Norvell and Memphis' historic season

[SquidBilly]

I've heard time and again on here how he is too inexperienced and is only winning with Fuente's players.  Well apparently he has Memphis football succeeding at historic levels, levels that Justin Fuente was never able to achieve.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/football/2017/11/19/memphis-tigers-football-moves-up-rankings-after-securing-aac-championship-game-berth/878808001/

[HF#1]

What about defense though?

[Hogsmo Kramer]

He's a good coach and I'd be happy with to have him on the hill.

[Danimal]

I'm starting to fear that Gus is coming here, and Norvell winds up at Auburn -- then we spend the next several years being "taught a lesson"..

[rljjr]

He's number one on my list.

[HF#1]

I'm starting to fear that Gus is coming here, and Norvell winds up at Auburn -- then we spend the next several years being "taught a lesson"..

Auburn won't settle for Norvell.

[hogsanity]

What about defense though?

Memphis plays none. They have given up over 30 6 times, and over 40 3 times. That will not work in a p5 league.

[31to6]

What about defense though?

Most G5's have to put the bulk of their best athletes on offense to compete because they do not get enough talent to load defense and win that way. On offense you can exploit matchups with scheme and play calling and put up points.

On defense, the other team will attack your weakest players and while you can try to scheme to cover for them, it is much much more difficult.

[hogsanity]

Most G5's have to put the bulk of their best athletes on offense to compete because they do not get enough talent to load defense and win that way. On offense you can exploit matchups with scheme and play calling and put up points.

On defense, the other team will attack your weakest players and while you can try to scheme to cover for them, it is much much more difficult.

So, he is putting up points against teams that have little talent on defense ( which I agree there is little defensive talent in that league ) so how do we know that offense will work in the SEC, where some teams actually do have talent on defense?

[Matt Burks]

I've heard time and again on here how he is too inexperienced and is only winning with Fuente's players.  Well apparently he has Memphis football succeeding at historic levels, levels that Justin Fuente was never able to achieve.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/football/2017/11/19/memphis-tigers-football-moves-up-rankings-after-securing-aac-championship-game-berth/878808001/

Fuente spent a few days studying offense from Norvell when Norvell was the Ariz. State OC. After that, Fuente changed the Memphis offense and become the hottest coaches name that year.

The past two years, a large percentage of those starters on Memphis have been Norvell's recruits. Norvell also has Memphis recruiting at a historic level.

He has a balanced offense like Petrino. He's a pay-attention-to-details coach, like Petrino.

However, like Petrino, there are questions about defense. Those are legit questions, but Petrino did extremely well here without a good defense.

[Matt Burks]

So, he is putting up points against teams that have little talent on defense ( which I agree there is little defensive talent in that league ) so how do we know that offense will work in the SEC, where some teams actually do have talent on defense?

[Calling All Hogs]

Auburn won't settle for Norvell.

Why do people buy into the hype that Auburn is a great program that only settles for elite coaches? Their last two coaches have been Gus who came from Arkansas State and Chizik who came with a losing record.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Most G5's have to put the bulk of their best athletes on offense to compete because they do not get enough talent to load defense and win that way. On offense you can exploit matchups with scheme and play calling and put up points.

On defense, the other team will attack your weakest players and while you can try to scheme to cover for them, it is much much more difficult.

Exactly.  And that's why Malzahn was as good as he was at Arkansas State.  He had just enough players on offense to scheme mismatches, and exploit lesser talented defenders.  He can't do that at Auburn unless he has elite talent, which is why he's had ups and downs based on QB in particular. 

This year shows that if you have talent, and a good D coordinator, like Gus has, you don't have to be an expert on both sides of the ball.  I would like to think that if Norvell is our target, he can afford to bring in a top D coordinator.   

[popcornhog]

Memphis plays none. They have given up over 30 6 times, and over 40 3 times. That will not work in a p5 league.

True. But he is succeeding against teams that are on Memphis's level. At Memphis. Something that is not easy to do.

[urkillnmesmalls]

Why do people buy into the hype that Auburn is a great program that only settles for elite coaches? Their last two coaches have been Gus who came from Arkansas State and Chizik who came with a losing record.

Great point.  It's sort of the same at LSU in some respects.  Why did that land on Orgeron when he stunk it up at Ole Miss, and then was passed over for HC vacancies multiple times after that?  It's incredible to me that with their recruiting base, the top coaches in the country wouldn't want to land there so they don't have to lie awake at night wondering if they're going to pick the right one from the remaining 3 star players just to fill out their roster.  I'm still convinced that they did well despite having Les Miles, and if someone like Petrino went down there and got a top D coordinator...he would wreck people.  Just one example...

[007 License To Squeal]

Bret had good years at Wis, but that didn't help him here.....

[hogsanity]

Exactly.  And that's why Malzahn was as good as he was at Arkansas State.  He had just enough players on offense to scheme mismatches, and exploit lesser talented defenders.  He can't do that at Auburn unless he has elite talent, which is why he's had ups and downs based on QB in particular. 

This year shows that if you have talent, and a good D coordinator, like Gus has, you don't have to be an expert on both sides of the ball.  I would like to think that if Norvell is our target, he can afford to bring in a top D coordinator.   

But that D coordinator is going to have to have talent to field a SEC defense. Especially if the offense is going to be some sort of racehorse offense that is going to have a lot of 3 and outs.

[Marshfieldhog]

I'm all in for Norvell

[HoggyCat]

What about defense though?

Big 12 defense.


So we take Gundy, they hire him. 😂😂

[colbs]

Bret had good years at Wis, but that didn't help him here.....

You can say that about any candidate. 

[HawgTide]

Auburn won't settle for Norvell.

Sarcasm?   

They hired Chizik didn't they?

[Hawg Life]

But that D coordinator is going to have to have talent to field a SEC defense. Especially if the offense is going to be some sort of racehorse offense that is going to have a lot of 3 and outs.

Gus' D coordinator makes the same salary as Norvelll. So, in comparing Memphis Defense to Auburn you must also take into account the salary pool. Would Norvell's defense be better with a $1.7 DC? Also, for what they'll pay Gus you could hire Norvell &Venables.

[Roy Bacon]

So, he is putting up points against teams that have little talent on defense ( which I agree there is little defensive talent in that league ) so how do we know that offense will work in the SEC, where some teams actually do have talent on defense?

Memphis is a team madeup of mainly 3 star players at best . Memphis just put up 66 points on SMU who humbled ( well , it should have ) ASU this year . SMU had plenty of incentive to stop Memphis since it's a conference game for them , but they couldn't .  Good chance Norvell's defensive coordinator won't land here if Norvell does , but like Tuverville said it's all about players . 66 is a lot of point to score on a conference opponent . When is the last time we've done it ?

[ipigsooie]

He's a good coach and I'd be happy with to have him on the hill.

Funny. Look back 2 years ago when Fuente was the hot coach. His defense was awful at Memphis. How has that turned out at VT?

[East TN HAWG]

Auburn won't settle for Norvell.

They hired a coach from Ark St last time. 

[farmhawg]

Memphis plays none. They have given up over 30 6 times, and over 40 3 times. That will not work in a p5 league.

Neither do we, so what? Hire a dc.

[SquidBilly]

Neither do we, so what? Hire a dc.

Agreed, there isn't a coach out there who is a specialist on both sides of the ball.  We bring in Norvell, then let him hire a high caliber DC.  It's not hard to understand how it could work.  Essentially Norvell can tell his DC here are your 10-15 recruiting slots, go get what you need and make it work.  All the while Norvell and his OC can work on the offense.  Then in practice and the scrimmages they can compete, I mean really compete, to see who's better, the offense or defense, and tune it from there.

[The Boar War]

Funny. Look back 2 years ago when Fuente was the hot coach. His defense was awful at Memphis. How has that turned out at VT?

I would imagine longtime defensive coordinator Bud Foster has a lot to do with that.

[urkillnmesmalls]

But that D coordinator is going to have to have talent to field a SEC defense. Especially if the offense is going to be some sort of racehorse offense that is going to have a lot of 3 and outs.

True, and there's not a perfect answer.  You either accept that up tempo will field a tired defense at times...and hope to out score people, or you focus on defense and try to have a balanced offense that can hopefully prevent that. 

I think our strategy for keeping the defense fresh this season was a little different than CBB had planned.  How can the defense be tired when the opponent is scoring in 3 or 4 plays?      

[HF#1]

They hired a coach from Ark St last time. 

Who was their offensive coordinator before he left for Arkansas State.

[HF#1]

Memphis plays none. They have given up over 30 6 times, and over 40 3 times. That will not work in a p5 league.

It's like nobody pays attention to Alabama or Clemson. They can win big games and demolish virtually anyone because they play defense. Defense has and always will win championships.  Offense just wins games. Ask Petrino.

[Sivad]

So, he is putting up points against teams that have little talent on defense ( which I agree there is little defensive talent in that league ) so how do we know that offense will work in the SEC, where some teams actually do have talent on defense?

The question that stumps the Norvell band.

[GuvHog]

Memphis plays none. They have given up over 30 6 times, and over 40 3 times. That will not work in a p5 league.

Memphis is having to play a lot of sophomores and freshmen on defense the year due to injury problems.

[hoghearted]

I'm all in for Norvell

Me too

[HognotinMemphis]

What about defense though?

SMU scored 45 on them, so no, he has zero defense there. And no defense in SEC = getting your ass whipped into a gooey mess by top 5 or 6 teams in SEC about every season.

[SchrodingersHog]

I'm starting to fear that Gus is coming here, and Norvell winds up at Auburn -- then we spend the next several years being "taught a lesson"..

It might be worse than that.  Gus comes to Arkansas, then Auburn hires Petrino.

[hogsanity]

Memphis is having to play a lot of sophomores and freshmen on defense the year due to injury problems.

Injuries are just an excuse, I read that on Hogville.

[HF#1]

SMU scored 45 on them, so no, he has zero defense there. And no defense in SEC = getting your ass whipped into a gooey mess by top 5 or 6 teams in SEC about every season.

Even Petrino had middle of the road defenses. That got him some 10+ win seasons. Never could let go of the athletes it took to field a championship defense though. Give me Venables and a good OC.

[online-with-swine]

SMU scored 45 on them, so no, he has zero defense there. And no defense in SEC = getting your ass whipped into a gooey mess by top 5 or 6 teams in SEC about every season.

As opposed to us this year where we have neither offense nor defense.

[OtterHog]

Even Petrino had middle of the road defenses. That got him some 10+ win seasons. Never could let go of the athletes it took to field a championship defense though. Give me Venables and a good OC.

Could've had Venables five years ago but he didn't write Jeffy a love note.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Don't know enough about Norvell to have a clue if he'll be any good or not.  He's definitely the flavor of the month guy.

[davehog]

Funny. Look back 2 years ago when Fuente was the hot coach. His defense was awful at Memphis. How has that turned out at VT?

Logic.  Intelligent post alert. 

This is a great point and there is a relevant precedence. 

[menace_hawg3]

What makes y'all think that he doesn't know or care that his defense sucks?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

What makes y'all think that he doesn't know or care that his defense sucks?

Because that was the same claim of Petrino, so it must be true of Norvell too.  Odd that such was never really uttered about BB.  I mean come on.

[Hoggish1]

Funny. Look back 2 years ago when Fuente was the hot coach. His defense was awful at Memphis. How has that turned out at VT?

Foster

[menace_hawg3]

Because that was the same claim of Petrino, so it must be true of Norvell too.  Odd that such was never really uttered about BB.  I mean come on.

I honestly don't see what Norvell has to do with Petrino. When Petrino went to Louisville, he had Louisville put up a million for Todd Grantham. So he did care a little bit about defense.

Norvell's mentor is a defensive coach. I'm sure they talk. If you know what I mean.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Foster

Likely with significantly better talent.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I honestly don't see what Norvell has to do with Petrino. When Petrino went to Louisville, he had Louisville put up a million for Todd Grantham. So he did care a little bit about defense.

Norvell's mentor is a defensive coach. I'm sure they talk. If you know what I mean.

I was being facetious.  Making fun of those claims.

[menace_hawg3]

I was being facetious.  Making fun of those claims.

I figured you were.

[jvanhorn]

Memphis plays none. They have given up over 30 6 times, and over 40 3 times. That will not work in a p5 league.

I don't know if it will or not but I have seen an awful lot of scores lately in the 50 something to 40 something range.  Obviously he will have to upgrade his defense.  I suspect he know that just like Riley at OU knows, and god knows they have gotten pretty far without a great defense,  he is going to have to do the same.  You act like all these great young coaches are set in stone and can't adjust. But great coaches adjust all the time.  It is always a work in progress.  New offenses and defenses show up from time to time and the adjustments are made.  May take awhile because maybe you need a different type of player to make those adjustments but, as they say in baseball, speed never goes in a slump, lol.