Hoop Hogs 8-2, #13 RPI, Toughest schedule in SEC, #21 SOS overall

[fourthcrusade]

This is not SPIN, this is honesty.

Yes, we lost to Ttech on Saturday.  And it was pretty bad.

After being up 3-0, Ttech scored 18 straight.  While the post-weems 3 drought was sickening, and that's what killed us, the first 9 minutes of the game, after that drought, we played them relatively even.  I don't know why we had so many turnovers at first, I don't know what gets in our head, I don't know how we shot 13% from 3-point land, but after being down 18-3 we played em even.  We lost by 15 eventually, after cutting it to 8 to 10 to 8 to 10 in the 2nd half.

The game itself was depressing - thomas did awesome, but every time we would get it to 8 tech would run a backdoor pass and be open under the bucket.  That stinks.

But, we are still 8-2.  We have the #13 RPI in the nation.  We have the #21 hardest schedule in the nation (THE HARDEST SCHEDULE IN THE SEC). 

Yes, we lost to TTech in the state of Arkansas.  And last year, we beat TTech in the state of Texas.  We have beaten tournament S. Illinois, West Virginia, and (maybe) Marist.  We lost badly to tournament Mizzou and lost ugly to TTech.

I still think the CHEMISTRY of this team gets better and better, and Ervin, regardless of his loose hands, is light years ahead of previous *ahem* point guards.

Comparisons are coming to 2004-2005, when we started ?12-1, winning the Paradise Jam, only losing to a tough Illinois team.  BUT the years are totally different.  We had no true points.  We had FRESHMEN big men.  We had no 3-point threat.  And we were 12-1, we thought we were awesome.

This year is different.  We gain confidence from Old Spice, but are jarred back to reality after getting whupped by Mizzou and a bad loss to TTech.  We are hungry.  We are good and we know it.  Hill actually has offense and knows it.  We are overlooked even by our own fans.

This year is different, because our guys are hungry and have something to prove. 

***Did you see Stan on saturday?  Did you see him screaming and jumping and giving it to the ref?  You don't think he realizes he has something to prove too? 

If you are a new hoops fan, here's a tip: WAIT UNTIL THE SEC TO JUMP OFF THE BANDWAGON.

Every educated hoops fan in here, in print, in the state media, even in press conferences agreed that starting SEC Play with 3 or less losses was the minimum goal (11-3), with projected losses in the Old Spice (1), &Texas (2) & either Mizzou OR TTech (3).

Fortunately, we won the old spice, but unfortunately, we lost to both Mizzou/Ttech.  Everyone expects this team to lose at Texas, and they very well may.  but unlike other years, outside of winning in Knoxville last spring, I would not be surprised AT ALL for them to go to Austin and win by 6 or more.

We're 8-2.  We are 2-2 (maybe 3-2) vs. tourney teams.  The only problem is, the 2 (maybe 3) wins we had were on TV while the rest of you goons were fast asleep after eating turkey, or while you were tailgating to see Houston's annual thanksgiving War Memorial waterloo, or when you were on here typing your defenses of 3-17 Dick.  The paper had zero pictures.  The stories were on 5C.  Oh wait-- there was a picture.  It was of Connecticut's Doug Wiggins.  Yet, the loss to Mizzou and Ttech are front page, picture-day-of-the-game and picture-day-after-the-game pages.  Football has a lull.  So we focus on the losses.


If we had lost to S. Illinois badly in the Old Spice, and lost the next consolation game, and THEN lost to Mizzou/Ttech, I would be hacked. 

But we didn't.  We showed we can win close games.  We showed we can come back and rally from deficits (what was it, 7 points down vs. S. Illinois with 3 minutes left???).  We showed we can hit free throws in crunch time.  That gives me hope for SEC.

Criticize stan if you will, and make ridiculous "I will give them one more year" statements (they are improving every year, what do you expect, annual national championships??), but I will let them get at least 8 games into the SEC before I panic.

We lost to Ttech on saturday.  But we are still 8-2 with the #21 hardest Schedule out there, #1 hardest so far in the SEC.  That IS a good thing.  Rpi DOES matter.  (#13 after two bad losses, BTW).

I would not be surprised to beat Texas on Tuesday.  I would not be surprised to lose by 5-10 points.  I WILL be surprised to lose at Texas by more than 10 points.  --And Remember, we beat TTech last year on a 'neutral' court.  Imagine the guards on last year's hoop team.  Yeah, those guys beat Ttech last year.

We WILL be dancing in march, bank on it.  This year is different.

(P.S. - when you shoot 13% from three point land, and the other guys quadruple that %, it could have been a LOT WORSE.)

[sooie dog]

yay

[hogfan064]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

[Arkapigdiesel]

What will be the end for Stan Heath are the empty seats in Bud Walton.  People just aren't interested in his brand of ball and what his teams look like on the court.  I hope he gets the excitement back, but I have my doubts whether he will.  Here's hoping he will......

[fourthcrusade]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

And Mizzou?  yeah, anderson had 100% of the motivation for that one, and we looked like kids that were worn out from orlando, cooped up from no practice due to snow, and looked like a team that could care less about "anderson-U of A rivalries".  we looked like - after 2 min left in the first half -  we looked like "let's go home".  That was bad, but under the circumstances, not totally unexpected.  Not an excuse, just "yeah.. that probably would have happened that same way 9 times out of 10"

[fourthcrusade]

What will be the end for Stan Heath are the empty seats in Bud Walton.  People just aren't interested in his brand of ball and what his teams look like on the court.  I hope he gets the excitement back, but I have my doubts whether he will.  Here's hoping he will......

Agreed the crowds are low, but I think SEC play will bring them back.  January will change things after football dies down.

[sooie dog]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

The game was over with 15 minutes left in the first half.  Everyone knows this.  We are lucky Bob called the dogs off.

[hogfan064]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

Give it a while?  I've given it 5 years and nothing has changed.  By year 5 you'd think we would've had at least 1 top 25 team.  We're going to likely lose to Texas by double digits and then we might lose to ORU.  At 8-4 we'll be in lots of trouble. By Feb. I think you'll hear lots of legit fire Heath rumors

[fourthcrusade]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

The game was over with 15 minutes left in the first half.  Everyone knows this.  We are lucky Bob called the dogs off.

So Bob 'called the dogs off' after 5 minutes of play?  Nice try.  We played them well AFTER sucking it up the first 5 min.  How did we cut it to 8?  How did thomas have a career night down low?

If we could just cut down on STUPID TURNOVERS, we have so many of the right pieces, and right FUNDAMENTALS: Ft, 3pts, Size, Speed, Rebounding, Blocks..    that's why i can be "HUGGER LIKE".  Because we ARE good if we would play smart.  3 years ago, regardless of playing smart or not, the Lane/Satchell guys just couldn't be good.

[hogfan064]

What will be the end for Stan Heath are the empty seats in Bud Walton.  People just aren't interested in his brand of ball and what his teams look like on the court.  I hope he gets the excitement back, but I have my doubts whether he will.  Here's hoping he will......

Agreed the crowds are low, but I think SEC play will bring them back.  January will change things after football dies down.

I don't see BWA being sold out to watch an Arkansas team with a losing conference record to play.  When Little Rock has problems selling tickets to watch Bob Knight and an old SWC rival then you know you got problems.

[Thearkfan]

Stan Heath is a wimp.  The players play like him.  Conservative.  Everyone knows why he was truly hire in the first place.  He was not the best coach available.  Hog fans deserve it.  Like it or not if Nolan were coaching with the same players these guys would be better.  Heck, last years team would have been better.  Nolan pushed his players to be best.  He stayed in there face.  He only had one highly recruited player on his national championship team.  Corliss.  But yet all of his teams won.  Yeah, his month got him into trouble.  But you don't hear many people complaining about him.  Heath will never have a great basketball team at Arkansas.  He has had time to build his type of team and they are still poor.  A change is needed.  It was needed last year.  

[hogfan064]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

The game was over with 15 minutes left in the first half.  Everyone knows this.  We are lucky Bob called the dogs off.

So Bob 'called the dogs off' after 5 minutes of play?  Nice try.  We played them well AFTER sucking it up the first 5 min.  How did we cut it to 8?  How did thomas have a career night down low?

If we could just cut down on STUPID TURNOVERS, we have so many of the right pieces, and right FUNDAMENTALS: Ft, 3pts, Size, Speed, Rebounding, Blocks..    that's why i can be "HUGGER LIKE".  Because we ARE good if we would play smart.  3 years ago, regardless of playing smart or not, the Lane/Satchell guys just couldn't be good.

We lost by 15 at home against a 9-3 Texas Tech team.  That loss was a bad one.  Even the biggest hugger will admit that.  Don't make excuses for them, admit what it was.

[pork-e-pine]

Stan has improved every year.  So I am holding out judgement until the end of the year. But he hasn't done anything spectacular so I think if he doesn't improve this year (win some NCAA tourny games) he should be fired.

Losing to a bob knight coached team isn't the end of the world but stan may have bitten off to much with this non conference schedule. Time will tell.

I honestly don't care about style of play as much as wins and losses. 

[ironhog227]

heath's last year is this year. enjoy it!  and anyone who tries to spin that woopin has had too much egg nog! hasn't tt lost 4 games?

[fourthcrusade]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

Give it a while?  I've given it 5 years and nothing has changed.  By year 5 you'd think we would've had at least 1 top 25 team.  We're going to likely lose to Texas by double digits and then we might lose to ORU.  At 8-4 we'll be in lots of trouble. By Feb. I think you'll hear lots of legit fire Heath rumors

Something has changed.  Read my signature.  Sure it's slow, but it starts the same way as nolan

Nolan year 1: losing season
Nolan year 2: NIT
Nolan year 3: NCAA round 1
Nolan year 4: NCAA round 2
Nolan year 5: Final Four

Stan year 1: *cupboard is bare year, transfers, decommit-like actions, etc*
Stan year 2: losing season
Stan year 3: NIT (eligible, frank says no)
Stan year 4: NCAA Round 1
Stan year 5: ??

Does that mean next year we go to a FF?  i'm not saying that.  The NCAAT you have to be lucky.  Nolan's '90 FF team wasn't great, but lucky.  As a four seed our path to Denver included BARELY beating #13 Princeton, BARELY beating #12 Dayton, #8 UNC, and #10 SWC rival Texas in the Elite Eight.

Nolan's path to the FF was #13-#12-#8-#10, then we lost badly to a good team (Duke).  Stop pretending the 90 team was all-world.  We probably wouldn't have beaten Oklahoma that year in the S16.  The "next" year's team (91) was awesome.

THE NCAAT involves lots of luck, not just 'good coaching'.  

Otherwise, do you give stan credit for already reaching the elite 8 with kent state?

[hogfan064]

Stan has improved every year.  So I am holding out judgement until the end of the year. But he hasn't done anything spectacular so I think if he doesn't improve this year (win some NCAA tourny games) he should be fired.

Losing to a bob knight coached team isn't the end of the world but stan may have bitten off to much with this non conference schedule. Time will tell.

I honestly don't care about style of play as much as wins and losses. 

If you have watched basketball long enough you know that this year's team hasn't improved over last year's team.  Stan's one positive is about to be erased.  If we win 22 games it will be due to a NIT run, not a SEC/NCAA run.  That won't satisfy Hog fans and Heath will be gone by mid March.

[pork-e-pine]

Stan has improved every year.  So I am holding out judgement until the end of the year. But he hasn't done anything spectacular so I think if he doesn't improve this year (win some NCAA tourny games) he should be fired.

Losing to a bob knight coached team isn't the end of the world but stan may have bitten off to much with this non conference schedule. Time will tell.

I honestly don't care about style of play as much as wins and losses. 

If you have watched basketball long enough you know that this year's team hasn't improved over last year's team.  Stan's one positive is about to be erased.  If we win 22 games it will be due to a NIT run, not a SEC/NCAA run.  That won't satisfy Hog fans and Heath will be gone by mid March.

I am afraid you are right.  But I am still holding off the judgment until it plays out.  You never know.  He could sudenly become a good game coach.

And I think he has two positives.  The improving every year and bringing in good recruits.

[hogfan064]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

Give it a while?  I've given it 5 years and nothing has changed.  By year 5 you'd think we would've had at least 1 top 25 team.  We're going to likely lose to Texas by double digits and then we might lose to ORU.  At 8-4 we'll be in lots of trouble. By Feb. I think you'll hear lots of legit fire Heath rumors

Something has changed.  Read my signature.  Sure it's slow, but it starts the same way as nolan

Nolan year 1: losing season
Nolan year 2: NIT
Nolan year 3: NCAA round 1
Nolan year 4: NCAA round 2
Nolan year 5: Final Four

Stan year 1: *cupboard is bare year, transfers, decommit-like actions, etc*
Stan year 2: losing season
Stan year 3: NIT (eligible, frank says no)
Stan year 4: NCAA Round 1
Stan year 5: ??

Does that mean next year we go to a FF?  i'm not saying that.  The NCAAT you have to be lucky.  Nolan's '90 FF team wasn't great, but lucky.  As a four seed our path to Denver included BARELY beating #13 Princeton, BARELY beating #12 Dayton, #8 UNC, and #10 SWC rival Texas in the Elite Eight.

Nolan's path to the FF was #13-#12-#8-#10, then we lost badly to a good team (Duke).  Stop pretending the 90 team was all-world.  We probably wouldn't have beaten Oklahoma that year in the S16.  The "next" year's team (91) was awesome.

THE NCAAT involves lots of luck, not just 'good coaching'.  

Otherwise, do you give stan credit for already reaching the elite 8 with kent state?

Yeah the NCAA tourney does involve some luck, but Heath won't be in the tourney this year to get some luck.  What Nolan did wasn't luck though.  You don't win as many tourney games as he did without being a good coach.

And I could care less what Stan did in 1 season at Kent State.  Clemson was a top 5 program for much of the 80s, does that make you feel better about Danny Ford?

[hogfan064]

Stan has improved every year.  So I am holding out judgement until the end of the year. But he hasn't done anything spectacular so I think if he doesn't improve this year (win some NCAA tourny games) he should be fired.

Losing to a bob knight coached team isn't the end of the world but stan may have bitten off to much with this non conference schedule. Time will tell.

I honestly don't care about style of play as much as wins and losses. 

If you have watched basketball long enough you know that this year's team hasn't improved over last year's team.  Stan's one positive is about to be erased.  If we win 22 games it will be due to a NIT run, not a SEC/NCAA run.  That won't satisfy Hog fans and Heath will be gone by mid March.

I am afraid you are right.  But I am still holding off the judgment until it plays out.  You never know.  He could sudenly become a good game coach.

And I think he has two positives.  The improving every year and bringing in good recruits.

At a school with our facilities, tradition, and fan base even an average recruiter will bring in good recruits. 

[Conway Cool Daddy]

If we were just losing close games that would be different.  We didn't even belong on the floor with TT or Mizzou.  Neither of these teams are great.  Both were good teams, but not teams we should lose to like we did.  Fourthcrusade, I'm not sure if you're Heath's agent, cousin, or son, but every week you come on and defend the guy.  None of us are new basketball fans like you assume.  We all know the game and we know what we're seeing isn't what Arkansas basketball should be about.   Our basketball program is to tradition rich to be a bubble team every year.  RPI means nothing this early in the year. 

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

The game was over with 15 minutes left in the first half.  Everyone knows this.  We are lucky Bob called the dogs off.

So Bob 'called the dogs off' after 5 minutes of play?  Nice try.  We played them well AFTER sucking it up the first 5 min.  How did we cut it to 8?  How did thomas have a career night down low?

If we could just cut down on STUPID TURNOVERS, we have so many of the right pieces, and right FUNDAMENTALS: Ft, 3pts, Size, Speed, Rebounding, Blocks..    that's why i can be "HUGGER LIKE".  Because we ARE good if we would play smart.  3 years ago, regardless of playing smart or not, the Lane/Satchell guys just couldn't be good.

Could this be due to the fact that J Jackson was on the bench most of the second half?
Their best player was hurt and out of the game. You have to take that into effect as well.
We just plain stunk it up no matter how you slice it.

[pork-e-pine]

Stan has improved every year.  So I am holding out judgement until the end of the year. But he hasn't done anything spectacular so I think if he doesn't improve this year (win some NCAA tourny games) he should be fired.

Losing to a bob knight coached team isn't the end of the world but stan may have bitten off to much with this non conference schedule. Time will tell.

I honestly don't care about style of play as much as wins and losses. 

If you have watched basketball long enough you know that this year's team hasn't improved over last year's team.  Stan's one positive is about to be erased.  If we win 22 games it will be due to a NIT run, not a SEC/NCAA run.  That won't satisfy Hog fans and Heath will be gone by mid March.

I am afraid you are right.  But I am still holding off the judgment until it plays out.  You never know.  He could sudenly become a good game coach.

And I think he has two positives.  The improving every year and bringing in good recruits.

At a school with our facilities, tradition, and fan base even an average recruiter will bring in good recruits. 

Maybe. But right now heath is doing it.  And if you remember the past few years we have been well below average on the performance scale.  So I believe in giving credit where it is due.

[HawgG]

How refreshing it is to read a post by somebody that knows what they are talking about.Thank you fourthcrusade being one of about 7 posters that understand the game of basketball is a marathon and not a sprint.Only in FB one can say that a couple of early season loses has squashed the team's goals and in some cases that team's season is all but over.There is plenty of season left to be played in basketball and coming into it the thought all along was that this team would be better later in the season than at the start of it.

[ironhog227]

before i say this let me 1st say i am not a nutt fan, but anyone who says that you can't fire heath because you haven't fired nutt fail to realize 1 thing. when nutt took over this program, it had no good will, none. our football program had been in War Memorial Stadium for 7 years.  when heath took over, yes we had no bb players on campus, but we still had a good name.  when people thought of arkansas, they still respected us as a good bb school.  it is in my opinion that is lost 5 years later, and that is why it is time for stan to go.  he has not helped the program.  

[DeltaBoy]

CAN STAN NOW!  We should have hired Mike!

[hogfan064]

Stan has improved every year.  So I am holding out judgement until the end of the year. But he hasn't done anything spectacular so I think if he doesn't improve this year (win some NCAA tourny games) he should be fired.

Losing to a bob knight coached team isn't the end of the world but stan may have bitten off to much with this non conference schedule. Time will tell.

I honestly don't care about style of play as much as wins and losses. 

If you have watched basketball long enough you know that this year's team hasn't improved over last year's team.  Stan's one positive is about to be erased.  If we win 22 games it will be due to a NIT run, not a SEC/NCAA run.  That won't satisfy Hog fans and Heath will be gone by mid March.

I am afraid you are right.  But I am still holding off the judgment until it plays out.  You never know.  He could sudenly become a good game coach.

And I think he has two positives.  The improving every year and bringing in good recruits.

At a school with our facilities, tradition, and fan base even an average recruiter will bring in good recruits. 

Maybe. But right now heath is doing it.  And if you remember the past few years we have been well below average on the performance scale.  So I believe in giving credit where it is due.

Even still recruiting rankings mean nothing if you aren't winning.  Yeah he can recruit well, but that recruiting hasn't produced and those big name recruits aren't getting better.  Townes seems to have gotten worse.  Hill's a great shotblocker, but can't rebound and has problems scoring.  There's some good youth on the team, but I don't think Heath will be around long enough to coach them.

[fourthcrusade]

before i say this let me 1st say i am not a nutt fan, but anyone who says that you can't fire heath because you haven't fired nutt fail to realize 1 thing. when nutt took over this program, it had no good will, none. our football program had been in War Memorial Stadium for 7 years.  when heath took over, yes we had no bb players on campus, but we still had a good name.  when people thought of arkansas, they still respected us as a good bb school.  it is in my opinion that is lost 5 years later, and that is why it is time for stan to go.  he has not helped the program.  

nope.  people already thought of arkansas as a 'has been' for the last HALF of nolan, just like a cincinnatti or a st. john's or a houston -- used to be pretty good, then just kinda average.

97-NIT, no NCAA
98-NCAA 2nd rd
99-NCAA 2nd rd
00-losing season--ok ok, barely avoid losing season & get NCAA 1st rd due to joe johnson's 4 games in 4 days in SECT
01-NCAA 1st rd
02-losing season

[IMAballHawg]

Frankly this team is meeting my expectations for this year.   We lost something like 60% of last years scoring to graduation and the NBA.  Im not sure what some of your expectations are after a major milestone like that but mine was that we do as well as last year, but not better.
I believe this new team (half the players starting were not even Hogs last year) will Gel more as the season goes on and key players (Ervin) will mature under Heaths coaching. 

So I think this team is meeting expectations.  We are winning about half of the major games with essentially a new team and partially new coaching staff. 
I am certainly not ready to jump ship yet.

[hogfan064]

before i say this let me 1st say i am not a nutt fan, but anyone who says that you can't fire heath because you haven't fired nutt fail to realize 1 thing. when nutt took over this program, it had no good will, none. our football program had been in War Memorial Stadium for 7 years.  when heath took over, yes we had no bb players on campus, but we still had a good name.  when people thought of arkansas, they still respected us as a good bb school.  it is in my opinion that is lost 5 years later, and that is why it is time for stan to go.  he has not helped the program.  

Heath/Nutt comparisons aren't fair really.  Nutt has to compete with 8 other SEC schools with tons of tradition and 8 schools who all have NCs.  Now he also has had to compete with another school with very little tradition with 2 legend coaches(USC)  Heath is competing in a league with only 1 tradition rich program in it besides Arkansas.  Florida is becoming a power and Bama has a decent history, but its nothing like SEC football.  Nutt has at least won postseason games and a division title.  Nutt has finished in the top 25.  Nutt entered Arkansas having some very below average facilities, Heath has some of the best in the nation. 

Oh and Nutt at least knew what a Hogcall was at his press conference to accept the job .

[fourthcrusade]

Oh and Nutt at least knew what a Hogcall was at his press conference to accept the job .

Of course he did.  He was a 4-year Quarterback at ARKANSAS for college, right, where he patiently paid his dues and sat it out until becoming the starter as a senior for the Hogs, right?  How could nutt not know our traditions, right?  He loved the UA so much he waited his turn!

[hogfan064]

before i say this let me 1st say i am not a nutt fan, but anyone who says that you can't fire heath because you haven't fired nutt fail to realize 1 thing. when nutt took over this program, it had no good will, none. our football program had been in War Memorial Stadium for 7 years.  when heath took over, yes we had no bb players on campus, but we still had a good name.  when people thought of arkansas, they still respected us as a good bb school.  it is in my opinion that is lost 5 years later, and that is why it is time for stan to go.  he has not helped the program.  

nope.  people already thought of arkansas as a 'has been' for the last HALF of nolan, just like a cincinnatti or a st. john's or a houston -- used to be pretty good, then just kinda average.

97-NIT, no NCAA
98-NCAA 2nd rd
99-NCAA 2nd rd
00-losing season--ok ok, barely avoid losing season & get NCAA 1st rd due to joe johnson's 4 games in 4 days in SECT
01-NCAA 1st rd
02-losing season

Take any 5 year period in that stretch and its still better than Heath

[pork-e-pine]

Stan has improved every year.  So I am holding out judgement until the end of the year. But he hasn't done anything spectacular so I think if he doesn't improve this year (win some NCAA tourny games) he should be fired.

Losing to a bob knight coached team isn't the end of the world but stan may have bitten off to much with this non conference schedule. Time will tell.

I honestly don't care about style of play as much as wins and losses. 

If you have watched basketball long enough you know that this year's team hasn't improved over last year's team.  Stan's one positive is about to be erased.  If we win 22 games it will be due to a NIT run, not a SEC/NCAA run.  That won't satisfy Hog fans and Heath will be gone by mid March.

I am afraid you are right.  But I am still holding off the judgment until it plays out.  You never know.  He could sudenly become a good game coach.

And I think he has two positives.  The improving every year and bringing in good recruits.

At a school with our facilities, tradition, and fan base even an average recruiter will bring in good recruits. 

Maybe. But right now heath is doing it.  And if you remember the past few years we have been well below average on the performance scale.  So I believe in giving credit where it is due.

Even still recruiting rankings mean nothing if you aren't winning.  Yeah he can recruit well, but that recruiting hasn't produced and those big name recruits aren't getting better.  Townes seems to have gotten worse.  Hill's a great shotblocker, but can't rebound and has problems scoring.  There's some good youth on the team, but I don't think Heath will be around long enough to coach them.

I am mostly in agreement with you there. His year to year improvment, I think, is tied to the improving talent on this team. But I think he has maxed out how far talent alone can take him.  For some reason he has not tapped the potential of talent. So barring a NCAA run, I think he should be gone (or better yet kept on as the assistant in charge of recruiting).

[iCalledThatHogBrotha!]

Haha, i've never met heath.

"we don't belong on the floor with Ttech"

So how did we play them even after getting down 18-3 in the first half?  Wouldn't a "much much better" Ttech team have INCREASED the lead, instead of letting us chip away until we fouled too much in the last seconds?  Sure, the loss sucked, I'm just saying we are b@#$%ing about being 8-2 and being 2-2 / 3?-2 against NCAA teams so far.  SEC HASN'T EVEN STARTED.  At least give a while.

And Mizzou?  yeah, anderson had 100% of the motivation for that one, and we looked like kids that were worn out from orlando, cooped up from no practice due to snow, and looked like a team that could care less about "anderson-U of A rivalries".  we looked like - after 2 min left in the first half -  we looked like "let's go home".  That was bad, but under the circumstances, not totally unexpected.  Not an excuse, just "yeah.. that probably would have happened that same way 9 times out of 10"

You got one thing right.  SEC hasn't started, and most of those teams are a heckuva lot better than Tech & Mizzou.  Face it, we got owned by two mediocre teams, with a MUCH tougher schedule ahead.  It is so pitiful, one can only laugh in disbelief.

[fourthcrusade]

before i say this let me 1st say i am not a nutt fan, but anyone who says that you can't fire heath because you haven't fired nutt fail to realize 1 thing. when nutt took over this program, it had no good will, none. our football program had been in War Memorial Stadium for 7 years.  when heath took over, yes we had no bb players on campus, but we still had a good name.  when people thought of arkansas, they still respected us as a good bb school.  it is in my opinion that is lost 5 years later, and that is why it is time for stan to go.  he has not helped the program.  

nope.  people already thought of arkansas as a 'has been' for the last HALF of nolan, just like a cincinnatti or a st. john's or a houston -- used to be pretty good, then just kinda average.

97-NIT, no NCAA
98-NCAA 2nd rd
99-NCAA 2nd rd
00-losing season--ok ok, barely avoid losing season & get NCAA 1st rd due to joe johnson's 4 games in 4 days in SECT
01-NCAA 1st rd
02-losing season

Take any 5 year period in that stretch and its still better than Heath

To be fair, Heath has only finished 4 so far.  You all act as if the NIT would reject us this year at 8-2, #13 rpi, #21 sos.

[hogfan064]

Oh and Nutt at least knew what a Hogcall was at his press conference to accept the job .

Of course he did.  He was a 4-year Quarterback at ARKANSAS for college, right, where he patiently paid his dues and sat it out until becoming the starter as a senior for the Hogs, right?  How could nutt not know our traditions, right?  He loved the UA so much he waited his turn!

My point is that you don't take a college job without knowing its biggest tradition.  Do you think a coach would take Ohio State's job without knowing what Script Ohio is?  Stan looked lost then and still does today.  He's a nice guy, but its not going to work out. 

[ironhog227]

look

before i say this let me 1st say i am not a nutt fan, but anyone who says that you can't fire heath because you haven't fired nutt fail to realize 1 thing. when nutt took over this program, it had no good will, none. our football program had been in War Memorial Stadium for 7 years.  when heath took over, yes we had no bb players on campus, but we still had a good name.  when people thought of arkansas, they still respected us as a good bb school.  it is in my opinion that is lost 5 years later, and that is why it is time for stan to go.  he has not helped the program.  

nope.  people already thought of arkansas as a 'has been' for the last HALF of nolan, just like a cincinnatti or a st. john's or a houston -- used to be pretty good, then just kinda average.

97-NIT, no NCAA
98-NCAA 2nd rd
99-NCAA 2nd rd
00-losing season--ok ok, barely avoid losing season & get NCAA 1st rd due to joe johnson's 4 games in 4 days in SECT
01-NCAA 1st rd
02-losing season

in 2003, cbs sportsline did a poll that ranked the top 10 bb programs in america voted by the fans.  arkansas came in at 9th.  in 2000, my brother went to an adidas camp, and as they went around the room they asked kids where they wanted to play, he said arkansas was as popular as duke, kent, or any other big time school.  kids and fans still looked at us a top tier, even though we hadn't been for 5 years. that was tradition, and i am afraid it is gone.  

[hogfan064]

before i say this let me 1st say i am not a nutt fan, but anyone who says that you can't fire heath because you haven't fired nutt fail to realize 1 thing. when nutt took over this program, it had no good will, none. our football program had been in War Memorial Stadium for 7 years.  when heath took over, yes we had no bb players on campus, but we still had a good name.  when people thought of arkansas, they still respected us as a good bb school.  it is in my opinion that is lost 5 years later, and that is why it is time for stan to go.  he has not helped the program.  

nope.  people already thought of arkansas as a 'has been' for the last HALF of nolan, just like a cincinnatti or a st. john's or a houston -- used to be pretty good, then just kinda average.

97-NIT, no NCAA
98-NCAA 2nd rd
99-NCAA 2nd rd
00-losing season--ok ok, barely avoid losing season & get NCAA 1st rd due to joe johnson's 4 games in 4 days in SECT
01-NCAA 1st rd
02-losing season

Take any 5 year period in that stretch and its still better than Heath

To be fair, Heath has only finished 4 so far.  You all act as if the NIT would reject us this year at 8-2, #13 rpi, #21 sos.

Our RPI won't be that high at the end of the year and our record will be below .500 in the SEC.  There are about 6 other SEC teams better than TT and Mizzou and we couldn't even compete with those 2.   

[hogfan064]

look

before i say this let me 1st say i am not a nutt fan, but anyone who says that you can't fire heath because you haven't fired nutt fail to realize 1 thing. when nutt took over this program, it had no good will, none. our football program had been in War Memorial Stadium for 7 years.  when heath took over, yes we had no bb players on campus, but we still had a good name.  when people thought of arkansas, they still respected us as a good bb school.  it is in my opinion that is lost 5 years later, and that is why it is time for stan to go.  he has not helped the program.  

nope.  people already thought of arkansas as a 'has been' for the last HALF of nolan, just like a cincinnatti or a st. john's or a houston -- used to be pretty good, then just kinda average.

97-NIT, no NCAA
98-NCAA 2nd rd
99-NCAA 2nd rd
00-losing season--ok ok, barely avoid losing season & get NCAA 1st rd due to joe johnson's 4 games in 4 days in SECT
01-NCAA 1st rd
02-losing season

in 2003, cbs sportsline did a poll that ranked the top 10 bb programs in america voted by the fans.  arkansas came in at 9th.  in 2000, my brother went to an adidas camp, and as they went around the room they asked kids where they wanted to play, he said arkansas was as popular as duke, kent, or any other big time school.  kids and fans still looked at us a top tier, even though we hadn't been for 5 years. that was tradition, and i am afraid it is gone.  

Street & Smith's ranked us as the 8th best program alltime.

[Bomis Hawg]

Arkansas should finish between 30-45 in the final RPI.  That's with a .500 record in the SEC.  Pull an upset, they'll be higher.

[fourthcrusade]

Arkansas should finish between 30-45 in the final RPI.  That's with a .500 record in the SEC.  Pull an upset, they'll be higher.

And i still say we lose no more sec games than last year, no worse than 10-6.  As projected 3rd in west in the sec, that's about right for losses.  "supposed" to lose @ bama, @ lsu, @ florida, *maybe* home kentucky, home bama, and home lsu.  that's it.  i say we win 2 of the 3 big home ones (kentucky and lsu), lose the 3 road ones, and lose 1 more 'sec type upset', maybe @ vandy.  that gives us 11-5.  i'm sticking to it.

8-8 in the sec?  seriously?  who else do we lose to?  a short tennessee team at HOME that scores about 55 points a game?  lose to 'no one's over 6'4" auburn?  where do these 8 losses come from???

[hogfan064]

Arkansas should finish between 30-45 in the final RPI.  That's with a .500 record in the SEC.  Pull an upset, they'll be higher.

Lose to a team like Ole Miss and it will be lower.  I don't think we make it to .500 with this team.  I say 6-10 with 16-18 overall wins.

[iCalledThatHogBrotha!]

I'm just not buying it crusade.  A couple of years ago we were 12-1 heading into the SEC.  I was sold and finally thought SH had turned the program around.  We had a super high RPI and our SOS wasn't too bad either.

We went on to win SIX sec games for a magnificent record of 18-12.  Moreover, I think it is a safe bet that we are even worse than that this year.

[fourthcrusade]

I'm just not buying it crusade.  A couple of years ago we were 12-1 heading into the SEC.  I was sold and finally thought SH had turned the program around.  We had a super high RPI and our SOS wasn't too bad either.

We went on to win SIX sec games for a magnificent record of 18-12.  Moreover, I think it is a safe bet that we are even worse than that this year.

did you read my "comparing it to 2004" line in the original post?  read it again.

[hogfan064]

Arkansas should finish between 30-45 in the final RPI.  That's with a .500 record in the SEC.  Pull an upset, they'll be higher.

And i still say we lose no more sec games than last year, no worse than 10-6.  As projected 3rd in west in the sec, that's about right for losses.  "supposed" to lose @ bama, @ lsu, @ florida, *maybe* home kentucky, home bama, and home lsu.  that's it.  i say we win 2 of the 3 big home ones (kentucky and lsu), lose the 3 road ones, and lose 1 more 'sec type upset', maybe @ vandy.  that gives us 11-5.  i'm sticking to it.

8-8 in the sec?  seriously?  who else do we lose to?  a short tennessee team at HOME that scores about 55 points a game?  lose to 'no one's over 6'4" auburn?  where do these 8 losses come from???

Other losses

@ MSU-Heath lost to them last year
@ South Carolina-USC gets key player back this week that has been out all year(Chad Gray)
@ Ole Miss-Heath lost to them last year


Heath always slips up on the road.  I don't see us beating UK or Tennessee either.

[fourthcrusade]

Other losses

@ MSU-Heath lost to them last year
@ South Carolina-USC gets key player back this week that has been out all year(Chad Gray)
@ Ole Miss-Heath lost to them last year

If you really think we lose AT MSU (or AT Ole miss even), you are crazy.  HOW could we lose at Ole Miss?  last year we missed all our fts, and we had the cloud of 'we can't win close games, we try so hard just to lose', like at lsu coming back from 17 down just to lose it after missing fts.   HOW could that happen again?  this team is different, with different players.  HOW?

[iCalledThatHogBrotha!]

Heath has proven time and time again his uncanny ability to clinch defeat from the hands of victory.  I can't count the number of times we had a game wrapped up in the waning minutes, only to let some team come back and take it away from us. 

On top of this, we lost the #13 draft pick, and a top-ten all-time scorer.

I'm sticking to: 6-10 SEC.

[Inigo Montoya]

yada yada
I've seen enough already this year to know what is coming.  Flashes of talent will be seen throughout the season but there will be no consistency our team chemistry.  We all saw how much our players drug arse once we got down in those 2 blow out losses.  It will happen again.   Probably multiple times throughout the year.  The ship may not sink all together but it will definitely take on water all season and by the end be to weighted down to make into the tournament.  At this point I don't even care if Stan stays or goes. 

[Bomis Hawg]

Arkansas will have somewhere between 7 to maybe 10 or 11 SEC wins.  Depends how hot they get late.

Arkansas has probably the two toughest East teams at home (Georgia and Tennessee), though it seems this early.  Too early to tell on Kentucky.

Florida on the road will get fugly, especially in mid-week.

Auburn is a mid-week road game, but it is in the middle of two very tough road games for them (UGA and Alabama).  Arkansas should beat Ole Miss prior to that, which should help them win that one.  Back-to-back road games with LSU and MSU will be tough, wouldn't expect Arkansas to hang with MSU on the road mid-week in that one.  Arkansas has Georgia (mid-week) and LSU.  They could win both, a split would be good.  Confidence going into the mid-week roadie to South Carolina.  Arkansas has struggled there, but could win if they are focused.

If Arkansas can split their four mid-week road games, that should do well for them.  Ole Miss has struggled at home a bit this year.  Vandy has just been bad outside of their win against Georgia Tech.  Auburn has been hit or miss, but played a Okie State team to 1 on a neutral court.  Alabama is very talented, but hasn't lived up to their expectations yet.  Expect them to, though.  I think LSU could be a 50-50 game.

I think Arkansas could do well on the road.  A split of the Tues/Wed games is critical.  I think they'll beat Ole Miss and Auburn on the road.  Teams like Vanderbilt and South Carolina are the key games, and finding an upset victim.

I think 10-6 is a reality.  But, 8-8 is about as close to what you will probably get, though.

[HawgG]

Arkansas wouldn't have made the NCAAT last season if they didn't not know how win close games.Remember Bama,Florida,and Tennessee.By the way how many points were they down on the road in Knoxville and manage to come back.Take a look at the Old Spice Tournament that they won this season,and as I recalled this team played and one close games against So. ILL and Marist.As I said before basketball is a Marathon and not a sprint.If I had to guess I say this team will lose one more non-conference probably at Texas and they will go 9-7 in the SEC which will be good enough to get them into the NCAAT again.

[HeathWimp]

.

[HeathWimp]

Like many members of this forum, I, too, was content to give Heath a chance.

However, we are now in Year 5 of the Heath era, and I do not see any clear direction to the program.  Granted, there is the incremental progress from year to year, but considering how badly he started, there was only room to improve.  I don't see us landing the kind of elite players that we need to be competitive on a national scale.

My biggest beef with Heath has always been his lack of intensity.  Heath is a wus, and his players play seem to emulate him, as they play with very little passion.  He may have stomped up and down a little during the Texas Tech game, but over the past 5 years, he has typically shown less passion than a corpse.  Once we get blown out by Texas (and I think that it will be more than 20 points), and continue to struggle in conference play, the call for Heath's head will reach a fever pitch.

So the question for the form is this:  How many games does Heath need to win to keep his job?