What's the blueprint for a championship team?

[ColumbianHog]

This is a spawn off another thread...

What's the blueprint for a NCAA championship team?  Is there a specific style of play that will get you there quicker than another?  A particular style of player? 

Do you have to have a team of future NBA stars to be successful or can you have 1-2 superstars and the rest made up of role players?

Do the players need to be long and quick athletes or can you win with solid fundamentally sound but not so athletic guys?



Let's hear your opinions!

[Held Hawgstage]

To win today...you need a 6-11-7ft center. A 6-10 no less than 6-9 power forward. One of them has to be an offensive threat. At least one of them has to be a defensive threat. Both must be able to rebound the ball. You need at least a 6-8 to 6-9 small forward with range, handles, lock down defender, creates his own shot, a rebounder. Ideally your two guard should be 6'5 to 6-7 with the same attributes of the small forward but a deadly shooter. If you go smaller he better be a GREAT SHOOTER and you should have a larger point to make up for his height on the defensive end. A point that's PASS FIRST, can create off the dribble, get to the hole, knock down the three and create steals. You should be able to go three deep off the bench, with a player that can play both center and power forward, a player that can play both small forward or power forward or small forward and shooting guard, and a point guard that can play the two. You have to be able to mix it up offensively and defensively and most importantly, play smart and with heart.

Just to get things started.

[Lanlord]

First and foremost they must play together as a team.  Second they must move without the ball. And third they must have talent.  You can't teach talent.

[ColumbianHog]

To win today...you need a 6-11-7ft center. A 6-10 no less than 6-9 power forward. One of them has to be an offensive threat. At least one of them has to be a defensive threat. Both must be able to rebound the ball. You need at least a 6-8 to 6-9 small forward with range, handles, lock down defender, creates his own shot, a rebounder. Ideally your two guard should be 6'5 to 6-7 with the same attributes of the small forward but a deadly shooter. If you go smaller he better be a GREAT SHOOTER and you should have a larger point to make up for his height on the defensive end. A point that's PASS FIRST, can create off the dribble, get to the hole, knock down the three and create steals. You should be able to go three deep off the bench, with a player that can play both center and power forward, a player that can play both small forward or power forward or small forward and shooting guard, and a point guard that can play the two. You have to be able to mix it up offensively and defensively and most importantly, play smart and with heart.

Just to get things started.

Okay, let's take your blueprint.  Where do the Hogs fit and where do they fall short?

Looks like we're missing the size in the backcourt.  PBev and GE only go about 6'0" to 6'1".  PBev rebounds surprisingly well for his size though.  Mainly because he hustles so much.  GE is a decent PG when he takes his foot off the accelerator.  He was getting better as the year went on.

Hill is the 7'0" defender you mention.  Washington could be the 6'10" PF with defensive and offensive skills.

Weems is a bit smaller than you mentioned for a SF but he's lightning quick and can definitely create his own shot.

Thoughts?

[Held Hawgstage]

If only Pat could play the point....he has to develop these skills to get major tick at the next level. Ben Gordon is an anomaly in todays game. If he cannot develop into a point he will need to be more of a Lindsey Hunter/Bobby Jackson type. I don't care what anyone says...Weems is a 2/3 but I see him as a two. We have to get him in the open floor, set some screens to get him open. He is our #1 option. Hands down.

Ideally, if Bev could play point I would love to see him at the point, Weems at the 2, Washington (if he worked on his lateral movement and ball handling) at the 3, Townes (if he worked on attacking the rim) at the 4 and Hill for sure at the 5. I would love to see Welsh, Thomas, and either McGowan or Sanchez off the bench. Rakestraw if he's consistent and athletic enough. Again ideally.

Realistically, we are going to have to go with GE, Pat, Weems, Washington, and Hill starting. But I like the bench of Thomas, Townes, Welsh. But I tell you what....I wouldn't mind seeing Welsh at the point. But GE drives me absolutely crazy at times. You never know what you are getting but I like his attacks to the rim ....when he decides to. Most of the time I found myself watching him take a shot and I'm like NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He made it....He made it!!!!!!!!!!

I also like the initial reports that Britt is a combo guard. I like his height. I have not heard anything about his game. I wish I could get an objective report on his skillsets.

[ColumbianHog]

But GE drives me absolutely crazy at times. You never know what you are getting but I like his attacks to the rim ....when he decides to. Most of the time I found myself watching him take a shot and I'm like NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He made it....He made it!!!!!!!!!!

LOL, yeah, I know what you mean.  I'll jump off the couch and say the same thing.  My wife just shakes her head and sighs...

[501Ben]

To win today...you need a 6-11-7ft center. A 6-10 no less than 6-9 power forward. One of them has to be an offensive threat. At least one of them has to be a defensive threat. Both must be able to rebound the ball. You need at least a 6-8 to 6-9 small forward with range, handles, lock down defender, creates his own shot, a rebounder. Ideally your two guard should be 6'5 to 6-7 with the same attributes of the small forward but a deadly shooter. If you go smaller he better be a GREAT SHOOTER and you should have a larger point to make up for his height on the defensive end. A point that's PASS FIRST, can create off the dribble, get to the hole, knock down the three and create steals. You should be able to go three deep off the bench, with a player that can play both center and power forward, a player that can play both small forward or power forward or small forward and shooting guard, and a point guard that can play the two. You have to be able to mix it up offensively and defensively and most importantly, play smart and with heart.

Just to get things started.

I agree with everything you said, but the two guard doesn't have to be 6'5''-7''ish. I think a 6'2'' - 6'4'' shooting guard is fine in todays college game.

[Held Hawgstage]

I agree with everything you said, but the two guard doesn't have to be 6'5''-7''ish. I think a 6'2'' - 6'4'' shooting guard is fine in todays college game.

True...but I think in order to continue to bring in the talent you need to win titles you have to move your players on to the next level. Let's be honest, at the pro level a two guard is 6'6-6'8. You can get away with it, but I like programs that go after players that can move on to the next level. In the NBA everything is about size. Sure you'll get a Gordon or a Nate Robinson but they are very rare. 

[mbgrulz]

To win today...you need a 6-11-7ft center. A 6-10 no less than 6-9 power forward. One of them has to be an offensive threat. At least one of them has to be a defensive threat. Both must be able to rebound the ball. You need at least a 6-8 to 6-9 small forward with range, handles, lock down defender, creates his own shot, a rebounder. Ideally your two guard should be 6'5 to 6-7 with the same attributes of the small forward but a deadly shooter. If you go smaller he better be a GREAT SHOOTER and you should have a larger point to make up for his height on the defensive end. A point that's PASS FIRST, can create off the dribble, get to the hole, knock down the three and create steals. You should be able to go three deep off the bench, with a player that can play both center and power forward, a player that can play both small forward or power forward or small forward and shooting guard, and a point guard that can play the two. You have to be able to mix it up offensively and defensively and most importantly, play smart and with heart.

Just to get things started.

just to get started, huh?

you're crazy!

you just listed a dream team that i might make up on March Madness 2007 or something. no college team is going to have a roster that meets all of these needs.

what we know you need is at least one mcdonald's AA. only 1 team has won without one since '79 (Maryland '02.)

you need to have 3 good offensive weapons. you can usually count on one to come with it on a given night. having an inside/outside combo with a slasher in between is nice. of course defense is a given. you have to turn people over, and you have to get teams to go one-and-done as a rule instead of an exception. you also need to have that good ole god-given "timing". when it counts, you have to come through. florida had it like few others.

i am leaning more and more to the idea that speed really does kill. being quick in bball is better than being strong any day. look at mike conley and corey brewer. both rail thin, but as quick as cats.

[Pignominious]

To win today...you need a 6-11-7ft center. A 6-10 no less than 6-9 power forward. One of them has to be an offensive threat. At least one of them has to be a defensive threat. Both must be able to rebound the ball. You need at least a 6-8 to 6-9 small forward with range, handles, lock down defender, creates his own shot, a rebounder. Ideally your two guard should be 6'5 to 6-7 with the same attributes of the small forward but a deadly shooter. If you go smaller he better be a GREAT SHOOTER and you should have a larger point to make up for his height on the defensive end. A point that's PASS FIRST, can create off the dribble, get to the hole, knock down the three and create steals. You should be able to go three deep off the bench, with a player that can play both center and power forward, a player that can play both small forward or power forward or small forward and shooting guard, and a point guard that can play the two. You have to be able to mix it up offensively and defensively and most importantly, play smart and with heart.

Just to get things started.

just to get started, huh?

you're crazy!

you just listed a dream team that i might make up on March Madness 2007 or something. no college team is going to have a roster that meets all of these needs.

what we know you need is at least one mcdonald's AA. only 1 team has won without one since '79 (Maryland '02.)

you need to have 3 good offensive weapons. you can usually count on one to come with it on a given night. having an inside/outside combo with a slasher in between is nice. of course defense is a given. you have to turn people over, and you have to get teams to go one-and-done as a rule instead of an exception. you also need to have that good ole god-given "timing". when it counts, you have to come through. florida had it like few others.

i am leaning more and more to the idea that speed really does kill. being quick in bball is better than being strong any day. look at mike conley and corey brewer. both rail thin, but as quick as cats.

Basketball is above all else a finese game.  Granted take that with a grain of salt as they are very physical but compared to football, or rugbee, or heck even soccer, basketball is about agility more than brute strength.  You hit it on the head mbgrulz, its about speed. 

I think above all else you gotta be fast, talented, and tought as nails.  Everything else will fall into place.

[yraciv]

need a mcdonalds all american!  I've heard somewhere that all national championship teams recently have had at least 1.

[ColumbianHog]

need a mcdonalds all american!  I've heard somewhere that all national championship teams recently have had at least 1.

Did you hear it here?:

just to get started, huh?

you're crazy!

you just listed a dream team that i might make up on March Madness 2007 or something. no college team is going to have a roster that meets all of these needs.

what we know you need is at least one mcdonald's AA. only 1 team has won without one since '79 (Maryland '02.)

you need to have 3 good offensive weapons. you can usually count on one to come with it on a given night. having an inside/outside combo with a slasher in between is nice. of course defense is a given. you have to turn people over, and you have to get teams to go one-and-done as a rule instead of an exception. you also need to have that good ole god-given "timing". when it counts, you have to come through. florida had it like few others.

i am leaning more and more to the idea that speed really does kill. being quick in bball is better than being strong any day. look at mike conley and corey brewer. both rail thin, but as quick as cats.

[ColumbianHog]

To win today...you need a 6-11-7ft center. A 6-10 no less than 6-9 power forward. One of them has to be an offensive threat. At least one of them has to be a defensive threat. Both must be able to rebound the ball. You need at least a 6-8 to 6-9 small forward with range, handles, lock down defender, creates his own shot, a rebounder. Ideally your two guard should be 6'5 to 6-7 with the same attributes of the small forward but a deadly shooter. If you go smaller he better be a GREAT SHOOTER and you should have a larger point to make up for his height on the defensive end. A point that's PASS FIRST, can create off the dribble, get to the hole, knock down the three and create steals. You should be able to go three deep off the bench, with a player that can play both center and power forward, a player that can play both small forward or power forward or small forward and shooting guard, and a point guard that can play the two. You have to be able to mix it up offensively and defensively and most importantly, play smart and with heart.

Just to get things started.

just to get started, huh?

you're crazy!

you just listed a dream team that i might make up on March Madness 2007 or something. no college team is going to have a roster that meets all of these needs.

what we know you need is at least one mcdonald's AA. only 1 team has won without one since '79 (Maryland '02.)

you need to have 3 good offensive weapons. you can usually count on one to come with it on a given night. having an inside/outside combo with a slasher in between is nice. of course defense is a given. you have to turn people over, and you have to get teams to go one-and-done as a rule instead of an exception. you also need to have that good ole god-given "timing". when it counts, you have to come through. florida had it like few others.

i am leaning more and more to the idea that speed really does kill. being quick in bball is better than being strong any day. look at mike conley and corey brewer. both rail thin, but as quick as cats.

I'm inclined to agree.  While Held Hawgstage's lineup is ideal, I'm not sure it's realistic.  But it is a great blueprint to shoot for.

I think if you can get 2-3 of the players in his blueprint and then fill int he holes with solid role players, you'll have a contender.

That said, I think the Hogs have all of the pieces to be a contender next season.  I can't wait!

[zebra]

Defense+shooters+at least 1 rebounder+intense desire to win+unselfishness+coach with a backbone=winnners

[Held Hawgstage]

Let's look at the lineups on championship teams since 1994.
Bigs: Stewart, Zidek, Pope, Davison, Mohammed, Voskuhl, Hutson, Sanders, Wilcox, Forth, Okafor, May and Noah
F: Williamson,Obannon, Walker, Bramlett, Padgett, Freeman, Granger, Dunleavy, Baxter, Warrick, Boone, Williams, Horford
SF: Thurman, Obannon, McCarty, Dickerson, Edwards, Moore, Peterson, Battier, Mouton, Anthony, Anderson, Mccants, Brewer,
SG:McDaniel, Bailey, Delk, Miles, Sheppard, Hamilton, Bell, Duhon, Dixon, Duany, Gordon, Manuel, Humphries
PG: Beck, Edney, Epps, Bibby, Turner, El Amin, Cleaves, Williams, Blake, McNamara, Brown, Felton, Green

Two things jump out...a lot of the centers are playing or will play forward on the next level.
501Ben is right, you can will with a small 2 guard.

But....I'm looking at matchups. I don't think it's unrealistic to find the type of players I'm talking about. Florida came close. An evolution is absolutely clear. No fantasy here. The players are getting better, many play one position in college and then move to another in the pro's. You can have 1 or 2 pro types and the rest role players. I think in order to do better than what is established, you need to be mindful of the apparent evolution of the players.

[coach, my back hurts]

I just said in another post that you dont need size to win in college.  In the pros you do because the game itself is soooo terrible.  The game is a half court game.  You cant press or play zone in the pros.  That is what makes college different. 

Give me a PF and C or 2 PF's with a height around 6'8-6'9.  One preferalble a little meatier than the other.  Like a GlennDavis/Al Horford......(CharlesThomas).  I would like the other to be able to step out and shot the 3 and be very athletic.  Like the boy from Wisconsin or CoreyBrewer.......(MikeWashington).

My guards doesnt matter.  I would like to have 3 that will defend you ALL DAY LONG.  I dont care how big they are.  That is one of my concerns with Weems is that his emotions seem to lakadaisical(sp)  I'm just hopin he can become a more fierce defender in Pels system.  And of course on of the guards needs to be a great shooter(Bev/Welsh) and the other needs to be a slasher and a jumper(Weems/maybe Britt?).  The point guard just needs to be able to run the "show".  Dish the ball to the others and be a GREAT and TOUGH defender (Ervin). 

I think this team has what i takes.  Lets hope that Pel can get these boys to play hard and not ever have the mental brain farts that last yrs teams have.  I will cry if i here these boys say "they wanted it more than us" with Pel here.  That will honestly break my heart.  I think Pel will be tough with these boys though. 

[Held Hawgstage]

I will cry if i here these boys say "they wanted it more than us" with Pel here.  That will honestly break my heart.

LOL! I don't even want to think about that. There should be a warning not to use that phrase in the locker room, it should be on the top of the chalk board or white board and in their dorms.

[ColumbianHog]

I will cry if i here these boys say "they wanted it more than us" with Pel here.  That will honestly break my heart.

LOL! I don't even want to think about that. There should be a warning not to use that phrase in the locker room, it should be on the top of the chalk board or white board and in their dorms.

If you use that phrase then you do extra line drills.

[Beaverfever]

Let's look at the lineups on championship teams since 1994.
Bigs: Stewart, Zidek, Pope, Davison, Mohammed, Voskuhl, Hutson, Sanders, Wilcox, Forth, Okafor, May and Noah
F: Williamson,Obannon, Walker, Bramlett, Padgett, Freeman, Granger, Dunleavy, Baxter, Warrick, Boone, Williams, Horford
SF: Thurman, Obannon, McCarty, Dickerson, Edwards, Moore, Peterson, Battier, Mouton, Anthony, Anderson, Mccants, Brewer,
SG:McDaniel, Bailey, Delk, Miles, Sheppard, Hamilton, Bell, Duhon, Dixon, Duany, Gordon, Manuel, Humphries
PG: Beck, Edney, Epps, Bibby, Turner, El Amin, Cleaves, Williams, Blake, McNamara, Brown, Felton, Green

Two things jump out...a lot of the centers are playing or will play forward on the next level.
501Ben is right, you can will with a small 2 guard.

But....I'm looking at matchups. I don't think it's unrealistic to find the type of players I'm talking about. Florida came close. An evolution is absolutely clear. No fantasy here. The players are getting better, many play one position in college and then move to another in the pro's. You can have 1 or 2 pro types and the rest role players. I think in order to do better than what is established, you need to be mindful of the apparent evolution of the players.

I agree.  The Noah/Horford combo for Florida, not to mention Richard (nba type center) as a backup  was about as ideal as it gets.  The LSU combo of Tyrus Thomas/Big Baby was  also pretty nice.  What made Florida unbeatable was they had 3 ace three point shooters in Green/Brewer/and humphrey.  Not to mention Brewer was the best small forward in the game last season (other than Durant).  That Gators team is the blueprint.  I wouldn't be surprised if they were the best college team ever.  Fantastic shooting.  Athletic offensively and defensively able frontcourt.  Incredible small forward.  Excellent team chemistry.  The only knock could be that Green wasn't the best pg, but he was a very good one.