Does having a team in the final 4 or elite 8 make a conference

[hogsanity]

better? Is the WCC any better as a league today than it was last Friday? Is the SEC better, top to bottom than it was 2 weeks ago. Just because UNC made the final 4, it still does not make up for 8 of their 9 NCAAT teams going out in the round of 64 or 32.  Oregon was good all year, so has them making the final 4 made the Pac12 better?

Take the SEC for example, LSU Mizzu, MSU, Aub are still no better than they were 2 weeks ago. SC was tied for 3rd in the SEC. To me all this tournament has shown is that the top of leagues are good, but really no league is very good top to bottom, and having a team in the final 4 or elite 8 does not change that.

[Biggus Piggus]

What makes the SEC better is proving itself against the other top leagues with three and should have been four teams in the Sweet 16. You don't know how they match up until they play with everything on the line.

[jethro]

The bump our conference is hoping to get is that we are not just "Kentucky and 13 terrible programs".  A lot of the nation thinks that if you lose to an SEC team then you must be roadkill.  SEC trying to say we have quality teams in that top half as good as anyone.  don't discount a loss to them.

[Vandyhog4]

Does it make the conference better?  No.  You are what you are. 

Does it change how others perceive the conference?  Absolutely. 

[BroyledNutts]

Mostly what it shows is that no conference is as good, or as bad, as sports media make them out to be ... in every league there are teams that are successful, and teams that are not; and, typically, year over year the pecking order usually doesn't change too much.

I've never witnessed a conference where all teams within won and lost the same number of games.

It's perceptual bias that arbitrarily assigns strength, weakness, respect, and derision.

[Youngsta71701]

better? Is the WCC any better as a league today than it was last Friday? Is the SEC better, top to bottom than it was 2 weeks ago. Just because UNC made the final 4, it still does not make up for 8 of their 9 NCAAT teams going out in the round of 64 or 32.  Oregon was good all year, so has them making the final 4 made the Pac12 better?

Take the SEC for example, LSU Mizzu, MSU, Aub are still no better than they were 2 weeks ago. SC was tied for 3rd in the SEC. To me all this tournament has shown is that the top of leagues are good, but really no league is very good top to bottom, and having a team in the final 4 or elite 8 does not change that.

Don't know about 1 but having 3 teams in the elite 8 gets the conversation started. Hence the topic of the thread.

[hogsanity]

But next season, lets use the WCC for example, are they going to be viewed as a better league simply because their top team made the final 4? OR will the sec be viewed as a better league just because the 3 of the top 4 teams in the league made the elite 8?

What I see happening to the SEC is that SC is going to be a one hit wonder with their main guy graduating, and the bottom of the league still being miserably bad. 

[phadedhawg]

WCC is a mid major conference that has one great school.  Maybe if 3 WCC teams made it to the elite 8 there would be an argument to make that they are better than their previous reputation. 

I think the SEC has been a bit insecure about it's basketball for the last half a decade and maybe this year's tourney put some of those doubts to bed.

[hawginbigd1]

What makes the SEC better is proving itself against the other top leagues with three and should have been four teams in the Sweet 16 Elite 8. You don't know how they match up until they play with everything on the line.

FIFY we would have beat the pants off Butler. This is spot on, the SEC has consistently improved over the last 3 years, but it is still getting labeled as a bad league, it was and now it is not. the showings should get the league the credibility it deserves, and if the trend continues it will be right on par with the ACC just around the corner.

[Swinesong1]

Hmmmmmm...yet another attempt.  So sad.

[12247]

Just like most of Hogville feels better about our Hogs as a team because they showed up the last 10 or 12 games of the season and in the SEC and NCAA tournies, our conference having 3 teams in the Elite 8 stands strong and will be remembered.  Our conference has been overall bad for years.  We've had 1 and sometimes 2 teams pretty good and mostly wannabees thereafter.  Aw, we'd get in the nit and make a showing sometimes but the NIT is playing with teams ranking from the mid fifties to 125.  When your conference places three eights of the teams in the Elite 8, that speaks.  Plus, even though some of us realize that UNC underplayed until they had to reach and get it late, we still led them late and got beat by 3 points, 3 little ole points, 1 shot.  All that is on the BB worlds mind and it will make a difference how the BB world sees our conference.  For the first time in a very long time, we appear to deserve to be a Power 5 Conference member in BB.

[azhog10]

Hmmmmmm...yet another attempt.  So sad.

Its quite comical at this point.

[HogBreath]

Don't know about 1 but having 3 teams in the elite 8 gets the conversation started. Hence the topic of the thread.

Exactly, not sure how or why someone would try to even come up with a different scenario. 

It is what it is.

[ChicoHog]

I think you have to take the out of conference games during season and throw that in to the mix also.   But most importantly, don't judge a conference on the performance of a few teams, good or bad. 

[hogsanity]

I think you have to take the out of conference games during season and throw that in to the mix also.   But most importantly, don't just a conference on the performance of a few teams, good or bad. 

And that was where I was coming from on this. While you can not judge a conference on its worst 3 or 4 teams, you cant judge it just on the top 3 or 4 teams either. The SEC is certainly more than  just LSU/A&M/MSU/AUB, it is also more than just KY/AR/SC/Fla.

What, if anything, will the 3 teams in the elite 8 and a team in the final 4 translate into for the SEC next season?

[djgaffer]

And that was where I was coming from on this. While you can not judge a conference on its worst 3 or 4 teams, you cant judge it just on the top 3 or 4 teams either. The SEC is certainly more than  just LSU/A&M/MSU/AUB, it is also more than just KY/AR/SC/Fla.

What, if anything, will the 3 teams in the elite 8 and a team in the final 4 translate into for the SEC next season?

For next season... it certainly improves the conference perception.  It makes it harder for people to just blindly say the league isn't good when you can point to 3 Elite 8 teams. 

To the original post:  No, 3 teams going on a run doesn't make the league any better than it was three weeks ago by itself.  However, it is another piece of evidence that the league is improving.  The SEC has increased the quality of its coaches over the past couple of years.  That should lead to continued improvements in recruiting, which will be further helped by the tournament runs and national exposure.  Those are all good things.

Ultimately, the league still has to schedule better in the non-conference.  And when we have opportunities in the non-conference, we need to start winning those games. That includes us.  We didn't do the league any favors by basically being non-competitive in games on the road against Minnesota / Oklahoma State.  Winning those types of games is what will build the total league power rating and perception.   But it seems like a safe assumption the SEC is trending in a better direction, and closer to a 5 or 6+ bid league moving forward. 

[Youngsta71701]

And that was where I was coming from on this. While you can not judge a conference on its worst 3 or 4 teams, you cant judge it just on the top 3 or 4 teams either. The SEC is certainly more than  just LSU/A&M/MSU/AUB, it is also more than just KY/AR/SC/Fla.

What, if anything, will the 3 teams in the elite 8 and a team in the final 4 translate into for the SEC next season?

Respect and credibility. We still have to play and win games against out of conference opponents to keep it.

[jm]

And that was where I was coming from on this. While you can not judge a conference on its worst 3 or 4 teams, you cant judge it just on the top 3 or 4 teams either. The SEC is certainly more than  just LSU/A&M/MSU/AUB, it is also more than just KY/AR/SC/Fla.

What, if anything, will the 3 teams in the elite 8 and a team in the final 4 translate into for the SEC next season?

It changes the dynamics in the minds of the post season selection committee. How many times did you hear or read about how bad the SEC is this past year? Things like " Arkansas shouldn't make the NCAA tournament because they aren't even at the top of a trash league".

[hogsanity]

It changes the dynamics in the minds of the post season selection committee. How many times did you hear or read about how bad the SEC is this past year? Things like " Arkansas shouldn't make the NCAA tournament because they aren't even at the top of a trash league".

That may be, but won't next year be determined by how the SEC does in the ooc part of the schedule?

[Atlhogfan1]

It doesn't make an entire conference better necessarily.  The WCC has a great program at the top in Gonzaga.  St. Marys has been a good consistent program.  Doesn't change what most of the rest of the conference is.

I know this was created to relate to the SEC.  The SEC has had two great programs who have shown consistency in UK and UF.  A 3rd TEAM has risen occasionally in the postseason.  The positive for the SEC this season with the NCAAT performance is it may be showing signs of a couple of more programs emerging which would help the reputation by suggesting it is finally developing some depth.  Great for the conference a team other than UK or UF made the F4. 

Doesn't change what the majority of the conference was.  The SEC didn't have more than 5 teams who could have made a case for making the NCAAT.  As said earlier, the SEC needs to start winning ooc games at a higher percentage in order to change the narrative more.  Some progress was made in at least splitting with the B12 and having mixed results instead of it being one sided.  The bottom of the conference had fewer bad teams.

Another positive is Mizzou is trying to return to respectability.  It should be a program the SEC can count on to make NCAAT with some regularity. 

I like Martin and hope this thing with SC isn't just a one group run and he can repeat it.  Unlike SEC football, we don't have to be worried about getting buried deeper if another program rises up.  It is good for the conference.

As far as the NCAAT committee in the future, what they use to evaluate teams is changing.  The RPI may be used less so the manipulation of it may not mean as much.  They are human so anything positive they get about the SEC is a good thing. 

[jm]

That may be, but won't next year be determined by how the SEC does in the ooc part of the schedule?

Not as much as one would think. That would be too logical. Next year will begin with a pre determined outlook just like last year and the year before. That is one reason SC was left out last year even though they had a pretty good overall record.

[Youngsta71701]

http://arkansas.247sports.com/Gallery/See-how-the-major-conferences-have-fared-in-the-NCAA-Tournament-51993815/GallerySlides/507928?View=Full

[bphi11ips]

But next season, lets use the WCC for example, are they going to be viewed as a better league simply because their top team made the final 4? OR will the sec be viewed as a better league just because the 3 of the top 4 teams in the league made the elite 8?

What I see happening to the SEC is that SC is going to be a one hit wonder with their main guy graduating, and the bottom of the league still being miserably bad. 

Lol.  It's already started.

[zuko]

I understand that there is a pot of about 220 million to be distributed to the schools. The further they go the more money they make. Too, there is no such thing as a moral victory. i.e. the NC game. No win no money.

[King Kong]

Hmmmmmm...yet another attempt.  So sad.

This OP
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LQCU36pkH7c"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[hogsanity]

Lol.  It's already started.

So you think SC will be final 4 calibre next year losing the players they are losing?

[Swinesong1]

This OP
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LQCU36pkH7c"; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

😂

[forrest city joe]

Hmmmmmm...yet another attempt.  So sad.

He's trying everything,and nothing is working.Mike Anderson is going to be the coach no matter how hard he try,s.

[PharmacistHog]

It wont make the conference better overnight. It might gain a little respect from the writers and sportscasters which could lead to better publicity. If we could sustain the momentum for a few years it could translate into better recruits across the board and eventually make the conference "better".

[ShadowHawg]

It wont make the conference better overnight. It might gain a little respect from the writers and sportscasters which could lead to better publicity. If we could sustain the momentum for a few years it could translate into better recruits across the board and eventually make the conference "better".

The conference is already 2nd only to.The ACC now in putting guys into the league.

One of the reasons why the belief that the SEC is awful really lacks merit.

How many more good players is it going to take?

[PharmacistHog]

The conference is already 2nd only to.The ACC now in putting guys into the league.

One of the reasons why the belief that the SEC is awful really lacks merit.

How many more good players is it going to take?

Well Kentucky's NBA farm system kinda skews the numbers (I would tend to think).

[ChicoHog]

The conference is already 2nd only to.The ACC now in putting guys into the league.

One of the reasons why the belief that the SEC is awful really lacks merit.

How many more good players is it going to take?

Yeah but how many of those guys are from one school (UK)?  I don't know the numbers but I guess that if you take out UK the SEC is probably middle of the pack producing NBA players.  I doubt if you can say the same about the ACC and subtract Duke or UNC. 

[ShadowHawg]

Yeah but how many of those guys are from one school (UK)?  I don't know the numbers but I guess that if you take out UK the SEC is probably middle of the pack producing NBA players.  I doubt if you can say the same about the ACC and subtract Duke or UNC.

You would be wrong. Take out UNC and Duke from the ACC. UCLA or Arizona from the Pac 12. See you can do that with any conference. So why do you act like it only holds true for the SEC?

By the way, doesn't the Big 12 have Kansas? Shouldn't they be producing as many as Kentucky and in addition to all the great teams in the league by rights should be producing more NBA talent than the SEC?

LSU puts guys in the league with regularity. So does Florida. Even we have had a couple drafted in the last 6 years.

[ShadowHawg]

Well Kentucky's NBA farm system kinda skews the numbers (I would tend to think).

Do UNC and Duke skew the ACC?

How about Kansas for the Big XII?

It's not as lopsided as you would think. As of 2015, Kentucky only accounted for 25% of all SEC players drafted. Whereas Kansas accounted for 29% of all Big XII players taken.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/06/24/nba-draft-most-players-college-conference-kentucky-kansas-acc

[hogsanity]

Do UNC and Duke skew the ACC?

How about Kansas for the Big XII?

It's not as lopsided as you would think. As of 2015, Kentucky only accounted for 25% of all SEC players drafted. Whereas Kansas accounted for 29% of all Big XII players taken.

https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2015/06/24/nba-draft-most-players-college-conference-kentucky-kansas-acc

KY accounts for 25% of the sec draft picks yet makes up only 7% of the sec membership. Kansas has 29% of all big 12 draftees, yet makes up 10% of their conf membership.

[Atlhogfan1]

The conference is already 2nd only to.The ACC now in putting guys into the league.

One of the reasons why the belief that the SEC is awful really lacks merit.

How many more good players is it going to take?

Although a little better and deeper this season, it has been awful in terms of depth with too many mediocre to awful teams/programs.  Apparently need more good players than what we have seen.  UK and UF have carried the conference.  The issue hasn't been with the top of the conference with UK and UF and usually another team or two who rise up.  It has been with the other 10-11's mediocrity to awfulness.  This season including the NCAAT should give optimism the reputation and reality is changing for the better. 

NCAAT appearances in last 6 seasons:

UK - 5 - 1 NC 2012 + 2 Final 4's + 1 Elite 8
Florida - 4 - 1 Final 4 + 3 Elite 8's
Vandy - 3 2012, 2016, 2017 - last NCAAT win 2012
Hogs - 2 2015 and 2017
Ole Miss - 2 2013 and 2015
Mizzou - 2 - 2012 (Big 12) and 2013
SC - 1 - 2017 Final 4 - previous appearance 2004
A&M - 1 2016
LSU - 1 2015
UGa - 1- 2015 - last NCAAT win 2002
Tenn - 1 2014
Bama - 1 2012
AU - 0 last was 2003
Miss St - 0 last was 2009

24 appearances with 3 teams reaching the F4

To compare to another 14 team conference:

B1G
Mich St - 6 with 1 Final 4
Wisconsin - 6 with 2 Final 4's
Michigan - 5 with 1 Final 4
Oh St - 4 with 1 Final 4
Purdue - 4
Indiana - 4
Maryland - 3
Iowa - 3
Minnesota - 2
Northwestern - 1 2017
Nebraska - 1 2014
Illinois - 1 2013
Penn St - 0
Rutgers - 0

40 NCAAT's with 4 different teams reaching a F4

We know we don't compete with the depth of the ACC.

Pac 12 hasn't been that great either.  They don't have the two extra bottom feeders we do each season to pull them down further either.

Oregon - 5 - 1 F4 and 1 E8
Arizona - 5 - 2 E8s but no F4 since 2001
UCLA - 4 - last F4 was 2008
Colorado - 4
Cal - 3
USC - 2 -2016 and 2017
Utah - 2 2015 and 2016
Stanford  - 1 - 2014
Az St - 1 2014
Or St - 1 - 2016
Wash - 0 last 2011
Wash St - 0 last 2008

12 teams - 28 appearances - only one F4 appearance in Oregon this season

B12

KU - 6 - F4 2012 and 2 E8's
ISU - 6
Baylor - 5 with 1 E8
OU - 4 - 1 F4
WV - 4
Texas - 4
K St - 4
Ok St - 4
TT - 1 - 2016
TCU - 0 last 1998

38 appearances out of a 10 team conferences - only 2 F4 appearances
gave Mizzou credit for 1 with SEC

[ShadowHawg]

Although a little better and deeper this season, it has been awful in terms of depth with too many mediocre to awful teams/programs.  Apparently need more good players than what we have seen.  UK and UF have carried the conference.  The issue hasn't been with the top of the conference with UK and UF and usually another team or two who rise up.  It has been with the other 10-11's mediocrity to awfulness.  This season including the NCAAT should give optimism the reputation and reality is changing for the better. 

NCAAT appearances in last 6 seasons:

UK - 5 - 1 NC 2012 + 2 Final 4's + 1 Elite 8
Florida - 4 - 1 Final 4 + 3 Elite 8's
Vandy - 3 2012, 2016, 2017 - last NCAAT win 2012
Hogs - 2 2015 and 2017
Ole Miss - 2 2013 and 2015
Mizzou - 2 - 2012 (Big 12) and 2013
SC - 1 - 2017 Final 4 - previous appearance 2004
A&M - 1 2016
LSU - 1 2015
UGa - 1- 2015 - last NCAAT win 2002
Tenn - 1 2014
Bama - 1 2012
AU - 0 last was 2003
Miss St - 0 last was 2009

24 appearances with 3 teams reaching the F4

To compare to another 14 team conference:

B1G
Mich St - 6 with 1 Final 4
Wisconsin - 6 with 2 Final 4's
Michigan - 5 with 1 Final 4
Oh St - 4 with 1 Final 4
Purdue - 4
Indiana - 4
Maryland - 3
Iowa - 3
Minnesota - 2
Northwestern - 1 2017
Nebraska - 1 2014
Illinois - 1 2013
Penn St - 0
Rutgers - 0

40 NCAAT's with 4 different teams reaching a F4

We know we don't compete with the depth of the ACC.

Pac 12 hasn't been that great either.  They don't have the two extra bottom feeders we do each season to pull them down further either.

Oregon - 5 - 1 F4 and 1 E8
Arizona - 5 - 2 E8s but no F4 since 2001
UCLA - 4 - last F4 was 2008
Colorado - 4
Cal - 3
USC - 2 -2016 and 2017
Utah - 2 2015 and 2016
Stanford  - 1 - 2014
Az St - 1 2014
Or St - 1 - 2016
Wash - 0 last 2011
Wash St - 0 last 2008

12 teams - 28 appearances - only one F4 appearance in Oregon this season

B12

KU - 6 - F4 2012 and 2 E8's
ISU - 6
Baylor - 5 with 1 E8
OU - 4 - 1 F4
WV - 4
Texas - 4
K St - 4
Ok St - 4
TT - 1 - 2016
TCU - 0 last 1998

38 appearances out of a 10 team conferences - only 2 F4 appearances
gave Mizzou credit for 1 with SEC

The SEC has been getting screwed on teams for nearly all those six seasons. There was one year where only 3 teams got in and all 3 made the Sweet 16 with 2 to the Elite Eight. Meanwhile the A10 got 4 teams in the tourney.

The middle of the conference is about the same as the middle of the other conferences outside the ACC. The real difference being that other conferences get the benefit of having more good teams at the top of the conference.

If their top level team fell to the mid tier then you would see the conference drop off as well because of the lack of opportunities for quality wins. That's really what has gone on with the SEC in recent years. You have Kentucky, then the rest of the pack.

This season the SEC was helped by Florida and SC strong starts through the first 23 games or so. It allowed for more opportunities for quality wins and made the difference for Vandy getting in with 15 losses.

[Dirty]

Arkansas men's basketball team lost in the weight room, The OP would be here spewing his hate for our coach.

[Atlhogfan1]

The SEC has been getting screwed on teams for nearly all those six seasons. There was one year where only 3 teams got in and all 3 made the Sweet 16 with 2 to the Elite Eight. Meanwhile the A10 got 4 teams in the tourney.

The middle of the conference is about the same as the middle of the other conferences outside the ACC. The real difference being that other conferences get the benefit of having more good teams at the top of the conference.

If their top level team fell to the mid tier then you would see the conference drop off as well because of the lack of opportunities for quality wins. That's really what has gone on with the SEC in recent years. You have Kentucky, then the rest of the pack.

This season the SEC was helped by Florida and SC strong starts through the first 23 games or so. It allowed for more opportunities for quality wins and made the difference for Vandy getting in with 15 losses.

It is also the bottom of the conference which has hurt the SEC.  Too many "low" quality opponents for teams wanting to be in the NCAAT discussion with the unbalanced schedule adding to it for some teams.  SC last season experienced this with their SEC schedule.  The B12 benefits from a lack of dead weight and playing each other twice.  The Pac 12 to a lesser extent.  Having 14 teams + the collapse of Mizzou + our rebuild taking some time + LSU's disappearance have contributed to the SEC's depth lacking.  There is an opportunity if Mizzou and LSU can return to relevancy and our apparent rise happening plus the upgrading in coaches for it to may be becoming a benefit to have so many programs like it has the ACC. 

Not sure how much the SEC has been screwed.  Maybe a team or two some seasons had a bubble case.  The majority of teams no chance.  The committee doesn't choose based on conference although we will agree the conference goes a long way to a team's reputation in many instances and to its "numbers".  Just because a conference has a couple of really good teams and a third may win a couple of NCAAT games doesn't change what the rest of the conference's teams are.  Gonzaga and St Marys aren't changing what Portland and San Fransisco are. 

The SEC's other issue has been non conference performance.  It wasn't very good again in Nov and Dec in terms of top 25 and 50 wins compared to other major conferences.  Our performances certainly didn't help our rep or the SEC's. 

It is great our F4 rep is SC.  Have to show this isn't a one time fluke.  Our performance vs UNC may resonate too if we follow it up next season.