UA v A State article on national website

[Stu]

Nebraska State?  Where is that?

Heh. Precisely my point.

[bythelake]

People that are so vehemently advocating a hog vs wolf game, please list orderly and with some critical thought the following:

1. Benefits for the razorbacks. 

2.  Benefits for the wolves.

Notes.  1.  Answers can not reflect emotional, feel good reasons.  Just related to each school financially and concrete based thinking.

[Flrazrback]

The biggest thing would be the chance of losing some financial backing. ASU has thier donors and we have ours currently. It would cost is a spot on the schedule where we could play an opponent at home which would generate more revenue. I'm in favor of keeping the current relationship, and I don't have anything against the Red Wolves.

[Sivad]

please list orderly and with some critical thought the following:

1. Benefits for the razorbacks. 

Absolutely NONE -0-.

[PossumFan]

Absolutely NONE -0-.

Benefits for Hogs: Same ones they get by playing UL-Monroe.

[hog of steele]

Benefits for Hogs: Same ones they get by playing UL-Monroe.

So why not play la m? Same benefit, cheaper game.

[PossumFan]

So why not play la m? Same benefit, cheaper game.

You sue about that? FWIW, I don't really care .... I just think the arguments trotted out by the opponents are absurd.

[hog of steele]

You sue about that? FWIW, I don't really care .... I just think the arguments trotted out by the opponents are absurd.

I am sure. A neutral game in LR is not a home game. If we have to give up a home game to play a state, we lose money.

[twistitup]

....and we aren't playing Oklahoma Tech either

[PossumFan]

I am sure. A neutral game in LR is not a home game. If we have to give up a home game to play a state, we lose money.

Who said it has to be in LR? You think ASU wouldn't agree to a game in Fayetteville?

[(notOM)Rebel123]

Who said it has to be in LR? You think ASU wouldn't agree to a game in Fayetteville?

For a year or two. Then they would insist the game be in WMS.
Then split the tickets. Then a home-and-home. Ever heard of the camel's nose under the tent?
http://camelphotos.com/tales_nose.html

[j-mann]

Who said it has to be in LR? You think ASU wouldn't agree to a game in Fayetteville?

their AD only wants a home and home   

[hog of steele]

Who said it has to be in LR? You think ASU wouldn't agree to a game in Fayetteville?

They said it. They want to play on even terms. 

It's a bad deal for the Razorbacks. No more benefit than playing LA-m and it is more expensive. So no upside.

[LZH]

It will happen. Give it five to ten years when the GOBN are out of the picture and we'll see it...probably in RRS.

[Hawghiggs]

 It's funny that the  UofA has to have a " benefit" or they won't play.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

....and we aren't playing Oklahoma Tech either

Well that's really too bad. That would be a great turnpike series with a team that would be a quality OOC match-up for us. Plus, we already have a history with Oklahoma State.

[Inhogswetrust]

It will happen. Give it five to ten years when the GOBN are out of the picture and we'll see it...probably in RRS.

As members of network die they are replaced with new members that usually say, do and believe the same things or they wouldn't have become members when younger.

[swineology]

This topic is gettin national play

http://collegefootballnews.com/2018/01/arkansas-razorbacks-arkansas-state-red-wolves-football-spring-game-sun-belt_heat

Make this a permanent rival game at the war dump

[oldhawg]

It's funny that the  UofA has to have a " benefit" or they won't play.

And you don't think that Arkansas State is looking at the "benefits" of playing the University of Arkansas?

[hogginbama]

They don't HAVE to do anything they don't want to. It was a suggestion.

Nice job of ignoring the fact that ASU would be giving up a home game too.

Fan total at this one game for A-State would probably surpass their yearly total for games played in Jonesboro.

[STLhawg]

...but from the Hogs perspective, there isn't one compelling reason to play the game.  The Hogs have absolutely no incentive to play the game. They have absolutely nothing to gain by playing them. 

+1,000,000

[hoghiker]

I'm sure there are a few Hog fans that want to play Astate but I've never talk to one and I'm a UA grad and go to several games every year. When I went to school in Fayetteville, Astate was never talked about. No one cared about Astate one way or another. I had friends from high school that went to Jonesboro and I remember thinking 'why would you do that to yourself'. I finally settled on low self esteem.

[hogsanity]

I'm sure there are a few Hog fans that want to play Astate but I've never talk to one and I'm a UA grad and go to several games every year. When I went to school in Fayetteville, Astate was never talked about. No one cared about Astate one way or another. I had friends from high school that went to Jonesboro and I remember thinking 'why would you do that to yourself'. I finally settled on low self esteem.

I want to play A-state PROVIDED these are the terms: Game is in FAY. ASU gets the standard rent a win contract/ticket allotment. It is the LAST OOC game for both teams that season. If the Hogs win then ASU has to immediately petition the NCAA to move back to fcs level.

[jethro]

I don't think the NCAA is going to allow many spring games to be off campus anyway.  We got waiver because of construction.  Kind of a one time deal.  If we could have a spring game each year that did not interfere with the campus activity, it could be a scrimmage if allowed at that time by NCAA or a split scrimmage with UA playing a certain number of snaps and ASU playing a certain number of snaps.  so both teams get central Arkansas coverage.

I am not an advocate of holding one's breath til any of those things happen, though.

[STLhawg]

If the Hogs win then ASU has to immediately petition the NCAA to move back to fcs level.

I know that really isn't feasible, but if it were that would level the playing field for both teams when it comes to their risk of losing. 

Right now there is very little risk if ASU were to loose and a huge upside if they were to win.  For the Razorbacks it's just the opposite; they have very little upside to winning but a huge downside if they lose.  Heck, if you look at potential revenue (and know ASU wants it home&home) then there are actually substantial negatives even if the Razorbacks won every time!  Yet some people don't get it and keep clamoring for it!

[Hawghiggs]

And you don't think that Arkansas State is looking at the "benefits" of playing the University of Arkansas?

Who cares what Astate gets out of it? It won't matter. The UofA can't claim to be the biggest show in the state and all the while be chickenshirt to play anyone else.

[LZH]

As members of network die they are replaced with new members that usually say, do and believe the same things or they wouldn't have become members when younger.

Fair point...and probably more right than not.

I wouldn't have any problem with UofA vs ASU, until we lost that is. I would certainly watch it.

[oldhawg]

Who cares what Astate gets out of it? It won't matter. The UofA can't claim to be the biggest show in the state and all the while be chickenshirt to play anyone else.

Arkansas State could help itself and its quest to be top dog in Arkansas by petitioning a conference like the Big Twelve for membership.  The Big Twelve needs to expand to twelve teams instead of ten, and the Red Wolves could quickly gain more credibility by membership there instead of the Sun Belt.  Success in the Big Twelve would then throw the onus of in-state competition onto the Razorbacks rather than the Red Wolves.

Personally I don't care whether they play or not.  It's just a football game.  I just tire of seeing grown men grovel and piss and moan about it (both sides).  Frankly I think the numbers of people that adamantly want them to play, and the number of people that adamantly don't want them to play, are in a small minority that are very vocal about it ---- and that's their right.  Many just don't care one way or the other.

At this time, though, the Razorbacks need to be more concerned about beating Mississippi State and Missouri and Auburn and Ole Miss and Texas A&M and LSU.  It's no wonder that competition with Arkansas State is a back-burner item.           

[Hawghiggs]

Arkansas State could help itself and its quest to be top dog in Arkansas by petitioning a conference like the Big Twelve for membership.  The Big Twelve needs to expand to twelve teams instead of ten, and the Red Wolves could quickly gain more credibility by membership there instead of the Sun Belt.  Success in the Big Twelve would then throw the onus of in-state competition onto the Razorbacks rather than the Red Wolves.

Personally I don't care whether they play or not.  It's just a football game.  I just tire of seeing grown men grovel and piss and moan about it (both sides).  Frankly I think the numbers of people that adamantly want them to play, and the number of people that adamantly don't want them to play, are in a small minority that are very vocal about it ---- and that's their right.  Many just don't care one way or the other.

At this time, though, the Razorbacks need to be more concerned about beating Mississippi State and Missouri and Auburn and Ole Miss and Texas A&M and LSU.  It's no wonder that competition with Arkansas State is a back-burner item.           

WTH. The Big 12 isn't coming after Astate. This wouldn't be a thing if the UofA hadn't made it one. That's the real issue and one that the UofA needs to put to bed. But the only way to do that is to actually play the games.

[bythelake]

Higgs,  what are you exactly and coherently talking about;  "UA made it a deal".

Again, coherent please.

[STLhawg]

WTH. The Big 12 isn't coming after Astate.

Correct!

This wouldn't be a thing if the UofA hadn't made it one.

WTH are you talking about?  How on earth did they make it a thing?  Talk about revisionist history...

[bythelake]

Thank you STLhog.

[Sow Lancelot]

We will just have to wait the boomer generation out when it comes to things like this.  The old money has dug in their heels on this and budging them from it would involve too much upset. 

I'm a Razorback fan for life, and I would love to play ASU in every sport, maybe not every year but often.  Even if we lost the game, we've had worse losses and survived. 

But the old money ain't getting younger and soon there will be a time when the AD doesn't run the program to please the dinosaurs. 

Why?

I'm amazed at what you girls get all worked up over.

Ain't that the truth!

[(notOM)Rebel123]

WTH. The Big 12 isn't coming after Astate. This wouldn't be a thing if the UofA hadn't made it one. That's the real issue and one that the UofA needs to put to bed. But the only way to do that is to actually play the games.

Why does the UofA need to "put to bed" an issue that is not their issue?
The UofA isn't the one making an issue out of it...

[12247]

Opinions:  We all got them.  Mine are.
1.  If we had been playing A State these past 5 years and getting our asses handed to us some or all of those years, Bret would have been gone after 3 years, not five.  If he had lost to them the first 2 years, he, MAYBE, would never have gotten the stupid extension, pay raise and bigger buyout.

2.  I do not know about individual University finances, but keeping dollars inside the borders of the State helps the state and both schools should benefit from that.

3.  I believe eventually we would see fandom much like BAMA/Aubbie, you beat that team or else you don't stay.

I do not know about benefits other than those but I do not see a downside to either program.  If the UofA cannot field teams capable of beating the other state team, then we need to upgrade or just quit.  Running is not acceptable for me.  NOTE:  I have never attended anything, A. State in my life so don't start with the A. State fan crap.  Just grow some balls and invite them to come on over.  Here Kitty, Kitty.

[oldhawg]

WTH. The Big 12 isn't coming after Astate. This wouldn't be a thing if the UofA hadn't made it one. That's the real issue and one that the UofA needs to put to bed. But the only way to do that is to actually play the games.

I didn't say that the Big 12 was coming after Arkansas State.  I said that the Red Wolves should take the initiative and seek membership in the Big 12.  Sooner or later the conference will expand to twelve, and the opportunity to develop relationships with the decisions makers of the Big 12 is now, not after they have put together their short list of potential new members.

On the other hand, the University of Arkansas needs to improve its status as a member of the SEC.  They can do that only by beating conference members more frequently, winning bowl games, and taking care of business against  other Power Five conference schools like TCU, Texas Tech, etc.  The only way that a Sun Belt team, or other team that's not a P-5 school affects Arkansas is if they lose to them (Toledo, Louisiana-Monroe, etc.).  Arkansas State falls into the last category, sum total = 0, unless the Razorbacks lose, then the sum total becomes a negative, regardless of the circumstances.

Arkansas State improves its image nationally by seeking and gaining membership in the Big Twelve, and changes the perception of the mutual value of competition between the two schools (UofA & ASU).  IMO, then and only then will you see a viable in state competition develop.  Otherwise it will always be this "big brother, little brother" attitude.

Is it likely to happen?  Who knows?  Is the Arkansas State support and leadership strong enough to present a viable case for membership in a P-5 conference?  Or are folks content with the status quo so that they can continue arguing the issue? 

[steveaustin69]

Opinions:  We all got them.  Mine are.
1.  If we had been playing A State these past 5 years and getting our asses handed to us some or all of those years, Bret would have been gone after 3 years, not five.  If he had lost to them the first 2 years, he, MAYBE, would never have gotten the stupid extension, pay raise and bigger buyout.

2.  I do not know about individual University finances, but keeping dollars inside the borders of the State helps the state and both schools should benefit from that.

3.  I believe eventually we would see fandom much like BAMA/Aubbie, you beat that team or else you don't stay.

I do not know about benefits other than those but I do not see a downside to either program.  If the UofA cannot field teams capable of beating the other state team, then we need to upgrade or just quit.  Running is not acceptable for me.  NOTE:  I have never attended anything, A. State in my life so don't start with the A. State fan crap.  Just grow some balls and invite them to come on over.  Here Kitty, Kitty.

The only good thing for the U of A from your benefits is getting out of Bielema earlier but that would be due to a bad thing for the university (losing to ASU.)

The topic isn't complicated. It doesn't benefit the U of A, therefore they will never do it.

[STLhawg]

I do not see a downside to either program. 

Then you aren't looking for one -- and haven't read posts in this thread.  ASU only wants to play home and home so that means the Razorbacks lose money even if they win both games, and they gain nothing by beating a Sunbelt team.

[STLhawg]

Arkansas State improves its image nationally by seeking and gaining membership in the Big Twelve, and changes the perception of the mutual value of competition between the two schools (UofA & ASU).  IMO, then and only then will you see a viable in state competition develop.  Otherwise it will always be this "big brother, little brother" attitude.

You are spot on!!!

[STLhawg]

I believe eventually we would see fandom much like BAMA/Aubbie, you beat that team or else you don't stay.

I cannot see that happening with ASU in the Sunbelt.

[HogimusMaximus]

Well that's really too bad. That would be a great turnpike series with a team that would be a quality OOC match-up for us. Plus, we already have a history with Oklahoma State.

OSU is a better program than us now!

[GolfNut57]

their logo is a copy of ours 

ASU had the forward facing logo first. In fact that is what they started with in 2008 when they changed mascots. The hogs front face came a few years later.

[hog of steele]

Who cares what Astate gets out of it? It won't matter. The UofA can't claim to be the biggest show in the state and all the while be chickenshirt to play anyone else.

Actually UofA is the biggest program in the state. We got there without playing them. We will stay there without playing them. A state doesn't want the game. Arkansas doesn't want the game. No chicken shirts in sight.