Why is recruiting such a struggle here?

[nwahogfan1]

In other news: recruiting seems to be going very well right now. Should make everyone happy.

Can you give me your reasons for your thinking that recruiting is going very well?  I want as much good news as I can read.

[nwahogfan1]

They could not have been more different and I've known Packer longer than Nolan. Packer was generally pleasant enough on TV, especially in his early years with NBC. But, in person as he moved up the ladder and became CBS's number one basketball color analyst, he developed a reputation as a bully. A better comparison would be Packer to Bobby Petrino who also liked to boss around co workers and belittle them.

Nolan used his press conferences to blow off steam. It was amazing to watch him get angry in front of the cameras and totally transform afterward. I told him one time that he ought to pay us (the local media) for serving as his therapists. He laughed because he knew I was right.

I never blamed him for that. He worked for people in the BAC who drove him nuts on a regular basis. He needed a way to get rid of his frustrations. However, in person you would not find a nicer guy and a funnier person to shoot the breeze with. He was hilarious (still is). He'd have me laughing so hard I could barely stand up.

When ever I spoke to Nolan on the recruiting trail he was always cordial to me and I loved chatting with him and over all he did a good job while at Arkansas while many times being under adverse conditions.

But many times after games he would vent some pretty bad things putting him and the team against the big bad establishment.   He was getting paid big bucks which afforded him a lot of luxuries by the very people he was ranting against  and who were writing those huge checks.  He had a huge responsibility to his boasters and to his Boss no matter what he thought of them. 

If he wanted to vent then he needed to do it somewhere else besides the Press and on TV in front of millions of people who really could care less.  It really hurt Arkansas image and his recruiting appeal nationally I think.

[Mike Irwin]

When ever I spoke to Nolan on the recruiting trail he was always cordial to me and I loved chatting with him and over all he did a good job while at Arkansas while many times being under adverse conditions.

But many times after games he would vent some pretty bad things putting him and the team against the big bad establishment.   He was getting paid big bucks which afforded him a lot of luxuries by the very people he was ranting against  and who were writing those huge checks.  He had a huge responsibility to his boasters and to his Boss no matter what he thought of them. 

If he wanted to vent then he needed to do it somewhere else besides the Press and on TV in front of millions of people who really could care less.  It really hurt Arkansas image and his recruiting appeal nationally I think.

If it hurt how did he go to three Final Four's, two national championship games and win a national championship?
A lot of folks understood Nolan's anger and agreed with him. Unless you were around campus in those days you have no idea of the crap Frank and his people put Nolan through. Also the environment in college basketball is so totally different these days that it hard for some to remeber what it was like for Nolan in the 80's and 90's. Billy Packer and others were always harping on how solid Bob Knight was as a coach. Nolan, on the other hand, was supposedly a playground coach who rolled a ball out and told his players to get after it.

Not one time did Frank or any of his people ever defend Nolan against this nonsense. On the contrary. They went along with it acting like Nolan needed to go back to school and learn to coach.

Also you are misinformed if you think Nolan was making big bucks. Up until he won the national title a big chunk of his salary came from a shoe contract that he negotiated himself. Frank tried to make him give it up.
Everybody has an opinion on this. I could not disagree more with yours.

[WilsonHog]

If it hurt how did he go to three Final Four's, two national championship games and win a national championship?
A lot of folks understood Nolan's anger and agreed with him. Unless you were around campus in those days you have no idea of the crap Frank and his people put Nolan through. Also the environment in college basketball is so totally different these days that it hard for some to remeber what it was like for Nolan in the 80's and 90's. Billy Packer and others were always harping on how solid Bob Knight was as a coach. Nolan, on the other hand, was supposedly a playground coach who rolled a ball out and told his players to get after it.

Not one time did Frank or any of his people ever defend Nolan against this nonsense. On the contrary. They went along with it acting like Nolan needed to go back to school and learn to coach.

Also you are misinformed if you think Nolan was making big bucks. Up until he won the national title a big chunk of his salary came from a shoe contract that he negotiated himself. Frank tried to make him give it up.
Everybody has an opinion on this. I could not disagree more with yours.

Keep bringing the knowledge. Between your posts and Doug's admonition above, this has been the best thread in Jump Ball in weeks.

[GBHawg]

Not really. Things are beginning to pop here in Arkansas for basketball talent, but our AAU teams tend to be smoke and mirrors in that they have traditionally dodged some of the big tournaments that are attended by elite East Coast teams. They claim a lot of national championships in large part because those elite teams do not attend.

Also, the cities you mention, only a couple are actually in the 300 mile range of Fayetteville and don't fit the proximity model at all. Not to mention that there are plenty of D1 schools within the natural recruiting radius of those areas.

Oklahoma City is practically in Norman for crying out loud. Dallas has A&M, Austin, Norman, and now SMU with Larry Brown. Kansas City is Mizzou and Kansas territory. Saint Louis is a combination of Big Ten and Mizzou. Memphis hasn't been fertile grounds even while Nolan was still coaching here.

You are not being realistic.

You do know that the Wings play in the Nike EYBL league against the BEST teams in the country?  They finished 2nd with a 12-5 record.  The Wings are not avoiding anyone.  The younger 14U team played in the Dallas PrimeTime Nationals against 92 teams from all over the nation.  The Wings won the tournament and the closest game was 13 points.  We have lots of talented players in Arkansas.

[Aztec57]

So let me get this straight. You used to be friends with Nolan which means he was friends with you. But then he said some stuff when he got fired that ticked you off. So you're not really a Razorback basketball fan anymore but you know a lot of stuff so from time to time you pop in and let us know why the basketball program is unsuccessful.

Got it.

As for your threat to me, my post to you had no reference in it as to your attitude about Mike vs a white coach. If I felt that way I would have referenced your fake Hogville name when I made the post in response to a post not from you but from TomBigBeeHog. That's how a message board works.

#1 Thanks for getting me banned Mike

#2 I doubt Nolan ever knew me by more than my 1st name, although he and the team always came into the bleachers and shook our hands and spoke a few minutes. It was clear at that point he enjoyed having UA fans in the stands at the SWC road venues. He and the team knew us by face and 1st name, so maybe he wasn't a friend, but just glad a few Razorback fans made it to the SWC games.

#3 I have never had more than 1 HV ID and rarely post here. Now, I have a 2nd thanks to being banned for my conversation with you Mike Irwin. I am sure this will get me banned again, but I don't care and won't be back if lending non offensive opinion in this forum causes that so easily.

#4 Still a huge Razorback fan and fly the Ark banner and flag proudly in Florida and attend games when I can. I just have lost interest in the hoops hogs, even though that used to be my passion.

#5 Threat to you...LOL Come on Mike, that wasn't a threat. I was clarifying who you said wanted the UA basketball coach to be white, while you were engaging me and why I didn't care for Nolan after his antics that ultimately got him fired. 

[Doug]

#1 Thanks for getting me banned Mike

Not that you'll be able to reply to this, but here you go.

#1: Mike didn't get you banned. YOU got yourself deleted. Why? For being a blathering idiot and not knowing when to stop trolling.

#2: I banned and deleted you this time (but not the first time). Why? Because when you get deleted/banned, that's not an invitation to "come back to Hogville after you've been banned/deleted. We'll welcome your dumb ass crap again!".

#3: If you decide to get stupid a third time, I will personally ensure that is a decision you regret. No hacking, no threats. Just an absolute promise.

[Mike Irwin]

For the record I'm not responsible if somebody becomes unglued simply because I can't figure out why they're posting in the Hoops Forum. It was a legitimate question. If you don't care about Hog basketball why are you here?

He resorted to name calling. I did not.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Not that you'll be able to reply to this, but here you go.

#1: Mike didn't get you banned. YOU got yourself deleted. Why? For being a blathering idiot and not knowing when to stop trolling.

#2: I banned and deleted you this time (but not the first time). Why? Because when you get deleted/banned, that's not an invitation to "come back to Hogville after you've been banned/deleted. We'll welcome your dumb ass crap again!".

#3: If you decide to get stupid a third time, I will personally ensure that is a decision you regret. No hacking, no threats. Just an absolute promise.

Thanks for spraying that air freshener in here. Nice.

[HognitiveDissonance]

If it hurt how did he go to three Final Four's, two national championship games and win a national championship?
A lot of folks understood Nolan's anger and agreed with him. Unless you were around campus in those days you have no idea of the crap Frank and his people put Nolan through. Also the environment in college basketball is so totally different these days that it hard for some to remeber what it was like for Nolan in the 80's and 90's. Billy Packer and others were always harping on how solid Bob Knight was as a coach. Nolan, on the other hand, was supposedly a playground coach who rolled a ball out and told his players to get after it.

Not one time did Frank or any of his people ever defend Nolan against this nonsense. On the contrary. They went along with it acting like Nolan needed to go back to school and learn to coach.

Also you are misinformed if you think Nolan was making big bucks. Up until he won the national title a big chunk of his salary came from a shoe contract that he negotiated himself. Frank tried to make him give it up.
Everybody has an opinion on this. I could not disagree more with yours.

There's no black and white on these discussion points, I don't think. There's some truth in the varying posts and opinions posted here, in my opinion. Just to keep the banter going:

1)My one encounter with Nolan was pleasant as well. This goes way back, Day and Mayberry were playing on some team(USA team? AAU team? My memory is foggy) and they were preparing/practicing at the Lloyd Noble Center at OU one summer, must have been 1990. He was in the stands watching his players, I guess, and I was too and we had a pleasant chat.

2)Couldn't Ken Hatfield, to use one example, say similar things about putting up with stuff from his boss(es), that being Frank? I would venture to say Frank's football meddling was more advanced than any basketball meddling.

3)Agree that it was a little tougher on black trailblazers like Nolan than it is on black coaches today. The old joke, you go 37-0 and hear things like 'wonder what Dean Smith could have done with that team?' Ha. How do you improve much on 37-0? I've also said numerous times that John Robert Starr(in my humble opinion) was either the biggest curmudgeon around or a flat-out racist. He never accepted Nolan to the bitter end. Wally Hall was also a thorn in the early years, but he came around. Not so with Starr.

4)I think Nolan was well compensated for his efforts. I recall a large annuity Frank put together either after the first Final 4 appearance or after the 1994 season. No issues there. Pay for performance. In fact, I don't know how any recent UA coach in the last 25 years or so can claim with a straight face they were unfairly compensated. Not a single one comes to mind. I'm speaking of measuring how well they performed and also factoring what the market was. I think they've all been taken care of rather well, in salaries as well as facilities. They really have no excuses, none of them.

[Mike Irwin]

There's no black and white on these discussion points, I don't think. There's some truth in the varying posts and opinions posted here, in my opinion. Just to keep the banter going:

1)My one encounter with Nolan was pleasant as well. This goes way back, Day and Mayberry were playing on some team(USA team? AAU team? My memory is foggy) and they were preparing/practicing at the Lloyd Noble Center at OU one summer, must have been 1990. He was in the stands watching his players, I guess, and I was too and we had a pleasant chat.

2)Couldn't Ken Hatfield, to use one example, say similar things about putting up with stuff from his boss(es), that being Frank? I would venture to say Frank's football meddling was more advanced than any basketball meddling.

3)Agree that it was a little tougher on black trailblazers like Nolan than it is on black coaches today. The old joke, you go 37-0 and hear things like 'wonder what Dean Smith could have done with that team?' Ha. How do you improve much on 37-0? I've also said numerous times that John Robert Starr(in my humble opinion) was either the biggest curmudgeon around or a flat-out racist. He never accepted Nolan to the bitter end. Wally Hall was also a thorn in the early years, but he came around. Not so with Starr.

4)I think Nolan was well compensated for his efforts. I recall a large annuity Frank put together either after the first Final 4 appearance or after the 1994 season. No issues there. Pay for performance. In fact, I don't know how any recent UA coach in the last 25 years or so can claim with a straight face they were unfairly compensated. Not a single one comes to mind. I'm speaking of measuring how well they performed and also factoring what the market was. I think they've all been taken care of rather well, in salaries as well as facilities. They really have no excuses, none of them.

There's no question that Nolan should have done what Hatfield did. Get out while he was a hot property. This is the thing that Nolan's critics never understood about him. He didn't want to go anywhere else. He really, really liked NWA, he liked Arkansas fans and he liked being the coach of the Razorbacks. Why to you think he still lives here?

Hatfield put up with Frank for seven years. Nolan endured him for seventeen years. By the late 90's the situation had gotten ridiculous. Nolan would put in a request to replace a broken VCR in the video room and Frank would send him a note reading, You've got plenty of money. Buy it yourself.

A lot of stuff like that went on.

He got angry when it happened but Nolan was almost relieved to be out from under the stress by the time he got fired.

Nolan was underpaid until 1995. After that he made good but not great money for a coach with his accomplishments. The one thing he did have was a big buyout because he was certain he was going to need it sooner or later.

[WarPig88]

You do know that the Wings play in the Nike EYBL league against the BEST teams in the country?  They finished 2nd with a 12-5 record.  The Wings are not avoiding anyone.  The younger 14U team played in the Dallas PrimeTime Nationals against 92 teams from all over the nation.  The Wings won the tournament and the closest game was 13 points.  We have lots of talented players in Arkansas.

I know they do NOW, but in years past they absolutely dodged big name teams. Marcus Monk is running the program now and intentionally sought out the best tournaments for the guys this summer. I heard he and Crawford talking about it on the radio about 3 weeks ago. Crawford had some lame excuses for dodging Las Vegas, but as the new director Monk believed it was in the best interest of the guys on the team to play against better competition regardless of where they had to go to do it.

Just because a tournament is called "nationals" doesn't mean it is the top one out there. Especially in summer travel ball sports.

[WarPig88]

If recruiting or coaching is so hard here, how has the baseball team made the NCAAs 14 years in a row? I know, I know, it's a different sport, different this or that...(not really).
See, there is a program right down the street that's blowing every sport and their excuses out of the water. They just won't fly. There's no reason basketball can't do that. I can make a great argument that doing it in basketball might be a bit easier than doing in baseball. (I said, a bit, not a lot).

The baseball team doesn't even give full rides to nearly all its' players. It is made up of nearly all 6' middle class white kids who obviously wouldn't feel out of place in Fayetteville, AR.

There probably isn't a more Apples to Oranges scenario.

[HognitiveDissonance]

The baseball team doesn't even give full rides to nearly all its' players. It is made up of nearly all 6' middle class white kids who obviously wouldn't feel out of place in Fayetteville, AR.

There probably isn't a more Apples to Oranges scenario.

I gotta hand it to you, I wasn't expecting that. I'm speechless.
Baseball doesn't give full rides...and yet somehow that's spun as a negative for basketball? Wow.

Explain to me how Sutton's Hogs managed to make the NCAAs nine straight years. How Richardson's Hogs made the NCAAs nine straight years from 88-96. I don't think the demographic makeup of NWA was any more diverse back then(just the opposite).

And they didn't a practice facility!
And they didn't even have Bud Walton Arena!

Newflash: SEC baseball is actually more competitive than SEC basketball is in an average year.

Unbelievable.

[WarPig88]

I gotta hand it to you, I wasn't expecting that. I'm speechless.
Baseball doesn't give full rides...and yet somehow that's spun as a negative for basketball? Wow.

Explain to me how Sutton's Hogs managed to make the NCAAs nine straight years. How Richardson's Hogs made the NCAAs nine straight years from 88-96. I don't think the demographic makeup of NWA was any more diverse back then(just the opposite).

And they didn't a practice facility!
And they didn't even have Bud Walton Arena!

Newflash: SEC baseball is actually more competitive than SEC basketball is in an average year.

Unbelievable.

Seriously? First of all, all of baseball not giving full rides is a big factor because schools that are less expensive are actually better landing spots than huge schools in areas where the cost of living and tuition are much higher. U of A is attractive in that sense.

Nolan said back in the 90s that Fayetteville didn't have a lot oriented toward young African American men to do and that it made recruiting to there more difficult than other places.

The baseball team is made up of primarily middle class white kids. You really don't see the difference?

Baseball is a warm weather sport. When's the last time you knew of the Big Ten being tough in baseball? Basketball is played everywhere.

How many more differences do you need?

[WilsonHog]

Baseball is an absolutely horrible comparison.

[farmhawg]

Baseball is an absolutely horrible comparison.

You are correct, that is night and day different.

[Big Nasty 34]

But in one instance hogs baseball recruiting is very similar the past few years as hogs basketball recruiting was for most of the 90s. Hogs baseball is nationally known, competitive yearly, top 5 facilities.. Much like Nolan when BWA opened up, it makes recruiting much easier.

[texas tush hog]

Basketball is not like football, you don't have to wait 4 years to see the rewards of building a program. One, maybe Two solid recruiting classes and you can be in the top 5 of almost any league.

So why has Coach A gotten a pass on this? Outside of Portis, who would have come here no matter who the coach was almost, we are recruiting very poorly. Begging for marginal players to fill out a class. Jimmy Whitt looks to be legit, but there is no reason we should have had a problem signing 3 players of his caliber this year. Instead of taking a risk on Kapita and striking out with basically everyone else.

It seems we get one solid player in each class then the rest are either projects or transfer after a season. Auburn is a crap basketball school and Pearl is having no problem finding players? What gives?

If you have to ask you wouldn't understand.

[majp51]

At the risk of Derailing this thread by trying to bring it back on topic.

Arkansas has a lot of Scholarships available for next year even if you don't count the current Legal issues that may result in even more.

Total number of 4 and 5 star players considering Arkansas, per scout.com? 3.

Now let's compare that with the res of the SEC West (Arkansas being the only School who might even remotely be considered a Basketball school)

Auburn - 8 players 4 and 5 start considering
Alabama - 6 players
LSU - 6 players
Ole Miss - 4 players
MSU - 10 players
Texas A&M - not reporting at the moment.

So in terms of recruiting, unless Arkansas lands everyone on their list, they are pretty much guaranteed to have fewer projected good to great players on the roster than almost everyone else in the SEC.

Why are only 3  Players in the 4-5 Star range even looking at Arkansas?

I count MSU and Auburn as outliers because
A) Lots of roster space
B) Two coaches that were always labeled as outstanding recruiters.


OK As an aside, when I say Arkansas is the only school that could be considered a Basketball school is that there are only 3 teams from the SEC West that have made the Final Four, Arkansas , LSU and MSU. MSU only has 1 appearance, and honestly outside of a run in the 1960's , no real history besides that. The Bulk of LSU's history revolves around Shaquille O'Neal and stuff from the 1950's and Before.

LSU and Arkansas are the only schools in the SEC West with National Titles. And LSU's Title is 80 years old this year.

[Jim Harris]

Sidney wasn't a nationwide recruit.

Why when talk about recruits do so many mix how a player turns out with his status as a recruit.

If we recruited Sidney now, there would be jerks on here complaining about his shot and that he was a project, etc.

Sounds familiar.

He was recruited by Michigan State and LSU. Does that make him somewhat a nationwide recruit?

[poloprince]

Most recruits hear what Deandre Hunter heard. "That its country and there's nothing around there to do". They not only hear that from other players, but other coaches.

[WarPig88]

He was recruited by Michigan State and LSU. Does that make him somewhat a nationwide recruit?

You mean like Malik Monk is?

[WarPig88]

At the risk of Derailing this thread by trying to bring it back on topic.

Arkansas has a lot of Scholarships available for next year even if you don't count the current Legal issues that may result in even more.

Total number of 4 and 5 star players considering Arkansas, per scout.com? 3.

Now let's compare that with the res of the SEC West (Arkansas being the only School who might even remotely be considered a Basketball school)

Auburn - 8 players 4 and 5 start considering
Alabama - 6 players
LSU - 6 players
Ole Miss - 4 players
MSU - 10 players
Texas A&M - not reporting at the moment.

So in terms of recruiting, unless Arkansas lands everyone on their list, they are pretty much guaranteed to have fewer projected good to great players on the roster than almost everyone else in the SEC.

Why are only 3  Players in the 4-5 Star range even looking at Arkansas?

I count MSU and Auburn as outliers because
A) Lots of roster space
B) Two coaches that were always labeled as outstanding recruiters.


OK As an aside, when I say Arkansas is the only school that could be considered a Basketball school is that there are only 3 teams from the SEC West that have made the Final Four, Arkansas , LSU and MSU. MSU only has 1 appearance, and honestly outside of a run in the 1960's , no real history besides that. The Bulk of LSU's history revolves around Shaquille O'Neal and stuff from the 1950's and Before.

LSU and Arkansas are the only schools in the SEC West with National Titles. And LSU's Title is 80 years old this year.

Do you even realize that we just had a lowly 3 star recruit sign an NBA contract with the Thunder?

Ever hear of Steph Curry?

Ever hear of Olu Famutimi? How about Steven Hill? How about Michael Sanchez? Ricky Scott? Devonta Abron? Hunter Mickelson?

These are all 4 star and plus studs you would be tickled with building the program around instead of guys like Qualls?

Also, our last 4 commits were 4 star players.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Seriously? First of all, all of baseball not giving full rides is a big factor because schools that are less expensive are actually better landing spots than huge schools in areas where the cost of living and tuition are much higher. U of A is attractive in that sense.

Nolan said back in the 90s that Fayetteville didn't have a lot oriented toward young African American men to do and that it made recruiting to there more difficult than other places.

The baseball team is made up of primarily middle class white kids. You really don't see the difference?

Baseball is a warm weather sport. When's the last time you knew of the Big Ten being tough in baseball? Basketball is played everywhere.

How many more differences do you need?

Yea, yea, I get it.
Your agenda comes through loud and clear.
You use racial slurs directed at white people(and when called on it say, 'oh, well, black folk can be redneck too!) and then also pooh-pooh accomplishments by a white coach(boy, does he have it easier!)

And you still didn't explain, since basketball is at such a 'disadvantage', how Eddie and Nolan both made the NCAAs nine years in a row each.

It says here that SEC baseball is actually even more competitive than SEC basketball has been, in recent years. There have been more Top 25 baseball teams than Top 25 basketball teams in recent years.

It also says here that Eddie, Nolan, and yes, Van Horn do what they do because they were or are very good at their jobs. No excuses.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Baseball is an absolutely horrible comparison.

I'll say it again. Of the three major sports, on paper the easiest to contend in the SEC is: 1)basketball 2)baseball 3)football

Football would be by far the toughest. Not that the others are easy, mind you, but relatively speaking.

[HognitiveDissonance]

I want to make something clear. I mentioned Eddie and Nolan. In some ways, comparing whoever the UA hoops coach is to those guys is unfair to some degree, because you're talking about two Hall of Fame coaches there. One is already in, and the other should be soon.

It took me about 10 years (after say, 1996) for it to sink in that the UA program really isn't that special, in and of itself. Yes, we have a great arena, passionate fans, etc. moreso than most SEC schools. But it was really two Hall of Fame coaches that set UA basketball apart. It's been a run of some average to decent coaches since then, and the UA has fallen back to the pack.

[Pork Twain]

Do you even realize that we just had a lowly 3 star recruit sign an NBA contract with the Thunder?

Ever hear of Steph Curry?

Ever hear of Olu Famutimi? How about Steven Hill? How about Mark Sanchez? Ricky Scott? Devonta Abron? Hunter Mickelson?

These are all 4 star and plus studs you would be tickled with building the program around instead of guys like Qualls?

Also, our last 4 commits were 4 star players.

Good job, you have just defined what outliers look like.

For the most part, this style does not put players into the NBA with any realistic chance of a long career.  Never has, never will.

[JayBell]

Remember how bad it was when Anderson went into Columbia and got Whitt?  Well Vanderbilt just went into Fayetteville and got Payton Willis (verbal, of course).

If Anderson loses Willis and Monk and keeps losing in-state players to direct competition, the question can't be, "Why is recruting such a struggle here?" anymore.  You have to start asking, "Why is this staff so poor at recruiting?"

[MikePiazza]

No excuse to not go after Payton Willis. He would've been a 3, 4-year player and now he's going to be that at a conference rival. Watch him turn into an all-SEC guard there.

[Mike Irwin]

Remember how bad it was when Anderson went into Columbia and got Whitt?  Well Vanderbilt just went into Fayetteville and got Payton Willis (verbal, of course).

If Anderson loses Willis and Monk and keeps losing in-state players to direct competition, the question can't be, "Why is recruting such a struggle here?" anymore.  You have to start asking, "Why is this staff so poor at recruiting?"

They're going after players they believe are better. Is that a gamble? Sure. But all I've read in this place for the last three months is how Anderson doesn't aim high enough. If you look at the offers that have been going out lately, he's aiming high.

[Mike Irwin]

No excuse to not go after Payton Willis. He would've been a 3, 4-year player and now he's going to be that at a conference rival. Watch him turn into an all-SEC guard there.

If you have offered a player or players you think are better and you think you can land them, an "excuse" is not needed.

[MikePiazza]

If you have offered a player or players you think are better and you think you can land them, an "excuse" is not needed.

You should always offer players in your own backyard, especially with the amount of scholarships they'll have available for the 2016 class.

[WarPig88]

Good job, you have just defined what outliers look like.

For the most part, this style does not put players into the NBA with any realistic chance of a long career.  Never has, never will.

Those aren't deviations from the norm at all. There were more from our own program I didn't even mention.

You are just like so many others that look at star rankings as the end all be all. Proof is in the pudding that when it comes to identifying the 1 and dones, they are good at that but not very good after that at identifying who will emerge and who will disappear.

Scotty Thurman would have been a 3 star recruit. So would have Dwight Stewart, Roger Crawford, Al Dillard and the list goes on and on of guys who contributed big here but weren't highly rated.

[WarPig88]

You should always offer players in your own backyard, especially with the amount of scholarships they'll have available for the 2016 class.

No you shouldn't. There have been plenty of guys from here who were good enough to play elsewhere but not good enough to take the program to the level you would like it to be at.

I like the people who still whine about the Ole Miss kids during Nolan's days. Sure they beat us because we were their Super Bowl, but those guys only ever won ONE NCAA tournament game and made the tournament Three times while the kids we had here at the time also went to the tourney 3 out of 4 years and had a sweet 16 on their resume as well.

So take your pick. Do you want local kids and lower results or do you want who the staff believes will be better here and win more?

[hogsanity]

So take your pick. Do you want local kids and lower results or do you want who the staff believes will be better here and win more?

That only works if you actually get the better players. In the case of Willis, with all the open scholarships, he would have been a nice add. While he is not likely a NBA type player, he would have likely provided good solid play for 4 years, but I guess stability only matters when talking about the coach, not the players themselves.

[WarPig88]

That only works if you actually get the better players. In the case of Willis, with all the open scholarships, he would have been a nice add. While he is not likely a NBA type player, he would have likely provided good solid play for 4 years, but I guess stability only matters when talking about the coach, not the players themselves.

What part of we are on better players do you not understand? Oh yeah, the part where you hate the coach to the point of being irrational.

[ricepig]

That only works if you actually get the better players. In the case of Willis, with all the open scholarships, he would have been a nice add. While he is not likely a NBA type player, he would have likely provided good solid play for 4 years, but I guess stability only matters when talking about the coach, not the players themselves.

How do you know we won't sign better players?

[WarPig88]

Yea, yea, I get it.
Your agenda comes through loud and clear.
You use racial slurs directed at white people(and when called on it say, 'oh, well, black folk can be redneck too!) and then also pooh-pooh accomplishments by a white coach(boy, does he have it easier!)

And you still didn't explain, since basketball is at such a 'disadvantage', how Eddie and Nolan both made the NCAAs nine years in a row each.

It says here that SEC baseball is actually even more competitive than SEC basketball has been, in recent years. There have been more Top 25 baseball teams than Top 25 basketball teams in recent years.

It also says here that Eddie, Nolan, and yes, Van Horn do what they do because they were or are very good at their jobs. No excuses.

Is this post your proof of the existence of parallel universes? No way you could have come up with it while in this world.

[WarPig88]

How do you know we won't sign better players?

Because the facts state that 6 of our last 8 commits have been rated at 4 stars and higher.

In sanity world math states that if you have 6 openings in a class with MA as coach, given that 75% of the last 3 recruiting classes were fairly highly rated, that 6 multiplied by .75 gives you 1 and that represents the number of good recruits anyone can reasonably expect from this staff when given 6 slots to fill.

Sanity math theory has been peer reviewed and approved by Mizzouman.

[hogsanity]

What part of we are on better players do you not understand? Oh yeah, the part where you hate the coach to the point of being irrational.

Being on better players, and actually having them end up playing for you are two entirely different things.

How do you know we won't sign better players?

I don't know it, but neither does Mike. He passes up players who he could use to help build a program, and keeps swinging and missing on "better" players.  Seven, that is the number of signees over the last 3 classes. Of those 2 left for the pros, one transferred to ISU, and we have no idea what will become of Beard.

[majp51]

Because the facts state that 6 of our last 8 commits have been rated at 4 stars and higher.

Per SCout.com

Not a single player from our 2014 recruiting class was a 4 star.

We got 2 in 2015 (both 4 star)
0-4 in 2014
2 in 2013 (Portis and Kingsley)

That makes us 4-8 not 6-8

[MikePiazza]

Mike's recruiting classes since he's been here, I won't count 2011 because that was basically Pel's class. Rankings are from Rivals, which I trust the most.

2012

Anthlon Bell, 3***
Coty Clarke, 3*** JUCO
Michael Qualls, 3***
Dee Wagner, 3***
Jacorey Williams, 3***

2013

Moses Kingsley, 3***
Bobby Portis, 5*****

2014

Nick Babb, 3***
Anton Beard, 3***
Jabril Durham, no-star JUCO
Trey Thompson, 2**

2015

Ted Kapita, 4****
Jimmy Whitt, 4****

So one player unranked, one 2-star, 8 3-stars, two 4-stars and a 5-star. Not elite, but not bad at all. I think Mike's recruiting has been solid, and that's pretty much what you can say about his tenure through four years.

Let's see how things pan out in 2015-16 and then what he does with the 2016 class. That will be the true verdict.

[Jim Harris]

You mean like Malik Monk is?

No prep basketball player from Arkansas has ever been what Malik Monk is at this point. Not even Corliss, and some of the biggest names in basketball were willing to show serious paper to try to pull Corliss out of Arkansas. When Sidney Moncrief was a senior, Chris Bennett was the most highly recruited player in the state. But Sidney wasn't an "unknown." Neither were Delph and Brewer the previous season, though everyone knew Brewer would have to go to juco.

[majp51]

Do you even realize that we just had a lowly 3 star recruit sign an NBA contract with the Thunder?

If he makes the final roster call me, otherwise I can point to lots of 3 stars like Qualls that get a look in summer league.

Ever hear of Steph Curry?

Yes I have, last I checked he played at Davidson, not Arkansas..
I mean shoot if you want to pick someone who was not evaluated well in High School, why not at least stay in state and mention Scottie Pippen, who would have be a 2 Star, at best, had recruiting rankings existed to that degree back then.

Ever hear of Olu Famutimi? How about Steven Hill? How about Michael Sanchez? Ricky Scott? Devonta Abron? Hunter Mickelson?

These are all 4 star and plus studs you would be tickled with building the program around instead of guys like Qualls?

If you point is that recruiting is an inexact science, who would I be to argue with you about it. The number of 4 and 5 star failures are much much smaller than than the number of 3 star failures though, and the number of 2 star failures are greater still. You are currently applying the logic of Houston Nutt supporters in the early 2000's, not exactly a winning formula.

Also, our last 4 commits were 4 star players.

Our Last 2 commits were 4 stars. Babb, Thomspon, Beard, and Durham were all 3 star or less.

But even if true, we likely will need to fill at least 6 spots on next years roster. Given our current recruiting even the most optimistic viewpoint says we have to hope and find at least 3 Diamonds in the rough, because we aren't even competing for the one's that the "experts" say will be helpful.

[WarPig88]

If he makes the final roster call me, otherwise I can point to lots of 3 stars like Qualls that get a look in summer league.

Yes I have, last I checked he played at Davidson, not Arkansas..
I mean shoot if you want to pick someone who was not evaluated well in High School, why not at least stay in state and mention Scottie Pippen, who would have be a 2 Star, at best, had recruiting rankings existed to that degree back then.

If you point is that recruiting is an inexact science, who would I be to argue with you about it. The number of 4 and 5 star failures are much much smaller than than the number of 3 star failures though, and the number of 2 star failures are greater still. You are currently applying the logic of Houston Nutt supporters in the early 2000's, not exactly a winning formula.


Our Last 2 commits were 4 stars. Babb, Thomspon, Beard, and Durham were all 3 star or less.

But even if true, we likely will need to fill at least 6 spots on next years roster. Given our current recruiting even the most optimistic viewpoint says we have to hope and find at least 3 Diamonds in the rough, because we aren't even competing for the one's that the "experts" say will be helpful.

Whitt, Kapita, Macon, and Gafford are 4 stars.

LOL you do not even get the star rating system. There are way more 3 and 2s to be considered failures. That is why there are more. LOL

4 star guys are only about a 50% pay out around here. Unless you are signing the Ond and Done's, the rest are a crap shoot and you just have to hope the coaches evaluate well. That's the bottom line.

Experts said that MA recruited poorly at Mizzou. He coached the team with the most single season wins in school history and left them a team that Haith coached to a two seed.

LOL

[WarPig88]

No prep basketball player from Arkansas has ever been what Malik Monk is at this point. Not even Corliss, and some of the biggest names in basketball were willing to show serious paper to try to pull Corliss out of Arkansas. When Sidney Moncrief was a senior, Chris Bennett was the most highly recruited player in the state. But Sidney wasn't an "unknown." Neither were Delph and Brewer the previous season, though everyone knew Brewer would have to go to juco.

Corliss was the Gatorade Player of the Year. He was even more highly rated than Monk is.

No one is saying that you are either Monk or unknown, but claiming any of those guys as being big time RECRUITS isn't accurate. There is no doubting they were big time players.

Scotty Thurman is another excellent example of this.

[WarPig88]

Mike's recruiting classes since he's been here, I won't count 2011 because that was basically Pel's class. Rankings are from Rivals, which I trust the most.

2012

Anthlon Bell, 3***
Coty Clarke, 3*** JUCO
Michael Qualls, 3***
Dee Wagner, 3***
Jacorey Williams, 3***

2013

Moses Kingsley, 3***
Bobby Portis, 5*****

2014

Nick Babb, 3***
Anton Beard, 3***
Jabril Durham, no-star JUCO
Trey Thompson, 2**

2015

Ted Kapita, 4****
Jimmy Whitt, 4****

So one player unranked, one 2-star, 8 3-stars, two 4-stars and a 5-star. Not elite, but not bad at all. I think Mike's recruiting has been solid, and that's pretty much what you can say about his tenure through four years.

Let's see how things pan out in 2015-16 and then what he does with the 2016 class. That will be the true verdict.

No offense, but Rivals has been and still is considered the WORST site for basketball evals.

ESPN has ranked it this way 5 star-BP, 4 stars-Kingsley, Beard, Kapita, Whitt     3 stars-Babb, Thompson

I see now why you would cherry pick Rivals. LOL Rivals as the best basketball site says it all. LOL

[WarPig88]

Being on better players, and actually having them end up playing for you are two entirely different things.

I don't know it, but neither does Mike. He passes up players who he could use to help build a program, and keeps swinging and missing on "better" players.  Seven, that is the number of signees over the last 3 classes. Of those 2 left for the pros, one transferred to ISU, and we have no idea what will become of Beard.

So you would take lesser players as long as they commit earlier? How does that make sense? Oh yes, if you hate the coach then it does.

Also, you keep whining about 7 signees like it is significant. There are only 13 scholarships total on a team. You act like we haven't had enough players for a team or something.

That won't be the case this year unless 2 more get kicked off the team which could happen. But you act like Manny Watkins doesn't exist as a player or something which means that we have really had 8 kids over the last 3 seasons which is right about at where you would expect. Maybe one more but by no means a negligible number like you keep hysterically throwing around.

[JayBell]

Mike's recruiting classes since he's been here, I won't count 2011 because that was basically Pel's class. Rankings are from Rivals, which I trust the most.

2012

Anthlon Bell, 3***
Coty Clarke, 3*** JUCO
Michael Qualls, 3***
Dee Wagner, 3***
Jacorey Williams, 3***

2013

Moses Kingsley, 3***
Bobby Portis, 5*****

2014

Nick Babb, 3***
Anton Beard, 3***
Jabril Durham, no-star JUCO
Trey Thompson, 2**

2015

Ted Kapita, 4****
Jimmy Whitt, 4****

So one player unranked, one 2-star, 8 3-stars, two 4-stars and a 5-star. Not elite, but not bad at all. I think Mike's recruiting has been solid, and that's pretty much what you can say about his tenure through four years.

Let's see how things pan out in 2015-16 and then what he does with the 2016 class. That will be the true verdict.

That's like using recruiting rankings to defend Petrino's classes when the attrition rate was above 40%.

Recruiting success is shown over time, not by rankings.  Yes, he sent a couple of guys to the NBA, but recruiting is less than "not bad at all" when you're left with a grand total of 5 players from three recruiting classes after just two years (2013-2015).