Nolan's first season: 12-16. Stan's first: 9-19. Pel's first: 13-5. STOP WHINING

[mathhog]

Nolan's debut in league play: 4-12
Stan's  debut in league play: 4-12
Pel's  debut  in league  play: 2-2 so far.

Get over your gripes.  If he's horrible in 4 years, can him.

Give the man a break.

[cthog99]

and nutt was 9-3. how did that work out in the long run? can't judge a coach given 1 year.

[ColonelNutt]

and nutt was 9-3. how did that work out in the long run?

beat me to it.  +100

[dclay89]

and nutt was 9-3. how did that work out in the long run?

football comparison to basketball? now thats logic right thur! root doot ska doot! i would hate to live my life thinking the same way u do..


annnd my +1 goes tooooooo.... mathhog

[chiefsfan]

and nutt was 9-3. how did that work out in the long run?

Here we go with the Pelphrey to Nutt comparisons again.   You cant compare those two

[Milton]

and nutt was 9-3. how did that work out in the long run?

can't compare 2 sports, -1 for that, +1 to mathog for doing good reasearch to back up what he stands for.

[Porkem]

Amen mathhog...I'm a big Pel fan...support him all the way.

We just have players who turn the ball over way too much and miss free throws.

Just wish we could have the Appalachian St. and S. Carolina games back.

Georgia is not that good...but all SEC games are tough on the road.

We get better players in here...Pelphrey will win games.

[cthog99]

i'm not comparing the 2. i'm just saying you cannot judge a coach on 1 season. give a coach time to introduce his system, get his players in and if we are losing to georgia and south carolina in a couple years, then it'l be time to go after pel strongly

[hogballplayer30]

and nutt was 9-3. how did that work out in the long run?

How are you going to compare that to this?  Basketball to football?  Nutt to Pel?  That is a very invalid statement.

[Milton]

you did compare them by comparing their first season, which again you can't compare 2 differn't sports

[ColonelNutt]

Can someone answer me this:

What exactly has Pelphrey done to earn this free pass you guys are giving him this year? 

The guy was 7th choice to be hired and he's getting paid what he's worth ~$500k per year which puts him at or near the bottom of the conference in pay.  History has shown you get what you pay for.  Why such blind loyalty? He's not even doing a good job.  So far, his team is mediocre at best and at worst, worse than last year.  At least Heath had the respect of his players and they played for him.  That's the most basic characteristic a coach needs to do his job. 

The administration could hire Elmer Fudd and you guys would have your heads up his rear end too.

[dclay89]

i'm not comparing the 2. i'm just saying you cannot judge a coach on 1 season. give a coach time to introduce his system, get his players in and if we are losing to georgia and south carolina in a couple years, then it'l be time to go after pel strongly

The whole reason of mathhog's post was to tell people not to judge a coach on 1 season.. so if that's what u meant by ur first post im sorry, but u just shouldn't have said anything cuz mathhogs post says it all for u...

[chiefsfan]

What exactly has Pelphrey done to earn this free pass you guys are giving him this year? 

only recruit the #6 rated recruiting class in the country with the first pure shooter, and true point guard that this school has had in 6 years.

Only equal Stan Heath's road win totals from last year...in 12 less games

would you like me to continue, there are a few more...

[Milton]

Can someone answer me this:

What exactly has Pelphrey done to earn this free pass you guys are giving him this year? 

The guy was 7th choice to be hired and he's getting paid what he's worth ~$500k per year which puts him at or near the bottom of the conference in pay.  History has shown you get what you pay for.  Why such blind loyalty? He's not even doing a good job.  So far, his team is mediocre at best and at worst, worse than last year.  At least Heath had the respect of his players and they played for him.  That's the most basic characteristic a coach needs to do his job. 

The administration could hire Elmer Fudd and you guys would have your heads up his rear end too.

I am not giving him a free pass but like the post topic is you can't judge a coach on 1 year. I always let coaches get their type of players in before I make my judgement on them.

[dclay89]

Can someone answer me this:

What exactly has Pelphrey done to earn this free pass you guys are giving him this year? 

The guy was 7th choice to be hired and he's getting paid what he's worth ~$500k per year which puts him at or near the bottom of the conference in pay.  History has shown you get what you pay for.  Why such blind loyalty? He's not even doing a good job.  So far, his team is mediocre at best and at worst, worse than last year.  At least Heath had the respect of his players and they played for him.  That's the most basic characteristic a coach needs to do his job. 

The administration could hire Elmer Fudd and you guys would have your heads up his rear end too.

omg, hogville would be a better place without these kind of "feminine tool" posts... get YOUR head out of Heath's rear end.. His team is mediocre because they have been coached that way for 3 years..

read less, post less.. just stick to the USF message board

[dclay89]

only recruit the #6 rated recruiting class in the country with the first pure shooter, and true point guard that this school has had in 6 years.

Only equal Stan Heath's road win totals from last year...in 12 less games

would you like me to continue, there are a few more...

i wish i could give u +100

[cthog99]

okay, i tried to think of another unproven young coach who took over a big program and i found one in billy donavan. he spent two years at marshall without winning anything (2 winning seasons) and then took over for florida. he had 2 losing seasons to begin, but he was given time and look how that turned out. now, i am not saying pel is donavan, i am just putting that comparison out there

[chiefsfan]

okay, i tried to think of another unproven young coach who took over a big program and i found one in billy donavan. he spent two years at marshall without winning anything (2 winning seasons) and then took over for florida. he had 2 losing seasons to begin, but he was given time and look how that turned out. now, i am not saying pel is donavan, i am just putting that comparison out there

and Pelphrey had 2 20+ wins seasons at South Alabama compared to what Donovan did at Marshall;  He put South Alabama in the NCAA's for the first time since I was in the 7th grade

[ColonelNutt]

only recruit the #6 rated recruiting class in the country with the first pure shooter, and true point guard that this school has had in 6 years.

Only equal Stan Heath's road win totals from last year...in 12 less games

would you like me to continue, there are a few more...

Rivals has the class ranked #14th. Where are you seeing a 6th ranked recruiting class?

[Oliver]

I think the Pelphrey-Nolan first year comparison is fair.  I don't think the Heath-Pelphrey first year comparison is fair.  Heath didn't inherit a team full of seniors that made the NCAA Tournament the prior year.

[dclay89]

Rivals has the class ranked #14th. Where are you seeing a 6th ranked recruiting class?

i believe we lost one of our players who was signed due to academics, yet we have a juco transfer in Daniel Payne as well.. dont know if the juco goes on the recruiting ranks or not.... correct me someone if im wrong on any of this...

[chiefsfan]

Rivals has the class ranked #14th. Where are you seeing a 6th ranked recruiting class?

ESPN few weeks ago

[chiefsfan]

I think the Pelphrey-Nolan first year comparison is fair.  I don't think the Heath-Pelphrey first year comparison is fair.  Heath didn't inherit a team full of seniors that made the NCAA Tournament the prior year.

This I will agree with.  Although I do need to point out that there are people who are saying Pelphrey should lose his job alone for losing to App State.  Yet Heath lost to mid majors at home in his first 2 seasons.   I will compare this

[pigbreath]

I like Pel, but to be fair, Stan didn't have much to work with his first year, and I don't remember what Nolan had in his first year. I do agree that all is not lost, but losing to teams you're supposed to beat brings up this kind of banter, and the only thing that will end it, is beating some top 25 teams, and winning a game or two in the ncaa's. Jmo.

[FelixJonesorDMAC?]

I think the Pelphrey-Nolan first year comparison is fair.  I don't think the Heath-Pelphrey first year comparison is fair.  Heath didn't inherit a team full of seniors that made the NCAA Tournament the prior year.

you mean 2 years in a row.  I'm all about Pel being a great coach, but dude.....you've got the most experience class.

Nutthugers:  But their not his players, they don't know his system.
Me:  STFU, they made it to the tourny two years in a row.  Do BETTER!!!!

[chiefsfan]

you mean 2 years in a row.  I'm all about Pel being a great coach, but dude.....you've got the most experience class.

Nutthugers:  But their not his players, they don't know his system.
Me:  STFU, they made it to the tourny two years in a row.  Do BETTER!!!!

having 6 seniors is more of a curse then a blessing in college basketball these days

[blacksuit]

The players still play the games. You hope to see improvement from year to year, but sometimes average players don't get better between their junior and senior years.

There are things to be happy about: our new coach is setting the right tone, we came out of our non-conference schedule with a few quality wins, we've won a conference road game, the recruiting looks good.

This team has three glaring personnel flaws: no true point guard, no dangerous 3 pt shooter to get teams out of the 2-3 zone, and no complete big man. Not one, but two of those holes will be filled next season. The front court is going to be iffy, depends on whether the new guys are more like Tyrus Thomas or Cyrus McGowan. I'm not sold on Washington.

[FelixJonesorDMAC?]

having 6 seniors is more of a curse then a blessing in college basketball these days

well bench em then.  quick....and easy.

[dclay89]

having 6 seniors is more of a curse then a blessing in college basketball these days

Exactly, if experience mattered they would be in the NBA by now.. but sadly for them u have to have talent and ability...

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Nolan's debut in league play: 4-12
Stan's  debut in league play: 4-12
Pel's  debut  in league  play: 2-2 so far.

Get over your gripes.  If he's horrible in 4 years, can him.

Give the man a break.

Great post.  John Wooden himself couldn't win with Hill and Ervin.

[HawgAdvocate]

I think the Pelphrey-Nolan first year comparison is fair.  I don't think the Heath-Pelphrey first year comparison is fair.  Heath didn't inherit a team full of seniors that made the NCAA Tournament the prior year.

Hey yo Oliver, consider this, Heath's first group of seniors that he inherited weren't any better under him than they were the last year before Nolan left. No improvement. Baker, Lane, Gomez, Satchell, all useless as the day was long. That team relied on freshman (Modica, Ferguson) to make them a .500 ball team at best. But those freshman moved the program in the right direction, followed by a stud class (Brewer, Faumutimi) that eventually made the Tourney.

So why is it so odd to understand that Pelphrey's first group of seniors that he inherited aren't any better either than they were the year before under Heath? They'll still going the same pace they were last year, needing a late season run to turn it around, but making the tourney. Is it to far-fetched to believe that this next large class (Fortson, Clarke, Payne) can eventually move beyond the current level of NCAA first and dones where Heath left us?

Heath would have been a perennial winner here if he could keep the respect of his players and recruited a point guard. But he couldn't do either, so he's gone. Seems to me that Pelphrey is recruiting just as well in his first season at Arkansas.

Would it hurt your brain to also consider the fact that, when looking at the seniors on both Pelphrey and Heath's first teams, that some kids just don't have some intangible switch that you can flick to make them all suddenly so much damn better in six months before tipoff, not to mention when you've also got to bust ass to try and sign 6 kids, that they've never spoken to, before November 1. Not two kids, not four kids...six.

Yet you wanna pick up your toys and go home after 18 games? That's cool. Razorback basketball keeps goin whether you wanna enjoy it or not.

[hawgsav1]

and nutt was 9-3. how did that work out in the long run?

Nutt was a frickin exception to the rule.  Don't deny it.  That first season EVERYONE was all over Nutt's jock.  He brought excitement back to the program.  He just didn't sustain it.  Jeez.

[dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya]

Nutt was a frickin exception to the rule.  Don't deny it.  That first season EVERYONE was all over Nutt's jock.  He brought excitement back to the program.  He just didn't sustain it.  Jeez.

I was embarrassed to have him as our head coach from day one.

[hawgsav1]

I was embarrassed to have him as our head coach from day one.

Very well, Nutt turned out to be a bad hire.  Agree with you there.  However, I was making a point that you cannot compare Nutt's and Pelphrey's hiring, nor can you say that Nutt's situation with us is a reason to fire a coach who is 13-5 in his first year.  THe original post is a valid one.  Sometimes all the fans need to have is patience.  It's difficult to turn a squad around and change styles.  Give Pelphrey a chance is all I am saying.  Yes he does deserve some of the responsibility for the bad losses that we've had.  However, that doesnt' make him a bad hire or someone who should be fired yet. 

[cthog99]

i dont want to compare the 2. intention was that you can't judge a head coach by what he does in his 1st season.

[hawgsav1]

i dont want to compare the 2. intention was that you can't judge a head coach by what he does in his 1st season.

Ok my bad for the misunderstanding, but completely agree with you on that one.

[Razorback88]

Rivals has the class ranked #14th. Where are you seeing a 6th ranked recruiting class?

The quantity of our class has a lot more to do with that #14 ranking than the quality.  I am really glad we're getting some guards in here, though.

[Smokehouse]

Rivals has the class ranked #14th. Where are you seeing a 6th ranked recruiting class?

this is pretty nit-picky, #14 is pretty dang good for a coach just coming in, especially after the embarrassing search you mentioned. You're avoiding the main point here.

as with your other thread, comparing Nutt to Pel makes absolutely no sense on any level.

[Fatman]

Guys give him a chance!! It is easy to see we still have some whiners on the team and Townes is in trouble again!! I think we will be fine and Pel will get the job done. At least he has the fire to compete and it is outward where we can see it. We will win some games this year just because of him that we would have easily lost last year!!!!

[idiotghos]

can't compare 2 sports

I'd say that they can be compared in the sense that one can see from both that you can't judge a coach based on one season.  Look at Larry Coker.  Look at Tubby.  Look at Nolan.  Look at Rich Rodriguez.

[joeyself]

Exactly, if experience mattered they would be in the NBA by now.. but sadly for them u have to have talent and ability...

I've heard that over and over, and it's baloney.

How many players are good in college but can't quite make the pros?  And basketball, being a team sport, can have a team full of good-but-not-great-individual players and win at that level.

The players that are seniors and contributing (leaving Hunter out of this) should be playing better even if they aren't going to be playing for a paycheck in that elite group of athletes in the NBA next year.   Hill should be able to rebound, Townes should be able to defend, Weems and Ervin shouldn't be turnovers waiting to happen.   Even with those skills, none of those players were going to jump to the pros before they were seniors, yet when they play together well, it's a good team.

I think the problem is that Pelphery is a bit stubborn about his system.  He's got some square pegs that won't fit into his round hole, and that should have been evident to him when he realized he didn't have a point guard capable of doing the job.   Trying to make this team be an uptempo squad was not the best move if the goal was to win this year.  If the goal was to demonstrate to recruits that he meant what he said, then yes, it's fine.  But to win this year, the whole thing needs to be slowed down a bit, kept under control and then try to turn it loose next year.

All that said, I will readily admit that Pelphery knows more about coaching basketball in general and his team in particular than I ever will.  It may be this squad couldn't do ANY kind of system well without better guard play at the point, and rather than fight the inevitable, he's letting Beverley, Walsh and Washington see what is in store for them next year.

JcS

[dclay89]

I've heard that over and over, and it's baloney.

How many players are good in college but can't quite make the pros?  And basketball, being a team sport, can have a team full of good-but-not-great-individual players and win at that level.

The players that are seniors and contributing (leaving Hunter out of this) should be playing better even if they aren't going to be playing for a paycheck in that elite group of athletes in the NBA next year.   Hill should be able to rebound, Townes should be able to defend, Weems and Ervin shouldn't be turnovers waiting to happen.   Even with those skills, none of those players were going to jump to the pros before they were seniors, yet when they play together well, it's a good team.

I think the problem is that Pelphery is a bit stubborn about his system.  He's got some square pegs that won't fit into his round hole, and that should have been evident to him when he realized he didn't have a point guard capable of doing the job.   Trying to make this team be an uptempo squad was not the best move if the goal was to win this year.  If the goal was to demonstrate to recruits that he meant what he said, then yes, it's fine.  But to win this year, the whole thing needs to be slowed down a bit, kept under control and then try to turn it loose next year.

All that said, I will readily admit that Pelphery knows more about coaching basketball in general and his team in particular than I ever will.  It may be this squad couldn't do ANY kind of system well without better guard play at the point, and rather than fight the inevitable, he's letting Beverley, Walsh and Washington see what is in store for them next year.

JcS

i was simply stating talent and ability plays a bigger role than experience..

[The_Iceman]

pelphrey is trying to run a Nolan style system with Big 10 style players.

Give him the 4 years to get his players in here, and if he still performs badly, then fire him.

[HogFansReunited]

Nolan's debut in league play: 4-12
Stan's  debut in league play: 4-12
Pel's  debut  in league  play: 2-2 so far.

Get over your gripes.  If he's horrible in 4 years, can him.

Give the man a break.

I agree.  This is his first season here and he is trying to teach a system to players that are not that great.  Look at the recruiting class Pel is bringing in this year.  We are going to be a great basketball team again within the next 2 years.

[40MINSOFHELL]

I agree.  This is his first season here and he is trying to teach a system to players that are not that great.  Look at the recruiting class Pel is bringing in this year.  We are going to be a great basketball team again within the next 2 years.

I agree with you. 2010 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS, this makes the 20th time i have said this lol

[joeyself]

pelphrey is trying to run a Nolan style system with Big 10 style players.

Give him the 4 years to get his players in here, and if he still performs badly, then fire him.

Which is the basis for my question: Is it good coaching to try to do that--run a system that is not compatible with the athletes on board?

I understand being convinced how a system is superior and committed to it--when it can work.

It's sort of like the coach that simply will not play zone, no matter what the other team can do against a man (or can't do against a zone).  I find that to be ridiculous, a sort of "impose my will" on the other team approach.

I didn't like it with Houston Nutt, and I question it with Pelphery this season.  But only for this season.

JcS

[HogFansReunited]

Which is the basis for my question: Is it good coaching to try to do that--run a system that is not compatible with the athletes on board?

I understand being convinced how a system is superior and committed to it--when it can work.

It's sort of like the coach that simply will not play zone, no matter what the other team can do against a man (or can't do against a zone).  I find that to be ridiculous, a sort of "impose my will" on the other team approach.

I didn't like it with Houston Nutt, and I question it with Pelphery this season.  But only for this season.

JcS

If he starts coaching the players to play a "big 10" type system then that is what the new players coming in will learn too.  He has to start teaching his system now and we have to accept a few down years until he gets the players that he needs to run his system.

[Throwback1]

Nolan's debut in league play: 4-12
Stan's  debut in league play: 4-12
Pel's  debut  in league  play: 2-2 so far.

Get over your gripes.  If he's horrible in 4 years, can him.

Give the man a break.

exactly...TY

[joeyself]

If he starts coaching the players to play a "big 10" type system then that is what the new players coming in will learn too.  He has to start teaching his system now and we have to accept a few down years until he gets the players that he needs to run his system.

As I said in an earlier note, I understand if this season is Pelphery's way to showing the world--including recruits--that he is committed to the system he was touted to run.  My point is that for THIS group of players, the uptempo is doomed to fail as long as the point guard can't play any better than what we've seen to this stage of the season.

We shouldn't expect any better with these players in this system.

JcS

[chiefsfan]

As I said in an earlier note, I understand if this season is Pelphery's way to showing the world--including recruits--that he is committed to the system he was touted to run.  My point is that for THIS group of players, the uptempo is doomed to fail as long as the point guard can't play any better than what we've seen to this stage of the season.

We shouldn't expect any better with these players in this system.

JcS

But does it really matter to anyone at all whether or not this team makes the NCAA's and goes 1 or 2 and done?  Id much prefer playing Pel's system, so the players who will be back next year will know it well so they can teach the new players how it works