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I have lived Razorback Basketball since I was in High School

Started by Lanny, November 18, 2009, 08:12:20 pm

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LRMedHawg

November 18, 2009, 10:18:18 pm #50
Quote from: ErieHog on November 18, 2009, 10:08:42 pm
Gotten us into the NCAA tournament for the only time in the last decade; gotten us our only tournament win of the last decade;  replaced 10 of the 12 scholarship slots, and managed to break up the 7 scholarships-coming free every 4th year logjam;  demanded academic accountability to the point of putting players down who didn't have their academic houses in order....

Those would be major, major things that he's done, that the previous administrations were either incapable of  doing or unwilling to do.

The thing I do give him credit for (and am happy that he has done) is by beginning to even out classes, although we did lose 4 (maybe 5) of our last 6 of last years class.

He did not get us into the NCAA tourny for the only time in the last decade.  That is simply wrong.  He did get our only win, but it was with Stan's players against a team that was in shambles due to Sampson.  Heath could have won that game.

As far at the academic thing, well I just dont know about that yet.  Many of the players he brought in have struggled mightly and cost us in the APR.  I say overall though that academically he is a push.

ErieHog

November 18, 2009, 10:19:30 pm #51 Last Edit: November 18, 2009, 10:23:18 pm by ErieHog
Quote from: LRMedHawg on November 18, 2009, 10:18:18 pm
The thing I do give him credit for (and am happy that he has done) is by beginning to even out classes, although we did lose 4 (maybe 5) of our last 6 of last years class.

He did not get us into the NCAA tourny for the only time in the last decade.  That is simply wrong.  He did get our only win, but it was with Stan's players against a team that was in shambles due to Sampson.  Heath could have won that game.

As far at the academic thing, well I just dont know about that yet.  Many of the players he brought in have struggled mightly and cost us in the APR.  I say overall though that academically he is a push.

Ah, true.  I forgot the great Heath team that lost a first rounder.     Heath couldn't win a tournament game with that roster.

The problem with the APR predates Pelphrey significantly;  the precipitous fall in our APR score is not due to the three kids he's had who didn't work out-- it was the Gang of 6 scholarship players who signed with Heath and who mostly essentially quit school after the Tournament under Pel,  who have ultimately crushed our APR,  despite it's previously abysmally low standing for a major conference team--- and that problem goes back deep into the Heath Era, to the beginning of APR class tracking.

We'll see a slight hit from the transfers in our APR calculations following this year, and 2010, but they aren't the smoking crater that we have, courtesy of Heath.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."
 

40MINSOFHELL

November 18, 2009, 10:20:10 pm #52
Quote from: ErieHog on November 18, 2009, 10:19:30 pm
Ah, true.  I forgot the great Heath team that lost a first rounder.  

Didn't we get stomped by a mid major?

PoormansRobbyHampton

November 18, 2009, 10:21:36 pm #53
Quote from: 40MINSOFPEL on November 18, 2009, 08:42:34 pm
Mike Anderson can't even out recruit our curent coach. We don't need him..

But he'd coach circles around him.

mathhog

November 18, 2009, 10:21:45 pm #54
Hater's plan

1. This season is shot! (because we're 1-1, and lost to last year's overall #1 seed away from fayetteville)

2. so Fire Pel now! (because nothing attracts recruits like having 5 coaches (including 2 interims) in 9 seasons)

3. we need someone who can recruit (even though marshawn powell, farmer, rotnei, fortson, etc. were all highly rated)

4. and need someone like mike anderson (even though mike can't recruit at mizzou, and couldnt recruit here, which is why nolan was pressured to start ranting about slave ships anyway)

5. we shouldn't be afraid to open the pocketbook, we are ARKANSAS (even though that calling card wasn't good enough for billyG, calipari, bill self, and had dana altman run home after 1 day, enduring national humiliation because he didnt want to stay here)

6. i mean after all, we got petrino in FB, let jeff long do his magic (even though jeff long actually offered the job to magical Jim Grobe, and magical Bowden son #2, and magical Tommy T, and was able to land one of the few nfl coaches to quit mid-season)

7. we don't have that high expectations even, pel couldn't even meet the basics (even though he won our first NCAA game since the 90s, and won more games 2 years ago than stan ever did, and more games than nolan ever did after the final four runs)

8. it's obvious pel can't coach (because we only had 6 players, a golfer, and a quarterback playing against a pressing team that, again, was the overall #1 seed last year)

9. and frankly, pel can't control his players (because he suspends them all the time, i guess he shouldn't discipline them?)

10. so, basically, enough is enough! (even though the past 15 years have been awful in hog basketball, these past 2 games - including breaking 40 year old scoring records - have put me over the top, before i've even seen some of the new additions play 1 minute of ball.  clearly, it's time NOW)

PoormansRobbyHampton

November 18, 2009, 10:22:48 pm #55
Quote from: 40MINSOFPEL on November 18, 2009, 10:20:10 pm
Didn't we get stomped by a mid major?

I think we lost by five to a team that beat Kansas the year before.

dhornjr1

November 18, 2009, 10:23:10 pm #56
Quote from: ErieHog on November 18, 2009, 10:19:30 pm
Ah, true.  I forgot the great Heath team that lost a first rounder.  

Actually, Heath was embarrassed twice in the first round.

Bucknell and Southern Cal.

ErieHog

November 18, 2009, 10:31:15 pm #57
Quote from: 40MINSOFPEL on November 18, 2009, 10:20:10 pm
Didn't we get stomped by a mid major?

We went twice.   We got curbstomped by USC, in perhaps the least inspired game in the history of Arkansas tournament history.

We lost a first round tournament game to the Patriot League champion Bucknell Bison--  one of only 2 wins for the Patriot League in their decade-long history in the NCAA tournament.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

LRMedHawg

November 18, 2009, 10:32:08 pm #58
Quote from: ErieHog on November 18, 2009, 10:19:30 pm
Ah, true.  I forgot the great Heath team that lost a first rounder.     Heath couldn't win a tournament game with that roster.

The problem with the APR predates Pelphrey significantly;  the precipitous fall in our APR score is not due to the three kids he's had who didn't work out-- it was the Gang of 6 scholarship players who signed with Heath and who mostly essentially quit school after the Tournament under Pel,  who have ultimately crushed our APR,  despite it's previously abysmally low standing for a major conference team--- and that problem goes back deep into the Heath Era, to the beginning of APR class tracking.

We'll see a slight hit from the transfers in our APR calculations following this year, and 2010, but they aren't the smoking crater that we have, courtesy of Heath.


It is due to both of them.  I just am not going to let Pel off the hook for everything.

ErieHog

November 18, 2009, 10:36:36 pm #59
Quote from: LRMedHawg on November 18, 2009, 10:32:08 pm
It is due to both of them.  I just am not going to let Pel off the hook for everything.

The blame for it is overwhelmingly on Heath.   Yes, Pel went out on a limb with his three failures, but would never have been in a position to have to take those kinds of gambles, if we hadn't had the ridiculous imbalance in scholarships.

When your choices are to either play a season with Britt, a walk on and a golfer as your backups at the 2 and 3,  you are going to be a little more flexible about getting people in to try and address the immediate needs.

Pel should be admonished for McDonald,  should be warned off of recruits like Henry who are the kind of reaches that we just can't afford, and should be reminded that even a decent kid with a different inclination like Clarke,  if they can't cut the mustard, need to be avoided.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

HawgAdvocate

November 18, 2009, 10:36:45 pm #60
Quote from: Razorod on November 18, 2009, 09:56:35 pm
i wouldn't rag anderson's recruiting this season, especially when compared to pel's. telep has mizzou at #16 and the hogs didn't even make the best of the rest category.

Without Pressey he wouldn't be ranked at all. If he hadn't played with Paul, he'd have no shot with Phil. Much like another coach we all know, Anderson makes the most out of his "friends & family" hookup (Carroll included), but has shown he can't recruit studs otherwise.
"The supreme benevolent force of Hogville, who is impervious to pervasive form of confirmation bias, which is inherent to ALL human beings" - intelligence 4/4/16
***
I used to argue with HA about how Pel ran the basketball team.  I've since learned to like and respect him.  In fact, I'd go as far to say that HA is well connected or extremely perceptive. - Porkatarian, 11/7/12

mathhog

November 18, 2009, 10:37:35 pm #61
Quote from: HawgAdvocate on November 18, 2009, 10:36:45 pm
Without Pressey he wouldn't be ranked at all. If he hadn't played with Paul, he'd have no shot with Phil. Much like another coach we all know, Anderson makes the most out of his "friends & family" hookup (Carroll included), but has shown he can't recruit studs otherwise.

Hope TJ Cleveland has lotsa younger brothers soon, otherwise Mike A is in for some reecruiting troubles!!!!!

dhornjr1

November 18, 2009, 10:39:20 pm #62
Quote from: mathhog on November 18, 2009, 10:37:35 pm
Hope TJ Cleveland has lotsa younger brothers soon, otherwise Mike A is in for some reecruiting troubles!!!!!

Does Lee Mayberry have any kids high school age or close?
 

40MINSOFHELL

November 18, 2009, 10:39:35 pm #63
Quote from: mathhog on November 18, 2009, 10:37:35 pm
Hope TJ Cleveland has lotsa younger brothers soon, otherwise Mike A is in for some reecruiting troubles!!!!!

LOOOL

ErieHog

November 18, 2009, 10:42:10 pm #64
Quote from: dhornjr1 on November 18, 2009, 10:39:20 pm
Does Lee Mayberry have any kids high school age or close?

I know his daughter is going to play college basketball.  Short of a trip to Sweden, I don't think they'll be giving Anderson any help.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

HawgAdvocate

November 18, 2009, 10:42:11 pm #65
Quote from: PoormansRobbyHampton on November 18, 2009, 10:21:36 pm
But he'd coach circles around him.

We'll see about that. He didn't coach that well his first two seasons at Missouri. He better be one hell of  a coach this season if he wants to make up for the lack of star talent on his team in year four at Missouri.

They beat the 8-man squad that (juggernaut) UT-Martin brought to Columbia. But they shot 4-21 from three, winning by 15, despite forcing 23 TOs.
"The supreme benevolent force of Hogville, who is impervious to pervasive form of confirmation bias, which is inherent to ALL human beings" - intelligence 4/4/16
***
I used to argue with HA about how Pel ran the basketball team.  I've since learned to like and respect him.  In fact, I'd go as far to say that HA is well connected or extremely perceptive. - Porkatarian, 11/7/12

dhornjr1

November 18, 2009, 10:42:53 pm #66
Quote from: ErieHog on November 18, 2009, 10:42:10 pm
I know his daughter is going to play college basketball.  Short of a trip to Sweden, I don't think they'll be giving Anderson any help.

LOL

So, no boys then?

ErieHog

November 18, 2009, 10:46:24 pm #67
Quote from: dhornjr1 on November 18, 2009, 10:42:53 pm
LOL

So, no boys then?

I think he may have one in junior high.  I know they live in the Tulsa area, and I think his daughter played at Tulsa-Washington and has either signed a LOI or is a freshman somewhere this year.   It's been a while since I read the Mayberry story.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

dhornjr1

November 18, 2009, 10:51:51 pm #68
Quote from: ErieHog on November 18, 2009, 10:46:24 pm
I think he may have one in junior high.  I know they live in the Tulsa area, and I think his daughter played at Tulsa-Washington and has either signed a LOI or is a freshman somewhere this year.   It's been a while since I read the Mayberry story.

I wonder if players like Oliver Miller, Dwight Stewart, etc. would rather send their kids to play for Anderson at Missouri than have them come to Arkansas.

The_Iceman

November 18, 2009, 10:59:28 pm #69
Quote from: mathhog on November 18, 2009, 10:21:45 pm
Hater's plan

1. This season is shot! (because we're 1-1, and lost to last year's overall #1 seed away from fayetteville)

2. so Fire Pel now! (because nothing attracts recruits like having 5 coaches (including 2 interims) in 9 seasons)

3. we need someone who can recruit (even though marshawn powell, farmer, rotnei, fortson, etc. were all highly rated)

4. and need someone like mike anderson (even though mike can't recruit at mizzou, and couldnt recruit here, which is why nolan was pressured to start ranting about slave ships anyway)

5. we shouldn't be afraid to open the pocketbook, we are ARKANSAS (even though that calling card wasn't good enough for billyG, calipari, bill self, and had dana altman run home after 1 day, enduring national humiliation because he didnt want to stay here)

6. i mean after all, we got petrino in FB, let jeff long do his magic (even though jeff long actually offered the job to magical Jim Grobe, and magical Bowden son #2, and magical Tommy T, and was able to land one of the few nfl coaches to quit mid-season)

7. we don't have that high expectations even, pel couldn't even meet the basics (even though he won our first NCAA game since the 90s, and won more games 2 years ago than stan ever did, and more games than nolan ever did after the final four runs)

8. it's obvious pel can't coach (because we only had 6 players, a golfer, and a quarterback playing against a pressing team that, again, was the overall #1 seed last year)

9. and frankly, pel can't control his players (because he suspends them all the time, i guess he shouldn't discipline them?)

10. so, basically, enough is enough! (even though the past 15 years have been awful in hog basketball, these past 2 games - including breaking 40 year old scoring records - have put me over the top, before i've even seen some of the new additions play 1 minute of ball.  clearly, it's time NOW)


Post of the Week! +1000000 if I could.

jman

November 18, 2009, 11:55:21 pm #70
Amen brother......this has gone on for way too long.  We've gone from Penthouse to Outhouse and it stinks!
Quote from: Lanny on November 18, 2009, 08:12:20 pm
I would arrange my nights to watch Razorback Basketball.  The Heath hire was a bad hire, going after Altman was terrible.  This all falls back to BAC believing Billy Clyde was coming to Arkansas and firing Heath without a plan B.  As the owner of this site, I try to keep most of my opinions to myself but I am unhappy with the direction of this program.  I have no problem with you guys posting your opinions but I have remained quite for to long over a program I have followed.  There is no way I will accept a program that wins 2 conference games or watch this team have a swinging door for players. 

Enough is enough

mizzouman

November 19, 2009, 07:56:06 am #71
Quote from: Lanny on November 18, 2009, 08:12:20 pm
I would arrange my nights to watch Razorback Basketball.  The Heath hire was a bad hire, going after Altman was terrible.  This all falls back to BAC believing Billy Clyde was coming to Arkansas and firing Heath without a plan B.  As the owner of this site, I try to keep most of my opinions to myself but I am unhappy with the direction of this program.  I have no problem with you guys posting your opinions but I have remained quite for to long over a program I have followed.  There is no way I will accept a program that wins 2 conference games or watch this team have a swinging door for players. 

Enough is enough

OK, what's the answer then????

GBoling5000

November 19, 2009, 08:39:10 am #72
Quote from: mathhog on November 18, 2009, 10:21:45 pm
Hater's plan

1. This season is shot! (because we're 1-1, and lost to last year's overall #1 seed away from fayetteville)

2. so Fire Pel now! (because nothing attracts recruits like having 5 coaches (including 2 interims) in 9 seasons)

3. we need someone who can recruit (even though marshawn powell, farmer, rotnei, fortson, etc. were all highly rated)

4. and need someone like mike anderson (even though mike can't recruit at mizzou, and couldnt recruit here, which is why nolan was pressured to start ranting about slave ships anyway)

5. we shouldn't be afraid to open the pocketbook, we are ARKANSAS (even though that calling card wasn't good enough for billyG, calipari, bill self, and had dana altman run home after 1 day, enduring national humiliation because he didnt want to stay here)

6. i mean after all, we got petrino in FB, let jeff long do his magic (even though jeff long actually offered the job to magical Jim Grobe, and magical Bowden son #2, and magical Tommy T, and was able to land one of the few nfl coaches to quit mid-season)

7. we don't have that high expectations even, pel couldn't even meet the basics (even though he won our first NCAA game since the 90s, and won more games 2 years ago than stan ever did, and more games than nolan ever did after the final four runs)

8. it's obvious pel can't coach (because we only had 6 players, a golfer, and a quarterback playing against a pressing team that, again, was the overall #1 seed last year)

9. and frankly, pel can't control his players (because he suspends them all the time, i guess he shouldn't discipline them?)

10. so, basically, enough is enough! (even though the past 15 years have been awful in hog basketball, these past 2 games - including breaking 40 year old scoring records - have put me over the top, before i've even seen some of the new additions play 1 minute of ball.  clearly, it's time NOW)

Mathhog, thank you.

Corkscrew Johnson

November 19, 2009, 08:47:59 am #73
If the guy's name isn't Bill Self, the hiring of a Big 12 coach would be a lateral move at best.  I want to do whatever is in the best interest of Razorback basketball, but a change for the sake of change is not wise.
 

SECGUY

November 19, 2009, 08:49:45 am #74
Quote from: The Boar War on November 18, 2009, 10:08:57 pm
You support Pelphrey (in part) because Petrino didn't beat Houston Nutt?

If Pelphrey came to us from the NBA, had the same winning percentage that Petrino had as a college coach, brought in a 5-star player, and showed consistent growth throughout the season these situations might be comparable.
I support them both completely. My point is people want Pel out because he isn't winning and the guy that replaced Hootie can't beat him.  As for coming from the pros, when the going got tough CBP bailed. You can't compare the two coaches or two sports. What is sickening is Pel is trying to fix the problem. Yes, he did recruit these players. He made a mistake, realizes it, but would you rather have a coach that says "alleged rape isn't that bad, being a cancer on the team is acceptable and not following team policies"is okay as long as we win? He can't fix it this season.

mizzouman

November 19, 2009, 09:07:31 am #75
Quote from: Corkscrew Johnson on November 19, 2009, 08:47:59 am
If the guy's name isn't Bill Self, the hiring of a Big 12 coach would be a lateral move at best. 

Interesting quote.  So, you are saying that if Arkansas hired, lets say Barnes from Texas, that going from Texas and Big 12 basketball to Arkansas and SEC basketbal would be a lateral move for Barnes?

Interesting.

The Boar War

November 19, 2009, 09:13:11 am #76
Quote from: SECGUY on November 19, 2009, 08:49:45 am
I support them both completely. My point is people want Pel out because he isn't winning and the guy that replaced Hootie can't beat him.  As for coming from the pros, when the going got tough CBP bailed. You can't compare the two coaches or two sports. What is sickening is Pel is trying to fix the problem. Yes, he did recruit these players. He made a mistake, realizes it, but would you rather have a coach that says "alleged rape isn't that bad, being a cancer on the team is acceptable and not following team policies"is okay as long as we win? He can't fix it this season.

That was my point all along.

I would rather have a coach that doesn't recruit questionable student athletes.  If he does recruit that type of athlete I would like a coach who knows how to either deter or effectively punish those kids when they do wrong.  Don't get me wrong Pelphrey has recruited some quality kids.  We will know whether or not he can punish effectively a few weeks after the suspended players are back.

We need to realize that having to punish kids for putting themselves in a situation where alleged rape can occur is not the norm.

tbhogfan

November 19, 2009, 09:29:50 am #77
We need a head coach who can and will return us to the glory days between 1976 and 2002.   

We need an administration that is determined to free up whatever $$$$ is needed to get us there. 

We need to return to the days when we were unhappy with a 4 seed in the tourney, and where trips at least to the Sweet 16 were expected.

The mediocrity, the malaise amongst the fan base, the inability to dole out discipline without losing ballgames in the process must stop.   The current state of our program is unacceptable. 

Go Hogs!

HawgAdvocate

November 19, 2009, 09:37:58 am #78
Quote from: mizzouman on November 19, 2009, 09:07:31 am
Interesting quote.  So, you are saying that if Arkansas hired, lets say Barnes from Texas, that going from Texas and Big 12 basketball to Arkansas and SEC basketbal would be a lateral move for Barnes?

Interesting.

I think he's talking more of just the guys with Arkansas connections (Self, Anderson, Sadler).
"The supreme benevolent force of Hogville, who is impervious to pervasive form of confirmation bias, which is inherent to ALL human beings" - intelligence 4/4/16
***
I used to argue with HA about how Pel ran the basketball team.  I've since learned to like and respect him.  In fact, I'd go as far to say that HA is well connected or extremely perceptive. - Porkatarian, 11/7/12

sitting out

November 19, 2009, 09:50:41 am #79
Does anyone remember what the graduation rate was duting Nolan's tenure? I have heard or read that it was at or near 0%. Thankfully, the APR wasn't a factor back then.

mizzouman

November 19, 2009, 10:00:59 am #80
Quote from: HawgAdvocate on November 19, 2009, 09:37:58 am
I think he's talking more of just the guys with Arkansas connections (Self, Anderson, Sadler).

Gotcha.  I understand the obvious connection with Anderson and Sadler, but what connection does Self have with Arkansas?

HawgAdvocate

November 19, 2009, 10:12:08 am #81
Quote from: mizzouman on November 19, 2009, 10:00:59 am
Gotcha.  I understand the obvious connection with Anderson and Sadler, but what connection does Self have with Arkansas?

Being an assistant to Eddie Sutton, his wife's family is in Tulsa, and being a finalist for the job with Heath after Nolan left. Not as grand as the other two, but still connections.
"The supreme benevolent force of Hogville, who is impervious to pervasive form of confirmation bias, which is inherent to ALL human beings" - intelligence 4/4/16
***
I used to argue with HA about how Pel ran the basketball team.  I've since learned to like and respect him.  In fact, I'd go as far to say that HA is well connected or extremely perceptive. - Porkatarian, 11/7/12

1highhog

November 19, 2009, 11:13:31 am #82
If you, Lanny, don't think that firing a Coach after only 3 seasons will turn away a-lot of Coaches, your sadly mistaken.

swinesation

November 19, 2009, 11:23:35 am #83
Quote from: forrest city joe on November 18, 2009, 09:04:07 pm
I love it. Lanny im with you 100% on this. there is nothing that can be done now until the end of the season.so i hope im wrong and this thing turns around. would love to see us make the NCAA's this year. i dont mind one bit being wrong if it means the hawgs are winning. i want all the excuses for losing gone. i want to see the hawgs winning.PERIOD!

Wow Lanny, a ringing endorsement from forrest city joe. You must be proud. Now if you can just get batmanfan behind you...

SECGUY

November 19, 2009, 11:34:31 am #84
This all goes back to the way the Nolan situation was handled. Let's face facts. After certain allegations, we went with a "safe hire" in Stan Heath. Spent multiple years in the basement. The Altman one night stand was embarrassing. We are very lucky to have Pelphrey. We are at least another 2 years from being competitive.

As for his recruiting, I think that if Pelphrey would remove 2 assistants, not Coach Evans, but any other 2 he'd improve his stock. The assistants are the ones going after Fortson type players. Welsh is a left over from the past mistake. This problem will not be solved today or even this season. Firing Pelphrey would put Razorback basketball on the same level with the Sun Belt.

Corkscrew Johnson

November 19, 2009, 01:26:43 pm #85
Quote from: mizzouman on November 19, 2009, 09:07:31 am
Interesting quote.  So, you are saying that if Arkansas hired, lets say Barnes from Texas, that going from Texas and Big 12 basketball to Arkansas and SEC basketbal would be a lateral move for Barnes?

Interesting.

Interesting...insinuation you made.  This thread has nothing to do with comparing the state of programs.  It has to do with the quality of coaches and their ability to bring about the immediate impact that some of our fans are expecting (and that I would desire if we made a coaching change).  Anyone outside of Bill Self from the Big 12 would be another gamble, whether it's because of age, inexperience, or recruiting prowess, and I don't feel like waiting around another 3-4 years to see how the next coach pans out. I would hope we had something more palatable lined up...

bvillepig

November 19, 2009, 08:21:06 pm #86
I support the U of A.
For all of you putting your eggs in Pells basket what makes any of you think a .500 Sun Belt coach is going to put the U of A back on the basketball map.

I have not seen enough in three years to get me excited.  Please somebody educate me.

ge-erdone

November 19, 2009, 09:34:02 pm #87
Quote from: fuzion1 on November 18, 2009, 08:54:46 pm
Arkansas was and still is a top program in basketball.  Do not sell ourselves short.  We will get a good coach.  All we have to do is fork over the cash.

Yep, just ask the Notre Dame people.  All it takes is cash.

ge-erdone

November 19, 2009, 09:49:19 pm #88 Last Edit: November 19, 2009, 10:40:17 pm by ge-erdone
Quote from: ErieHog on November 18, 2009, 10:19:30 pm
Ah, true.  I forgot the great Heath team that lost a first rounder.     Heath couldn't win a tournament game with that roster.

The problem with the APR predates Pelphrey significantly;  the precipitous fall in our APR score is not due to the three kids he's had who didn't work out-- it was the Gang of 6 scholarship players who signed with Heath and who mostly essentially quit school after the Tournament under Pel,  who have ultimately crushed our APR,  despite it's previously abysmally low standing for a major conference team--- and that problem goes back deep into the Heath Era, to the beginning of APR class tracking.

We'll see a slight hit from the transfers in our APR calculations following this year, and 2010, but they aren't the smoking crater that we have, courtesy of Heath.

Yep, and the team that beat us that year, had fans at the game holding up signs that they do not even give out athletic scholarships.

Tuition costs, signs stated, were $40,000 a year.

Bucknell, that is.

YABBBUF

November 20, 2009, 12:05:38 am #89
Anyone remember what Nolan's record was here his 1st 2 years?  Just asking.
You are welcome Slacker.

ArkieBrat

November 20, 2009, 02:36:43 am #90
Quote from: YABBBUF on November 20, 2009, 12:05:38 am
Anyone remember what Nolan's record was here his 1st 2 years?  Just asking.
Conf.
1985-1986 Arkansas   12-16      4-12   7th None
1986-1987 Arkansas   19-14      8-8     5th NIT 2nd Round
1987-1988 Arkansas   21-9      11-5     T-2nd NCAA 1st Round
1988-1989 Arkansas   25-7      13-3     1st NCAA 2nd Round
1989-1990 Arkansas   30-5      14-2     1st NCAA Final Four
1990-1991 Arkansas   34-4      15-1     1st NCAA Elite 8
1991-1992 Arkansas   26-8      13-3     1st NCAA 2nd Round
1992-1993 Arkansas   22-9      10-6     1st (West) NCAA Sweet 16
1993-1994 Arkansas   31-3      14-2     1st NCAA Champion
1994-1995 Arkansas   32-7      12-4     T-1st (West) NCAA Runner-Up
1995-1996 Arkansas   20-13      9-7     T-2nd (West) NCAA Sweet 16
1996-1997 Arkansas   18-14      8-8     2nd (West) NIT Final Four
1997-1998 Arkansas   24-9      11-5     2nd (West) NCAA 2nd Round
1998-1999 Arkansas   23-11      9-7     2nd (West) NCAA 2nd Round
1999-2000 Arkansas   19-15      7-9     3rd (West) NCAA 1st Round
2000-2001 Arkansas   20-11    10-6     2nd (West) NCAA 1st Round
2001-2002 Arkansas   14-15      6-10   T-4th (West) None
My all time Razorback favs.....

1. 1969 Shootout (Longhorns 'n Hogs football)
2.  Great Alaska Shootout under Eddie Sutton
3.  Orange Bowl CLASSIC under the Great Lou
4.  Rollin w/Nolan AND the '94 NC
5.  Being able to see Nolan and Company at the Aloha Classic in Honolulu (Dec '94) & all of us breaking bread together at a luau, & watching Nolan do the hula after being called onstage. AWESOME!  It doesn't get any better than that.

ArkieBrat

November 20, 2009, 02:56:22 am #91
Even tho I lived in Texas I watched every Razorback game that I could.  I never lost my Hog roots.  I don't care what anyone says the Nolan years were special.  My most unforgettable experience was the trip to the Aloha Classic in Honolulu after winning the championship.  I met my sister at the Little Rock airport.  That was a very fun flight as booster members, Arkansas press/media, Paul Eels were traveling also.  I am thinking we left on Christmas day (or Christmas Eve) and returned on New Years day.  We met wonderful people and participated in fabulous planned activities.  Of course we had admittance to all of the BB games.  It was such a great time.

On a side note:  Eddie Suttons tenure was special also; he was the one that put Arkansas BB on the map.  If it had not been for Sutton there might not have been a Richardson hire which = No Championship season.
My all time Razorback favs.....

1. 1969 Shootout (Longhorns 'n Hogs football)
2.  Great Alaska Shootout under Eddie Sutton
3.  Orange Bowl CLASSIC under the Great Lou
4.  Rollin w/Nolan AND the '94 NC
5.  Being able to see Nolan and Company at the Aloha Classic in Honolulu (Dec '94) & all of us breaking bread together at a luau, & watching Nolan do the hula after being called onstage. AWESOME!  It doesn't get any better than that.

ErieHog

November 20, 2009, 04:53:03 am #92
31-30.

By contrast, Pel is 38-30.  This isn't to say he's in Nolan's league, but simply illustrates that rebuilding takes time.

Before you get all upset, remember that Nolan inherited a better program than Pel;  the Hogs had lost the same 30 games in the *4* years prior to Nolan's arrival,  and had won 4 tournament games in the same period (the four losses in subsequent tournament games happened by a combined 8 points), twice achieving Top 10 rankings, and another season with a #12 ranking,  won a conference title, and finished #2 in the conference 3 times.

Do I wish it was 1994 again?  Yes.  I simply remember 1986 and 1987 too well to expect it tomorrow.
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

sigpooie

November 20, 2009, 05:28:36 am #93
Bravo Mathhog
I started under Lanny and Martin, then went to the triplets (playing in the dirt at the barn, standing behind Dave woodman making faces on the one or two games that would make it to TV) and thought Nolan was and should go down and a #1 coach of his time.
That said : Pelf is the way we have always wanted to go. Good at the game and finds away to get very good players to look at the hill.
We under Nolan sold out to take 4 kids from two great AAu teams along with 2 other studs in the same year thanks to grades and early exits by day and miller and some of the others from those teams. That move helped us put a champs banner up, but it put us in a all or none mode for kids every 3 to 4 years. Heath was afraid to brake the cycle, but Pelf was not. If we want to go back to the top and stay there we have to take our meds.
This is what has always bugged me about why even under Nolan that we could not stay around the top every year like duke ky and others. Pelf is turning us in that direction. So it will take 2 to 3 more years to drop in place. But the 2011 kids sound like a triplets type of move, that Pelf could use to  keep us in place by 2012.
So Put your hands on the keyboard with me and pray " Ole Lord, Please O Please bring us some of that:"
Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride! Hunter "my buddy" Thompson

ArkieBrat

November 20, 2009, 05:47:52 am #94
Quote from: ErieHog on November 20, 2009, 04:53:03 am
31-30.

By contrast, Pel is 38-30.  This isn't to say he's in Nolan's league, but simply illustrates that rebuilding takes time.

Before you get all upset, remember that Nolan inherited a better program than Pel;  the Hogs had lost the same 30 games in the *4* years prior to Nolan's arrival,  and had won 4 tournament games in the same period (the four losses in subsequent tournament games happened by a combined 8 points), twice achieving Top 10 rankings, and another season with a #12 ranking,  won a conference title, and finished #2 in the conference 3 times.

Do I wish it was 1994 again?  Yes.  I simply remember 1986 and 1987 too well to expect it tomorrow.

Oh goodness, I also remember 1986/1987.  It was not pretty.  I, like most fans, did not realize that the landscape of BB was changing.  Nolan came in with fast paced up/down court and those players were completely out of sync.  I was visiting my family when the 1st game was played under Nolan.  We were furious! LOL  We strongly thought that our BB program had gone to he!! in a breadbasket.  After all these years I still remember the frustration b/c most times it looked as though these players had never dribbled a ball, let alone be able to make a shot. 

Building a program takes time.  With Pel, my main concern are the x's and o's.  As we get farther into the season should tell us quite a lot.  I am not smart enough to know whether Pel should be fired or not as there are always the intangibles.  I will leave that up to Jeff Long. 
My all time Razorback favs.....

1. 1969 Shootout (Longhorns 'n Hogs football)
2.  Great Alaska Shootout under Eddie Sutton
3.  Orange Bowl CLASSIC under the Great Lou
4.  Rollin w/Nolan AND the '94 NC
5.  Being able to see Nolan and Company at the Aloha Classic in Honolulu (Dec '94) & all of us breaking bread together at a luau, & watching Nolan do the hula after being called onstage. AWESOME!  It doesn't get any better than that.

Corkscrew Johnson

November 20, 2009, 08:30:21 am #95
After this season, people should have a much better basis to judge Pel. 

To do so based on his first season (a frontcourt heavy team with mediocre talent that was designed for Big 10 basketball) or his second season (a full roster replacement, leaning heavily on freshmen and former role players) is pretty ignorant.

Oklahoma Diamond Hog

November 20, 2009, 09:00:34 am #96
Some of what I am reading on this post is really depressing. I can't believe some of you are true fans. There is no way I am even thinking about Pelphrey's job until this season is over and we see how he is doing landing those recruits.

2 games guys...pathetic.

Really, our best player, everyone says, is Washington. He is good no doubt, but come on he isn't the 3rd or 4th best on Louisville.

Support the coach, the program, the AD, the school and the state...please stop the complaining.

elksnort

November 20, 2009, 09:01:19 am #97
The Razorbacks need to win 7-9 games in conference and make the NIT for me to think that Pelphrey ought to remain as coach.

If Pelphrey can not go about .500 in conference and get an NIT bid then Jeff Long should replace him.

Enough of this "They will not be able to get a good coach if they fire Pelphrey after only 3 years" stuff.

Lando Calrissian

November 20, 2009, 09:01:47 am #98
Quote from: Oklahoma Diamond Hog
Support the coach, the program, the AD, the school and the state...please stop the complaining.

Ok.
Quote from: Breems

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haGfGkX-MbA&feature=youtube_gdata

Quote from: HawgBallLvrKentucky would be in the same position right now at #1 even with Pel as their HC.

Quote from: IronHogJohn Stockton wouldn't sniff today's NBA.

Quote from: jacksonpollackEvery time I look around in BWA I get dizzy. It is hard to judge the capacity. During the Auburn game I tried to count all the people in attendance but got lost at around 30,000.

elksnort

November 20, 2009, 09:07:31 am #99
Quote from: Lando Calrissian on November 20, 2009, 09:01:47 am
Ok.
Yes, we'll all get right to this.

Has anyone figured out this is a message board?

Note: Not responding to your post Lando, the one to which you repsonded.
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