Hogville Info
• 9,223,732 Posts
• 380,956 Topics
• 21,235 Hogvillians
THE RULES (Read 'em!)
Quick Links
Pick'Ems:Football      Basketball      Baseball
Sister Sites:Gridiron HistoryFearless Friday
Listen NOW:Game ON 103.3 
  
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job  (Read 6654 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

LR54

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #150 on: May 06, 2017, 10:18:43 am »

I wish I shared your gut feeling, but I'm just not there.  And It's not a mediocre program.  It's just in a situation where the deck is stacked against us being in the SECw.  In any other conference we would have a much better perception.

SEC-W records for the last 2 seasons.

AL - 15-1
LSU - 10-6
AR - 8-8
Aggies - 8-8
Ole Miss - 8-8
MS St. - 7-9
AU - 7-9

Bama is in a league of their own right now, but the Hogs look to be in the mix with everybody else. When a program is being built by recruiting to needs and player development, over trying to recruit star power, results may not come as fast as some would want. Considering CBB is just now at the point of being able to work on quality depth, we stand to be more competitive going forward.
Logged

Al Boarland

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,439
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #151 on: May 06, 2017, 10:24:00 am »

SEC-W records for the last 2 seasons.

AL - 15-1
LSU - 10-6
AR - 8-8
Aggies - 8-8
Ole Miss - 8-8
MS St. - 7-9
AU - 7-9

Bama is in a league of their own right now, but the Hogs look to be in the mix with everybody else. When a program is being built by recruiting to needs and player development, over trying to recruit star power, results may not come as fast as some would want. Considering CBB is just now at the point of being able to work on quality depth, we stand to be more competitive going forward.

I guess we'll find out over the next coupe of seasons, but judging by where we are expected to sit in the SEC this season I'm not sure we are going to get there.
Logged

Sponsored Ad



Hogville encourages you to do business with the following...

GuvHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 45,028
  • Official Jeff Long Darksider!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #152 on: May 06, 2017, 11:43:47 am »

Not many, I'm sure. I mean, it only took Bret 4 years to win as many games as Ford did in five (but I'd bet Ford's SEC record was similar if not better......)

Other than the 1 year under Ford when the Hogs tied for the SEC West title, his record at Arkansas is pretty similar to CBB's.
Logged

LR54

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #153 on: May 06, 2017, 11:51:40 am »

I guess we'll find out over the next coupe of seasons, but judging by where we are expected to sit in the SEC this season I'm not sure we are going to get there.

Spring predictions don't mean much. Rosters and depth charts can change significantly after fall practice.

 There's probably more unknown than known about the Hogs right now. But being able to start working on some quality depth sure isn't going to hurt anything.
Logged

LZH

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 20,295
  • Tight but Loose
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #154 on: May 06, 2017, 12:00:10 pm »

Other than the 1 year under Ford when the Hogs tied for the SEC West title, his record at Arkansas is pretty similar to CBB's.

And other than 2015, BB has only won five SEC games since he's been here.
Logged

daBoar

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,483
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #155 on: May 06, 2017, 02:58:49 pm »

And other than 2015, BB has only won five SEC games since he's been here.
The result of being in the SEC West, we really have to work hard at Arkansas just to be average.
Logged

Al Boarland

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,439
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #156 on: May 06, 2017, 03:10:16 pm »

Spring predictions don't mean much. Rosters and depth charts can change significantly after fall practice.

 There's probably more unknown than known about the Hogs right now. But being able to start working on some quality depth sure isn't going to hurt anything.

Where is the quality depth? The recruiting rankings sure don't reflect that claim.
Logged

LR54

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #157 on: May 06, 2017, 03:56:33 pm »

Where is the quality depth? The recruiting rankings sure don't reflect that claim.

That's the point of a player development program. It doesn't depend on recruiting rankings. CBB has brought in some solid classes top to bottom. More importantly, there hasn't been much attrition, so the players have stayed around to be developed.

Between recruiting for a different style of play and having to fill gaps left by attrition and some recruiting whiffs, CBB is just now able to focus on building some depth at most positions.

And he's had to do it with a 25 scholly limit that previous coaches didn't have to deal with.
Logged

Al Boarland

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,439
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #158 on: May 06, 2017, 04:13:32 pm »

That's the point of a player development program. It doesn't depend on recruiting rankings. CBB has brought in some solid classes top to bottom. More importantly, there hasn't been much attrition, so the players have stayed around to be developed.

Between recruiting for a different style of play and having to fill gaps left by attrition and some recruiting whiffs, CBB is just now able to focus on building some depth at most positions.

And he's had to do it with a 25 scholly limit that previous coaches didn't have to deal with.

What about all the other teams with higher recruiting rankings that are also developing players?
Logged

hawginbigd1

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,649
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #159 on: May 06, 2017, 04:13:49 pm »

This is how any logical person sees Bielema's tenure.
That is an opinion that I believe to be absolutely illogical. I am one of the original people calling for Nutt to be canned, his last 5 years he was sliding by beating weak competition with a very weak roster top to bottom. BB has not been perfect, and has dropped 5or 6 games in his time he shouldn't have, but he has assembled the best talent and one of the best staffs at Arkansas in 30+ years. The downside is the SEC West is the absolute best it has ever been in history IMO. Am I thrilled at the Wins and Losses, absolutely not, but I am ecstatic about the condition of the program and I can see it paying huge dividends over the next 5 years and us experiencing a Hog football Renaissance much like but more sustainable than what BP did.

Think about it like this, BP's last year, what teams concerned you on our schedule? In my mind it's the ones that beat us, because they were the only ones that had the talent level to beat us! Look at our schedule this year and who are you concerned about? It's not about us, it's them. HDN and even BP to a degree were playing AAA, BB has been at the MLB level since he has been here IMO. So logically his tenure has not been a disappointment.
Logged

LZH

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 20,295
  • Tight but Loose
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #160 on: May 06, 2017, 04:31:58 pm »

he has assembled the best talent and one of the best staffs at Arkansas in 30+ years.

Why do people keep saying this?
Logged

LR54

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #161 on: May 06, 2017, 05:04:57 pm »

What about all the other teams with higher recruiting rankings that are also developing players?

Bama is the only one that has had a significantly better record the last couple of years.

Recruiting rankings don't mean much when the high star players they're based on transfer out, get booted off the team, or turn out to be busts.

All development programs are not created equal. I know the NFL values players from a CBB program.   
Logged

wildhogman

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,360
  • Hogville.net Rocks!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #162 on: May 06, 2017, 05:27:13 pm »

What about all the other teams with higher recruiting rankings that are also developing players?
how did those high rankings workout for Ole miss the past 3 years?  Rankings are nice but the game is played on the field,,develope your players more then a hugh freeze or gus malazan and your win more then you lose
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39,384
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #163 on: May 06, 2017, 05:39:25 pm »

Why do people keep saying this?

I think it is quite possible that he has, but the proof is in the puddin.

I know these things to be fact with regard to recruiting level, talent development and how talented, that talent turns out to be.

Arkansas is tied with Georgia at #14 in the country for having produced the most drafted players from 2013-2017 (21).

But Arkansas is also only one of four teams of that grouping of 15 teams that has produced single digit numbers of 3rd round draft choices over that time as well and among those ranked with or above us, we have the fewest 3rd round draft choices during that time with just 3. That might not seem like much until you look at how it all lays out in our conference and on the national landscape (vs. the competition that we play) and then you begin to understand why we have such a difficult time winning at a higher level in the SEC.

Arkansas may be tied with Georgia at #14 for the most players drafted from 2013-2017 but we are also ranked #41 in the country with the number of 3rd round or better draft choices that we have produced. It isn't that we don't have talent, it is just that we haven't seemed to recruit or produce upper echelon talent as it relates to the perception of the NFL. Really good talent (identified, recruited, signed and developed) but just not the great talent levels that we have to face in the SEC.

Here's a great example.

From 2013-2017 Arkansas had 21 players drafted with 3 of them being in the 3rd round or above.

During the same period Oklahoma had 24 players drafted with 5 of them being in the 3rd round or above.

Not that big of a difference in terms of talent and developed talent, at least as far as the NFL perception goes.

But when it comes to wins and losses, that is where the differences in the strength of conferences comes into play.

So are we recruiting pretty good talent? Yes. Are we recruiting enough high end talent to take down the big boys in our Division on a regular basis? Not yet.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 05:54:11 pm by MuskogeeHogFan »
Logged

jlhogfan

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 509
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #164 on: May 06, 2017, 05:45:40 pm »

When those services rank recruits, is it based on what they think they could do in College or NFL? 
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39,384
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #165 on: May 06, 2017, 05:52:15 pm »

When those services rank recruits, is it based on what they think they could do in College or NFL? 

High School, which as we all know, isn't exactly flawless. That's why the better measuring stick for the vast majority of players is 3 years into their college careers and after that, who is developed enough to be considered to be good enough to be drafted. And even then, with all of the detailed evaluation that the NFL attempts to perform, they too can miss on players from time to time.
Logged

jlhogfan

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 509
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #166 on: May 06, 2017, 06:03:28 pm »

how did those high rankings workout for Ole miss the past 3 years?  Rankings are nice but the game is played on the field,,develope your players more then a hugh freeze or gus malazan and your win more then you lose


From 2012-2015 they went from 7-10 wins improving each year.  Last year they imploded and got busted, however
Logged

LRRandy

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,474
  • tOSU
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #167 on: May 06, 2017, 06:12:58 pm »

That's the point of a player development program. It doesn't depend on recruiting rankings. CBB has brought in some solid classes top to bottom. More importantly, there hasn't been much attrition, so the players have stayed around to be developed.

Between recruiting for a different style of play and having to fill gaps left by attrition and some recruiting whiffs, CBB is just now able to focus on building some depth at most positions.

And he's had to do it with a 25 scholly limit that previous coaches didn't have to deal with.
the scholarship limit for football has been 85 since 1984. What new rule has Beilema been saddled with that his predecessors did not?
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39,384
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #168 on: May 06, 2017, 06:14:37 pm »

the scholarship limit for football has been 85 since 1984. What new rule has Beilema been saddled with that his predecessors did not?

The 25 scholarship limit in the SEC, but you knew that already.
Logged

LRRandy

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,474
  • tOSU
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #169 on: May 06, 2017, 06:28:35 pm »

SEC-W records for the last 2 seasons.

AL - 15-1
LSU - 10-6
AR - 8-8
Aggies - 8-8
Ole Miss - 8-8
MS St. - 7-9
AU - 7-9

Bama is in a league of their own right now, but the Hogs look to be in the mix with everybody else. When a program is being built by recruiting to needs and player development, over trying to recruit star power, results may not come as fast as some would want. Considering CBB is just now at the point of being able to work on quality depth, we stand to be more competitive going forward.
yeah, that's how the rest of the nation looks at it too.
Logged

LRRandy

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,474
  • tOSU
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #170 on: May 06, 2017, 06:30:42 pm »

The 25 scholarship limit in the SEC, but you knew that already.
you mean actually havin to play by the rules that the other conferences had been for years.
Logged

Gonzo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,204
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #171 on: May 06, 2017, 08:35:00 pm »

That is an opinion that I believe to be absolutely illogical. I am one of the original people calling for Nutt to be canned, his last 5 years he was sliding by beating weak competition with a very weak roster top to bottom. BB has not been perfect, and has dropped 5or 6 games in his time he shouldn't have, but he has assembled the best talent and one of the best staffs at Arkansas in 30+ years. The downside is the SEC West is the absolute best it has ever been in history IMO. Am I thrilled at the Wins and Losses, absolutely not, but I am ecstatic about the condition of the program and I can see it paying huge dividends over the next 5 years and us experiencing a Hog football Renaissance much like but more sustainable than what BP did.

Think about it like this, BP's last year, what teams concerned you on our schedule? In my mind it's the ones that beat us, because they were the only ones that had the talent level to beat us! Look at our schedule this year and who are you concerned about? It's not about us, it's them. HDN and even BP to a degree were playing AAA, BB has been at the MLB level since he has been here IMO. So logically his tenure has not been a disappointment.


By "minor league (AAA)" do you mean the league BP faced where 4 different teams made a total of 5 appearances in the BCS championship game, and 3 different schools brought all 4 titles back to the SEC?    Is that the minor league you of which you speak?            LOL!    The SEC is much top heavier right now than it was then, it's just one really big dog.


Go Hogs!
Logged

hawginbigd1

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,649
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #172 on: May 06, 2017, 08:58:02 pm »


By "minor league (AAA)" do you mean the league BP faced where 4 different teams made a total of 5 appearances in the BCS championship game, and 3 different schools brought all 4 titles back to the SEC?    Is that the minor league you of which you speak?            LOL!    The SEC is much top heavier right now than it was then, it's just one really big dog.


Go Hogs!
Not sure you can say that with a straight face the facts do not bear that out. Go back and look at 10, 11, and 12 conference standings that doesn't include A&M and tell me the entire league wasn't really about 4 or 5 teams including us. Ole miss and MSU were horrible compared to where they have been the last 4 years, and as I said no A&M so like I said facts matter.
Logged

Gonzo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,204
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #173 on: May 06, 2017, 09:23:19 pm »

Not sure you can say that with a straight face the facts do not bear that out. Go back and look at 10, 11, and 12 conference standings that doesn't include A&M and tell me the entire league wasn't really about 4 or 5 teams including us. Ole miss and MSU were horrible compared to where they have been the last 4 years, and as I said no A&M so like I said facts matter.

Thanks for confirming my point. Yes, it was about several teams at that time, it's one now. I can say it with an absolutely straight face because the very facts I presented really do bear out exactly that.



Go Hogs!
Logged

hawginbigd1

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4,649
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #174 on: May 06, 2017, 11:51:47 pm »

Thanks for confirming my point. Yes, it was about several teams at that time, it's one now. I can say it with an absolutely straight face because the very facts I presented really do bear out exactly that.



Go Hogs!
No it's not about one, there is one that is better than all others in any league, that says nothing about the rest of the conference. The point is the west over BB's tenure is better than the entire conference was in the past.
Logged

wildhogman

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,360
  • Hogville.net Rocks!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #175 on: May 07, 2017, 12:13:25 am »

Thanks for confirming my point. Yes, it was about several teams at that time, it's one now. I can say it with an absolutely straight face because the very facts I presented really do bear out exactly that.



Go Hogs!
what exactly was your point again. Because I don't think BP's record is very good against those 3 or 4 teams you speak of.
And as I tire of BP greatest post, remind me again what his record against SEC teams was in 2016 with his award winning QB.
Logged

LRRandy

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,474
  • tOSU
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #176 on: May 07, 2017, 07:22:51 am »

No it's not about one, there is one that is better than all others in any league, that says nothing about the rest of the conference. The point is the west over BB's tenure is better than the entire conference was in the past.
while Bama is very good, they have 2 losses to teams from other conferences in the last 3 playoffs. If your statement was actually true they would have 3 titles in a row. It's says volumes about the rest of the conference. Only one team in the conference has been able to beat them recently and that team is currently in trouble for stacking their team by cheating.
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39,384
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #177 on: May 07, 2017, 07:52:24 am »

while Bama is very good, they have 2 losses to teams from other conferences in the last 3 playoffs. If your statement was actually true they would have 3 titles in a row. It's says volumes about the rest of the conference. Only one team in the conference has been able to beat them recently and that team is currently in trouble for stacking their team by cheating.

As it relates to talent levels, Alabama probably shouldn't ever be beaten, but odd things happen in games that can occasionally turn the game a different direction.

From 2012 through the 2016 season they have averaged (rounding) 13-1 seasons. On top of that, in the NFL Draft's that followed each of those seasons, they have had 41 players drafted, the most in P-5. 26 of those 41 have been drafted in rounds 1-3 and again, the most of any team in P-5 conferences.

Alabama probably should have beaten Clemson and won another NC last year but they lost their OC to a HC'ing job and their heir to the OC's job had his mind on the NFL so I am not sure that he had his mind on his job as he might have had if he expected to return to Alabama. I know Clemson had a good defense, but Alabama's was good too. The Alabama offense just didn't show up for that game.

But, look at Ohio State over that same period of 2012-2016. They averaged 12-1 seasons, had 33 players drafted and 23 of those in the first three rounds, but they have been beaten as well. Theoretically, you could say the same thing about Ohio State, especially when they don't play a schedule as difficult as many SEC teams.

Point is, Alabama is usually the best that the SEC has to offer these days but despite what some may think, their players and staff are human and make mistakes just like any other team. Heck Clemson lost to Pitt in their own conference during the season. Does that diminish their NC? Nope.
Logged

Gonzo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,204
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #178 on: May 07, 2017, 07:53:53 am »

what exactly was your point again. Because I don't think BP's record is very good against those 3 or 4 teams you speak of.
And as I tire of BP greatest post, remind me again what his record against SEC teams was in 2016 with his award winning QB.

And what exactly is your point? Remind me again where I was claiming he was "the greatest". We were discussing the overall quality of the SEC then vs now. Care to discuss that?


Go Hogs!
Logged

Gonzo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,204
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #179 on: May 07, 2017, 08:10:47 am »

No it's not about one, there is one that is better than all others in any league, that says nothing about the rest of the conference. The point is the west over BB's tenure is better than the entire conference was in the past.

See Randy above for refuting your first point.

Again, it's really simple. Then = the culmination of a run of 7 straight national titles for the SEC from 4 different schools, including the only instance of one conference grabbing both slots in the title game. Now = only one team in the national title hunt. You said it yourself, facts matter. They do not back you up.



Go Hogs!
Logged

LRRandy

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,474
  • tOSU
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #180 on: May 07, 2017, 08:17:54 am »

As it relates to talent levels, Alabama probably shouldn't ever be beaten, but odd things happen in games that can occasionally turn the game a different direction.

From 2012 through the 2016 season they have averaged (rounding) 13-1 seasons. On top of that, in the NFL Draft's that followed each of those seasons, they have had 41 players drafted, the most in P-5. 26 of those 41 have been drafted in rounds 1-3 and again, the most of any team in P-5 conferences.

Alabama probably should have beaten Clemson and won another NC last year but they lost their OC to a HC'ing job and their heir to the OC's job had his mind on the NFL so I am not sure that he had his mind on his job as he might have had if he expected to return to Alabama. I know Clemson had a good defense, but Alabama's was good too. The Alabama offense just didn't show up for that game.

But, look at Ohio State over that same period of 2012-2016. They averaged 12-1 seasons, had 33 players drafted and 23 of those in the first three rounds, but they have been beaten as well. Theoretically, you could say the same thing about Ohio State, especially when they don't play a schedule as difficult as many SEC teams.

Point is, Alabama is usually the best that the SEC has to offer these days but despite what some may think, their players and staff are human and make mistakes just like any other team. Heck Clemson lost to Pitt in their own conference during the season. Does that diminish their NC? Nope.
Alabama has had the number one recruiting class in the nation for what, 7? Years in a row? They are supremely talented at every position. When getting to the playoffs and facing teams that while maybe not equally talented across the board, are as talented in many spots. In those games it comes down to execution by those players. Clemson executed that final drive against a very good Bama defense to win the title game. Clemson had the athletes to get it done and Bama showed, in your phrasing, that they were human. That is the fun of getting to watch the top teams square off in the playoff. Frankly, I'm hoping to see Bama be a little more " human" in the next few seasons. Hopefully 2-3 humans a year. 😃
     
Logged

LR54

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #181 on: May 07, 2017, 11:50:36 am »

See Randy above for refuting your first point.

Again, it's really simple. Then = the culmination of a run of 7 straight national titles for the SEC from 4 different schools, including the only instance of one conference grabbing both slots in the title game. Now = only one team in the national title hunt. You said it yourself, facts matter. They do not back you up.

Go Hogs!

Actually, they do.

NC titles or appearances only require one (or 2) exceptional teams each season. That doesn't address top to bottom parity within the conference or division.

In 2 of the last 3 seasons, all 7 teams in the SEC-W had winning records and played in post season bowl games. Following the 2015 season, 6 of the 7 West teams won those games.

If you were trying to make the case that the SEC-W was tougher during the BP era, then the facts don't really back that up.

It's also worth noting that since CBB has been at Arkansas, over half his games have been against ranked teams. I don't recall BP having to face that.
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39,384
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #182 on: May 07, 2017, 01:33:38 pm »

Alabama has had the number one recruiting class in the nation for what, 7? Years in a row? They are supremely talented at every position. When getting to the playoffs and facing teams that while maybe not equally talented across the board, are as talented in many spots. In those games it comes down to execution by those players. Clemson executed that final drive against a very good Bama defense to win the title game. Clemson had the athletes to get it done and Bama showed, in your phrasing, that they were human. That is the fun of getting to watch the top teams square off in the playoff. Frankly, I'm hoping to see Bama be a little more " human" in the next few seasons. Hopefully 2-3 humans a year. 😃
     

To me, that is exactly what a coach or a media person means when they speak of the "any given day" thing as it relates to playing the schedule of games in a season. We have all seen it happen before. The most talented team doesn't always win and that can be for a number of reasons. As we all know, it isn't always a case of everything working out the way it is supposed to work out. How does Arkansas in 2014, hang with Alabama eventually losing 14-13? Normally, that shouldn't have happened, if you compare simply on the basis of the talent levels of the two teams.

Heck, look at LSU, which is yet another immensely talented team. They are tied for 2nd in the country with Florida State and Florida for having the most overall draft picks from 2013-2017 and 20 of the 35 drafted were in the 1st through 3rd rounds...a lot of upper level professional talent on that team and no one with the exception of Alabama and Ohio State has had more 1st through 3rd round draft picks over that time. Yet, from 2012-2016 seasons they averaged just a 9-4 record each year. So again, the most talented team doesn't always win.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 02:03:16 pm by MuskogeeHogFan »
Logged

GuvHog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 45,028
  • Official Jeff Long Darksider!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #183 on: May 07, 2017, 01:52:00 pm »

Actually, they do.

NC titles or appearances only require one (or 2) exceptional teams each season. That doesn't address top to bottom parity within the conference or division.

In 2 of the last 3 seasons, all 7 teams in the SEC-W had winning records and played in post season bowl games. Following the 2015 season, 6 of the 7 West teams won those games.

If you were trying to make the case that the SEC-W was tougher during the BP era, then the facts don't really back that up.

It's also worth noting that since CBB has been at Arkansas, over half his games have been against ranked teams. I don't recall BP having to face that.


When was the last year that the SEC West had 3 teams finish the season in the top 5 nationally in College Football?? The answer to that question is all that is needed to refute your post. The West, though still strong, has not been THAT strong since that year.
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39,384
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #184 on: May 07, 2017, 05:14:58 pm »

When was the last year that the SEC West had 3 teams finish the season in the top 5 nationally in College Football?? The answer to that question is all that is needed to refute your post. The West, though still strong, has not been THAT strong since that year.

That year (2011 AP Poll) there wasn't any other SEC West team listed in the Top 25, which indicates more top heaviness in the West which also tends to equate to more wins, which equates to a higher ranking.

What about the years when there were more listed in the top 25 overall? That reflects greater parity than one year when 3 teams in the West excelled and others perhaps, underachieved as opposed to what they usually produce.
Logged

HiggiePiggy

  • Hall of Fame Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 10,957
  • Hope...
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #185 on: May 07, 2017, 06:29:09 pm »

2010. Auburn finished 14-0. LSU 11-2. Arkansas and Alabama 10-3. Mississippi State 9-5. Ole miss 4-8.  The east sucked, but South Carolina finished 9-5


2011. LSU 13-1, Alabama, 12-1, Arkansas 11-2, auburn 8-5, Mississippi St. 7-6, and ole miss 2-10. South Carolina finished 11-2 and Georgia 10-4.  So the east like now has been down and the west like now is pretty similar to today.

The last two years of petrino is similar in the sec as the last two years of CBB.  East has been down for awhile while the west have a slugfest.


Logged

wachhog

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 1,311
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #186 on: May 07, 2017, 11:22:52 pm »

Why do people keep saying this?
they wanted Jeff Long for president?
Logged

LR54

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #187 on: May 08, 2017, 09:51:51 am »

When was the last year that the SEC West had 3 teams finish the season in the top 5 nationally in College Football?? The answer to that question is all that is needed to refute your post. The West, though still strong, has not been THAT strong since that year.

As that 3rd place team, we weren't competitive against the top 2 teams, losing by 24 points to both. Below us? Auburn was at the beginning of the end for Chizik w/o Cam Newton. Nutt was unraveling at Ole Miss. Mullen was rebuilding from a hole at MS St. A&M wasn't in the division.

Since CBB got here, how does the SEC-W look? Bama continues to be Bama. Auburn is in a NC game. The Aggies enter the division and promptly beat Bama with Manziel. Ole Miss under Freeze beats Bama twice, and is one play away from winning the SEC-W. Mullen has MS St. ranked #1 in the country. LSU is loaded with NFL players and is capable of beating anybody. CBB plays the #1 Tide to within 1 point, shuts out Ole Miss and LSU, and soundly beats SEC-E champion Florida.

THAT's what a strong division looks like.
 
Logged

ATU HOG

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 810
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #188 on: May 08, 2017, 09:52:36 am »


2010                                      2011                                 2014                                    2015                              2016
1.  Auburn                              1.  Bama                           4. Bama                               1. Bama                          2. Bama
5.  Ohio State                         2.  LSU                             10. Georgia                           10. Ole Miss                    13. LSU
8.  LSU                                  10. South Carolina              11. MS State                        16. LSU                           14. Florida
10. Bama                               15. K-State                         14. Mizzou                          22. Tennessee                  16.  V- Tech
15. MS. State                                                                    22. Auburn                                                              24. Auburn
19. A&M                                Top 25 Record 2-2                Top 25 Record 0-5                Top 25 Record 3-1            Top 25 Record 1-4
22. South Carolina
Top 25 record: 4-3                     
Record:10-3                            Record: 11-2                         Record 7-6                           Record 8-5                   Record 7-6
Logged

ATU HOG

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 810
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #189 on: May 08, 2017, 09:54:44 am »

Need to win 9 this year and it's possible.  Season hinges on A&M and TCU
Logged

The ColonelHog

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 334
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #190 on: May 08, 2017, 10:38:30 am »

Need to win 9 this year and it's possible.  Season hinges on A&M and TCU

THIS!

Take into account of returning starters for teams on our schedule and the inexperience they have at QB, the window is open and we have to hit it now.  9-3 or bust.
Logged

Gonzo

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3,204
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #191 on: May 09, 2017, 02:18:46 am »

Actually, they do.

NC titles or appearances only require one (or 2) exceptional teams each season. That doesn't address top to bottom parity within the conference or division.

In 2 of the last 3 seasons, all 7 teams in the SEC-W had winning records and played in post season bowl games. Following the 2015 season, 6 of the 7 West teams won those games.

If you were trying to make the case that the SEC-W was tougher during the BP era, then the facts don't really back that up.

It's also worth noting that since CBB has been at Arkansas, over half his games have been against ranked teams. I don't recall BP having to face that.


Actually, again, no they don't. Conference A - numerous teams WINNING national championships, Conference B - one team contending for national titlles. No matter how long, how loud, how passionately you argue that conference B is better,  you're going to be wrong.It's really simple, I'm sorry for you you can't see that.


Go Hogs!
Logged

Al Boarland

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,439
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #192 on: May 09, 2017, 04:16:26 am »

Need to win 9 this year and it's possible.  Season hinges on A&M and TCU

I think the MS schools are the swing games.
Logged

Wildhog

  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39,365
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #193 on: May 09, 2017, 09:25:47 am »

Why do people keep saying this?

Habit. 
Logged

LR54

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #194 on: May 09, 2017, 10:42:18 am »

Actually, again, no they don't. Conference A - numerous teams WINNING national championships, Conference B - one team contending for national titlles. No matter how long, how loud, how passionately you argue that conference B is better,  you're going to be wrong.It's really simple, I'm sorry for you you can't see that.


Go Hogs!

That still has nothing to do with the overall strength in the division.

During the BP era, SEC-W teams with winning records averaged 4.5.

For the same number of years under CBB, West teams with winning records have averaged 6.25.

Both divisions produced NCs. Which division was tougher to win?

While BP was here, Bama and Auburn won NCs. 2008 thru 2012 - Bama won 3. Auburn 1

While CBB has been here. Bama and Auburn have been in the NC game. Auburn once, Bama in the new playoff system 3 out of 3. Granted, they didn't win all of 'em, but the fact is, they faced tougher competition to get there. 

Logged

The ColonelHog

  • Varsity
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 334
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #195 on: May 09, 2017, 11:12:11 am »

That still has nothing to do with the overall strength in the division.

During the BP era, SEC-W teams with winning records averaged 4.5.

For the same number of years under CBB, West teams with winning records have averaged 6.25.

Both divisions produced NCs. Which division was tougher to win?

While BP was here, Bama and Auburn won NCs. 2008 thru 2012 - Bama won 3. Auburn 1

While CBB has been here. Bama and Auburn have been in the NC game. Auburn once, Bama in the new playoff system 3 out of 3. Granted, they didn't win all of 'em, but the fact is, they faced tougher competition to get there.

STOP IT!  The SEC is nowhere near as competitive as it was in the past!  There is ONE, and only ONE team in the SEC that have a shot at winning a NC!  In previous years there were 4!
Logged

MuskogeeHogFan

  • Global Moderator
  • Gold Hogvillian
  • *********
  • Online Online
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 39,384
  • Nadine Coyle shakin it for the Hogs!!!!
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #196 on: May 09, 2017, 12:48:54 pm »

STOP IT!  The SEC is nowhere near as competitive as it was in the past!  There is ONE, and only ONE team in the SEC that have a shot at winning a NC!  In previous years there were 4!

If your definition of "competitive" equates only to winning games, then overall, you might be wrong. What elements make up being competitive? Is it the amount of talent you have on your team, the coaching staff that you have, the offensive and defensive schemes that you run and who you have to play to win games (schedule)? You are painting with a pretty broad brush when you make a statement like the SEC isn't as competitive as in the past. Hopefully you have some rational facts to back that up?
Logged

LR54

  • Senior
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 574
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #197 on: May 09, 2017, 02:50:42 pm »

STOP IT!  The SEC is nowhere near as competitive as it was in the past!  There is ONE, and only ONE team in the SEC that have a shot at winning a NC!  In previous years there were 4!

I don't know what previous years you're talking about. During the BP years, 2 of the 4 years only had 1 SEC-W team with double digit wins, and that was Bama.

4 of the last 5 years have had more than 1 double digit winner. The only year there has been less than 2 was last season. If you want to claim the SEC "is nowhere near as competitive as it was in the past", based on one outlier year, have at it.

The fact is that the SEC-W has more winning teams over the last 4 years than at ANY time in the past.
Logged

Paul

  • Hogvillian
  • ******
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1,683
  • Surfing the web at Hogville.net
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #198 on: May 09, 2017, 06:04:29 pm »

I think BB has done a good job here.  The end of the 2016 season sucked.  What coach would realistically come here & build a better program? 
Logged

LRRandy

  • All-American Hogvillian
  • *******
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 2,474
  • tOSU
Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #199 on: May 09, 2017, 06:13:14 pm »

I think BB has done a good job here.  The end of the 2016 season sucked.  What coach would realistically come here & build a better program?
so is this the reasoning most hog fans use?  He's the best you an get?
Logged
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6   Go Up
 

KARK
KWNA
Fox 16 Arkansas