Guys, let's really look at recruiting

[Choctaw Hog]

If you want to check me I used Rivals Team Rankings. Rivals has the most complete records of any service and sticking with 1 service gives a comparable record.

http://sports.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/football/recruiting/teamrank/2016/all/all

2016--45  Yes I expect this number to change dramatically, should wind up mid twenties to #30.
2015--25
2014--29
2013--27
2012--35
2011--24
2010--44
2009--16
2008--36
2007--31
2006--27
2005--24
2004--27
2003--29
2002--25

Average that and it will come out to almost #30 dead on. Now 15 years should be a decent sample size. If you go back and look at our record over those years you will find that we have been a competitive football team. Not great, but not lousy!

For those of you that think that BB will magically change our recruiting, sorry it ain't happening. He may shift our higher rated recruits from one position to another, but overall we will hit from 20 to 30 every year.

To me the key for Arkansas is redshirting! Give these kids time to develop their talents and maximize their time at Arkansas. I said that with Petrino and I am saying it with BB. Believe it or not, Nutt was probably the best we had at redshirting players. And if you look at it he was really not a terrible recruiter. His problems were in other areas.

Now the other factor that I think is maybe even more important than recruiting is STABILITY! IF and I do say IF, BB manages to stay past year 4 or 5 stability may be the thing that helps our program get over the hump. Getting his program established and tweaked into what he really wants, developing kids for 5 years and maximizing our opportunities. The only question is does he make it for 5 years? If he wants to see year 5 he simply must win ALL of the games in which we are favored and pull off a couple of upsets every year. Too many bad losses will doom him.

Recruiting rankings are meaningless unless you account for the players who never make it to college, attrition and a reevaluation of each player 2, 3, and 4 years after the initial ranking.  You did a lot of work to discover nothing. 

[arlhog]

Go across most sports and Arkansas' recruiting budgets will almost always be near highest in the SEC because we have to recruit out of state so much.  Tennessee's are similar for the same reason.  It is misleading to suggest our budget means we should sign higher ranked classes. 

If Saban or any coach ever got one top 10 class at Arkansas, it would be a rare anomaly and probably would require an exceptionally deep in state class.

Freeze seems to have turned it around at Miss.  Recruiting anyway.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

If you want to compete against the saban teams in october you need to at least make it respectable in february.  They consistently get many players better than our best player every year.  you might sneak up and beat them one year, but you won't be able to compete with them on a consistent basis.

And therein lies the rub.  We will never compete with a Saban-led Bama program in February.  It's why AR isn't a destination job, but programs like Bama, LSU, FL, UGA are.  Available talent.  We will have to do it a different way.

[Wildhog]

And therein lies the rub.  We will never compete with a Saban-led Bama program in February.  It's why AR isn't a destination job, but programs like Bama, LSU, FL, UGA are.  Available talent.  We will have to do it a different way.

Then we've got to redshirt damn near everyone we sign.

[PorkRinds]

Then we've got to redshirt damn near everyone we sign.

If you think that's true you're gonna have to calm down a bit. Making that happen takes 5 years of recruiting classes with high retention rates.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Then we've got to redshirt damn near everyone we sign.

We have to recruit on a consistent top 25 level (with talent evenly distributed across all positions), which I believe is doable for us.  Then, yes, redshirt pretty much everybody, limit attrition, and keep a system in place for at least 5 years to see if it works. 

We aren't a program that can turn on a dime, and the hill we have to climb is significantly steeper than for most other rebuilding program because of the conference we play in.  It will take a while.  I see glimpses of awesomeness with what BB is wanting to do, but I also have concerns.  Just too early to know yet.

[arlhog]

And therein lies the rub.  We will never compete with a Saban-led Bama program in February.  It's why AR isn't a destination job, but programs like Bama, LSU, FL, UGA are.  Available talent.  We will have to do it a different way.

It's not impossible,  but it is difficult.  You have  to get a really good recruiter.  freeze has turned miss's recruiting around pretty well.  I know bama has more people than ar, but they don't get  all their players in state.  they recruit all over.

[hoglady]

And therein lies the rub.  We will never compete with a Saban-led Bama program in February.  It's why AR isn't a destination job, but programs like Bama, LSU, FL, UGA are.  Available talent.  We will have to do it a different way.

I'm not really concerned with beating Bama or Championships at this point.
I'm looking for a winning record in SEC play, winning out of conference games we should and at least a decent record in close games instead of 4th quarter meltdowns.
From where we've been the last few years - that sounds pretty good to me.
Baby steps.

[Wildhog]

If you think that's true you're gonna have to calm down a bit. Making that happen takes 5 years of recruiting classes with high retention rates.

It is true.  We're never going to sign classes as good as our conference rivals, so we've got to have older, more experienced players to make up for it.  I look for similar excuses next year.

[arlhog]

Then we've got to redshirt damn near everyone we sign.

That won't work.  You redshirt a good player then he goes pro after his sophomore season  You have to put the best team on the field every week. 

[Wildhog]

That won't work.  You redshirt a good player then he goes pro after his sophomore season  You have to put the best team on the field every week. 

How many players are we sending to the league after three seasons?  Not many at all.  Redshirting is the answer.  It's always been the answer.  It will always be the answer.


Otherwise let's just switch to the spread and try to win some shootouts.  But we're not winning with this style, with our recruiting, without a really strong redshirt program.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I'm not really concerned with beating Bama or Championships at this point.
I'm looking for a winning record in SEC play, winning out of conference games we should and at least a decent record in close games instead of 4th quarter meltdowns.
From where we've been the last few years - that sounds pretty good to me.
Baby steps.

Sure, but BB isn't playing with much talent as compared to his competition...Toledo notwithstanding.  He's dealing with huge injuries on offense and a QB who generally plays well between the 20's for the first 3 quarters.  Can't win a close game agains a quality opponent if the QB can't make the critical throw in the 4th...injured WR's notwithstanding. 

[Wildhog]

Sure, but BB isn't playing with much talent as compared to his competition...Toledo notwithstanding.

Lol, yeah.  Doesn't even seem to matter if we have more talent than the opponent at LITERALLY EVERY POSITION.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

It's not impossible,  but it is difficult.  You have  to get a really good recruiter.  freeze has turned miss's recruiting around pretty well.  I know bama has more people than ar, but they don't get  all their players in state.  they recruit all over.

Except we aren't Bama.  We can't even sniff the tradition they have.  They have the clout to effectively recruit anywhere.  And Bama is right in the middle of the most fertile recruiting region in the entire country. 

Sure, it's not impossible.  Its also not impossible for one to win the lottery either. 

[arlhog]

How many players are we sending to the league after three seasons?  Not many at all.  Redshirting is the answer.  It's always been the answer.  It will always be the answer.


Otherwise let's just switch to the spread and try to win some shootouts.  But we're not winning with this style, with our recruiting, without a really strong redshirt program.

Talent is the answer.   Experience helps but talent is the biggest factor.  Elite freshmen and sophomores beat mediocre juniors and seniors.  We have no answer for half of bamas defenders.  You bring back our last 2 graduating classes and we still have no answer for them.  You gotta have the horses.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Lol, yeah.  Doesn't even seem to matter if we have more talent than the opponent at LITERALLY EVERY POSITION.

Always an exception to the rule...I hope.

[Wildhog]

Talent is the answer.   Experience helps but talent is the biggest factor.  Elite freshmen and sophomores beat mediocre juniors and seniors.  We have no answer for half of bamas defenders.  You bring back our last 2 graduating classes and we still have no answer for them.  You gotta have the horses.

Well, we're not going to have the horses with the way we recruit, so you have to redshirt the talent that you get, if at all possible.

[hoglady]

Sure, but BB isn't playing with much talent as compared to his competition...Toledo notwithstanding.  He's dealing with huge injuries on offense and a QB who generally plays well between the 20's for the first 3 quarters.  Can't win a close game agains a quality opponent if the QB can't make the critical throw in the 4th...injured WR's notwithstanding. 

The talent disparity is nothing new. It's always been there for every coach we've had. Whoever the coach is has to figure out a way to overcome that. There's a problem with the RZ scoring and the 4th quarter meltdowns that go beyond talent. Not sure what it is. If those areas don't improve next year - then I'll be concerned they never will.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

The talent disparity is nothing new. It's always been there for every coach we've had. Whoever the coach is has to figure out a way to overcome that. There's a problem with the RZ scoring and the 4th quarter meltdowns that go beyond talent. Not sure what it is. If those areas don't improve next year - then I'll be concerned they never will.

I said it.  Major offensive injuries and game manager type QB.  It rarely goes far beyond pointing to talent.  We do commit a lot of penalties, which can somewhat be limited with coaching, but I'd argue that the penalties correspond to talent.  When you're bigger and slower than the guy in front of you, you tend to do illegal things to keep up...like hold. 

However, BB can be a strange duck with decision making in the 4th quarter. 

[Wildhog]

However, BB can be a strange duck with decision making in the 4th quarter. 

Well, that's a really nice way to put it.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Well, we're not going to have the horses with the way we recruit, so you have to redshirt the talent that you get, if at all possible.

"Except the recruiting services have consistently been wrong about our classes, because we don't buy enough subscriptions...all our guys are underrated."

If that's the case, then we've been the most underperforming program in college football for a long time now.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Well, that's a really nice way to put it.

I'm a nice guy.  Gentle with my criticism.  Of course, I'm one of the few that's argued that the fake punt against Bama, undoubtedly a dumb call, did not play as big of a roll in our loss as so many think.  But I'm probably a strange duck too.

[hoglady]

I said it.  Major offensive injuries and game manager type QB.  It rarely goes far beyond pointing to talent.  We do commit a lot of penalties, which can somewhat be limited with coaching, but I'd argue that the penalties correspond to talent.  When you're bigger and slower than the guy in front of you, you tend to do illegal things to keep up...like hold. 

However, BB can be a strange duck with decision making in the 4th quarter. 

Hopefully, there will be some improvement in that area as the year goes on.

[rjm1940]

I am so new to this board that I am not certain I will be able to post a comment, but I am going to try.

You guys are serious Hog fans and it has been my pleasure to read all the comments you have made.

I am a BB fan.  I think he is going to make us a Championship contender on a regular basis.

First, he has to establish a recruiting basis because we do not have enough D1 players in Arkansas to field a Championship team on a consistent basis.  Second, we need to win more games with the talent we have.  After the recruiting basis is established and we become know as a winning program recruiting will get easier and winning will become more consistent.  This will take four to five recruiting classes.

Programs can be turned around.  Arkansas can be turned around.  A few years ago I do not think the Big 12 wanted Baylor and they would not accept TCU.  These schools hired the right coach and look where they are today.

I think TPTB are trying to run a clean program at Arkansas.  This holds us back.  We could be getting more four and five star players right now if we wanted to do so.  I believe the rumors I have heard about Auburn.  Newton signed for $160,000 plus who knows what else.  Other Auburn players have said they were given sports bags filled with money during recruiting trips.  Louisville provides prostitutes for recruits.  USC was reported to have paid the Bush family over $750,000.  These are just a few examples that come to mind when I think about programs providing illegal incentives, and I do not know if any of these stories are true, but USC was put on probation and Alabama has been on probation.  I think a lot of schools who sign four and five star players from out of state are guilty of cheating.  How is Mississippi suddenly recruiting top 10 classes year after year?  Who in the world would leave their Home State to play in Mississippi?  It is hard to recruit a young man when he can get so much more at other places.

I hope we do not ever take the illegal approach.  There are players who for one reason or another do not go for the immediate money.  Players like Ricky Town want to play in a program they think can help them achieve the goals they have set for their lives will come to Arkansas.  I want to see our program built with young men of character and good judgment like Ricky Town.  We have many others with character and good judgment on our team now.  I think BB is building something wonderful, but it will take time to complete the process.

[Wildhog]

RJM, I agree with almost everything you said.  My only thing is that I don't believe we have recruited/are recruiting enough depth at key positions, and we're underachieving with the talent that we do have, to boot.

And Cam was bought for $200,000. 



You should post a lot more.

[Hawghiggs]

 We need to establish recruiting pipelines in the Kansas city metro area and St. Louis metro area.

[Rockhawg]

RJM, Great Post!
Please post more often. I have been on this board for over a dozen years and i see this conversation ten times a year. What has been consistent is the fact that i can somewhat agree with parts of every angle Fans come from.
The biggest advantage i believe in recruiting is simply WINNING !
Yeah, i know, that was a "duh" answer.

If you are not going to cheat at recruiting in a small state like Arkansas, you have to do a little bit of everything you guys have talked about.

You have to get the best recruits you can. A top 15 class is not possible when you are not an established winner. We are Not.

The "red shirt everyone" is great.You just will not win many games.If you don't win, you will have to look for another job!
You have to balance out who you need in the 2 deep that you can win with and red shirt the others. Hope nobody gets hurt.

IMO This is and always was, a rebuilding job that Long hired CBB to do.

As far as the number of *'s a recruit has, to me it matters more about who has made an offer to that recruit.

We have 6 games left, how we finish will have a huge impact on this recruiting class. Finish strong and we retain the good one's and possibly pick up a few more quality recruits.

[Wildhog]

The "red shirt everyone" is great.You just will not win many games.If you don't win, you will have to look for another job!
You have to balance out who you need in the 2 deep that you can win with and red shirt the others.

Redshirting is how you prepare for the future. It's a proven method of building a program the right way. We're not winning right now, anyway.  There's not one true freshman that's played (maaaaaybe RW3 or Greenlaw) that's really made a difference in us winning or losing.  I'm not saying redshirt literally everyone we sign, but we have to start being smarter about who we play.  Just the way it is.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Redshirting is definitely critical, no matter what the mouth breathers say.

i used to totally agree with this but now i'm not so sure. The problem is retention. What good is it to stack a guy for year 5 if most guys on average last 1.8 seasons or whatever?

[Wildhog]

i used to totally agree with this but now i'm not so sure. The problem is retention. What good is it to stack a guy for year 5 if most guys on average last 1.8 seasons or whatever?

It's as true as it's ever been.

[Pig in the Pokey]

It's as true as it's ever been.

i totally agree with the #'s on redshirting. I'm with you. it just blows up on you if you are too rigid. When the stars line up and you are poised to make a run, DON'T redshirt as many guys those years. All hands on deck- you customize the plan so to speak. Also, if you aren't retaining players you have to play more freshman. And if you are going to be really limited in a given year you've got to play more freshman. So , really, only about half the time at best should it be a "load up the redshirts" type year. You can't do it every year.

[nwahogfan1]

Thanks Lake.  Good stuff.

I agree with you on your comments on Redshirting and stability of coaching staff.  If we can keep these more constant then I think we will move up in the polls to an average of 15 and that could help us in recruiting enough to move up even further.  WE need more positive exposure and that will help recruiting.

Now if we can start turning out 10-12 very highly rated players in our state and land them all then that would help us tons.  As long as we have to go recruit hundreds of miles away from our campus to get our best players then it will be a crap shot and we will probable get mixed results.

[Grizzlyfan]

Real glad we burned Zach Rogers' shirt for three or four snaps against UTEP.  Solid strategy.

has Froholdt played on defense? or just special teams?

[PorkRinds]

has Froholdt played on defense? or just special teams?

He plays on the DL often.

[ricepig]

has Froholdt played on defense? or just special teams?

He's the one that bull rushed into the face of Coker on the infamous flop INT.

[HogFansReunited]

I am so new to this board that I am not certain I will be able to post a comment, but I am going to try.

You guys are serious Hog fans and it has been my pleasure to read all the comments you have made.

I am a BB fan.  I think he is going to make us a Championship contender on a regular basis.

First, he has to establish a recruiting basis because we do not have enough D1 players in Arkansas to field a Championship team on a consistent basis.  Second, we need to win more games with the talent we have.  After the recruiting basis is established and we become know as a winning program recruiting will get easier and winning will become more consistent.  This will take four to five recruiting classes.

Programs can be turned around.  Arkansas can be turned around.  A few years ago I do not think the Big 12 wanted Baylor and they would not accept TCU.  These schools hired the right coach and look where they are today.

I think TPTB are trying to run a clean program at Arkansas.  This holds us back.  We could be getting more four and five star players right now if we wanted to do so.  I believe the rumors I have heard about Auburn.  Newton signed for $160,000 plus who knows what else.  Other Auburn players have said they were given sports bags filled with money during recruiting trips.  Louisville provides prostitutes for recruits.  USC was reported to have paid the Bush family over $750,000.  These are just a few examples that come to mind when I think about programs providing illegal incentives, and I do not know if any of these stories are true, but USC was put on probation and Alabama has been on probation.  I think a lot of schools who sign four and five star players from out of state are guilty of cheating.  How is Mississippi suddenly recruiting top 10 classes year after year?  Who in the world would leave their Home State to play in Mississippi?  It is hard to recruit a young man when he can get so much more at other places.

I hope we do not ever take the illegal approach.  There are players who for one reason or another do not go for the immediate money.  Players like Ricky Town want to play in a program they think can help them achieve the goals they have set for their lives will come to Arkansas.  I want to see our program built with young men of character and good judgment like Ricky Town.  We have many others with character and good judgment on our team now.  I think BB is building something wonderful, but it will take time to complete the process.

Great post, you need to post more.
+1

[hawginbigd1]

Recruiting rankings are meaningless unless you account for the players who never make it to college, attrition and a reevaluation of each player 2, 3, and 4 years after the initial ranking.  You did a lot of work to discover nothing.

I agree with this 100% and that rankings matter, but not as much as many believe. I saw someone was doing re-rankings a year or so ago, and our 2009 class was like #6 in the country, based on how the individuals contributed on the field.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Just further shows we need a system and a coach like BP. Seems he did more with less according to these stats and records

Exactly. More with less.
Petrino offered a clear advantage on that side of the ball with his offensive schemes and playcalling. We put a lot of points on the board and won a lot of games. No one in the world of football disputes that he was one of the premier offensive minds in the game, so it was Arkansas's fortune to have a coach of that caliber and it helped level the SEC playing field quite a bit in those years.
The talent level during those years was very typical for Arkansas football, when considering the roster as a whole. Very Arkansas-esque, as the recruiting rankings show.
And before someone chimes in with the usual 'what about Mallett, Adams, Wright, etc ' two things. 1)I said roster AS A WHOLE was very typical Arkansas and 2) who signed Mallett, Adams, Wright? They were all recruited by Petrino, none of them were on campus when he took the job.

[Lake City Hog]

Choc, I think that if you took into account all of the things that you mentioned to every team's rankings it would probably work out to a very similar ranking. I just don't see a top 5 class falling to #30 or a #29 class rising to top 5 level.

Now I would grant that if a team garners a high ranking by stockpiling 4* kids at 1 position and fails to meet the needs across the board that their ranking should be viewed differently.

I do believe that a 15 year sample size is probably pretty accurate. Are the rankings a bit skewed, probably. Do the services totally miss on some kids, both ways? SURE! Do they totally blow it on the whole class? probably not by a whole lot.

[redeye]

Go across most sports and Arkansas' recruiting budgets will almost always be near highest in the SEC because we have to recruit out of state so much.  Tennessee's are similar for the same reason.  It is misleading to suggest our budget means we should sign higher ranked classes. 

Tennessee has always recruited well out of state and I believe they've always spent a fortune to do it.  They've probably led the nation in recruiting expenditures for 2 decades or more (I'm guessing, but know it's been going on for a long time).

We were near the bottom of the SEC a few years, around when Petrino was hired.  I began emphasizing it around here, and almost as if someone who mattered was listening, we soon began spending more and have spent well since.  I don't know where all that money goes for Arkansas or Tennessee, but I do believe that our recruiting efforts have increased as a result.  And despite what recruiting services say, I also think we're recruiting better today, but so is every other SEC team.

My personal opinion is that we're underachieving right now; especially in the 4th quarter.  We need to build more depth, among other things, but I don't think our roster is as bad as many seem to think.  Also doesn't help that we've played the 2nd toughest schedule in the nation so far, but don't we always?

[hawginbigd1]

Tennessee has always recruited well out of state and I believe they've always spent a fortune to do it.  They've probably led the nation in recruiting expenditures for 2 decades or more (I'm guessing, but know it's been going on for a long time).

We were near the bottom of the SEC a few years, around when Petrino was hired.  I began emphasizing it around here, and almost as if someone who mattered was listening, we soon began spending more and have spent well since.  I don't know where all that money goes for Arkansas or Tennessee, but I do believe that our recruiting efforts have increased as a result.  And despite what recruiting services say, I also think we're recruiting better today, but so is every other SEC team.

My personal opinion is that we're underachieving right now; especially in the 4th quarter.  We need to build more depth, among other things, but I don't think our roster is as bad as many seem to think.  Also doesn't help that we've played the 2nd toughest schedule in the nation so far, but don't we always?

100% agree with this great post +1. Our roster is very talented and getting deeper with every class. This last class IMO is much better than its ranking.

[Wildhog]

Tennessee has always recruited well out of state and I believe they've always spent a fortune to do it.  They've probably led the nation in recruiting expenditures for 2 decades or more (I'm guessing, but know it's been going on for a long time).

We were near the bottom of the SEC a few years, around when Petrino was hired.  I began emphasizing it around here, and almost as if someone who mattered was listening, we soon began spending more and have spent well since.  I don't know where all that money goes for Arkansas or Tennessee, but I do believe that our recruiting efforts have increased as a result.  And despite what recruiting services say, I also think we're recruiting better today, but so is every other SEC team.

My personal opinion is that we're underachieving right now; especially in the 4th quarter.  We need to build more depth, among other things, but I don't think our roster is as bad as many seem to think.  Also doesn't help that we've played the 2nd toughest schedule in the nation so far, but don't we always?

Great post.

[scruf]

Rankings matter but they aren't the only thing that matters with recruiting. Fit with the program, potential for growth, and student-athlete retention are equally important they just aren't as easy to quantify. Alabama isn't great just because they get great talent every year. They recruit guys that fit their program and then develop the crap out of them. Just look at the Longhorns over the last 6-7 years, they've signed loads of talent but have suffered poor retention, have done very little development on the field and they were getting guys who already physically maxed out in HS.

[HognitiveDissonance]

As some have said, and I agree with, Arkansas football and football recruiting hasn't changed hardly a bit in the last umpteen years.
The recruiting challenges have always been there, and probably will be for the foreseeable future.
You simply have to do more with less here. Is the coach good enough to do that?

It always comes down to the coach. As I've stated many times before, Arkansas is a place where you can do well if you're a good coach, but compete nationally only if you're a GREAT coach. I personally put Broyles and Petrino in that category, and maybe Holtz. Other coaches like Hatfield and Nutt were good coaches and did well at times, but I wouldn't call them GREAT. Not a slap, just an observation.

Someone mentioned Alabama. They're not immune from the 'needing a coach' problem either. As much tradition as they have, they're as reliant on who the coach is as Arkansas is. Put a Mike Shula or Mike Dubose in there, they do decent. Put Nick Saban or Bear Bryant in there, they take off. Yes, all things being equal, Alabama will have some advantages over Arkansas, and you've seen that over the years. Bear Bryant's better teams would beat Lou Holtz's team in the Sugar Bowl...or recently, Nick Saban's team would beat Petrino's teams. But we've also seen the reverse; when Alabama had decent coaches, Arkansas would trade wins/losses in the Nutt years.

It all comes down to the coach, pretty much wherever you go.

[Whiskeyhog]

I honestly think it is tougher for CBB to recruit the type of player he wants in Arkansas.  Living up here in Wisconsin I have a couple of boys who play high school and every week, every team will have at least two boys 6-3 to 6-5 270 or above on the line.  The guys they have playing linebacker for the most part are 6-1 to 6-3 range.  There is not a lot of team speed up here, but size.  Also the strength and conditioning they do on these boys are unreal.  What I remember growing up in back home, there wasn't as much emphasis on that at the schools due to budgets.  My point is because of the depth at both sides of the line and linebacker up here, made it easier for him to keep depth at Wisconsin every year and recruit harder on the skill positions. 

[Seminole Indian]

I'm one of those "what's in your wallet" types compared to who you play, and I like to look at the previous 5 years recruiting when sizing up a teams roster TALENT .

While not covering 5 years this site shows the composite recruiting rankings for every college football team, and it is not unreasonable to say the Razorbacks current roster is a top 25 caliber roster as far as talent.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-football-recruiting/2015/2/6/7987571/recruiting-rankings-ratings-2015-college-football-teams

Of course stating the obvious, a top 25 roster of talent may not get you in the top 10 in the SEC, which  can get you beat more often as not in SEC play.

[Bacons Rebellion]

If you are really going to look at recruiting, you need to look at the retention rate of each class, how many stayed and played, how many years they started, how many earned all conference or better, how many went on to the NFL, etc. 
...

I'll echo the retention theme over redshirting. Redshirting gives you one extra year of an experienced player IF he stays in school without bad grades or losing interest, or getting ticked over not playing, or failing Miss tests, and on and on.

What we can't afford, and what CBB seems to be doing fairly well at avoiding, is players taking up a signing spot, but not making it on campus or leaving after one year or even two years for any of those reasons above.

Redshirting is great, and I hate it when we blow a redshirt for a few plays, but I think it falls behind our overall need of 4 year retention.

[Wildhog]

I'll echo the retention theme over redshirting. Redshirting gives you one extra year of an experienced player IF he stays in school without bad grades or losing interest, or getting ticked over not playing, or failing Miss tests, and on and on.

What we can't afford, and what CBB seems to be doing fairly well at avoiding, is players taking up a signing spot, but not making it on campus or leaving after one year or even two years for any of those reasons above.

Redshirting is great, and I hate it when we blow a redshirt for a few plays, but I think it falls behind our overall need of 4 year retention.

Our attrition rate is very low.  Redshirting is vital.