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Pump Your Brakes

Started by Porked Tongue, November 05, 2017, 07:43:24 am

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bphi11ips

Quote from: MikePiazza on November 05, 2017, 10:18:21 pm
Other people who were there please feel free to chime in. The crowd was not milquetoast the entire game like this clown is trying to suggest.

Other people chimed in long ago. The crowd sucked and everyone said so then.  Over half the students left at halftime.  Some here said it was hot.  Poor kids.

Change your fake name to someone other than a well known politician from Little Rock.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

MikePiazza

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 05, 2017, 10:27:58 pm
Other people chimed in long ago. The crowd sucked and everyone said so then.  Over half the students left at halftime.  Some here said it was hot.  Poor kids.

Change your fake name to someone other than a well known politician from Little Rock.

No, you change your fake name!
Identity theft is not a joke, Jim. Millions of families suffer every year.

 

bphi11ips

Quote from: MikePiazza on November 05, 2017, 10:35:05 pm
No, you change your fake name!

Lol. You've been around a long time.  You should know I've posted my name and contact info here plenty of times. I used to think you were Mike Piazza.  Until now.

You may have been doing your job at TCU.  If so thanks.  That doesn't change the fact that the crowd was REALLY bad given the opponent and circumstances.  If I were Long I'd create a students only entrance and exit.  You'd have to scan your ID to leave.  If you leave before the game is over you forfeit your tickets for the rest of the season.  I think Saban got royally pissed not long ago about students leaving.  Halftime of TCU?  That was mindblowing and disgusting.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

WilsonHog

The stadium experience is not the same as it was when we beat Texas A&M 31-6 in 1975, or when we beat Texas 42-11 in 1981. What has changed? In no particular order...

(1) the perception of fans that we can compete with anyone, which I think started to fade when Jimmy Johnson beat us like a rented mule in 1987.

(2) Razorback football is no longer a venue-only experience like it was in the 1970s or 1980s. I've been to every home game this year and one on the road, but I could have saved myself about $5,500 and watched every single one of them on television.

(3) the message from the AD. The program is now branded for academics and good behavior, and the stadium experience is as much about advertising, entertainment, and recognition as it is about winning football. It's not just at RRS; when I was in Oxford two weeks ago, they had students racing across the end zone on inflatable toys between quarters. Can't we just play football?

Oklahawg

Quote from: WilsonHog on November 05, 2017, 11:17:48 pm
The stadium experience is not the same as it was when we beat Texas A&M 31-6 in 1975, or when we beat Texas 42-11 in 1981. What has changed? In no particular order...

(1) the perception of fans that we can compete with anyone, which I think started to fade when Jimmy Johnson beat us like a rented mule in 1987.

(2) Razorback football is no longer a venue-only experience like it was in the 1970s or 1980s. I've been to every home game this year and one on the road, but I could have saved myself about $5,500 and watched every single one of them on television.

(3) the message from the AD. The program is now branded for academics and good behavior, and the stadium experience is as much about advertising, entertainment, and recognition as it is about winning football. It's not just at RRS; when I was in Oxford two weeks ago, they had students racing across the end zone on inflatable toys between quarters. Can't we just play football?

It is simpler than that.

1. we went to UA games because you couldn't see the games otherwise. (You said that, but I'm restating it)
2. sports were local, not national. You listened to the radio as often as not, and that was limited by geography.
3. the game experience was about the game. Now, you have 2-1/2 minutes of TV timeouts every time you turn around (OU-OSU game lasted 4-1/2 hours). Advertisements and canned music vs the band and a program.
4. games have had to become a spectacle, an event containing many mini-events. So, we get a secondary sport playing the night before, a baseball scrimmage the morning of, tailgating, fan activities, a plethora of dining options inside the stadium, and all sort of additional "stuff."

If you only needed 43,000 to attend that is easy. But, you now need 72,000 and you better have a nice demand for additional tickets so that lame opponents still put butts in seats. Watching OU-OSU was a decent option for fans in my part of the world who could have used our two extra tickets - I asked, they declined, and I get it.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

East Clintwood

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 05, 2017, 10:02:36 pm

.   .   . 

Razorbacks fans are nothing like they used to be.  Period.


This is true and I don't see it ever changing unless the team is somehow able to win consistently for several years.  But it has to start with the players and the coaches, not the fans.

Up until the mid '80's the stadium seated 38,000 and until the mid '90's it was still under 43,000.  Many of the games weren't televised and the only was to see the game was to be there in person.

Razorback fans back then were born and raised as Hog fans and there weren't very many people moving into the state from elsewhere.  Chances are, if you were in the stadium, you were a rabid lifelong fan.

Things are very different now.  The stadium now seats over 70,000.  All of the games are televised.  The student body has grown but a big chunk of the new students are from out of state, mostly Texas.  And NWA has had a tremendous influx of people from other parts of the country.

Those folks weren't raised as Hog fans, they didn't attend the UofA and a lot of them haven't been here long enough to develop much of an attachment to the team.  But many of them do go to the games.  How many of the additional 30,000 seats have been filled by these newcomers I don't know but just from talking to people at the games and people just around town, I think it's a large part of the new capacity.

These people aren't rabid Hog fans, they're barely even casual fans.  Most attend because it's an event and it gives them something to do and an opportunity to see and be seen.  If the team is playing well and it's a good game and the rest of the crowd is really into it, then they will go with the flow and get into it too.  But they won't do it on their own because they're not really fans.

Many of them could be turned into fans but continued success on the field has to be there for that to happen.  That's on the team and the coaches.
Any dog can be a seeing eye dog if you don't care where you're going.

          Like  blows - Bring back Karma

bphi11ips

Wilson and Oklahawg - changes in technology have affected the way we consume entertainment.  That has been true at least since piano rolls were invented.

If your premise is that fans do not attend games as they once did because of advances in technology and that, once they get there they behave differently essentially for the same reason, then you would expect to see the same erosion in numbers and enthusiasm all over the SEC - but you don't - at least in winning programs.

Oklahawg may be on to something when he says it would be easy to get 43,000 to the stadium.  He is clearly taking about DWRRS.  That was the seating capacity in 1981.  Here are some numbers:

Arkansas population:

1981 - 2,286,000
2017 - 3,010,000

Little Rock MSA:

1980 - 500,000
2017 - 735,000

NWA - MSA

1980 - 200,000
2017 - 485,000

DWRRS capacity will be around 75,000 for the 2018 season.  That is a 74% increase in the number of seats since 1980.  Meanwhile, the population of Arkansas has grown by only 32%; Central Arkansas by 47%, and NWA by 143%. 

To make any sense of these numbers, you'd really have to know where butts in seats came from in 1980 vs. 2017.  You can bet that the athletic department and the Razorback Foundation have sliced and diced the demographic information available to them today as it relates to the location of season ticket holders as well as those who buy single game tickets where that demographic information is available to them.  Is detailed information available for 1980?  I don't know, but if it is, it should be dumped into a database if it hasn't been already.  If there are changes between the number of persons coming from one area or another, an attempt needs to be made as to the reason for the increase or decrease from that area.   

One thing we know - a population of 485,000 will not support a 75,000 seat stadium for 7 or 8 games a year.  It's clear that Arkansas must attract fans from outside NWA to fill DWRRS.  We know that fans come from outside the state to attend games.  You are one of those.  I suspect that most of these are alumni, but Muskogee is an example of one who is not.  However, Arkansas residents are the key and always have been when it comes to numbers of butts in seats.

We know we can fill DWRRS for Alabama and a few others except when we are in the middle of a bad run as we are now.  The question is how we get fans to travel for games like TCU.  Forget Coastal Carolina.  How do we fill the stadium with a rowdy crowd for games like TCU?  Not how do we sell tickets.  Forget the money.  How do we put 75,000 screaming butts in seats?

My guess is the simplest answer is that winning will cure everything.  In that respect nothing has changed in 50 years.   
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

FATHAWG08

Quote from: ricepig on November 05, 2017, 07:50:59 am
With 10 minutes left yesterday, I didn't think we'd win another one, stranger things have happened.
Impressive comeback
I love off season Football!!

Athog

Quote from: NuttinItUp on November 05, 2017, 08:01:02 am
I don't think it will happen, but if he wins 2 out of 3 and gets to 6 overall wins + a bowl appearance, then he will be safe.
.

Agree. That does not appear likely though.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 09:06:14 am
Wilson and Oklahawg - changes in technology have affected the way we consume entertainment.  That has been true at least since piano rolls were invented.

If your premise is that fans do not attend games as they once did because of advances in technology and that, once they get there they behave differently essentially for the same reason, then you would expect to see the same erosion in numbers and enthusiasm all over the SEC - but you don't - at least in winning programs.

Oklahawg may be on to something when he says it would be easy to get 43,000 to the stadium.  He is clearly taking about DWRRS.  That was the seating capacity in 1981.  Here are some numbers:

Arkansas population:

1981 - 2,286,000
2017 - 3,010,000

Little Rock MSA:

1980 - 500,000
2017 - 735,000

NWA - MSA

1980 - 200,000
2017 - 485,000

DWRRS capacity will be around 75,000 for the 2018 season.  That is a 74% increase in the number of seats since 1980.  Meanwhile, the population of Arkansas has grown by only 32%; Central Arkansas by 47%, and NWA by 143%. 

To make any sense of these numbers, you'd really have to know where butts in seats came from in 1980 vs. 2017.  You can bet that the athletic department and the Razorback Foundation have sliced and diced the demographic information available to them today as it relates to the location of season ticket holders as well as those who buy single game tickets where that demographic information is available to them.  Is detailed information available for 1980?  I don't know, but if it is, it should be dumped into a database if it hasn't been already.  If there are changes between the number of persons coming from one area or another, an attempt needs to be made as to the reason for the increase or decrease from that area.   

One thing we know - a population of 485,000 will not support a 75,000 seat stadium for 7 or 8 games a year.  It's clear that Arkansas must attract fans from outside NWA to fill DWRRS.  We know that fans come from outside the state to attend games.  You are one of those.  I suspect that most of these are alumni, but Muskogee is an example of one who is not.  However, Arkansas residents are the key and always have been when it comes to numbers of butts in seats.

We know we can fill DWRRS for Alabama and a few others except when we are in the middle of a bad run as we are now.  The question is how we get fans to travel for games like TCU.  Forget Coastal Carolina.  How do we fill the stadium with a rowdy crowd for games like TCU?  Not how do we sell tickets.  Forget the money.  How do we put 75,000 screaming butts in seats?

My guess is the simplest answer is that winning will cure everything.  In that respect nothing has changed in 50 years.   

It's not very complicated and was explained pretty well in the post above yours.   Back in the day the people leaving early were the blue hairs trying to beat the crush.  Now days it's a large segment across the board because as the post said 30-40 thousand of them are causal NWA and student attendees.  I was at the TCU game, it was a good crowd hence the complaints about concessions.  It was hot, the game was out of hand and people(notice I didn't say fans)left.  Jeff Long and the administration has determined the direction of the program, will it succeed or fail in the long run?  It's not looking good right now and winning would definitely cure a lot of ills but it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the long term.  As for NWA, it continues to grow and probably will sustain the program financially.  All these out of staters will have children and maybe those children will grow up Hog Fans, if we produce a winning program.

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 05, 2017, 08:30:21 pm
The fanbase is partly to blame.

prj knows this.  ricepig knows this.  Wilson knows this.  Hell - Lanny and HiM know this:

Arkansas beat number one USC 22-7 in 1974 because of 54,000 maniacs in WMS.  Arkansas beat number 2 and 10-0 Texas A&M 31-6 in 1975 because of 54,000 maniacs in WMS.  Arkansas beat number 1 Texas 42-11 in 1981 because of 43,000 screaming maniacs in Razorback Stadium.  Iowa State beat TCU last week because of 56,000 screaming maniacs in Jack Trice Stadium.  TCU beat Arkansas in DWRRS because about 65,000 came and went and sat on their hands and bitched about concessions and no internet and the kicker. 

This ain't the way it used to be, gentlemen.

BS, the team never gave the crowd anything to cheer about, every time they did something good, they would follow that with about 3 plays that sucked the air out. I was there, the crowd just needed something to excite them. In those other games you mentioned we had the upper hand, early, not the same as the TCU game.

bphi11ips

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 10:43:53 am
BS, the team never gave the crowd anything to cheer about, every time they did something good, they would follow that with about 3 plays that sucked the air out. I was there, the crowd just needed something to excite them. In those other games you mentioned we had the upper hand, early, not the same as the TCU game.

Not BS. You and Cinco are dead wrong.

Cinco - pray tell how the game was "out of hand" when TCU had third and long at mid-field with 3 minutes left in the game up 14-7. Over half the students left at halftime.

Rice - WTH are fans there for?  Were you there when the team entered the stadium?  Why do you think these athletes went to Arkansas?  Not to stroll across Razorback Road to a half-hearted Hog call by a few fans before a 2:30 CBS kickoff against a ranked intersectional opponent. No - they went to Arkansas for what they thought was going to be big time football. That was the second game of the season. The stadium should have been packed and the Hog call should have been deafening when the team ran out of the tunnel. I was down there when they did and it wasn't.

Nobody is faulting guys like Cinco and rice. They were there. But they can't defend the crowd itself.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

snoblind

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 11:06:26 am
Not BS. You and Cinco are dead wrong.

Cinco - pray tell how the game was “out of hand” when TCU had third and long at mid-field with 3 minutes left in the game up 14-7. Over half the students left at halftime.

Rice - WTH are fans there for?  Were you there when the team entered the stadium?  Why do you think these athletes went to Arkansas?  Not to stroll across Razorback Road to a half-hearted Hog call by a few fans before a 2:30 CBS kickoff against a ranked intersectional opponent. No - they went to Arkansas for what they thought was going to be big time football. That was the second game of the season. The stadium should have been packed and the Hog call should have been deafening when the team ran out of the tunnel. I was down there when they did and it wasn’t.

Nobody is faulting guys like Cinco and rice. They were there. But they can’t defend the crowd itself.

We had this argument earlier in the season IIRC,  but want to get this straight.  You are blaming the crowd/fans for the TCU loss?

I agree with Rice and Cinco.  And for the record, I was there.  Stood up to leave with less than a minute to go.  I know a little bit about Fayetteville crowds.  Went to my first game in 1964.  It was opening game in 1987 before I missed a game in Fayetteville.

 

Captain Hogthrob

I hope they win out in convincing fashion .
Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in; forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day; begin it well and serenely and with too high a spirit to be encumbered with your old nonsense.
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 11:06:26 am
Not BS. You and Cinco are dead wrong.

Cinco - pray tell how the game was "out of hand" when TCU had third and long at mid-field with 3 minutes left in the game up 14-7. Over half the students left at halftime.

Rice - WTH are fans there for?  Were you there when the team entered the stadium?  Why do you think these athletes went to Arkansas?  Not to stroll across Razorback Road to a half-hearted Hog call by a few fans before a 2:30 CBS kickoff against a ranked intersectional opponent. No - they went to Arkansas for what they thought was going to be big time football. That was the second game of the season. The stadium should have been packed and the Hog call should have been deafening when the team ran out of the tunnel. I was down there when they did and it wasn't.

Nobody is faulting guys like Cinco and rice. They were there. But they can't defend the crowd itself.

Maybe you need to get your hearing checked, if I remember correctly, we did 3 in about a 5 minute time span, my 15yr old said, we've just done two?? My seats are close to the student section, they were into the game, and the majority had been there 1 1/2 - 2 hours before kickoff. On top of that, anything on the east side was close to melting temperature by then. The change in the Hog Walk, made having a good walk due to this year's construction, the tailgate north of lot 44 seemed to still be pretty strong where we were. As to the crowd, it was listed as a sellout, not much more than you can ask for.

RexMentor

The fans are not the problem. Right now, the fans are a symptom. It's the fever that shows the body is fighting an infection. If the crowd is lacking, demonstrably ill tempered and not engaged, ready to bolt for the exits in the third quarter, then the problem should be obvious. And it's not the fans. People may not be entirely the same as 35 years ago, but one thing hasn't changed. They will cheer a winner or a team that looks like it wants to win.

Oklahawg

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 09:06:14 am
Wilson and Oklahawg - changes in technology have affected the way we consume entertainment.  That has been true at least since piano rolls were invented.

If your premise is that fans do not attend games as they once did because of advances in technology and that, once they get there they behave differently essentially for the same reason, then you would expect to see the same erosion in numbers and enthusiasm all over the SEC - but you don't - at least in winning programs.

Oklahawg may be on to something when he says it would be easy to get 43,000 to the stadium.  He is clearly taking about DWRRS.  That was the seating capacity in 1981.  Here are some numbers:

Arkansas population:

1981 - 2,286,000
2017 - 3,010,000

Little Rock MSA:

1980 - 500,000
2017 - 735,000

NWA - MSA

1980 - 200,000
2017 - 485,000

DWRRS capacity will be around 75,000 for the 2018 season.  That is a 74% increase in the number of seats since 1980.  Meanwhile, the population of Arkansas has grown by only 32%; Central Arkansas by 47%, and NWA by 143%. 

To make any sense of these numbers, you'd really have to know where butts in seats came from in 1980 vs. 2017.  You can bet that the athletic department and the Razorback Foundation have sliced and diced the demographic information available to them today as it relates to the location of season ticket holders as well as those who buy single game tickets where that demographic information is available to them.  Is detailed information available for 1980?  I don't know, but if it is, it should be dumped into a database if it hasn't been already.  If there are changes between the number of persons coming from one area or another, an attempt needs to be made as to the reason for the increase or decrease from that area.   

One thing we know - a population of 485,000 will not support a 75,000 seat stadium for 7 or 8 games a year.  It's clear that Arkansas must attract fans from outside NWA to fill DWRRS.  We know that fans come from outside the state to attend games.  You are one of those.  I suspect that most of these are alumni, but Muskogee is an example of one who is not.  However, Arkansas residents are the key and always have been when it comes to numbers of butts in seats.

We know we can fill DWRRS for Alabama and a few others except when we are in the middle of a bad run as we are now.  The question is how we get fans to travel for games like TCU.  Forget Coastal Carolina.  How do we fill the stadium with a rowdy crowd for games like TCU?  Not how do we sell tickets.  Forget the money.  How do we put 75,000 screaming butts in seats?

My guess is the simplest answer is that winning will cure everything.  In that respect nothing has changed in 50 years.   

Good post, my friend (as always).
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

bphi11ips

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 01:42:48 pm
Maybe you need to get your hearing checked, if I remember correctly, we did 3 in about a 5 minute time span, my 15yr old said, we've just done two?? My seats are close to the student section, they were into the game, and the majority had been there 1 1/2 - 2 hours before kickoff. On top of that, anything on the east side was close to melting temperature by then. The change in the Hog Walk, made having a good walk due to this year's construction, the tailgate north of lot 44 seemed to still be pretty strong where we were. As to the crowd, it was listed as a sellout, not much more than you can ask for.

Listed as a sellout?  You're a broken record. The stadium was not close to full at any point. If you think that was the crowd Arkansas needed for TCU then you are easily impressed.

I'll admit there were a lot of students in the student section early. As you know, the student section is first come first served. So there's that. They were louder before the buzz wore off.  And the sun was hot. Poor kids. The problem pre-game was not the students but the fans in general and a ton of late arrivals. The problem with the students was that half of them left at halftime. If you say they didn't you weren't paying attention to say the least. I'll say this one more time for emphasis - HALF OF OUR STUDENTS LEFT AT HALFTIME OF THE TCU GAME WHEN WE WERE BEHIND 14-7!!!

If that doesn't bother you it should.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

HF#1

The notion that he could finish 6-6 and be retained makes me ill. It's year 5. He has had zero measurable success in 5 years and Long could have justified firing him at the end of last season. Take his record, apply it to any other SEC program short of Vandy/Kentucky, and he would have been fired 2 years ago.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 04:41:02 pm
Listed as a sellout?  You're a broken record. The stadium was not close to full at any point. If you think that was the crowd Arkansas needed for TCU then you are easily impressed.

I'll admit there were a lot of students in the student section early. As you know, the student section is first come first served. So there's that. They were louder before the buzz wore off.  And the sun was hot. Poor kids. The problem pre-game was not the students but the fans in general and a ton of late arrivals. The problem with the students was that half of them left at halftime. If you say they didn't you weren't paying attention to say the least. I'll say this one more time for emphasis - HALF OF OUR STUDENTS LEFT AT HALFTIME OF THE TCU GAME WHEN WE WERE BEHIND 14-7!!!

If that doesn't bother you it should.


Truthfully, you want more people in the stands, then hire a new coach, because you aren't going to get more than a sellout of tickets right now. As to the students, I guess you haven't been to a game in Fayetteville in years, they leave at halftime most games. This isn't 1974, 1976, or 1981, today's students don't set in the sun, sorry to bust your bubble.

bphi11ips

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 04:55:54 pm

Truthfully, you want more people in the stands, then hire a new coach, because you aren't going to get more than a sellout of tickets right now. As to the students, I guess you haven't been to a game in Fayetteville in years, they leave at halftime most games. This isn't 1974, 1976, or 1981, today's students don't set in the sun, sorry to bust your bubble.

Well that sucks.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hassettsportsman

The new age Hog fans have too many distractions with their extra organ(electronic devices).  Clearly, the glamour sports aren't keeping their full attention.  Social media is more important than sporting events.  It's not a criticism it's an observation.  Look at the NFL and Nascar.....advertisers are baling. 

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 04:58:42 pm
Well that sucks.

If I remember correctly from the thread back during that game, those in the upper deck aren't allowed to move down to the lower section, they have different colored wrist bands. They sell 10,000 student passes, I don't know if they actually allow that many in or not. The southern 3 sections of the upper deck are for the students, around 1500-1800 seats??

It's pretty simple, winning keeps them interested, as it does to most of our fans.

bphi11ips

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 05:06:09 pm
If I remember correctly from the thread back during that game, those in the upper deck aren't allowed to move down to the lower section, they have different colored wrist bands. They sell 10,000 student passes, I don't know if they actually allow that many in or not. The southern 3 sections of the upper deck are for the students, around 1500-1800 seats??

It's pretty simple, winning keeps them interested, as it does to most of our fans.

Now wait a minute.  Didn't you just say the students leave every game at halftime and have for years?  Or did you just mean every game Arkansas is not leading at halftime? 

Was Arkansas losing going in to TCU?  I had a little dust up here the other day with someone who criticized my prediction in June that Arkansas could go anywhere from 3-9 to 10-2 this year.  The point when I said that was that TCU was a pivotal game, as was A&M and South Carolina.  If TCU went south and a snowball started rolling downhill, my concern was that what would happen is exactly what has happened, and that by the time we get back home with two winnable games left to end the season all bets would be off because the atmosphere for the team would be toxic.  So I'll ask you again - were we in the middle of a losing season when the students left the game against TCU?  No.  Was that a big game?  You bet it was.  One we were in down to the wire.

So what would they do at Alabama if the students left at halftime?  Here's what they have done:

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/alabama-coach-nick-saban-voices-displeasure-with-fans-leaving-early-102413

Alabama suspended the block-seating privileges of 20 student organizations on Friday, meaning any student can sit anywhere in the student section for today's game against Tennessee.

The school lists early departures and excessive tardiness as "unacceptable behavior" under its block-seating guidelines. Another violation could result in a suspension for the rest of the season.


Here's what Saban had to say about fans leaving early:

"I've talked about players playing for 60 minutes in the game and competing for 60 minutes in the game," Saban told Al.com. "And, in some kind of way, everybody that choses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game."

Saban ratcheted it up this year:

https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Bolt/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-Football-Nick-Saban-urges-fans-to-stay-comm-108172205

"It's not about who we're playing, aight, it's about how we play. It's the kind of atmosphere that you create for the other team to play in and everybody says they hate to come to play at Alabama, not because of who they're playing but the atmosphere that we create, the noise that we create, how hard it is to play there. And I think that's what we should do every time we have a game here, and especially an SEC game.

"And we ask our players, aight, to play for 60 minutes in the game, but yet I'm looking in the stands -- now this never used to be this way -- and the place is half empty by the time we get to the fourth quarter. So, why should the players play for 60 minutes if you're not willing to stay committed to be a part of the team.

"You all want to be a part of the team when we win. Why don't you stay committed for 60 minutes and stay there and support the players who are doing a hell of a lot more and working a lot harder to try to satisfy you and what you want than anything that you're doing by staying at the game for a whole game?


Preach it, brotha.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

 

HawgPilot

Quote from: hassettsportsman on November 06, 2017, 05:00:38 pm
The new age Hog fans have too many distractions with their extra organ(electronic devices).  Clearly, the glamour sports aren't keeping their full attention.  Social media is more important than sporting events.  It's not a criticism it's an observation.  Look at the NFL and Nascar.....advertisers are baling. 

Yep.  Games have simply become a social event for too many fans.  I've seen this over the past 5-6 years.

grayhawg

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 04:55:54 pm

Truthfully, you want more people in the stands, then hire a new coach, because you aren't going to get more than a sellout of tickets right now. As to the students, I guess you haven't been to a game in Fayetteville in years, they leave at halftime most games. This isn't 1974, 1976, or 1981, today's students don't set in the sun, sorry to bust your bubble.
They do at other SEC schools, and some actually stand.

ricepig

Quote from: grayhawg on November 06, 2017, 05:25:38 pm
They do at other SEC schools, and some actually stand.

And ours actually stand, I can see them from my seats, but as has been mentioned, they tend to leave after halftime.

bphi11ips

Quote from: HawgPilot on November 06, 2017, 05:23:31 pm
Yep.  Games have simply become a social event for too many fans.  I've seen this over the past 5-6 years.

Seriously, IMG gets it and is reportedly spending a ton to remedy the bandwidth problem in the stadium. It was so bad I could not send a text during the TCU game.  And the only social media I use at all is Hogville.  And I don't look at Hogville during games, generally.  Don't watch and post is a good way to keep from saying something stupid here.  But I was a bit antsy during the game simply because I couldn't use my phone at all.

If I was anxious by halftime because of no internet access, imagine the withdrawals the students were going through.  I don't give a rip about whether they were hot or going through withdrawals - they should have stayed - but I do think the ability to use their smart phones during the games in 2018, assuming they will be able to next year, will go a long way towards keeping them in their seats.   
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 05:21:56 pm
Now wait a minute.  Didn't you just say the students leave every game at halftime and have for years?  Or did you just mean every game Arkansas is not leading at halftime? 

Was Arkansas losing going in to TCU?  I had a little dust up here the other day with someone who criticized my prediction in June that Arkansas could go anywhere from 3-9 to 10-2 this year.  The point when I said that was that TCU was a pivotal game, as was A&M and South Carolina.  If TCU went south and a snowball started rolling downhill, my concern was that what would happen is exactly what has happened, and that by the time we get back home with two winnable games left to end the season all bets would be off because the atmosphere for the team would be toxic.  So I'll ask you again - were we in the middle of a losing season when the students left the game against TCU?  No.  Was that a big game?  You bet it was.  One we were in down to the wire.

So what would they do at Alabama if the students left at halftime?  Here's what they have done:

https://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/alabama-coach-nick-saban-voices-displeasure-with-fans-leaving-early-102413

Alabama suspended the block-seating privileges of 20 student organizations on Friday, meaning any student can sit anywhere in the student section for today's game against Tennessee.

The school lists early departures and excessive tardiness as "unacceptable behavior" under its block-seating guidelines. Another violation could result in a suspension for the rest of the season.


Here's what Saban had to say about fans leaving early:

"I've talked about players playing for 60 minutes in the game and competing for 60 minutes in the game," Saban told Al.com. "And, in some kind of way, everybody that choses to go to the game should stay there and support the team for the game."

Saban ratcheted it up this year:

https://247sports.com/college/alabama/Bolt/Alabama-Crimson-Tide-Football-Nick-Saban-urges-fans-to-stay-comm-108172205

"It's not about who we're playing, aight, it's about how we play. It's the kind of atmosphere that you create for the other team to play in and everybody says they hate to come to play at Alabama, not because of who they're playing but the atmosphere that we create, the noise that we create, how hard it is to play there. And I think that's what we should do every time we have a game here, and especially an SEC game.

"And we ask our players, aight, to play for 60 minutes in the game, but yet I'm looking in the stands -- now this never used to be this way -- and the place is half empty by the time we get to the fourth quarter. So, why should the players play for 60 minutes if you're not willing to stay committed to be a part of the team.

"You all want to be a part of the team when we win. Why don't you stay committed for 60 minutes and stay there and support the players who are doing a hell of a lot more and working a lot harder to try to satisfy you and what you want than anything that you're doing by staying at the game for a whole game?


Preach it, brotha.


Comparing anything to Alabama is useless, and you know it. As to when they leave, go to every home game and find out for yourself, lol. Sometimes they leave at halftime, sometimes the leave when it gets hot, sometimes when it's cold, and sometimes they stay!

Albert Einswine

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 05, 2017, 12:20:45 pm
If I were on that team and had given my life to this point to football, I'd want to shove it in the Razorbacks' fans face to show them how wrong they've been.

Wrong about what exactly? They're 4-5 and have beaten nobody of substance.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

bphi11ips

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 05:34:31 pm

Comparing anything to Alabama is useless, and you know it. As to when they leave, go to every home game and find out for yourself, lol. Sometimes they leave at halftime, sometimes the leave when it gets hot, sometimes when it's cold, and sometimes they stay!

Wow.  That all you got?  I guess you disagree with Saban on this.

I wonder what Nolan would have done if half the students left Barnhill at halftime.  Jim Robken would have worn their asses out.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Quote from: Albert Einswine on November 06, 2017, 05:39:48 pm
Wrong about what exactly? They're 4-5 and have beaten nobody of substance.

Not like you to be on the trash the players bandwagon, Al.

Was TCU a team of substance?  Did the boos I heard before that game was decided help?  Is Mississippi State a team of substance? 

With fans like ours we might as well play all our games on the road.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hoglady

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 05, 2017, 08:30:21 pm
The fanbase is partly to blame.

prj knows this.  ricepig knows this.  Wilson knows this.  Hell - Lanny and HiM know this:

Arkansas beat number one USC 22-7 in 1974 because of 54,000 maniacs in WMS.  Arkansas beat number 2 and 10-0 Texas A&M 31-6 in 1975 because of 54,000 maniacs in WMS.  Arkansas beat number 1 Texas 42-11 in 1981 because of 43,000 screaming maniacs in Razorback Stadium.  Iowa State beat TCU last week because of 56,000 screaming maniacs in Jack Trice Stadium.  TCU beat Arkansas in DWRRS because about 65,000 came and went and sat on their hands and bitched about concessions and no internet and the kicker. 

This ain't the way it used to be, gentlemen.

Thanks for bringing back my best memories - that USC game at WMS in 1974 was my absolute favorite Hog game ever. The atmosphere was just unbelievable.
Inside every "older" person is a younger person wondering what the hell happened?

"Compassion for animals is intimately associated with goodness of character, and it may be confidently asserted that he who is cruel to animals cannot be a good man."
― Arthur Schopenhauer, The Basis of Morality

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 05:40:39 pm
Wow.  That all you got?  I guess you disagree with Saban on this.

I wonder what Nolan would have done if half the students left Barnhill at halftime.  Jim Robken would have worn their asses out.

All I got?? Now you're comparing an indoor sport with a lot less break in the action, especially during that time with few televised games, you need to have a  kid in college these days, none of that is comparable to today. As to Saban, he didn't say they couldn't leave, he wanted them to lose their spots, Arkansas is first come first serve, not the same. 

Albert Einswine

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 05:45:33 pm
Not like you to be on the trash the players bandwagon, Al.

Was TCU a team of substance?  Did the boos I heard before that game was decided help?  Is Mississippi State a team of substance? 

With fans like ours we might as well play all our games on the road.


How do you figure I'm trashing the players? The team has beaten exactly nobody. That's a fact. They cannot rise above their piss poor leadership.
"Funny thing, I become a hell of a good fisherman when the trout decide to commit suicide." ~ John D. Voelker

PonderinHog

The team has to provide the spark.  If and when they do, the fans will become the fire.  The problem is that the blowouts have sucked all the oxygen out of the stadium.

bphi11ips

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 05:52:39 pm
All I got?? Now you're comparing an indoor sport with a lot less break in the action, especially during that time with few televised games, you need to have a  kid in college these days, none of that is comparable to today. As to Saban, he didn't say they couldn't leave, he wanted them to lose their spots, Arkansas is first come first serve, not the same. 

Ah. The old things have changed fallback.

Let me ask you something - do you agree with Saban or not?  It is pretty much hammer meet nail. Should students stay for the whole game or not?
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

bphi11ips

Quote from: hoglady on November 06, 2017, 05:50:39 pm
Thanks for bringing back my best memories - that USC game at WMS in 1974 was my absolute favorite Hog game ever. The atmosphere was just unbelievable.

I've only been to two like it - A&M the next year and LSU in 2006. Not a single person ever sat down at any one of those games. We beat LSU in 2010, but it wasn't he same from start to finish.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

HeathWimp

Quote from: snoblind on November 06, 2017, 11:17:02 am
We had this argument earlier in the season IIRC,  but want to get this straight.  You are blaming the crowd/fans for the TCU loss?

I agree with Rice and Cinco.  And for the record, I was there.  Stood up to leave with less than a minute to go.  I know a little bit about Fayetteville crowds.  Went to my first game in 1964.  It was opening game in 1987 before I missed a game in Fayetteville.

Yep. It's the fan's fault.  I bet guys like Michael E. Davis and Integrityhog  would also blame the fans.
11/19/2023:  Keeping my original semi-prophetic, apocalyptic signature below.  We continue to regret passing on Norvell, who is in the running for the Playoffs.  We continue regret passing on Kiffin, who is eyeing a New Years 6 game.  Heck, we regret passing on Drinkwitz (he may be a dork, but he will have his team in a New Years 6 game after they truck us on Black Friday).

Meanwhile, Sam is drinking Pittman, wondering if he has the leverage to re-hire Enos, Sexton is doing the triple Lindy into his Olympic-size pool full of cash, and thousands of hog fans are planning to dress up as empty seats for next year's Halloween game.

11/25/2018:  My original "Chad Morris" signature is below.  I'm modifying my view as follows:  We will continue to regret passing on Norvell and Kiffin.   After 3 years, when Morris is 10-26, we are going to be saying "What were we thinking?  Even Bert was better than this!"

bphi11ips

Quote from: snoblind on November 06, 2017, 11:17:02 am
We had this argument earlier in the season IIRC,  but want to get this straight.  You are blaming the crowd/fans for the TCU loss?

I agree with Rice and Cinco.  And for the record, I was there.  Stood up to leave with less than a minute to go.  I know a little bit about Fayetteville crowds.  Went to my first game in 1964.  It was opening game in 1987 before I missed a game in Fayetteville.

Just noticed this. Am I blaming the loss on the crowd?  No.  Am I suggesting the crowd was a factor in the loss?  Yes.  Would I go so far as to say we probably would have won had the crowd been similar to the 2004 Texas crowd?  Yes.  I assume you were there for that game.

Does anyone here seriously think crowds don't matter in college football?
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 06:06:52 pm
Ah. The old things have changed fallback.

Let me ask you something - do you agree with Saban or not?  It is pretty much hammer meet nail. Should students stay for the whole game or not?

Students are like any fans, they've paid for their ticket, so they can exercise any option they choose. Do I wish they'd stay, sure, I also wish for a cold front to push down some more ducks before the 18th...

grayhawg

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 07:19:15 pm
Students are like any fans, they've paid for their ticket, so they can exercise any option they choose. Do I wish they'd stay, sure, I also wish for a cold front to push down some more ducks before the 18th...
Coming next week.

bphi11ips

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 07:19:15 pm
Students are like any fans, they've paid for their ticket, so they can exercise any option they choose. Do I wish they'd stay, sure, I also wish for a cold front to push down some more ducks before the 18th...

Do you know what a ticket is in a legal sense?  It is a license.  The fan is the licensee.  If the licensor, in this case the party with the right to sell tickets to Razorbacks games, wished to require students to stand on their heads for the entire game as a condition to the license, it could do so. 

Do you agree with Saban or not?  This isn't a trick question.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 07:34:02 pm
Do you know what a ticket is in a legal sense?  It is a license.  The fan is the licensee.  If the licensor, in this case the party with the right to sell tickets to Razorbacks games, wished to require students to stand on their heads for the entire game as a condition to the license, it could do so. 

Do you agree with Saban or not?  This isn't a trick question.

Do you know what reality is, try to find some. How many tickets would they sell with that stipulation? No, I do not think students should be forced to stay for the whole game, you couldn't surmise that from my previous answers. They are no different than any other ticket holder, This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia.

bphi11ips

Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 07:40:35 pm
Do you know what reality is, try to find some. How many tickets would they sell with that stipulation? No, I do not think students should be forced to stay for the whole game, you couldn't surmise that from my previous answers. They are no different than any other ticket holder, This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia.

Never knew Tuscaloosa was in Russia.  But I do know that tickets in Russia are also treated as licenses.  You accumulate interesting little tidbits like that when you teach entertainment law.

I love taking depositions with guys like you, especially when the guy is a party.  I'll ask the same question over and over until I get an answer and smile to myself knowing the more he avoids the question the more he's paying his lawyer to sit there.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

PorkSoda

Quote from: Porked Tongue on November 05, 2017, 07:45:47 am
A little bit of clarity, I think if he loses 2 of 3 he goes on his own.  Willingly.

Said it before and I stick with that now.
why in the world would he go on his own?  that is a multi million dollar mistake.
"I became insane, with long intervals of horrible sanity." ― Edgar Allan Poe
"If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet. Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real." – Niels Bohr
"A mind stretched to a new idea, never returns to its original dimensions" ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
Quote from: PonderinHog on August 07, 2023, 06:37:15 pmYeah, we're all here, but we ain't all there.

ricepig

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 06, 2017, 08:04:31 pm
Never knew Tuscaloosa was in Russia.  But I do know that tickets in Russia are also treated as licenses.  You accumulate interesting little tidbits like that when you teach entertainment law.

I love taking depositions with guys like you, especially when the guy is a party.  I'll ask the same question over and over until I get an answer and smile to myself knowing the more he avoids the question the more he's paying his lawyer to sit there.
Lawyers on a retainer, I had to get some use out of him anyway. Now how many of these licenses are you going to be able to sell if you don't allow the holders of such, the convenience to leave when they wish?

I guess you didn't watch Caddyshack.....

Oklahawg

We've had a couple of close Bama games at RRS in the past decade that were pretty jacked up the entire time.

Games like the 74 USC game, 81 UT, 87A&M, etc, were done in 2-1/2 hours, or close to it. Now, four hours of DVR time barely gets the entire Coastal Carolina game. OU-OSU went 4-1/2 hours. Hard to have a crowd ramped up through the extra hour of non-action. Yes, some crowds do!

Stadium atmosphere, student body attendance, etc, are all factors, but the performance of the team is the #1 factor, and the others are distant in the rear view mirror.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

thebignasty

November 06, 2017, 08:34:50 pm #148 Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 09:13:24 pm by thebignasty
 I'm a younger guy, 2010 Bama and 99 Tennessee were two of the best atmospheres I've seen at RRS.

2010 Bama is proof that with the right momentum,  RRS can be as good as any place in the country.
Quote from: IronHog on March 22, 2016, 02:08:54 pm
They shoot family in Bama
But they win
Quote from: nuttless hog on January 13, 2021, 04:03:02 pm
take me almost all day to get it up to ride it 5 minutes

bphi11ips

November 06, 2017, 08:39:04 pm #149 Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 08:51:59 pm by bphi11ips
Quote from: ricepig on November 06, 2017, 08:11:26 pm

Lawyers on a retainer, I had to get some use out of him anyway. Now how many of these licenses are you going to be able to sell if you don't allow the holders of such, the convenience to leave when they wish?

I guess you didn't watch Caddyshack.....

You might want to check your engagement letter on that retainer thing.  Retainers are nice unless you forget to exclude litigation.  Most lawyers I know aren't that stupid, but maybe yours is.

If you're Alabama I guess you can require students to stay or revoke privileges.

Probably haven't watched Caddyshack in more than six months.  Been a busy year.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.