Something to consider about recruiting

[jkelly107]

Think about this. Oklahoma is not a recruiting hot bed. Living on the west side of the state I see Arkansas high school teams consistently beat Oklahoma teams. Oklahoma has to recruit against OK State and yes some kids have chosen OK state over Oklahoma. Looking at Oklahoma's roster they had like 23 in state kids and one from Arkansas. I realize that kids want to play for a successful team and that's the only advantage I see they have over Arkansas. We need a coach that can cherry pick Arkansas and recruit TX and LA.   

[LRHawg]

CBB failed to effectively recruit TX. The next coach better learn from this mistake.

[jkelly107]

CBB failed to effectively recruit TX. The next coach better learn from this mistake.

I agree.
If Oklahoma can do it there is no reason we can't bring in the players to Arkansas

[greenie]

CBB failed to effectively recruit TX. The next coach better learn from this mistake.

How did he fail to effectively recruit TX?

[jkelly107]

How did he fail to effectively recruit TX?

Arkansas has 15 players from TX
Oklahoma has 40

[1highhog]

CBB failed to effectively recruit TX. The next coach better learn from this mistake.

One reason being the fact he never went after assistants that had heavy ties in Texas, always going after assistants from the North it seemed.  We have two coaches currently that are good recruiters that recruit States other than Arkansas, but none worth a darn in Texas.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Think about this. Oklahoma is not a recruiting hot bed. Living on the west side of the state I see Arkansas high school teams consistently beat Oklahoma teams. Oklahoma has to recruit against OK State and yes some kids have chosen OK state over Oklahoma. Looking at Oklahoma's roster they had like 23 in state kids and one from Arkansas. I realize that kids want to play for a successful team and that's the only advantage I see they have over Arkansas. We need a coach that can cherry pick Arkansas and recruit TX and LA.   

OU is just about as entrenched in TX recruiting as Texas and A&M are.  That and its elite FB history gives them a huge advantage over us.

We seemingly have almost no ties to TX recruiting anymore.  Forget for a moment about TX, A&M and OU all almost living exclusively off TX talent.  Now the recent resurgence of TCU, Baylor, Houston, and OSU, it's getting significantly more difficult to make any measureable difference there.  TT doesn't do to bad either. 

We can get players out of TX, no doubt, but it's likely going to be primarily whatever is left after the big boys fill their plates.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I agree.
If Oklahoma can do it there is no reason we can't bring in the players to Arkansas

Why?

[IronHog]

I agree.
If Oklahoma can do it there is no reason we can't bring in the players to Arkansas

What team recruiting Texas would ever finish better than 3-4th in the West?

[greenie]

Arkansas has 15 players from TX
Oklahoma has 40

So it's the 40 players from TX that makes OU better than us?

How many do they have from Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Georgia?

Alabama only has 12 from Texas.  They're able to find good players in other states, why can't we?
Texas is not our answer to recruiting.  Better recruiters getting better recruits is the answer.  However, CBB recruited as well as anyone has at Arkansas for the last 30 years.  Recruiting wasn't what lead to his downfall...it was coaching.

[elviscat]

BB, insulted the high school coaches of Texas, when he had the conflict with the Texas Tech coach and he made an ass of himself. He didn't build the bridge with those coaches and didn't try to establish a relationship with them. It is imperative that the next coach really gets involved with those coaches or else we die.

[factchecker]

How many players from Texas does Baylor have?

Kansas has 38 players from Texas.  Are they good?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

So it's the 40 players from TX that makes OU better than us?

How many do they have from Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Georgia?

Alabama only has 12 from Texas.  They're able to find good players in other states, why can't we?
Texas is not our answer to recruiting.  Better recruiters getting better recruits is the answer.  However, CBB recruited as well as anyone has at Arkansas for the last 30 years.  Recruiting wasn't what lead to his downfall...it was coaching.

It was coaching and recruiting.  He's never had enough talent to make a real difference, and he's not a good enough as a coach to at least moderately bridge the gap.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

We need better players...from TX or elsewhere.  It's just that conventional wisdom, for whatever reason, claims it would be easier for us to sign TX talent.  Might be true, might not.

We just have a crappy history, and we're just in a terrible location geographically. 

[greenie]

BB, insulted the high school coaches of Texas, when he had the conflict with the Texas Tech coach and he made an ass of himself. He didn't build the bridge with those coaches and didn't try to establish a relationship with them. It is imperative that the next coach really gets involved with those coaches or else we die.

I disagree.  CBB landed several good players out of TX during his time.  He also landed more good players out of LA, MS, GA, and FL than we have in a long time.  Also, TX recruiting has become MUCH more competitive in the last 5-7 years.  We don't just compete with TX, aTm, and OU for Texas recruits...we also now have to fight against TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, and Houston...and this doesn't take into account the fact that the footprint of the big programs (Bama, OSU, Clemson, GA, FSU, etc.) has become massive.  They don't just primarily recruit regionally anymore.  You have to go *everywhere* to find players.  Putting too much focus on one state would not be smart.

[rtr]

So it's the 40 players from TX that makes OU better than us?

How many do they have from Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Georgia?

Alabama only has 12 from Texas.  They're able to find good players in other states, why can't we?
Texas is not our answer to recruiting.  Better recruiters getting better recruits is the answer.  However, CBB recruited as well as anyone has at Arkansas for the last 30 years.  Recruiting wasn't what lead to his downfall...it was coaching.

Here is the rub with what you say, we know that all 25th ranked classes are not equal.  It is about evaluation and needs, it does not appear this staff did a good job of this.  I might want a 3 star that is still maturing and improving over 4 or even 5 star.  Also, I think we could squeeze a few more recruits out of Lil Ole Arkansas.  If what you say is correct, it raises more questions about our strength and conditioning program.

[Darren DeLoach]

Well, maybe a hundred years of high level consistent winning, and a being firmly entrenched into Texas'rich recruiting  might have something to do with it.

But, we do need to have way more success in our Texas recruiting. Hope we discover a link in the new staff to help kick start a pipeline.

[greenie]

It was coaching and recruiting.  He's never had enough talent to make a real difference, and he's not a good enough as a coach to at least moderately bridge the gap.

So you think our recruiting was worse under CBB than Petrino or Nutt?  The rankings sure don't say that under Petrino, and it's very hard to tell with Nutt because he would sign 40+ players every year (this was before the 25 limit).  I can't argue with the coaching part of it, but I don't see that CBB was a sub-standard recruiter.  Do we need better players?  Sure we do, but no one yet has been able to pull off a string of difference-making classes at Arkansas.  I hope that changes.  Maybe Gus can do that...or Hugh Freeze 

[IronHog]

So you think our recruiting was worse under CBB than Petrino or Nutt?  The rankings sure don't say that under Petrino, and it's very hard to tell with Nutt because he would sign 40+ players every year (this was before the 25 limit).  I can't argue with the coaching part of it, but I don't see that CBB was a sub-standard recruiter.  Do we need better players?  Sure we do, but no one yet has been able to pull off a string of difference-making classes at Arkansas.  I hope that changes.  Maybe Gus can do that...or Hugh Freeze 

Recruiting rankings are what they are


Is there much difference in 10 and 25?


Retention, fit, and development matter too

[Pig in the Pokey]

How did he fail to effectively recruit TX?

when 40% of your school is from Texass but only 18% of your football team is, That's a damn problem.

[factchecker]

when 40% of your school is from Texass but only 18% of your football team is, That's a damn problem.

Our current enrollment is 27,558.
Of that total - only 5,868 students are from Texas.

That equals around 21% of the student population.

https://oir.uark.edu/students/enrollment-state.php

For those who want to know:

14,323 of our students are from Arkansas (52%).

[rtr]

25 limit was in place under Nutt.  Yes, they seem to have had more talent.  This may rankle some but CBP was addressing defensive needs:  Philon, Mitchell, Trey Flowers, Wise, even before them we had DD Jones and Byran Jones.  Nutt and Petrino had a ton of playmakers while they were here.  Maybe the coaching now is that subpar, I think it is not good.  Until the current crop performs at a higher level, that is my opinion.  I hope a new strength and conditioning can improve team speed.  You maybe right.  I am ready for the Gus Bus, Norvell or anyone else who can alter the current projectory. 

[greenie]

Here is the rub with what you say, we know that all 25th ranked classes are not equal.  It is about evaluation and needs, it does not appear this staff did a good job of this.  I might want a 3 star that is still maturing and improving over 4 or even 5 star.  Also, I think we could squeeze a few more recruits out of Lil Ole Arkansas.  If what you say is correct, it raises more questions about our strength and conditioning program.

We very well may have had an S&C issue...but that's coaching, as is player development, which hasn't been impressive...especially on the OL.  We had enough talent this year to spank Coastal Carolina, it just didn't happen.  We had aTm and MSU on the ropes and let them slip away...if we had won those two games and spanked CC, Bielema would be here next year.  I'm ignoring all the key injuries that certainly had some effect, but regardless we have enough talent to win more than we have.  To be honest, I'm very surprised because I had more confidence in Enos and Rhoads.  There's just no arguing the results.

I know it would help if we recruited more difference makers, and CBB didn't knock it out of the park, recruiting wise, but he did as well as anyone else has recently.   

[factchecker]

25 limit was in place under Nutt.

What?  You know they made the limit because of Nutt.  They named it the Houston Nutt rule.

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2010/02/sec_teams_adjust_to_houston_nu.html

Houston Nutt signed 37 players at Ole Miss last February, leading the SEC to adopt a signing cap this season that will become a national rule starting Aug. 1.This article appeared Wednesday, Feb. 3, in The Birmingham News.

The initial results of the "Houston Nutt Rule" begin to emerge today. SEC teams will be limited to signing 28 football recruits, with the usual maximum of 25 allowed to enroll in the fall.

[rtr]

What?  You know they made the limit because of Nutt.  They named it the Houston Nutt rule.

http://blog.al.com/solomon/2010/02/sec_teams_adjust_to_houston_nu.html

The limit was 25, Nutt oversigned the limit and tried to greyshirt some. 

[Bubba's Bruisers]

So you think our recruiting was worse under CBB than Petrino or Nutt?  The rankings sure don't say that under Petrino, and it's very hard to tell with Nutt because he would sign 40+ players every year (this was before the 25 limit).  I can't argue with the coaching part of it, but I don't see that CBB was a sub-standard recruiter.  Do we need better players?  Sure we do, but no one yet has been able to pull off a string of difference-making classes at Arkansas.  I hope that changes.  Maybe Gus can do that...or Hugh Freeze 

I never said he was a substandard recruiter.  He just didn't do anything special in recruiting.  He didn't distinguish himself in recruiting.  He's wasn't obviously better or worse than BP or Nutt.

[ballz2thewall]

So it's the 40 players from TX that makes OU better than us?

How many do they have from Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama, and Georgia?

Alabama only has 12 from Texas.  They're able to find good players in other states, why can't we?
Texas is not our answer to recruiting.  Better recruiters getting better recruits is the answer.  However, CBB recruited as well as anyone has at Arkansas for the last 30 years.  Recruiting wasn't what lead to his downfall...it was coaching.

yep.

[greenie]

25 limit was in place under Nutt.  Yes, they seem to have had more talent.  This may rankle some but CBP was addressing defensive needs:  Philon, Mitchell, Trey Flowers, Wise, even before them we had DD Jones and Byran Jones.  Nutt and Petrino had a ton of playmakers while they were here.  Maybe the coaching now is that subpar, I think it is not good.  Until the current crop performs at a higher level, that is my opinion.  I hope a new strength and conditioning can improve team speed.  You maybe right.  I am ready for the Gus Bus, Norvell or anyone else who can alter the current projectory.

The 25 limit rule, also known as the "Houston Nutt Rule", was put in place on August 1, 2010, well after he left Arkansas.  However, you're right in that he really didn't abuse the numbers until he got to Ole Miss.  Petrino *did* have classes of 40+ in 2008-2010...but we all know that he could have won games with players that were all under 150 lbs.  :-)

[greenie]

I never said he was a substandard recruiter.  He just didn't do anything special in recruiting.  He didn't distinguish himself in recruiting.  He's wasn't obviously better or worse than BP or Nutt.

Sorry, didn't mean to mis-represent your comment.  And I agree, nothing special about recruiting the last 5 years...good or bad.

[Pigasaurus]

 I ask once again, TCU is only TX university with a good team. Does the TX high school players =good college players.

[Sooie71923]

Here's a good example of Arkansas recruiting defecencies;

Tim Horton recruited for Arkansas all those years and was never recognized as a great recruiter.  Goes to Auburn and reels in the studs every year. Top 3 recruiter in the country last year. 

Top recruiters are only top recruiters if they're recruiting to an elite school.

[greenie]

I ask once again, TCU is only TX university with a good team. Does the TX high school players =good college players.

Texas is definitely a hot bed for good players...there's just so much competition for them.  TX, CA, GA, and FL are the big-time producers.

Using the 247 rankings, here's the number of 4* and 5* players for a few key states, and possibly a few interesting states:

1st number is 5*, 2nd number is 4*

TX: 2,42
CA: 3, 38
GA: 4, 33
FL: 4, 48
AL: 0, 10
LA: 1, 10
AR: 0, 2
MS: 0, 1
TN: 1, 8
MO: 0, 6
KY: 0, 3
SC: 0, 4
OK: 1, 5
OH: 2, 12
PA: 1, 10


Now whether 4* and 5* players = good college players is one of the eternal arguments.  The stats would say yes, buy you'll probably have to ask God to find out the real answer.

[Piggfoot]

Frank Broyles gave up our recruiting for money. In the days of old we like Oklahoma and Oklahoma St depended on Texas for our players. Unlike Oklahoma and Okla State we no longer play as many games in Texas as they. The parents of their recruits have more opportunities to see their sons play.
We have made an attempt by playing A&M, then Tech and then TCU.
Tech is so far away and the area too sparsely
populated to make inroads into recruiting there.

We need to establish more home and home games with Texas teams. Doing so will necessitate giving up some of our rent a wins
and home games.
Some possibilities Every year in Dallas , A&M,  every other year TCU OR SMU.
In Houston every other year with Rice and Houston. This would give us three games a year in Texas. For us to succeed we have to re-establish our presence in Texas.

Presently there is no need for fans to subscribe to the SEC network except for A&M fans.

[East Clintwood]

OU is just about as entrenched in TX recruiting as Texas and A&M are.  That and its elite FB history gives them a huge advantage over us.

We seemingly have almost no ties to TX recruiting anymore.  Forget for a moment about TX, A&M and OU all almost living exclusively off TX talent.  Now the recent resurgence of TCU, Baylor, Houston, and OSU, it's getting significantly more difficult to make any measureable difference there.  TT doesn't do to bad either. 

We can get players out of TX, no doubt, but it's likely going to be primarily whatever is left after the big boys fill their plates.

And the longer we wait before putting a big emphasis on recruiting Texas players the less chance we have of being one of the big boys.  Get down there and put some effort in to it.

We're going to have to compete for recruits no matter where we go.

[hawginbigd1]

I never said he was a substandard recruiter.  He just didn't do anything special in recruiting.  He didn't distinguish himself in recruiting.  He's wasn't obviously better or worse than BP or Nutt.

He has recruited better better period, and retention far exceeds the other 2. His problems are coaching and personnel management.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

And the longer we wait before putting a big emphasis on recruiting Texas players the less chance we have of being one of the big boys.  Get down there and put some effort in to it.

We're going to have to compete for recruits no matter where we go.

I agree, but I infer that many are suggesting to practically sell out to TX Recruiting.  I disagree.

[East Clintwood]

I never said he was a substandard recruiter.  He just didn't do anything special in recruiting.  He didn't distinguish himself in recruiting.  He's wasn't obviously better or worse than BP or Nutt.

The rankings were similar but the results were far worse.

That difference was mostly coaching for sure but some part of it was that Bert didn't recruit to his needs and that the evaluation of the recruits was flawed.  We ended up with a lot of players that never saw the field or never contributed in any significant way and a lot of positions that there was no player to fill.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

He has recruited better better period, and retention far exceeds the other 2. His problems are coaching and personnel management.

I don't see it.  Maybe a little better than Nutt, but he's about same as BP.   

I agree that his coaching sucks.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

The rankings were similar but the results were far worse.

That difference was mostly coaching for sure but some part of it was that Bert didn't recruit to his needs and that the evaluation of the recruits was flawed.  We ended up with a lot of players that never saw the field or never contributed in any significant way and a lot of positions that there was no player to fill.

I should clarify something, and this is probably my fault from the start.  I think he recruited well enough to win 6 or 7 games on average and remain employed, but that wasn't the context I was opining in. 

He did not recruit well enough to do anything meaningful here even if he was a competent coach.  That's the context I meant.

So yes, his coaching got him fired, but he never recruited well enough to be more the average anyway...regardless of his coaching ability.

[East Clintwood]

I agree, but I infer that many are suggesting to practically sell out to TX Recruiting.  I disagree.

I agree there, recruit anywhere you can get quality players, don't ignore any place.

One advantage to Texas recruits, at lease a portion of them is proximity.  It's generally easier to recruit players that can make visits back to their home within a reasonable days drive.   When ot gets into an 18-20 hour drive or an airline ticket, it gets more difficult.

[HogCzar1]

How did he fail to effectively recruit TX?

He angered nearly every high school coach in the state of Texas when he spoke out against the hurry up offense at an event in Texas. This was in his 1st or 2nd year.

[Atlhogfan1]

He angered nearly every high school coach in the state of Texas when he spoke out against the hurry up offense at an event in Texas. This was in his 1st or 2nd year.

Is that how he got highly recruited Texans like Whaley and Pool?

This Texas thing is grossly overblown.  But the only obsession close to the in state nonsense is the Texas obsession. 

[Hogman2]

Bielema failed to recruit Texas because he told Texas HS coaches the spread won't work!  Consider the fact that in Texas, 90 percent run this offense!

[bphi11ips]

Is that how he got highly recruited Texans like Whaley and Pool?

This Texas thing is grossly overblown.  But the only obsession close to the in state nonsense is the Texas obsession. 

How would you recruit to Arkansas?  Give us your blueprint for the good of the program.

[Atlhogfan1]

Hog signees from Texas by class from
2002:  5
9
8 out of 35 committed
6
8
8
2 2008 BP
8 out of 31 committed
4
5
6
3 2013 BB
2
4
4
2

At most about 1/4 to 1/3 from Texas in a class.  I get it though. People are reaching for the answer to our recruiting issue.   

[HogCzar1]

Is that how he got highly recruited Texans like Whaley and Pool?

This Texas thing is grossly overblown.  But the only obsession close to the in state nonsense is the Texas obsession. 

You can make a few exceptions. Bumper Pool has strong family connections to UA no matter the coach.

But, overall, you are going to have a very hard case to make that we have recruited Texas well since CBB has been here.
Especially good skill players. I respectfully disagree about the Texas thing being overblown. Especially with the number of students at the UA from the state of Texas.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I agree.
If Oklahoma can do it there is no reason we can't bring in the players to Arkansas

Reality is a smack in the face. Oklahoma has had decades of success overall, 7 national championships, 40+ conference championships, 158 All Americans, etc, etc.

Arkansas has 1 national championship, 13 conference championships, 3 divisional championships and 47 All Americans.

Oklahoma has the bigger draw and that is why they can walk into Texas and do well.

A better question is, why can't we do as well as Oklahoma State in recruiting Texas and developing that talent for play in the SEC?

[DoctorSusscrofa]

One reason being the fact he never went after assistants that had heavy ties in Texas, always going after assistants from the North it seemed.  We have two coaches currently that are good recruiters that recruit States other than Arkansas, but none worth a darn in Texas.

Give us a specific list of every coach he "went after" including those who said "no."

[HogNTX]

The life blood of a program is recruiting and everything that goes with it (evaluation, actual recruiting the player, fit, development) but it starts and ends with recruiting. That said where does our new coach HAVE to recruit well?

I think he has to recruit Arkansas and keep the limited amount of talent in the state at home and playing for the Hogs. We're going to have 2-5 top prospects that need to stay home every year. And we have to find those players undervalued nationally but have the talent to be ranked higher (which is true of a lot of players in Arkansas).

He has to effectively recruit Texas with not only top talent but the guys that aren't going to rank your class high but will fill out your program and develop.

He has to recruit Tulsa and top programs in Oklahoma well. There's talent in Oklahoma and we're too close to Tulsa not to find the talent there.

He has to mine the talent out of eastern Tennessee (Memphis area), Louisiana, Missouri, and Kansas effectively as well. Geographically you could throw Nebraska in there as well.

We also need to pull some talent from Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi but we have to pull them all the way through the SEC to get them.

So what's your take about the areas he HAS to recruit well and who your favorite HC could pull in to effectively recruit those areas?

[lumphog]

Norvell will fixx our recruiting problem