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Now you see what Mike Anderson has been up against. other teams buying players

Started by forrest city joe, February 23, 2018, 10:26:26 am

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hogsanity

Quote from: HawgTrough on February 23, 2018, 12:38:29 pm
somebody alert the burn unit. FCJ is sending a patient down

No, FCJ is coming on his own stretcher

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 12:28:29 pm
Show me one time Nolan/Mike had over 2 MD's all Americans on their team at one time.Corliss and D. Robinson.KY has 6 this year at one time.and have had more at one time in the past. so try again.just stop it.

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on February 23, 2018, 12:38:54 pm
Lee Todd Huery

Reid Hood Robinson

Alexander Reid Hood

People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawganatic

Quote from: razorhead94 on February 23, 2018, 10:56:47 am
Don't also just act like coaches don't have any clue.  They absolutely do.  And their has been documentation of "Coach B" and "Coach C" on reports telling them to make it happen through intermediaries.

There are all kinds of avenues whether it be agents, shoe companies, financial advisors, etc.

That may be true, but in THIS PARTICULAR CASE, it is about an agent paying players, not the schools.  MA's saving grace in this case is he wasn't able to recruit any of those players to Arkansas (and you know he would have taken them).

 

forrest city joe

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on February 23, 2018, 12:38:54 pm
Lee Todd Huery

Reid Hood Robinson

Alexander Reid Hood
And Notice one thing. it's not 5 or more.and notice during those times we won a NC,went to final fours,E-8,sweet 16? this game for the most part about who has the best talent.and other teams are cheating to get that kind of talent.Mike is not.be thankful he is our coach.

hawganatic

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 12:06:01 pm
+1000. Unc got away with the most massive academic fraud.scandal i have ever seen.and the NCAA refuse to touch them.the NCAA is a joke!how the hell is Mike Anderson going to ever win really big with this BS going on?and i see the media is already making excuse for the Blue Blooks.SICKENING!

UNC found a loophole and the NCAA couldn't touch them.  When they offered the fake classes up for everybody, not just athletes, the NCAA had no course of action.

forrest city joe

Quote from: hawganatic on February 23, 2018, 12:53:04 pm
UNC found a loophole and the NCAA couldn't touch them.  When they offered the fake classes up for everybody, not just athletes, the NCAA had no course of action.
Some of the players never even came to the class,and got passing grades.so kust stop making excuses for the NCAA letting them off.wake the hell up.

hawganatic

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 12:57:12 pm
Some of the players never even came to the class,and got passing grades.so kust stop making excuses for the NCAA letting them off.wake the hell up.

Go back and educate yourself on the issue, opposed to just randomly popping off.  The scandal was a University issue, not an athletics issue.  The NCAA was limited in what they could do.

You also need to educate yourself on the current issue, opposed to just randomly popping off.  There's no indication that teams bought players, yet.  This is a case of an AGENT providing money to players.  Short of the agent funneling the players to certain schools (unlikely considering the number of schools involved), this is not going to be a case of "other teams buying players."

Curious why you feel the need to come on here and make excuses for MA, since you preach on this board so much about how well he is doing here.


Karma

Quote from: Kevin on February 23, 2018, 10:54:03 am
this case is about an agent paying players, not schools. now, let see if there is any proof, that the coaches knew of the payments.

read first, before getting on here and being completely wrong
Exactly. People are jumping to conclusions that are not in the documents released today.

AHiD

Quote from: hawganatic on February 23, 2018, 01:08:59 pm
Go back and educate yourself on the issue, opposed to just randomly popping off.  The scandal was a University issue, not an athletics issue.  The NCAA was limited in what they could do.

You also need to educate yourself on the current issue, opposed to just randomly popping off.  There's no indication that teams bought players, yet.  This is a case of an AGENT providing money to players.  Short of the agent funneling the players to certain schools (unlikely considering the number of schools involved), this is not going to be a case of "other teams buying players."

Curious why you feel the need to come on here and make excuses for MA, since you preach on this board so much about how well he is doing here.

Actually wrong. There is evidence of funneling players to schools. http://es.pn/2HI2iyU
Jim Gatto was the guy at the head of it in Adidas.
My name...is Jerruh

KlubhouseKonnected

Quote from: Kevin on February 23, 2018, 10:54:03 am
this case is about an agent paying players, not schools. now, let see if there is any proof, that the coaches knew of the payments.

read first, before getting on here and being completely wrong

Did you read any of the indictments? There will be some who did not and some who definitely did, and others with just enough plausible deniability that you can assume but not act.

I will say this, I want to be clean, I would value clean success more highly than tainted success. HOWEVER, if the NCAA refuses to take advantage of the federal investigation materials and not punish primary offenders (due to cash and status) then I say we just admit we are playing farm league proball and hop into the market with both feet.

REFUSAL by the NCAA to vigorously pursue this opportunity and strictly enforce penalties will be the FINAL, CLEAR tacit ADMISSION that their rules are not genuinely intended to be applied equally in good faith.

Such admission renders those rules invalid and unworthy of any adherence to them.
If Auburn is dirty so is Gus. You can't have it both ways. Deal with it.

AHiD

"Jim Gatto: The senior Adidas marketing executive at the center of the scheme, according to federal officials, to direct payments to prep players and their families in exchange for their commitments to play at Adidas-sponsored college programs. He was widely known in college basketball as a key dealmaker in the apparel and shoe industry."

From the above link
My name...is Jerruh

steveaustin69

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 12:57:12 pm
Some of the players never even came to the class,and got passing grades.so kust stop making excuses for the NCAA letting them off.wake the hell up.

I take it you're not a lawyer.

hogsanity

Quote from: Arkansas Hog in Dallas on February 23, 2018, 01:13:04 pm
"Jim Gatto: The senior Adidas marketing executive at the center of the scheme, according to federal officials, to direct payments to prep players and their families in exchange for their commitments to play at Adidas-sponsored college programs. He was widely known in college basketball as a key dealmaker in the apparel and shoe industry."

From the above link

BUt there are MANY ADDIDAS sponsored schools. Now, show me one of them that called up Gatto and said " Hey, we want player X to play here " and then he paid them to go there, yea thats different.

Right now it is just him telling kids that HE wants them at an Addidas school.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

forrest city joe

Quote from: Arkansas Hog in Dallas on February 23, 2018, 01:11:45 pm
Actually wrong. There is evidence of funneling players to schools. http://es.pn/2HI2iyU
Jim Gatto was the guy at the head of it in Adidas.
Thank You.+1000.but these Anderson haters don't want facts.it does not fit in with their whining about Mike.

 

forrest city joe

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 01:17:15 pm
BUt there are MANY ADDIDAS sponsored schools. Now, show me one of them that called up Gatto and said " Hey, we want player X to play here " and then he paid them to go there, yea thats different.

Right now it is just him telling kids that HE wants them at an Addidas school.
How do you know what the FBI have on those wire taps?does Rick Pitino ring a bell?

AHiD

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 01:17:15 pm
BUt there are MANY ADDIDAS sponsored schools. Now, show me one of them that called up Gatto and said " Hey, we want player X to play here " and then he paid them to go there, yea thats different.

Right now it is just him telling kids that HE wants them at an Addidas school.

If you'd read the article you'd see that the USC associate head coach got arrested for doing just that.
My name...is Jerruh

hogsanity

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 01:22:14 pm
How do you know what the FBI have on those wire taps?does Rick Pitino ring a bell?

Which is why I have said, REPEATEDLY, the evidence RELEASED to this point, does not show schools directing payments to get these players to sign with them. For all I know they may have a wire tapped conversation between Crapilari, Coach K, and Izzo where all three are dividing up players among themselves. As of now though it is all an agent paying players to retain them as clients after they are done with school.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Dmacattack

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 10:26:26 am
For those of you that have been whining and crying  about why Mike can't get a Colin Sexton or a other 5 star players to come to Arkansas like Alabama and Auburn are doing. you got your reason.want to know why KY and UNC keep beating Arkansas?you got your answer.want to know why we can't be like were were under Eddie and Nolan.you got your answer.the teams that get the top players do most of the winning.most time the best players will win.Mike and other coaches like him have almost no chance in this system.it's a joke.yet people are screaming fire Mike because he keeps losing to these teams.THESE TEAMS HAVE BEEN BUYING THE BEST PLAYERS!MIKE ANDERSON HAS NOT!college basketball is a joke.Unc,KY KU and Duke will get away with this.nothing will happen.

Glad he's recruited the right way. He still doesn't teach fundamentals...

BentonvilleJeff

Looks like Duke and Mich St were paying players too. FBI involvement shows they have proof.

hawganatic

Quote from: Arkansas Hog in Dallas on February 23, 2018, 01:13:04 pm
"Jim Gatto: The senior Adidas marketing executive at the center of the scheme, according to federal officials, to direct payments to prep players and their families in exchange for their commitments to play at Adidas-sponsored college programs. He was widely known in college basketball as a key dealmaker in the apparel and shoe industry."

From the above link

So how does this link the school/coach to the payments?  This links a shoe company to paying players to go to any school that wears Adidas, not any particular school.

ArkansasI

So far, we've provided factual proof that Nolan's best teams had McDonald's All-Americans on them, and Mike has not successfully recruited a single McDonald's All-American to the University of Arkansas.

Carry on.

steveaustin69


hogsanity

Quote from: BentonvilleJeff on February 23, 2018, 01:34:37 pm
Looks like Duke and Mich St were paying players too. FBI involvement shows they have proof.

From what I read in the article, it proves they had players that a agent was paying to sign with him after they were out of school. That is far different from the school paying a player to go there.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawganatic

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 01:18:07 pm
Thank You.+1000.but these Anderson haters don't want facts.it does not fit in with their whining about Mike.

You're actually the one that turned this into a Mike Anderson thing, so don't complain when people refute your so called "facts."

Even outside of that, since YOU made this about Mike Anderson, I think there have been 20 schools named so far, some only involving one player.  Explain to the board how that excuses inconsistent results and only making the tournament 2 years out of 7 into his tenure.

The Hogfather

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 10:26:26 am
For those of you that have been whining and crying  about why Mike can't get a Colin Sexton or a other 5 star players to come to Arkansas like Alabama and Auburn are doing. you got your reason.want to know why KY and UNC keep beating Arkansas?you got your answer.want to know why we can't be like were were under Eddie and Nolan.you got your answer.the teams that get the top players do most of the winning.most time the best players will win.Mike and other coaches like him have almost no chance in this system.it's a joke.yet people are screaming fire Mike because he keeps losing to these teams.THESE TEAMS HAVE BEEN BUYING THE BEST PLAYERS!MIKE ANDERSON HAS NOT!college basketball is a joke.Unc,KY KU and Duke will get away with this.nothing will happen.

Wonder how much Perry and his family got....

 

AHiD

My name...is Jerruh

AHiD

"Schools named in former ASM Sports employee Christian Dawkins' expense reports (seeking reimbursement for thousands of dollars he paid to college and high school players and their families)
Clemson, Kansas, Louisville, Michigan State, South Carolina, Texas, USC, Utah, Wichita State, Xavier"

Reading is hard.
My name...is Jerruh

SemperFi

So, the cheating going on in college basketball has directly impacted the Razorbacks inability to play defense or execute an offense that does not include dribbling the ball around until the clock is winding down and jacking up bad shots. Thanks Joe for that very insightful look into the Razorbacks woes due to all this rampant cheating in college basketball. Brilliant!
Some people wonder all their lives if they've made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem. - Ronald Reagan

Kevin

Quote from: Arkansas Hog in Dallas on February 23, 2018, 01:11:45 pm
Actually wrong. There is evidence of funneling players to schools. http://es.pn/2HI2iyU
Jim Gatto was the guy at the head of it in Adidas.

they have proved one player brian bowen.  but so far, nothing else has come out in the gatto case.

today's information is agent & runner, making payments to players & families. unless, they prove otherwise, there is no connection right now, saying he was trying to steer players to certain schools & coaches.
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

BentonvilleJeff

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 01:39:52 pm
From what I read in the article, it proves they had players that a agent was paying to sign with him after they were out of school. That is far different from the school paying a player to go there.

The New York Post article said impermissible payments were made to them. Tells me that it wasn't a legal payment. I guess we'll see if they're traced back to the school. I bet they can trace it back to them. Just my gut feeling.

steveaustin69

Quote from: SemperFi on February 23, 2018, 01:44:15 pm
So, the cheating going on in college basketball has directly impacted the Razorbacks inability to play defense or execute an offense that does not include dribbling the ball around until the clock is winding down and jacking up bad shots. Thanks Joe for that very insightful look into the Razorbacks woes due to all this rampant cheating in college basketball. Brilliant!

Don't ya know you can only box out if you're getting a little extra on the side. Good on the players for holding out for theirs.

Hawg Red

Quote from: BoarEd on February 23, 2018, 12:07:52 pm
Yes, but said students don't likely have their entire lives taken care of by the university. Every meal, every medical benefit known to man, etc. And the players are already paid on top of all that.

It's ridiculous. If you allowed them to be paid more, it wouldn't solve anything. The best players would still seek to be compensated even more so.

At the end of the day, all of these players, and often their family members as well, sign contracts with the federal government declaring the players are not earning extra money. Except they are. That's fraud.

Except if you made it legal.....which is my point......it won't be fraud.

Also, are you saying that a player who signs a scholarship to play basketball or football signs a contract that says they can't earn income?

steveaustin69

Quote from: Arkansas Hog in Dallas on February 23, 2018, 01:44:14 pm
"Schools named in former ASM Sports employee Christian Dawkins' expense reports (seeking reimbursement for thousands of dollars he paid to college and high school players and their families)
Clemson, Kansas, Louisville, Michigan State, South Carolina, Texas, USC, Utah, Wichita State, Xavier"

Reading is hard.

Where is that quote from?  That is not in this article: https://sports.yahoo.com/exclusive-federal-documents-detail-sweeping-potential-ncaa-violations-involving-high-profile-players-schools-103338484.html

hogsanity

Quote from: BentonvilleJeff on February 23, 2018, 01:46:18 pm


Impermissable just means it is a benefit that a student athlete is not supposed to get. That would be any payment from an agent.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

BoarEd

Quote from: hawganatic on February 23, 2018, 01:08:59 pm
Go back and educate yourself on the issue, opposed to just randomly popping off.  The scandal was a University issue, not an athletics issue.  The NCAA was limited in what they could do.

You also need to educate yourself on the current issue, opposed to just randomly popping off.  There's no indication that teams bought players, yet.  This is a case of an AGENT providing money to players.  Short of the agent funneling the players to certain schools (unlikely considering the number of schools involved), this is not going to be a case of "other teams buying players."

Curious why you feel the need to come on here and make excuses for MA, since you preach on this board so much about how well he is doing here.

The NCAA chose not to go after UNC. Simple as that. Otherwise, how do you explain the NCAA being able to swoop in and sanction Penn State over the Sandusky stuff when it was a criminal case?

The NCAA coukd have punished them for academic fraud. They chose to ACCEPT UNCs explanation, but they didn't have to. Palms were greased.

cram224

Quote from: Jim Harris on February 23, 2018, 11:54:32 am
well, he hasn't ever had the best five players being paid in college basketball so we don't really know that, do we? I think that is crap that people think he's just rolling the ball out there and saying, "Go play." Does he do it DIFFERENTLY that some other coaches? Absolutely. As did Nolan. Some coaches "coach" like you think players should be coached and it holds them and the team down, too.
MA would try and force his way of playing. It's been proven over time his teams play the same rag tag full court no pressure defense. If he had any of the five highest paid players, he would have a true center and possibly a real power forward. They would be wasted because we can't get the ball inside with any regularly. I truly believe a good coach adapts to his personnel not players adapt to the coach. Just look at this year, we have no bench. With his mass sub'ing, at one time in the first half against Ky we had no one in the game that was a scoring threat. Barford and Macon are racking up the minutes, I think they are starting to look worn down from the season. Yet, we will not come out of this so called pressure defense that hasn't effected anybody all year. I just wish he would back off the press and try a more 1/2 court game and he wouldn't depend on a bench that has failed him.

razorpimp

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 10:26:26 am
For those of you that have been whining and crying  about why Mike can't get a Colin Sexton or a other 5 star players to come to Arkansas like Alabama and Auburn are doing. you got your reason.want to know why KY and UNC keep beating Arkansas?you got your answer.want to know why we can't be like were were under Eddie and Nolan.you got your answer.the teams that get the top players do most of the winning.most time the best players will win.Mike and other coaches like him have almost no chance in this system.it's a joke.yet people are screaming fire Mike because he keeps losing to these teams.THESE TEAMS HAVE BEEN BUYING THE BEST PLAYERS!MIKE ANDERSON HAS NOT!college basketball is a joke.Unc,KY KU and Duke will get away with this.nothing will happen.

How could Bret Bielema compete with all of the cheating in college football?  He couldn't and you had no problem calling for his head

hogsanity

Quote from: Hawg Red on February 23, 2018, 01:57:17 pm
Except if you made it legal.....which is my point......it won't be fraud.

Also, are you saying that a player who signs a scholarship to play basketball or football signs a contract that says they can't earn income?

Pretty much. They are limited far more than a person on a academic scholarship. A person on a full ride academically can go to work tomorrow and all they MIGHT lose would be any needs based funding they are receiving. A athlete on a full ride is limited in how much they can work, and where ( as in not sitting at a boosters business for a few hours and getting $100 per just for being there.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

daprospecta

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 11:10:43 am
Home game. Favored. No. No, it wasn't expected.

Agree with second bold. Getting spanked by LSU at home should have been an eye opener for everyone.
Waters I believe is his name was our kryptonite. We swept Kentucky in 2014 and didn't make the tourney. That same Kentucky team lost to UCONN in the national championship. I say that to say our teams problems are not unique and not new to just us.

hobhog


hogsanity

Quote from: razorpimp on February 23, 2018, 02:20:53 pm
How could Bret Bielema compete with all of the cheating in college football?  He couldn't and you had no problem calling for his head

That is a good question. People get on here and rant all the time that Bama/Aub/LSU/A&M are cheating, but then want the coach fired because he can't be those teams.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

cram224

The real question is what will the schools do with the new info they have been given. Should you suspend the named players currently on your roster? Does the conference get involved like the Big Ten did in the tattoo gate and allow the players in the Sugar Bowl?


steveaustin69

Quote from: Arkansas Hog in Dallas on February 23, 2018, 02:41:28 pm
It's in the ESPN article I linked

That "article" is a synopsis of the Yahoo article. 

"The following teams were mentioned in Yahoo!'s report. Other teams such as Auburn, Arizona and Oklahoma State were implicated when the original charges came out last September."

The Yahoo article has no direct links between schools and paying players.

Reading, indeed, is hard.

HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: forrest city joe on February 23, 2018, 12:49:02 pm
And Notice one thing. it's not 5 or more.and notice during those times we won a NC,went to final fours,E-8,sweet 16? this game for the most part about who has the best talent.and other teams are cheating to get that kind of talent.Mike is not.be thankful he is our coach.

Yes, talent wins. We had talent from 1985-1995, and won a lot because of that. It's a simple formula.
So that means Nolan was cheating. Obviously, because anyone who gets good recruits is due to cheating. That is your own logic.

I don't believe that.

I believe Nolan was a good recruiter, especially from 1985-1995, and MA isn't.
Players wanted to play for Nolan at one time, and he was recruiting hard. They don't want to play for Mike.

That's what I'm saying. 1)Cheating has gone on forever  2)not all recruiting successes is due to cheating. Some coaches are just better than others


forrest city joe

Quote from: SemperFi on February 23, 2018, 01:44:15 pm
So, the cheating going on in college basketball has directly impacted the Razorbacks inability to play defense or execute an offense that does not include dribbling the ball around until the clock is winding down and jacking up bad shots. Thanks Joe for that very insightful look into the Razorbacks woes due to all this rampant cheating in college basketball. Brilliant!
It's about players.the team with the best players will do most of the winning.all the other stuff is down the list.notice how the so call great coaches who win championships,also have the best players?wake up,it''s not that hard.

kaiserhog

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 01:25:12 pm
Which is why I have said, REPEATEDLY, the evidence RELEASED to this point, does not show schools directing payments to get these players to sign with them. For all I know they may have a wire tapped conversation between Crapilari, Coach K, and Izzo where all three are dividing up players among themselves. As of now though it is all an agent paying players to retain them as clients after they are done with school.
You have just been shown as wrong.

Boardon Hamsay

This thread has more potential than anything in jump ball over the last decade.
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kaiserhog

Agents paying the money gives schools deniability.  If only one assistant is shown to have participated, the university involved is still culpable.  One has to be extremely naive to believe this just the work of a few rouge assistants and agents.  Players are instantly ineligible because they lose their amateur status.

steveaustin69

Quote from: kaiserhog on February 23, 2018, 03:10:50 pm
Agents paying the money gives schools deniability.  If only one assistant is shown to have participated, the university involved is still culpable.  One has to be extremely naive to believe this just the work of a few rouge assistants and agents.  Players are instantly ineligible because they lose their amateur status.

Doubt anyone is naive enough to believe players don't get paid.

There's rarely a direct link to the school.

It doesn't matter if you can't prove it.