.  Does that make it bad?   

I believe subconsciously that all sports are a quasi simulation of warfare. It just so happens that football is one of the most physical sports, which lends itself to warring metaphors. It's certainly the most popular sport, currently, that involves hurting your opponent. Boxing used to be, but boxing has lost favor. Probably partially for how Ali has deteriorated. The irony, of course, being that both sports are link to head trauma. MMA is becoming very popular. But I digress.

Sports are like any other regional marker; they give identity and pride to a community. The atheletes allow us to vicariously live through their exploits. When they win, it gives us something to puff our chest about. Winning lets small communities feel much bigger. I'd suppose that feeds a similar addiction. I'm speaking of fandom, of course.
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