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Author Topic: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job  (Read 6279 times)

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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2017, 03:23:10 pm »

While I understand your point, I don't think it applies to the multi-billion dollar business called college football.  You think all the money being spent to upgrade the facilities is based on developing better citizens of better FB players?  In sports, it's all about W-L at this level.  With that said, I can't say he has done a good job with his hires until those hires translate into wins.  I don't expect 12-0 seasons but I do expect a sustained top 25 program.  That doesn't mean winning the West or SEC, 9-3 playing in the SEC will equal a sustained top 25 presence.  Sprinkle in 10-2 here and there and I'm all in.  Right now, 7-5 just isn't cutting it and if it happens again this season, the Ole seat is going to be on fire..

Well you might as well prepare and save your pre-written complaint about the coach and the team, because we aren't going to see a 9-3 season every year unless we start getting top 15 classes year after year after year and I just don't see that happening. Hope it does, but I kinda doubt it.
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RazorWest

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2017, 03:29:29 pm »

Well you might as well prepare and save your pre-written complaint about the coach and the team, because we aren't going to see a 9-3 season every year unless we start getting top 15 classes year after year after year and I just don't see that happening. Hope it does, but I kinda doubt it.

I don't think he has to be 9-3 every year, just every few.  He has to beat the teams he has more talent than though.  A la Missouri last year and Texas tech and Toledo the year before.  If he wins the games he's supposed to then he can work on stealing some others.  In the west Alabama, Auburn, and Texas AM are the only teams with overall better talent (ole miss is back down to earth and Mississippi state isn't more talented).  So steal one or two and hope the East stays pathetic.  Then you've got a pretty good season going. 
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Surfing8

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2017, 03:29:41 pm »

lol

Late April and the spin rationalizing Bielema's mediocrity to date (in record as well as assistant churn) is already in pre-season form.   
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ricepig

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2017, 03:33:27 pm »

lol

Late April and the spin rationalizing Bielema's mediocrity to date (in record as well as assistant churn) is already in pre-season form.   

You might as well log off for 18 months then.....
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2017, 03:34:00 pm »

I don't think he has to be 9-3 every year, just every few.  He has to beat the teams he has more talent than though.  A la Missouri last year and Texas tech and Toledo the year before.  If he wins the games he's supposed to then he can work on stealing some others.  In the west Alabama, Auburn, and Texas AM are the only teams with overall better talent (ole miss is back down to earth and Mississippi state isn't more talented).  So steal one or two and hope the East stays pathetic.  Then you've got a pretty good season going. 

You forgot LSU. So Alabama, Auburn, A&M and LSU...that's 2/3 of our Western Division opponents.
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Surfing8

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2017, 03:38:46 pm »

You might as well log off for 18 months then.....

Why would I do that? 
That sounds a lot like "Don't come to Berkeley with a different point of view".

Besides, it's baseball season where win or lose it's a given the coach is committed to putting a top-flight product on the field. 
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ricepig

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2017, 03:45:08 pm »

Why would I do that? 
That sounds a lot like "Don't come to Berkeley with a different point of view".

Besides, it's baseball season where win or lose it's a given the coach is committed to putting a top-flight product on the field. 

It always seems to bother you to read a different opinion, ironic isn't it?
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Surfing8

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2017, 03:48:08 pm »

It always seems to bother you to read a different opinion, ironic isn't it?

lol

If that's me being bothered, this is you being triggered... and ironic... at the same time. 

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ricepig

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2017, 03:58:45 pm »

lol

If that's me being bothered, this is you being triggered... and ironic... at the same time. 



Yet more irony....
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Surfing8

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2017, 04:03:19 pm »

Yet more irony....

...and even more.
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RazorWest

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #110 on: April 28, 2017, 04:16:20 pm »

You forgot LSU. So Alabama, Auburn, A&M and LSU...that's 2/3 of our Western Division opponents.

Yep, I forgot LSU.  So if we lose to all of them and win the rest that's 8 wins not counting the bowl.  I feel like the hogs should be beating A & M about half the time, even though they do get more talent, I don't feel like they are really a "better" team than the hogs, so I expect the hogs to start winning some of those battles.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #111 on: April 28, 2017, 04:24:36 pm »

Yep, I forgot LSU.  So if we lose to all of them and win the rest that's 8 wins not counting the bowl.  I feel like the hogs should be beating A & M about half the time, even though they do get more talent, I don't feel like they are really a "better" team than the hogs, so I expect the hogs to start winning some of those battles.

Our usual place, as long as recruiting (though improving) rankings stay where they are, is a baseline of 7-8 wins each year, a few 9 win seasons and every once in a while we might log a 10-11 win season. Even as it stands right now, with the talent we had last year, we should have beaten Missouri and Va Tech and really, we should have beaten A&M as well. That would have given us 9 regular season wins and a 10th from the bowl. BUT, we have to have a better prepared defense (keeping my fingers crossed for Paul Rhoads) and we have to stop giving up so many big plays and shooting our foot off on offense. Do those things and we might win more games, but there are no guarantees at this point.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #112 on: April 28, 2017, 04:59:03 pm »

Yep, I forgot LSU.  So if we lose to all of them and win the rest that's 8 wins not counting the bowl.  I feel like the hogs should be beating A & M about half the time, even though they do get more talent, I don't feel like they are really a "better" team than the hogs, so I expect the hogs to start winning some of those battles.
A&M has a much higher ceiling as a program. They just don't have the coach. They get that and you might as well go into the season throwing a L by that game based on talent.
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ricepig

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #113 on: April 28, 2017, 05:00:25 pm »

A&M has a much higher ceiling as a program. They just don't have the coach. They get that and you might as well go into the season throwing a L by that game based on talent.

Might, might not.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #114 on: April 28, 2017, 05:01:48 pm »

A&M has a much higher ceiling as a program. They just don't have the coach. They get that and you might as well go into the season throwing a L by that game based on talent.

It is pretty incredible how Sumlin has underachieved at A&M with all of that talent, but the same might be said of Gus at Auburn and I'd bet that a lot of the Gus fans never expected to have to admit that with him as the HC.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #115 on: April 28, 2017, 05:04:56 pm »

Might, might not.

That's just how I predict and season. I base it on talent. It's the most important factor.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2017, 05:06:29 pm »

It is pretty incredible how Sumlin has underachieved at A&M with all of that talent, but the same might be said of Gus at Auburn and I'd bet that a lot of the Gus fans never expected to have to admit that with him as the HC.

That's true. Auburn has had trigger man issues. When they don't they are lethal. They have a good one right now. I guess that's why they are considered contenders. Plus, they have that stud RB.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2017, 05:08:39 pm »

That's true. Auburn has had trigger man issues. When they don't they are lethal. They have a good one right now. I guess that's why they are considered contenders. Plus, they have that stud RB.

Well yeah, but Gus was thought to be "THE QB Guru". Apparently that hasn't turned out to be true.
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LZH

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2017, 05:09:51 pm »

That's true. Auburn has had trigger man issues. When they don't they are lethal. They have a good one right now. I guess that's why they are considered contenders. Plus, they have that stud RB.

I still think maybe Sumlin's problems could clear up some if he'd......um, clear up some.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2017, 05:10:21 pm »

Well yeah, but Gus was thought to be "THE QB Guru". Apparently that hasn't turned out to be true.

Pretty sure he brought someone in to take over QB development and play calling.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #120 on: April 28, 2017, 05:15:22 pm »

Pretty sure he brought someone in to take over QB development and play calling.

He did, but that was supposed to be his strength as a coach, along with being a creative OC.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #121 on: April 28, 2017, 05:18:07 pm »

He did, but that was supposed to be his strength as a coach, along with being a creative OC.

Sure. CBB was a D-coordinator and we struggled mightily on D. We are glad he brought in CPR, right?
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #122 on: April 28, 2017, 05:43:21 pm »

Sure. CBB was a D-coordinator and we struggled mightily on D. We are glad he brought in CPR, right?

That's a good point but I thought that Gus ran his own offense and coached his own QB's until he was pressured to hire someone else to do that? Doesn't sound like he was getting it done? On the other hand, Bielema has never come in and been a position coach on defense and has handed that responsibility off to an assistant, so...the only thing he is guilty of is perhaps not having had a quicker trigger finger.
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Bebop

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #123 on: April 28, 2017, 05:46:41 pm »

Our usual place, as long as recruiting (though improving) rankings stay where they are, is a baseline of 7-8 wins each year, a few 9 win seasons and every once in a while we might log a 10-11 win season. Even as it stands right now, with the talent we had last year, we should have beaten Missouri and Va Tech and really, we should have beaten A&M as well. That would have given us 9 regular season wins and a 10th from the bowl. BUT, we have to have a better prepared defense (keeping my fingers crossed for Paul Rhoads) and we have to stop giving up so many big plays and shooting our foot off on offense. Do those things and we might win more games, but there are no guarantees at this point.

The last two season we have underachieved.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #124 on: April 28, 2017, 05:50:26 pm »

The last two season we have underachieved.

No doubt. 2015 due to a worsening defense and 2016 the same, though the offense shot itself in the foot many times as well. But in 2016, even if the offense hadn't shot itself in the foot repeatedly and had been nearly perfect, the defense would still have cost us several games.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #125 on: April 28, 2017, 08:52:29 pm »

That's a good point but I thought that Gus ran his own offense and coached his own QB's until he was pressured to hire someone else to do that? Doesn't sound like he was getting it done? On the other hand, Bielema has never come in and been a position coach on defense and has handed that responsibility off to an assistant, so...the only thing he is guilty of is perhaps not having had a quicker trigger finger.

I'm not understanding the difference. On one hand people give CBB credit for recognizing a change needed to be made, but somehow if Malzahn does the same thing it means something different.
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GuvHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #126 on: April 29, 2017, 08:06:20 am »

No doubt. 2015 due to a worsening defense and 2016 the same, though the offense shot itself in the foot many times as well. But in 2016, even if the offense hadn't shot itself in the foot repeatedly and had been nearly perfect, the defense would still have cost us several games.

If the Hog offense hadn't totally collapsed in the second half of the Missouri and VTech games last year, the Hogs would have won both games comfortably even with the way the defense played. Even as bad as the defense was, winning those last 2 games would have given the Hogs 9 wins for the year and that would have been acceptable. There were problems on both sides of the ball.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #127 on: April 29, 2017, 08:22:29 am »

If the Hog offense hadn't totally collapsed in the second half of the Missouri and VTech games last year, the Hogs would have won both games comfortably even with the way the defense played. Even as bad as the defense was, winning those last 2 games would have given the Hogs 9 wins for the year and that would have been acceptable. There were problems on both sides of the ball.

Here's the missed opportunities and opportunities handed to Missouri and Va Tech.

Vs. Missouri   
1st Quarter   1st and 10 at Missouri 37. Incompletion, false start penalty, incompletion, sack for -9 yards, punt to Missouri 10 where they fumble, we don't recover.
2nd Quarter   1st and 10 at Missouri 16. Incomplete, run for 8 yards, run for -7 yards, settle for FG.
2nd Quarter   Fumble recovery at Ark 35, completion for 15 yards, incompletion, 20 yard completion, missed FG from Missouri 38.
3rd Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 8 yard line. Run for no gain, run for 5 yards, thrown INT to kill drive at Missouri 3 yard line.
4th Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 4 yard line. Run for 3 yards, run for -1 yard, run for -3 yards, thrown INT to kill drive.
4th Quarter   1st and Goal at Missouri 9 yard line. Incomplete/holding penalty, completion for -1 yard, incompletion, incompletion, sack for 17 yards, intentional grounding.
Points left on the field:    13 to 24
   
Vs. Va Tech   
1st Quarter   1st and 10 at VT 26. Incompletion, 9 yard run, run for -3 yards, settle for FG.
2nd Quarter  1st and 10 at VT 34. Completion for 4 yards, completion for -4 yards, incompletion, punt from VT 34.
3rd Quarter   3rd and 19 at Ark 16, completion for 14 yards, fumble, recovered by VT, 3 plays later VT scores 7.
3rd Quarter   3rd and 10 at Ark 33. Thrown INT at Ark 44. 6 plays later, VT scores another 7.
3rd Quarter   1st and 10 at our own 16. Thrown INT returned to our 5 yard line. 1 play and VT scores 7 more.
4th Quarter   3rd and 17 at our own 17. Thrown INT returned to our 8 yard line. 2 plays later, VT scores 7 more.
Points left on the field:    4 to 10
Points Given Away:   28
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12247

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #128 on: April 29, 2017, 12:38:20 pm »

I posted this on another thread.  FLA had 5 defensive players taken in the first 3 rounds.  The Big 12 had 2 total players taken in the first 2 rounds.  Hey we beat FLA.  Anyway the NFL is considered the overall best place to find the really good players and the SEC usually puts tons of players in the NFL.

As for coaches, though Sumlin has had his share of problems at A&M, he has also had his share of success compared to many other coaches who have coached there.  And he his is 5-0 against us the past 5 years.  As for Malzahn, Sumlin and Bielema, in my opinion, all have under achieved during their time in office.  Malzahn put all is eggs in Johnson's QB basket and Johnson failed.  Malzahn went with him, right down the tubes.  I worry that Malzahn may have righted the ship at Aubbie this year.  Sumlin may be righting the ship at A&M, I am not so sure.  Bielema has the least talent to righting his ship and I worry that he hasn't.  But I do have a feeling that this will be Bielema's best year so far but just barely.
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HotlantaHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #129 on: May 01, 2017, 12:04:42 pm »

The loss to Mizzou last year was just mind numbing and frustrating along with the VT melt down. Other than those 2 losses I still hold to the opinion the Hogs are headed in the right direction and those losses will always be remembered but gradually be diminished in angst.


Would have to throw the Auburn game into the mix as well.
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HotlantaHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #130 on: May 01, 2017, 12:29:25 pm »

There are a lot of people who know more about technical analysis in stocks than I do, but a lot of TA involves following the trend. If a stock is going up, you buy it as long as it stays in the trend; if it is going down, you short it or bet against it with options until it reverses. Most of the time, most stocks tend to follow the trends. People make money this way. I don't recommend it but most trends last longer than people think and are hard to reverse. Those who bet on stocks by buying low often end up having to decide whether to buy more still lower.

It seems like that is often the same with college football. There are teams that break out from long periods of mediocrity --Clemson comes to mind, and Alabama when Saban arrived -- but for the most part teams follow the pattern they are in. They stay in the trend, until it is reversed. Is Georgia going to take the next step under Kirby Smart next year, or will Tennessee suddenly move to a higher plane, or will Mississippi State compete to win the SEC West, or North Carolina win the ACC? Probably no, no, no and no.

Trends don't last forever and they do reverse, but most last a long time and clear reversals are not real common. There is a good reason that all the college football writers basically set their preseason predictions by picking the same teams over and over again. Alabama as No. 1! Well, statistically, they are probably a pretty good pick any year.

Will Arkansas turn things around and start a new trend this year or next? Is a 10- or 11-win season or competing for the SEC West title in the cards? I hope so (I have season tickets and have had for a long time) but the smart money is skeptical.



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Iwastherein1969

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #131 on: May 01, 2017, 01:41:13 pm »

With a 5th year senior QB, that alone is much more than any other team has in the SEC. AA needs to have an excellent year....25 TD passes is okay, 15 picks gets you what the little boy shot at, "Nothing" (as my father used to say may he RIP)
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hawg1221

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #132 on: May 01, 2017, 01:53:43 pm »

Now all of you know that I believe in most of what Bielema is doing here and how he goes about building the overall quality of the program in more ways than just wins, but I will be the first to say that for more than one reason in terms of just wins, we haven't achieved at the level that we might have expected that we would and some of that has to be placed in Bielema's lap. And, some of it has been bad luck along with the mess he inherited. We have blown games that we should have won and we have won a few that we probably deserved to lose based on how we have played at times.

Running a Pro Style offense I think that you have to have more of a experienced level of talent in order to succeed. It tends to be more of a "here we come and we dare you to stop us" kind of offense and that is why it requires better, seasoned and experienced, developed talent. The usual spread, HUNH, throw it all over the field or run it all over the field type of offense with exceptional skill players that is built more on deception, misdirection and score more points than your opponent at a frantic pace, doesn't require as much of an experienced team or as developed of an offensive line as the Pro Style.

So while some want to fault Bielema, this is just his type of Offense and it requires time to develop the level of experience needed to be successful and it takes a prolonged time to develop. They ("they", meaning many fans) would more naturally prefer to short cut their way to more wins by focusing on the more wide open style of offense and the defense just being a added necessity. Add in the bad breaks that all teams tend to experience from time to time and not having hired a better defensive coordinator earlier in the process (this has really been what has held us back from more success) and you can see why we are where we are. How many more games, despite our offensive inconsistency at times, would we have won if we just had an average or above average defense? Not even a stellar defense, just average or above average? This too has to fall at the feet of Bielema.

Overall, he is a good coach, seems to be a good man who genuinely cares about his players as people (not just X's and O's) and he brings a lot of value to our program and the players that doesn't involve on-field wins. Many don't see the value in this. I don't think that there is any doubt that he is painfully aware of his shortcomings and the mistakes that have been made that involve the winning-losing side of college football. He is a prideful man that wants to succeed in that regard (as well as the other facets of the program) just as we want him to succeed.

All that said he is going to need to produce a 10-11 win season every 4-5 years or the majority of regular fans may care a lot less about the rest of his goals with regard to the players and the program. JMO

Good Lord, I couldn't have said it better. I agree 110% about what you just said.
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MJ2

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #133 on: May 02, 2017, 09:01:39 am »

All in all, his tenure has been disappointing here.   SEC is tough, but the progress has been too slow.
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HF#1

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #134 on: May 02, 2017, 12:36:50 pm »

All in all, his tenure has been disappointing here.   SEC is tough, but the progress has been too slow.


This is how any logical person sees Bielema's tenure.
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The ColonelHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #135 on: May 02, 2017, 03:27:40 pm »

A&M has a much higher ceiling as a program. They just don't have the coach. They get that and you might as well go into the season throwing a L by that game based on talent.

I'm not buying the talent argument.  If that was the case, the season would end on National Signing day.  At some point coaches have to coach and players have to perform.  Does A&M have a higher ceiling?  I'm not sure they do but what I'm pretty sure of is that they are about to churn coaches.  I also don't think 9 wins is an impossibility.  Bama is a lose every year til Saban retires and that's the only one I'll concede.  Go 1-2 against Awdarn, LSU with the cheerleader coach, and A&M translates into 9 wins prior to the bowl game.  I don't think that is a stretch to envision.  Ole Piss is back to the same Ole Piss and we have no business losing to State or Missery.  If he can't get 9 wins this season, with a 5th year Sr starting QB and the upper star laden O-Line, when will he ever?  All I'm saying is that 7-6 does not translate into good coaching hires at ANY level, to include the HC.  I think it's a pipe dream to expect a P5 school to accept 7-6 records with 8-5 sprinkled in every 3-4 years.  It's not happening any where in the country and it's not going to happen at the UA.. 7-6 will put CBB in a very precarious situation especially with Chip Kelly lurking in the weeds dying to get back in the game.  Wouldn't shock me if 7-6 gets him the boot, payout and all.  UA would pay it over an extended period of time as is the case with most P5 school buyouts.  Just saying..
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #136 on: May 02, 2017, 03:34:02 pm »

I'm not buying the talent argument.  If that was the case, the season would end on National Signing day.  At some point coaches have to coach and players have to perform.  Does A&M have a higher ceiling?  I'm not sure they do but what I'm pretty sure of is that they are about to churn coaches.  I also don't think 9 wins is an impossibility.  Bama is a lose every year til Saban retires and that's the only one I'll concede.  Go 1-2 against Awdarn, LSU with the cheerleader coach, and A&M translates into 9 wins prior to the bowl game.  I don't think that is a stretch to envision.  Ole Piss is back to the same Ole Piss and we have no business losing to State or Missery.  If he can't get 9 wins this season, with a 5th year Sr starting QB and the upper star laden O-Line, when will he ever?  All I'm saying is that 7-6 does not translate into good coaching hires at ANY level, to include the HC.  I think it's a pipe dream to expect a P5 school to accept 7-6 records with 8-5 sprinkled in every 3-4 years.  It's not happening any where in the country and it's not going to happen at the UA.. 7-6 will put CBB in a very precarious situation especially with Chip Kelly lurking in the weeds dying to get back in the game.  Wouldn't shock me if 7-6 gets him the boot, payout and all.  UA would pay it over an extended period of time as is the case with most P5 school buyouts.  Just saying..

I could not disagree with you more other than the coaches have to coach and players have to perform.  The most talented team usually wins.  You say we have no business losing to OM or MS and that is an archaic way of thinking.  Those programs are right there where we are and you could argue they have a better head coaches.

Chip Kelly will have his pick of schools and damn sure isn't going to pick the U of A when it's hard to recruit and you play the better recruiting programs year in and year out. 

This is a classic case where your expectations do not meet reality.
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LZH

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #137 on: May 02, 2017, 03:38:28 pm »

If he can't get 9 wins this season, with a 5th year Sr starting QB and the upper star laden O-Line, when will he ever?  All I'm saying is that 7-6 does not translate into good coaching hires at ANY level, to include the HC.  I think it's a pipe dream to expect a P5 school to accept 7-6 records with 8-5 sprinkled in every 3-4 years.  It's not happening any where in the country and it's not going to happen at the UA.

Damn skrate.
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The ColonelHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #138 on: May 02, 2017, 03:45:46 pm »

All in all, his tenure has been disappointing here.   SEC is tough, but the progress has been too slow.

I would agree if you left off the too slow part.  I think any fair minded and decent AD should give a coach a minimum of 5 years to fix a broken program, and yes, ours was broken but CBB owns every aspect of this team now.  I don't think a realistic fan expects to dethrone Bama but I do think 8/9 win seasons isn't asking the impossible.  9 wins puts us in the top 25 every year but he better get moving because the pundits are starting to call it Bama and the mediocre SEC.  Once the pundits repeat it enough on TV, away goes the respect for a 3 lose SEC schedule. 
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Gonzo

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #139 on: May 02, 2017, 03:47:22 pm »

This is how any logical person sees Bielema's tenure.

One can logically interpret his first 4 years in a number of ways, not just one. That being said, I do think there needs to be a breakthrough this season or the discontent and pressure will start to reach a fairly significant level, or the apathy, which may be even more dangerous.


Go Hogs!
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The ColonelHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #140 on: May 02, 2017, 04:09:32 pm »

I could not disagree with you more other than the coaches have to coach and players have to perform.  The most talented team usually wins.  You say we have no business losing to OM or MS and that is an archaic way of thinking.  Those programs are right there where we are and you could argue they have a better head coaches.

Chip Kelly will have his pick of schools and damn sure isn't going to pick the U of A when it's hard to recruit and you play the better recruiting programs year in and year out. 

This is a classic case where your expectations do not meet reality.

If we are measuring "most talented" by recruiting rankings, I still have to disagree. There are teams every week in CFB with a lower recruiting ranking beating higher recruiting ranked teams on a pretty constant basis.  Vegas pick favorites based on talent level but who vegas pick as the favorite always win, nobody would gamble.  And i don't think it is archaic to think we should not be losing to schools in Starkville and Oxford.  Talking hard to recruit to those locations, whew.  And if Mullen is the better coach, then our AD needs to address that with CBB.  Also, it's a coaches competitive spirit that allow them to excel.  They want to play the best and I don't think it's a leap to think Kelly would accept the UA job unless Notre Dame comes open, that would be a no brainer.  Or maybe even A&M but there just aren't many high profile jobs out there with a coach in jeopardy.  Timing is everything in the coach hire business and when you have a proven winning coach begging for a job, I don't it would be a stretch to see CBB gone with a 7-6 season.  UA is a top 25 program according to Forbes and trust me, that list means something to coaches.  And I don't buy the "can't recruit players to come to UA."  Talent rich Texas, talent rich LA, Memphis pretty close.  Cherry pick the MS delta..  it can be done.  Maybe the "uncommon" thing isn't working.  Every recruit that visit rate our facilities as some of the best they've seen and they all love the passionate fan base.  So where is the disconnect?
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GuvHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #141 on: May 02, 2017, 04:12:50 pm »

I would agree if you left off the too slow part.  I think any fair minded and decent AD should give a coach a minimum of 5 years to fix a broken program, and yes, ours was broken but CBB owns every aspect of this team now.  I don't think a realistic fan expects to dethrone Bama but I do think 8/9 win seasons isn't asking the impossible.  9 wins puts us in the top 25 every year but he better get moving because the pundits are starting to call it Bama and the mediocre SEC.  Once the pundits repeat it enough on TV, away goes the respect for a 3 lose SEC schedule. 

In this age of College Football, AD's don't normally do that. They normally offer new coaches a 7 year contract with 4 years guaranteed. To stay on after 4 years an HC's team needs to show significant improvement in that 4 year span. CBB is an exception to the rule because his last 2 teams have not shown improvement yet he will get this year (his 5th) and at least 1 more. That's VERY rare.
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #142 on: May 02, 2017, 04:18:04 pm »

If we are measuring "most talented" by recruiting rankings, I still have to disagree. There are teams every week in CFB with a lower recruiting ranking beating higher recruiting ranked teams on a pretty constant basis.  Vegas pick favorites based on talent level but who vegas pick as the favorite always win, nobody would gamble.  And i don't think it is archaic to think we should not be losing to schools in Starkville and Oxford.  Talking hard to recruit to those locations, whew.  And if Mullen is the better coach, then our AD needs to address that with CBB.  Also, it's a coaches competitive spirit that allow them to excel.  They want to play the best and I don't think it's a leap to think Kelly would accept the UA job unless Notre Dame comes open, that would be a no brainer.  Or maybe even A&M but there just aren't many high profile jobs out there with a coach in jeopardy.  Timing is everything in the coach hire business and when you have a proven winning coach begging for a job, I don't it would be a stretch to see CBB gone with a 7-6 season.  UA is a top 25 program according to Forbes and trust me, that list means something to coaches.  And I don't buy the "can't recruit players to come to UA."  Talent rich Texas, talent rich LA, Memphis pretty close.  Cherry pick the MS delta..  it can be done.  Maybe the "uncommon" thing isn't working.  Every recruit that visit rate our facilities as some of the best they've seen and they all love the passionate fan base.  So where is the disconnect?

The disconnect is they drive by other programs with richer tradition and just as good, if not better, facilities on the way to the U of A.  Last time I checked Vegas was thriving, so while you can sometimes pick the dog to cover the spread and be right that doesn't mean the most talented team doesn't usually win. 
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The ColonelHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #143 on: May 02, 2017, 04:41:41 pm »

In this age of College Football, AD's don't normally do that. They normally offer new coaches a 7 year contract with 4 years guaranteed. To stay on after 4 years an HC's team needs to show significant improvement in that 4 year span. CBB is an exception to the rule because his last 2 teams have not shown improvement yet he will get this year (his 5th) and at least 1 more. That's VERY rare.

I agree Guv, it's rare but I think it was fair.  With that said, 7-6 this year isn't going to cut it.  I just don't know what he could sell Long on for a shot at "one more year."  '18 he has to convince Long he can do a better job with a "green" QB.  I think, and it's just my opinion, the timing would be right ala "shiny new stadium, "new QB," I know the buy out goes down after the '18 season but I just don't think Long will wait.  Could be wrong, have been before but will not be surprised if another 7-6 seals his fate after '17 season.  Don't think it will come to that because I think the upward trend will begin this season.  I hope I'm right about the last sentence.  Because further languishing with 7 win seasons will make it that much harder to attract more talented athletes and a proven replacement.  Just think if he waits we will end up with a "risky" hire.
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The ColonelHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #144 on: May 02, 2017, 04:49:06 pm »

The disconnect is they drive by other programs with richer tradition and just as good, if not better, facilities on the way to the U of A.  Last time I checked Vegas was thriving, so while you can sometimes pick the dog to cover the spread and be right that doesn't mean the most talented team doesn't usually win.

Lol!  You are right, Vegas is thriving and in a perfect world the most talented team wins but winning is the only way to dip into a better talent pool.  9-3 can get us into the top 25 playing in the SECW as long as pundits don't tarnish the reputation of the SEC.  I may be wrong but I just feel in my gut, this season we will get us there.  I just think it's now or never.  I'm just not willing to accept mediocrity is the destiny of UA football.  I love my state and the Hogs too much to accept it.  Nice debate! 
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Al Boarland

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #145 on: May 02, 2017, 05:43:40 pm »

Lol!  You are right, Vegas is thriving and in a perfect world the most talented team wins but winning is the only way to dip into a better talent pool.  9-3 can get us into the top 25 playing in the SECW as long as pundits don't tarnish the reputation of the SEC.  I may be wrong but I just feel in my gut, this season we will get us there.  I just think it's now or never.  I'm just not willing to accept mediocrity is the destiny of UA football.  I love my state and the Hogs too much to accept it.  Nice debate!

I wish I shared your gut feeling, but I'm just not there.  And It's not a mediocre program.  It's just in a situation where the deck is stacked against us being in the SECw.  In any other conference we would have a much better perception.
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Rock City Razorback

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #146 on: May 05, 2017, 01:18:23 pm »

I got to thinking about the Ole Piss situation, and how we've dealt with our fair bit of scandal and such around these parts. From the Malzahn drama to the Petrino situation, I'm definitely appreciative of having a coach that is no nonsense and about all the right things. He brings in the right kind of kids and molds them into men. Yes, it was much easier being a Hog fan when we were scoring and dealing L's left and right, but everything's easier when you're winning. It will make the major successes all that much sweeter, and I do they some will come eventually. Regardless, it's nice to have peace of mind about the program. Woo Pig  :razorback:
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GuvHog

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #147 on: May 05, 2017, 03:28:56 pm »

I agree Guv, it's rare but I think it was fair.  With that said, 7-6 this year isn't going to cut it.  I just don't know what he could sell Long on for a shot at "one more year."  '18 he has to convince Long he can do a better job with a "green" QB.  I think, and it's just my opinion, the timing would be right ala "shiny new stadium, "new QB," I know the buy out goes down after the '18 season but I just don't think Long will wait.  Could be wrong, have been before but will not be surprised if another 7-6 seals his fate after '17 season.  Don't think it will come to that because I think the upward trend will begin this season.  I hope I'm right about the last sentence.  Because further languishing with 7 win seasons will make it that much harder to attract more talented athletes and a proven replacement.  Just think if he waits we will end up with a "risky" hire.

There were those that thought Frank did the right thing by keeping Danny Ford for 5 years but by the time he was shown the door (and rightfully so), the program was in total disarray with players threatening to transfer and assistant coaches planning to not return for the 1998 season if Ford was retained. Strangely enough, CBB reminds me of Danny Ford in some ways and not good ones. I agree that 7 wins won't cut it this year.
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Hawgar The Horrible

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #148 on: May 05, 2017, 03:35:20 pm »

There were those that thought Frank did the right thing by keeping Danny Ford for 5 years but by the time he was shown the door (and rightfully so), the program was in total disarray with players threatening to transfer and assistant coaches planning to not return for the 1998 season if Ford was retained. Strangely enough, CBB reminds me of Danny Ford in some ways and not good ones. I agree that 7 wins won't cut it this year.

Care to share those Ford/Bielema similarities? I'm dying to hear them.
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LZH

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Re: Coach Bielema has done a pretty good job
« Reply #149 on: May 05, 2017, 08:09:35 pm »

Care to share those Ford/Bielema similarities? I'm dying to hear them.

Not many, I'm sure. I mean, it only took Bret 4 years to win as many games as Ford did in five (but I'd bet Ford's SEC record was similar if not better......)
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