Burning the Redshirts

[RazorRedneck]

With so many talented newcomers coming in this year how many of them do you think will have their redshirts thrown away so they can go down and make a tackle on kickoffs?

[rricha]

not many because what I have read they do not have many scholies to offer next year so they must be careful

[Oklahawg]

HDN has a track record of playing whomever is deserving of playing time, with an eye to the future unable to see the damage done. Maybe the shakeup in philosophy brought to the staff by Herring will, once again, filter down to this. Consider last year's true freshmen, and ask yourself who was an indispensible part of those 5 wins and a couple of near-win losses:

Harrison, Monk, possibly Grant, and maybe...big maybe...Hillis. I am inclined to think that Hillis wasted a year. Until he learns to block he will be a great college player but not someone who can leave a year early for the NFL. Monk and Harrison are the only true freshmen who showed enough last year to show up on the early-exit radar. Grant (and "Red" Richardson and Dallas Washington) contributed a lot, and had to, but looking back did they do enough to warrant the lost year?

Clearly, HDN thought that a 6-win season was not a stretch (it wasn't) and that losing all the redshirts was a reasonable price to pay. Disturbing trend, though.

[rricha]

remember houston's  ego is in charge not Herring

[RazorRedneck]

I'm not sure but I think Cedric Logan used up his redshirt year as well.  In several publications they have him as a soph.

[I'M EMBARRASSED]

Cedric Logan didn't touch the feild.  Did he?  I'm thinking that they are keeping his redshirt and expecting a medical redshirt for Logan.

[Michael11]

I believe Logan played in the first game!

[Bomis Hawg]

Logan played in a couple of games, I believe.  Plus, the new graduation rule will get you if you don't watch it, which causes teams to sometimes hold off on redshirting.

[idochog]

HDN has a knack for wasting players both by removing the redshirts and by moving them to all kinds of different positions before they graduate.

Either way, HDN does waste alot of talent IMO.

[mikeirwin]

Logan played in a couple of games, I believe. Plus, the new graduation rule will get you if you don't watch it, which causes teams to sometimes hold off on redshirting.

Technically Logan is a sophomore but he is expected to apply for a medical hardship for a 5th year if he doesn't go to the NFL after 4.

[CorningHog]

Logan never touched the field.  He was close but Shibest kept saying he was missing some assignments and was hurt some.

I really can't believe all the ego remarks on Houston.  He is one coach that keeps that in check.  Most people have poor "perceptions" of what is going on around them and then they keep regurgitating this stuff until others believe it.

I just feel sorry for those of you who feel this way.

I have had some regrets on certain players but again, we are not around these guys every day and at every practice.  Houston is, and he should know better than all of us armchair guys who deserves playing time.

You can only get true testing and game experience by going out on the field.  Hillis was getting some valuable touches prior to the injury against Florida.  Not exact on the # of plays, but it would be quite a few for a true frosh rb.

If he had not played the ones mentioned, then you may have heard the grumblings about a 3 win season and a real mess on our hands.  Playing these guys early is not the best method but some of them came to Arkansas for that very reason.  To make hollow promises about the "best" get to play and then getting freshmen here and as they work in preseason and they see they are better than what is here and the coaches follow the fans advice and redshirt them so you get 4 more productive years instead of 3 is going to cause many future recruits to rethink this.

Houston has done an excellent job of getting these guys acclimated to SEC play and although some get to take their lumps early, the sophmore years seem to pay good dividends.

I for one love the fact that he does not just arbitrarily give the "experience" label out and play all the 3rd and 4th or 5th year players.  He actually has been holding them accountable and playing the best.  Herring will add that much more and sometimes I think certain position coaches err on this mentality.  I see Herring actually being more of a risk taker than HDN on this. 

Sometimes I think Shibest demands so much perfection on blocking and route running from these guys at receiver that he should just simplify it and make it a track meet with Baker, Washington and others.  Against Auburn at Fayetteville 2 years ago, Baker was the only one that could get open against their great secondary.  He could just run to open space and get separation and if Jones could have delivered the ball on time he would have had at least 2 TD catches!  Forget all this intricate stuff and blocking or else.  I would send Baker deep almost every play and Washington too on the other side.  Add in a TE drag and Monk over the middle and you would start exploiting some of these secondaries!

Anyway, I just don't see the "wasting" problems you guys see!  Grow up and get real.  You are not seeing reality and stating the case of something that we are not at yet.  When we start getting players that are All-SEC types at several positions with able backups you will start seeing more redshirts across the board.  BUT....with the 85 scholarship limit and injuries as well as losses to grades or early NFL departures like HDN had 2 years ago, you will be in the position we are in now!

No it before you post it!

GO HOGS

[RazorRedneck]

If Logan did not touch the field then why is he a Sophmore?  That should tell you right there his play was a waste...he played and did not even know it.

[mikeirwin]

Logan never touched the field.

From the Razorback Spring Preview:
Cedric Logan played only briefly last season before being sidelined with an injury. Although technically a sophomore, Logan could regain a year of eligibility with a medical hardship down the line."

[rathog1]

I really can't believe all the ego remarks on Houston. He is one coach that keeps that in check. Most people have poor "perceptions" of what is going on around them and then they keep regurgitating this stuff until others believe it.

Uh excuse me!
When a coach who just lost to a team with very questionable play calling says 2 coaches with 4 Super Bowl rings and a NC couldn't have done a better job. I'm thinking he's either an idiot, has a huge ego or both.

[VoR]

Playing these guys early is not the best method but some of them came to Arkansas for that very reason.  To make hollow promises about the "best" get to play and then getting freshmen here and as they work in preseason and they see they are better than what is here and the coaches follow the fans advice and redshirt them so you get 4 more productive years instead of 3 is going to cause many future recruits to rethink this.

says it all, remember how many receivers we lost at the end of Kenny's term, we were always going to have a more balanced offense, promise them the world then forget to deliver, only takes so long before you lose all credibility.

And on the subject of Logan and his lost year, if memory serves me correctly, you can't petition for a medical hardship unlil all elegibility is used up.

And on the point of lost elegibily for the others, I think the point is moot anyways, by everything I have read, I'd say before last years true freshmen make seniors that they'll be elligible for 5 yrs, I'd bet dollars to donuts that before the coaches ever gave their blessing to the 12th game that they'd been given that concession, probably not this year but the year following.

[rricha]

I THINK POOLE IS ELIGIBLE FOR A MEDICAL HARDSHIP AFTER THIS SEASON

[DirkPiggler]

Logan never touched the field.

From the Razorback Spring Preview:
Cedric Logan played only briefly last season before being sidelined with an injury. Although technically a sophomore, Logan could regain a year of eligibility with a medical hardship down the line."

Translation from Nuttspeak:  Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.

It amazes me that the NCAA hasn't cracked down on us for the amount of medical redshirts we have among incoming freshmen.  Nutt plays all but the most obvious redshirts a few games early on in what amounts to a tryout under live game conditions.  Those who don't make the cut almost always develop some mysterious injury and get a medical hardship. 

While on the one hand I applaud Nutt for using the rules to his advantage to do whatever it takes to win, on the other hand it kind of troubles me that he would play so loose with the rules like that.  If he's loose with one rule, why wouldn't he be with other rules, like possibly recruiting?  The only other coach I've heard of that's done the redshirt thing this way is Archie "Gunslinger" Cooley.   

[JoeBobHog]

how does Houston burning redshirts compare to other schools in the SEC?

[Sleestak Hog]

not many because what I have read they do not have many scholies to offer next year so they must be careful

What does burning red-shirts have to do with scholarship limits?

[Swino]

HDN has to play so many freshmen because he doesn't have a legitimate 2 deep, he throws them against the wall and see who sticks.  Gotta do what you gotta do.

[hogsanity]

Redshirting is a double edged sword.  on the one side, if you can repeatedly sing 20 players and redshirt 15 of them, the you eventually get to where Neb was in the 70's and 80's.  You continually have teas that are full of 4th yr Jrs and 5th yr Srs, but.....

on the other side, if you vae a years when recruting, for whatever reason, is bad, or you hvae bunch of injuries at key spots, you end up with no redshirts on a team full of 5th yrs srs who graduate, and suddenly you have a team full of srs and sophs and incoming Fr. 

Look at this years recruiting class, unless something changes or some people leave, we can only sign about 17 players.  How did we end up with so few scholarships available?  Thats what happens when you redshirt a bunch of players for 2 or 3 years in a row, no one graduates and you cant sign people.  Again, if you can do that every year, its fine, but it is heck when you cant.

[Biggus Piggus]

Translation from Nuttspeak: Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.

It amazes me that the NCAA hasn't cracked down on us for the amount of medical redshirts we have among incoming freshmen. Nutt plays all but the most obvious redshirts a few games early on in what amounts to a tryout under live game conditions. Those who don't make the cut almost always develop some mysterious injury and get a medical hardship.

The NCAA has cracked down on the medical redshirts.  It's much harder to get one now.  And Arkansas was one of the prime offenders that prompted the crackdown, just as Heath was named in the crackdown on exhibition games against club teams, for his payback game to Chris Grier while recruiting Olu Famutimi.

Corning, the redshirt issue started with Danny Ford.  If we had had Clint Stoerner in 2000, the transition might have been a lot smoother.  But Nutt has this serial problem with wasting whole years of eligibility on token participation, usually while the coaching staff is in a panicked grope for early season depth.  An extra year out of Fred Talley would have been great.  Imagine how good Jeb Huckeba could have been in a fifth season.  Vickiel Vaughn didn't redshirt.  Zac Tubbs.  It adds up down the line.

[hogsanity]

Translation from Nuttspeak: Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.

It amazes me that the NCAA hasn't cracked down on us for the amount of medical redshirts we have among incoming freshmen. Nutt plays all but the most obvious redshirts a few games early on in what amounts to a tryout under live game conditions. Those who don't make the cut almost always develop some mysterious injury and get a medical hardship.

The NCAA has cracked down on the medical redshirts. It's much harder to get one now. And Arkansas was one of the prime offenders that prompted the crackdown, just as Heath was named in the crackdown on exhibition games against club teams, for his payback game to Chris Grier while recruiting Olu Famutimi.

Corning, the redshirt issue started with Danny Ford. If we had had Clint Stoerner in 2000, the transition might have been a lot smoother. But Nutt has this serial problem with wasting whole years of eligibility on token participation, usually while the coaching staff is in a panicked grope for early season depth. An extra year out of Fred Talley would have been great. Imagine how good Jeb Huckeba could have been in a fifth season. Vickiel Vaughn didn't redshirt. Zac Tubbs. It adds up down the line.

Imagine if Matt Jones had redshirted!!!!!!!!  Yea, he came in and we got 7 wins his Fr year, and we got a big break by OU being in the cotton bowl, so they wanted us for the rivalry and close proximity.  However, imagine if THIS was his SR season, my how things would be different. 

[VoR]

Something doesn't add up here, maybe it's the way I am reading it, but I hear complaining that we don't redshirt enough, but yet we have too few scholarships to offer, with scholarship limitations (85) and you divide that by 5 years you get an average of 17 a year, over 4 years it's 21 1/4, the only way to add to these is either with JUCO's where you get to give the same scholarship twice in a 5 yr. period, or through attrition (transfer, loses scholarship, early exit, or HDN doesn't renew) and with the new rules in place on graduating and grades casualties to academics and clashes of personality can hurt you twice (1st time with the loss of said player, 2nd time with a loss of scholarship due to losing points), and trust me on this, it won't get any better when they allow 5 yrs of eligibility unless they allow more scholarships, and that won't happen because then either schools will have to drop a men's sport or add another women's sport  to appease the Title !X folks. This could help us though from a bassackwards sort of way though, it takes an average of 4 scholarships away each year ALL D-1 schools can offer, I saw on 1 of the other posts where LSU likes around 12 or 13 in state, I would say probably same is true for Tex@$$ and A&M, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Tenn. and most BCS schools where they have enough in-state recruits to pick and choose from, what happens then is there are more of the blue chippers out there to pick and choose from, and programs have to be more selective in who they offer, I know it doesn't happen as much now as it did in the days Bear Bryant and JFB coaching, but there still are scholarships offered not because of filling a need but to keep so and so from getting them, in the long road everyone wins except the top 15-20 recruiting programs year in and year out, oops and did I forget to mention the last 420 or so kids that won't get offered a D-1 scholarship because all the schools would have to drop the amount offered. Well at least we should at least have parity in the NCAA after this, or is it parody, in this case I think we can spell it either way and come up the same.

[JackJohnson]

Translation from Nuttspeak: Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.

It amazes me that the NCAA hasn't cracked down on us for the amount of medical redshirts we have among incoming freshmen. Nutt plays all but the most obvious redshirts a few games early on in what amounts to a tryout under live game conditions. Those who don't make the cut almost always develop some mysterious injury and get a medical hardship.

The NCAA has cracked down on the medical redshirts. It's much harder to get one now. And Arkansas was one of the prime offenders that prompted the crackdown, just as Heath was named in the crackdown on exhibition games against club teams, for his payback game to Chris Grier while recruiting Olu Famutimi.

Corning, the redshirt issue started with Danny Ford. If we had had Clint Stoerner in 2000, the transition might have been a lot smoother. But Nutt has this serial problem with wasting whole years of eligibility on token participation, usually while the coaching staff is in a panicked grope for early season depth. An extra year out of Fred Talley would have been great. Imagine how good Jeb Huckeba could have been in a fifth season. Vickiel Vaughn didn't redshirt. Zac Tubbs. It adds up down the line.

I remember sitting in the stands against South Florida 3 years ago in Little Rock watching in the last 5 minutes of the game when tony ugoh trots out on the field for his first action of the year in a 40 point blowout.  I don't think i remember anything after that other than how many consecutive cusswords i could string together in one run-on sentence.  Those who think  Ugoh will get that "medical hardship" are in for a rude awakening.  Had he not played, he would be a RS Jr and would have to be a consensus all american to leave early, but now he probably won't even get the hardship, and not only that, will he accept it if he does??

wasting true freshman in the HDN tenure:
1998- Gerald Howard, Gary Hobbs, Harold Harris
1999- Sparky Hamilton, Fred Talley, Gary Brashears, Nathan Ball
2000- not enough players even made it past the first year it doesn't even count
2001- Huckeba
2002- Vaughn, Ugoh, John Jackson, Poole, Tubbs, Murphy, Olajubutu, Kennedy
2003- Baker, Harrell, Jackson, Jr.
2004- Bledsoe, Wrighter, Logan, Anderson, Dacus

I have said this before,and will say this again:

1) does HDN still not know the difference between the contribution players can make on special teams and spot play in blowouts as compared to the contribution of 5th year senior

2)  look up and down the list real quick.  Notice how most of those guys were some of our higher rated recruits, and compare that to the impact they were predicted to have vs. the actual impact they have made or will make. 

How much of that can be contributed to a COMPLETELY wasted year??  I don't know the answer to that.  But what i can tell those who say it "makes us look bad that we promise guys playing time then redshirt them":

Which player is going to give the more favorable review when being a player host to a recruit on a visit:

Player A was one of those guys that were wasted:  "yea, coach promised me i could play as a true freshman if i came in and earned it, well i played all right, all of 3 serious in 3 different blow outs against sisters of the poor and a little special teams, and now i am a true soph with only 3 years left"

or

Player B, who was redshirted:  "Yea, coach promised me i could play if i came in ready and earned my spot, but i didn't and was redshirted.  While i didn't like it at first, i got to spend the whole year lifting and running in a college strength program and learning our schemes, and now as a redshirt freshman, i hope to compete for a starting job this year."

Think about it...

[hogsanity]

Something doesn't add up here, maybe it's the way I am reading it, but I hear complaining that we don't redshirt enough, but yet we have too few scholarships to offer, with scholarship limitations (85) and you divide that by 5 years you get an average of 17 a year, over 4 years it's 21 1/4, the only way to add to these is either with JUCO's where you get to give the same scholarship twice in a 5 yr. period, or through attrition (transfer, loses scholarship, early exit, or HDN doesn't renew) and with the new rules in place on graduating and grades casualties to academics and clashes of personality can hurt you twice (1st time with the loss of said player, 2nd time with a loss of scholarship due to losing points), and trust me on this, it won't get any better when they allow 5 yrs of eligibility unless they allow more scholarships, and that won't happen because then either schools will have to drop a men's sport or add another women's sport to appease the Title !X folks. This could help us though from a bassackwards sort of way though, it takes an average of 4 scholarships away each year ALL D-1 schools can offer, I saw on 1 of the other posts where LSU likes around 12 or 13 in state, I would say probably same is true for Tex@$$ and A&M, Bama, Auburn, Georgia, Tenn. and most BCS schools where they have enough in-state recruits to pick and choose from, what happens then is there are more of the blue chippers out there to pick and choose from, and programs have to be more selective in who they offer, I know it doesn't happen as much now as it did in the days Bear Bryant and JFB coaching, but there still are scholarships offered not because of filling a need but to keep so and so from getting them, in the long road everyone wins except the top 15-20 recruiting programs year in and year out, oops and did I forget to mention the last 420 or so kids that won't get offered a D-1 scholarship because all the schools would have to drop the amount offered. Well at least we should at least have parity in the NCAA after this, or is it parody, in this case I think we can spell it either way and come up the same.

I thnk your math is about right.  When you consistently have alot of redshirts around, it does cut into your available scholarships becasue the set up is based on a 4 year deal, so if you have 10 guys playing a 5th year it fouls up the formula.

Teams outside of the 5 big conferences would love to see the limit dropped to 75 or 80, look at all the added talent suddenly available, but how many of the lower d1 schools have 85 guys on full rides now?  How many could afford even 75 or 65.  Especially if it meant adding another womens sport due to titile IX or other mandates given in exchange for lower limits and an added year. 

If anything though, if they add a 5th year, the limit is likely to either stay the same or go up when all the coaches start complaining that a 5th years lowers the number they can sign each year. 

[hogsanity]

Translation from Nuttspeak: Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.


I remember sitting in the stands against South Florida 3 years ago in Little Rock watching in the last 5 minutes of the game when tony ugoh trots out on the field for his first action of the year in a 40 point blowout. I don't think i remember anything after that other than how many consecutive cusswords i could string together in one run-on sentence. Those who think Ugoh will get that "medical hardship" are in for a rude awakening. Had he not played, he would be a RS Jr and would have to be a consensus all american to leave early, but now he probably won't even get the hardship, and not only that, will he accept it if he does??

wasting true freshman in the HDN tenure:
1998- Gerald Howard, Gary Hobbs, Harold Harris
1999- Sparky Hamilton, Fred Talley, Gary Brashears, Nathan Ball
2000- not enough players even made it past the first year it doesn't even count
2001- Huckeba
2002- Vaughn, Ugoh, John Jackson, Poole, Tubbs, Murphy, Olajubutu, Kennedy
2003- Baker, Harrell, Jackson, Jr.
2004- Bledsoe, Wrighter, Logan, Anderson, Dacus

I have said this before,and will say this again:

1) does HDN still not know the difference between the contribution players can make on special teams and spot play in blowouts as compared to the contribution of 5th year senior

2) look up and down the list real quick. Notice how most of those guys were some of our higher rated recruits, and compare that to the impact they were predicted to have vs. the actual impact they have made or will make.

How much of that can be contributed to a COMPLETELY wasted year?? I don't know the answer to that. But what i can tell those who say it "makes us look bad that we promise guys playing time then redshirt them":

Which player is going to give the more favorable review when being a player host to a recruit on a visit:

Player A was one of those guys that were wasted: "yea, coach promised me i could play as a true freshman if i came in and earned it, well i played all right, all of 3 serious in 3 different blow outs against sisters of the poor and a little special teams, and now i am a true soph with only 3 years left"

or

Player B, who was redshirted: "Yea, coach promised me i could play if i came in ready and earned my spot, but i didn't and was redshirted. While i didn't like it at first, i got to spend the whole year lifting and running in a college strength program and learning our schemes, and now as a redshirt freshman, i hope to compete for a starting job this year."

Think about it...

First, you have to have a kid who is WILLING to redshirt, and, if they are needed, take the redshirt off. 

Second, while a year to get ready is important, nothing can prepare you for SEC play except playing in the SEC.  Lets assume your top 2 Dlinemen are SRS and the next best 2 are FR, you have to play them, they have to find out what its like in the SEC because the next year they are starting. 

BTW, Baker could not Redshirt because he spent a year in prep school, so when he came here he only had 4 to play 4. 

[razorbear]

The redshirt can be used in any year prior to completion of 4 years of eligibility, so is the redshirt ever really burnt or is eligibility used up?

[Hoggysoprano]

Translation from Nuttspeak: Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.

It amazes me that the NCAA hasn't cracked down on us for the amount of medical redshirts we have among incoming freshmen. Nutt plays all but the most obvious redshirts a few games early on in what amounts to a tryout under live game conditions. Those who don't make the cut almost always develop some mysterious injury and get a medical hardship.

The NCAA has cracked down on the medical redshirts. It's much harder to get one now. And Arkansas was one of the prime offenders that prompted the crackdown, just as Heath was named in the crackdown on exhibition games against club teams, for his payback game to Chris Grier while recruiting Olu Famutimi.

Corning, the redshirt issue started with Danny Ford. If we had had Clint Stoerner in 2000, the transition might have been a lot smoother. But Nutt has this serial problem with wasting whole years of eligibility on token participation, usually while the coaching staff is in a panicked grope for early season depth. An extra year out of Fred Talley would have been great. Imagine how good Jeb Huckeba could have been in a fifth season. Vickiel Vaughn didn't redshirt. Zac Tubbs. It adds up down the line.

Imagine if Matt Jones had redshirted!!!!!!!! Yea, he came in and we got 7 wins his Fr year, and we got a big break by OU being in the cotton bowl, so they wanted us for the rivalry and close proximity. However, imagine if THIS was his SR season, my how things would be different.

Oh yeah and imagine if Nutt had redshirted Shawn Andrews like he wanted to also.  We would of only gotten three seasons from Matt and two from Shawn. You can't redshirt the guys with NFL type talent, they might leave early anyway.

[JackJohnson]

Translation from Nuttspeak: Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.


I remember sitting in the stands against South Florida 3 years ago in Little Rock watching in the last 5 minutes of the game when tony ugoh trots out on the field for his first action of the year in a 40 point blowout. I don't think i remember anything after that other than how many consecutive cusswords i could string together in one run-on sentence. Those who think Ugoh will get that "medical hardship" are in for a rude awakening. Had he not played, he would be a RS Jr and would have to be a consensus all american to leave early, but now he probably won't even get the hardship, and not only that, will he accept it if he does??

wasting true freshman in the HDN tenure:
1998- Gerald Howard, Gary Hobbs, Harold Harris
1999- Sparky Hamilton, Fred Talley, Gary Brashears, Nathan Ball
2000- not enough players even made it past the first year it doesn't even count
2001- Huckeba
2002- Vaughn, Ugoh, John Jackson, Poole, Tubbs, Murphy, Olajubutu, Kennedy
2003- Baker, Harrell, Jackson, Jr.
2004- Bledsoe, Wrighter, Logan, Anderson, Dacus

I have said this before,and will say this again:

1) does HDN still not know the difference between the contribution players can make on special teams and spot play in blowouts as compared to the contribution of 5th year senior

2) look up and down the list real quick. Notice how most of those guys were some of our higher rated recruits, and compare that to the impact they were predicted to have vs. the actual impact they have made or will make.

How much of that can be contributed to a COMPLETELY wasted year?? I don't know the answer to that. But what i can tell those who say it "makes us look bad that we promise guys playing time then redshirt them":

Which player is going to give the more favorable review when being a player host to a recruit on a visit:

Player A was one of those guys that were wasted: "yea, coach promised me i could play as a true freshman if i came in and earned it, well i played all right, all of 3 serious in 3 different blow outs against sisters of the poor and a little special teams, and now i am a true soph with only 3 years left"

or

Player B, who was redshirted: "Yea, coach promised me i could play if i came in ready and earned my spot, but i didn't and was redshirted. While i didn't like it at first, i got to spend the whole year lifting and running in a college strength program and learning our schemes, and now as a redshirt freshman, i hope to compete for a starting job this year."

Think about it...

First, you have to have a kid who is WILLING to redshirt, and, if they are needed, take the redshirt off.

Second, while a year to get ready is important, nothing can prepare you for SEC play except playing in the SEC. Lets assume your top 2 Dlinemen are SRS and the next best 2 are FR, you have to play them, they have to find out what its like in the SEC because the next year they are starting.

BTW, Baker could not Redshirt because he spent a year in prep school, so when he came here he only had 4 to play 4.

couple of holes in your post:

1) when kids get out of prep school, the beauty of it is they STILL have 5 years to play 4.  We could have done a lot of damage if some of the guys we sent there would have made it back to us and then redshirted.  Can't think of anything better than having 6th year seniors!!

2) when did any of those guys play against SEC competetion.  Last i checked, the ULM, USF, SWMS, etc. of the world weren't quite that good, yet for 99% of those guys listed, that was the only teams they played against, and if they did play in an SEC game as a true frosh, it was special teams.

[JackJohnson]

Translation from Nuttspeak: Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.

It amazes me that the NCAA hasn't cracked down on us for the amount of medical redshirts we have among incoming freshmen. Nutt plays all but the most obvious redshirts a few games early on in what amounts to a tryout under live game conditions. Those who don't make the cut almost always develop some mysterious injury and get a medical hardship.

The NCAA has cracked down on the medical redshirts. It's much harder to get one now. And Arkansas was one of the prime offenders that prompted the crackdown, just as Heath was named in the crackdown on exhibition games against club teams, for his payback game to Chris Grier while recruiting Olu Famutimi.

Corning, the redshirt issue started with Danny Ford. If we had had Clint Stoerner in 2000, the transition might have been a lot smoother. But Nutt has this serial problem with wasting whole years of eligibility on token participation, usually while the coaching staff is in a panicked grope for early season depth. An extra year out of Fred Talley would have been great. Imagine how good Jeb Huckeba could have been in a fifth season. Vickiel Vaughn didn't redshirt. Zac Tubbs. It adds up down the line.

Imagine if Matt Jones had redshirted!!!!!!!! Yea, he came in and we got 7 wins his Fr year, and we got a big break by OU being in the cotton bowl, so they wanted us for the rivalry and close proximity. However, imagine if THIS was his SR season, my how things would be different.

Oh yeah and imagine if Nutt had redshirted Shawn Andrews like he wanted to also. We would of only gotten three seasons from Matt and two from Shawn. You can't redshirt the guys with NFL type talent, they might leave early anyway.

can't bring "mights" into the equation.  No one EVER said that Andrews, Jones, Batman, Cobbs, or those guys were burned.  If you are going to use true freshman, THAT is how you use them.  If a guy is legitimately on the two deep all year and plays significant time in every game, then use them.  if they can't do it, then they need to be redshirted.  Period, end of discussion

[Hoggysoprano]

Translation from Nuttspeak: Logan played in the first game, and we found out that he wasn't ready, so he developed an injury and will get a medical hardship.

It amazes me that the NCAA hasn't cracked down on us for the amount of medical redshirts we have among incoming freshmen. Nutt plays all but the most obvious redshirts a few games early on in what amounts to a tryout under live game conditions. Those who don't make the cut almost always develop some mysterious injury and get a medical hardship.

The NCAA has cracked down on the medical redshirts. It's much harder to get one now. And Arkansas was one of the prime offenders that prompted the crackdown, just as Heath was named in the crackdown on exhibition games against club teams, for his payback game to Chris Grier while recruiting Olu Famutimi.

Corning, the redshirt issue started with Danny Ford. If we had had Clint Stoerner in 2000, the transition might have been a lot smoother. But Nutt has this serial problem with wasting whole years of eligibility on token participation, usually while the coaching staff is in a panicked grope for early season depth. An extra year out of Fred Talley would have been great. Imagine how good Jeb Huckeba could have been in a fifth season. Vickiel Vaughn didn't redshirt. Zac Tubbs. It adds up down the line.

Imagine if Matt Jones had redshirted!!!!!!!! Yea, he came in and we got 7 wins his Fr year, and we got a big break by OU being in the cotton bowl, so they wanted us for the rivalry and close proximity. However, imagine if THIS was his SR season, my how things would be different.

Oh yeah and imagine if Nutt had redshirted Shawn Andrews like he wanted to also. We would of only gotten three seasons from Matt and two from Shawn. You can't redshirt the guys with NFL type talent, they might leave early anyway.

can't bring "mights" into the equation. No one EVER said that Andrews, Jones, Batman, Cobbs, or those guys were burned. If you are going to use true freshman, THAT is how you use them. If a guy is legitimately on the two deep all year and plays significant time in every game, then use them. if they can't do it, then they need to be redshirted. Period, end of discussion

Nutt tried to not use Andrews even though it was obvious he was the best we had.  He used everyone but Jones at QB against UNLV and nealy lost the game. I agree you go with the best you've got, but you are preaching to the choir, tell Nutt.

[Oklahawg]

The redshirt situation is complicated by the point Hoggy makes--what if you lose a kid to the NFL who "wasted" a year redshirting--and by the every-tightening NCAA academic regulations. Baker didn't make sense as a redshirt because the academics that landed him at Hargrave almost kept him from UA in try #2, and could eventually catch up with him yet. Not wanting it, and I have no insider info here, but you have to look at this pragmatically.

If you bring in a JUCO player you have to assume that the experience they got in JUCO ball is enough to avoid a redshirt for developmental reasons. Redshirting a JUCO player (if they are eligible to do so) indicates you screwed up your evaluation of that player.

[Biggus Piggus]

The redshirt situation is complicated by the point Hoggy makes--what if you lose a kid to the NFL who "wasted" a year redshirting--and by the every-tightening NCAA academic regulations. Baker didn't make sense as a redshirt because the academics that landed him at Hargrave almost kept him from UA in try #2, and could eventually catch up with him yet. Not wanting it, and I have no insider info here, but you have to look at this pragmatically.

No, no, NO!  The problem has been wasting a year in which the kid could be focusing on the weight room and academics, instead of being on the travel roster part of the year and standing around trying to absorb stuff as it's flying by.  Getting on the field for a few meaningless snaps before the coaches reconsider (and as they did many times, manufacture a medical excuse).  None of the guys who really wasted a year left early for the pros.  We would get more out of them sooner if we better prepared them instead of this idiotic annual merry go round.

[Biggus Piggus]

Something doesn't add up here, maybe it's the way I am reading it, but I hear complaining that we don't redshirt enough, but yet we have too few scholarships to offer

Nope, you're mixing stuff.  We wasted possible redshirt years in the past that depleted the team particularly in 2004.  Our roster is weighted heavily toward players signed in the last two years.  Some of our senior starters this year did not redshirt and played little as freshmen.  That will hurt us next year.  Last year's redshirt class is the same size as our sophomore, junior and senior classes.  Should tell you something.

People don't seem to be getting this.  Good programs do not waste an entire year of eligibility on two or three plays.  Not games, PLAYS.  Nutt has done this year after year.  It is a byproduct of massive disorganization.  More examples of easy stuff to fix before Nutt is allowed to give up on being anything but average.

[Hoggysoprano]

Something doesn't add up here, maybe it's the way I am reading it, but I hear complaining that we don't redshirt enough, but yet we have too few scholarships to offer

Nope, you're mixing stuff.  We wasted possible redshirt years in the past that depleted the team particularly in 2004.  Our roster is weighted heavily toward players signed in the last two years.  Some of our senior starters this year did not redshirt and played little as freshmen.  That will hurt us next year.  Last year's redshirt class is the same size as our sophomore, junior and senior classes.  Should tell you something.

People don't seem to be getting this.  Good programs do not waste an entire year of eligibility on two or three plays.  Not games, PLAYS.  Nutt has done this year after year.  It is a byproduct of massive disorganization. More examples of easy stuff to fix before Nutt is allowed to give up on being anything but average.

This is true, I was only speaking of players like Andrews and Jones, guys who were ready to play from day 1.

[idochog]

Something doesn't add up here, maybe it's the way I am reading it, but I hear complaining that we don't redshirt enough, but yet we have too few scholarships to offer

Nope, you're mixing stuff.  We wasted possible redshirt years in the past that depleted the team particularly in 2004.  Our roster is weighted heavily toward players signed in the last two years.  Some of our senior starters this year did not redshirt and played little as freshmen.  That will hurt us next year.  Last year's redshirt class is the same size as our sophomore, junior and senior classes.  Should tell you something.

People don't seem to be getting this.  Good programs do not waste an entire year of eligibility on two or three plays.  Not games, PLAYS.  Nutt has done this year after year.  It is a byproduct of massive disorganization. More examples of easy stuff to fix before Nutt is allowed to give up on being anything but average.

Something doesn't add up here, maybe it's the way I am reading it, but I hear complaining that we don't redshirt enough, but yet we have too few scholarships to offer

Nope, you're mixing stuff. We wasted possible redshirt years in the past that depleted the team particularly in 2004. Our roster is weighted heavily toward players signed in the last two years. Some of our senior starters this year did not redshirt and played little as freshmen. That will hurt us next year. Last year's redshirt class is the same size as our sophomore, junior and senior classes. Should tell you something.

People don't seem to be getting this. Good programs do not waste an entire year of eligibility on two or three plays. Not games, PLAYS. Nutt has done this year after year. It is a byproduct of massive disorganization. More examples of easy stuff to fix before Nutt is allowed to give up on being anything but average.

This is true, I was only speaking of players like Andrews and Jones, guys who were ready to play from day 1.

As awesome of talent that Jones and Andrews were it took HDN 6 games to get them both on the field.

[rricha]

It is bad when you have count on freshmen to play.  I know some will have enough skills to play and some Will surprise you and move  up on the depth chart.

[Hoggysoprano]

Something doesn't add up here, maybe it's the way I am reading it, but I hear complaining that we don't redshirt enough, but yet we have too few scholarships to offer

Nope, you're mixing stuff.  We wasted possible redshirt years in the past that depleted the team particularly in 2004.  Our roster is weighted heavily toward players signed in the last two years.  Some of our senior starters this year did not redshirt and played little as freshmen.  That will hurt us next year.  Last year's redshirt class is the same size as our sophomore, junior and senior classes.  Should tell you something.

People don't seem to be getting this.  Good programs do not waste an entire year of eligibility on two or three plays.  Not games, PLAYS.  Nutt has done this year after year.  It is a byproduct of massive disorganization. More examples of easy stuff to fix before Nutt is allowed to give up on being anything but average.

This is true, I was only speaking of players like Andrews and Jones, guys who were ready to play from day 1.

Andrews was gifted but even he missed some assignments when he first began playing. He may not have been ready from Day 1 but that was Markuson's call not Nutt. But go ahead and blame Nutt because it gives you pleasure

Did I mention Nutt?