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We are still an 8 seed in CBS bracketology

Started by checkraiser88, February 21, 2018, 07:20:53 pm

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steveaustin69

Quote from: razorback1829 on February 23, 2018, 12:15:11 am
It's pretty clear you only got on here to post about Chris Beard. We do this every year with the next hottest coach. It's laughable. MA is a proven winner, and if you want Beard so bad, be a Tech fan. You're obviously not a Hog one. Seems simple, no?

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 22, 2018, 11:30:58 pm
You need defense to win a championship.  I don't believe that is your end goal as you are clearly thrilled with (maybe) 3 tourney appearances in 7 years.

Giving up high percentage looks is fine if you can consistently turn the ball over. We do not consistently turn teams over. Wanna know what we're ranked in turnovers forced? 91st. Another high pressure team that gives up a high 3pt fg pct is West Virginia. Wanna know what they rank? 9th. They also rank 150 spots higher than us in PPG allowed;  the discrepancy in those is the difference between a close win or close loss.

Don't you think maybe, just maybe, if we played half decent defense Mike would have a few more of your precious wins?

Care to address?

razorback1829

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 08:31:16 am
Care to address?

And I know you really don't know squat about basketball now.. you keep posting stats as if stats are the only factor in the whole game. Let me ask you this since it's been addressed, have you ever done anything in basketball past maybe coach a kids game?? Lol just sound like an ignorant fan to me. Keep beating that horse. Echo chamber lol

You don't know about the program what was goin on those first 3 years. It's really 4 years that's being counted. Reason why Long gave him so much time. But none of that matters. Show me your defensive numbers and rankings. Shows me exactly what I need to know to not respond to you anymore. You're a clown. Go root for Beard. We'll be just fine and rolling man. You don't deserve to root for the Hogs.

 

steveaustin69

Quote from: razorback1829 on February 23, 2018, 08:37:32 am
And I know you really don't know squat about basketball now.. you keep posting stats as if stats are the only factor in the whole game. Let me ask you this since it's been addressed, have you ever done anything in basketball past maybe coach a kids game?? Lol just sound like an ignorant fan to me. Keep beating that horse. Echo chamber lol

You don't know about the program what was goin on those first 3 years. It's really 4 years that's being counted. Reason why Long gave him so much time. But none of that matters. Show me your defensive numbers and rankings. Shows me exactly what I need to know to not respond to you anymore. You're a clown. Go root for Beard. We'll be just fine and rolling man. You don't deserve to root for the Hogs.

I was a 7A 2 guard back in the day, but that doesn't have anything to do with anything. Brad Stevens only played HS basketball; guess he doesn't know anything about basketball either. The only factor in the whole game? We're bad on defense; I can slice it any way you want and it still points to being a poor defensive basketball team.  A statistic is a fact; it happened. They are the direct outcome of our play. Dismissing them makes you sound like an ignorant fan to me.

Hawg Red

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 22, 2018, 02:43:15 pm

I don't know what to tell you, man. We are not a good defensive basketball team. We rank 170th in opponent 3 point percentage. We rank 117th in overall FG percentage. In conference we're 9th in FG percentage and 11th in 3 point percentage. We also foul a TON. 329TH in opponent FTA. On what planet is that 50/50 good and bad?

Stats show it. Eye test shows it. If you want to keep your head in the dirt, go ahead. I'm done with you.

I know you don't know what to tell because you weren't prepared for a micro, context-filled response to your surface-level, macro, paintbrush analysis. If you zoom in and look at each game and compare %s, about half the time (53% to be exact) we do let teams shoot well above their seasonal average. That is bad. The other half of the games, we're holding them well below average to their average. That is average-to-good. Not bad (but sometimes not great). We're tied for 3rd in the league and we have a pretty good record overall. We wouldn't if we were a blanket bad defensive team like you are saying. Our defensive performance, execution and effort are uneven. That's the only real way their is to describe. It's a not binary good/bad like you are presenting. It's just uneven. We have lost games on defense.....and also won them with defense. Teams that are truly bad on defense DO NOT WIN GAMES WITH DEFENSE. If you've watched the games, you've seen multiple games won by Arkansas with their defense. I'm not sure you realize whose head is in the dirt. And if your eyes are telling you this team does not play well on defense for stretches of games, you need to go to make an appointment with your nearest optometrist.

I know you're "done" (yeah right) so you probably won't respond (yeah right), but I'll be here if need me.

steveaustin69

Quote from: Hawg Red on February 23, 2018, 09:06:37 am
I know you don't know what to tell because you weren't prepared for a micro, context-filled response to your surface-level, macro, paintbrush analysis. If you zoom in and look at each game and compare %s, about half the time (53% to be exact) we do let teams shoot well above their seasonal average. That is bad. The other half of the games, we're holding them well below average to their average. That is average-to-good. Not bad (but sometimes not great). We're tied for 3rd in the league and we have a pretty good record overall. We wouldn't if we were a blanket bad defensive team like you are saying. Our defensive performance, execution and effort are uneven. That's the only real way their is to describe. It's a not binary good/bad like you are presenting. It's just uneven. We have lost games on defense.....and also won them with defense. Teams that are truly bad on defense DO NOT WIN GAMES WITH DEFENSE. If you've watched the games, you've seen multiple games won by Arkansas with their defense. I'm not sure you realize whose head is in the dirt. And if your eyes are telling you this team does not play well on defense for stretches of games, you need to go to make an appointment with your nearest optometrist.

I know you're "done" (yeah right) so you probably won't respond (yeah right), but I'll be here if need me.

Playing good defense for 4 of 40 minutes does not mean we are good or even average.  Not sure why you think micro analysis is appropriate when assessing a team's season or overall ability.  Bobby Portis dropped 38 last night; I'd say he played pretty well offensively. Should we now anoint him the next Tim Duncan? Sure, if you shrink your sample size to the appropriate period, at times we've played average defense.  Ever heard of the phrase: regression to the mean? After 28 games, odds are you are what you are.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118
2Pt FG %: 134
3Pt FG %: 169
FTA: 326
ORB: 293
DRB: 178
Assists Conceded: 193
TO Forced: 102
Fouls: 232
PPG: 260

We held P5 football teams below their season average twice. Of the other games, we held them within a score of their average three times. By your line of thinking we weren't bad, we just had uneven effort. Bad at times; good some other times.

Ignoring a 28 game sample size is, well, it's something.

hogsanity

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 09:54:36 am
Playing good defense for 4 of 40 minutes does not mean we are good or even average.  Not sure why you think micro analysis is appropriate when assessing a team's season or overall ability.  Bobby Portis dropped 38 last night; I'd say he played pretty well offensively. Should we now anoint him the next Tim Duncan? Sure, if you shrink your sample size to the appropriate period, at times we've played average defense.  Ever heard of the phrase: regression to the mean? After 28 games, odds are you are what you are.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118
2Pt FG %: 134
3Pt FG %: 169
FTA: 326
ORB: 293
DRB: 178
Assists Conceded: 193
TO Forced: 102
Fouls: 232
PPG: 260

We held P5 football teams below their season average twice. Of the other games, we held them within a score of their average three times. By your line of thinking we weren't bad, we just had uneven effort. Bad at times; good some other times.

Ignoring a 28 game sample size is, well, it's something.

Stop with the facts, it makes it hard to make stuff up
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Hawg Red

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 09:54:36 am
Playing good defense for 4 of 40 minutes does not mean we are good or even average.  Not sure why you think micro analysis is appropriate when assessing a team's season or overall ability.  Bobby Portis dropped 38 last night; I'd say he played pretty well offensively. Should we now anoint him the next Tim Duncan? Sure, if you shrink your sample size to the appropriate period, at times we've played average defense.  Ever heard of the phrase: regression to the mean? After 28 games, odds are you are what you are.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118
2Pt FG %: 134
3Pt FG %: 169
FTA: 326
ORB: 293
DRB: 178
Assists Conceded: 193
TO Forced: 102
Fouls: 232
PPG: 260

We held P5 football teams below their season average twice. Of the other games, we held them within a score of their average three times. By your line of thinking we weren't bad, we just had uneven effort. Bad at times; good some other times.

Ignoring a 28 game sample size is, well, it's something.

Shrink my sample size? I included ALL conference games because that's what were talking about to begin with. The conversation was also centered on shooting %s. "Everyone seems to shoot well against us" was what started this. So that's what I stuck to.

I'm leaving anything out, you're just shifting the argument.

steveaustin69

Quote from: Hawg Red on February 23, 2018, 09:59:56 am
Shrink my sample size? I included ALL conference games because that's what were talking about to begin with. The conversation was also centered on shooting %s.

I'm leaving anything out, you're just shifting the argument.

Conference game ranks:

Overall FG%: 9
2Pt FG %: 7
3Pt Made: 13 (seems like we may give up a lot of open looks)
3Pt Att: 11 (seems like we may give up a lot of open looks)
3Pt FG %: 11
FTA: 14 (seems like we may foul a lot because of constant switching/being out of position)
ORB: 12
DRB: 10
Assists Conceded: 12
TO Forced: 6
PPG: 14

We are a bad defensive basketball team for the season, out of conference, and in conference. Numbers do not lie.

Hawg Red

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 10:07:21 am
Conference game ranks:

Overall FG%: 9
2Pt FG %: 7
3Pt Made: 13 (seems like we may give up a lot of open looks)
3Pt Att: 11 (seems like we may give up a lot of open looks)
3Pt FG %: 11
FTA: 14
ORB: 12
DRB: 10
Assists Conceded: 12
TO Forced: 6
PPG: 14

We are a bad defensive basketball team for the season, out of conference, and in conference. Numbers do not lie.

No one is going to mistake these Hogs for the late '80s Pistons or early '90s Knicks for sure. But if you're watching the games, you've seen this team put games away with defense. This just simply undeniable. Is it an overall strength? No. A bad defensive team isn't capable of playing enough defense to get a win. The Hogs have shown that they can play enough defense to get a win. It's just a fact.

steveaustin69

Quote from: Hawg Red on February 23, 2018, 10:18:01 am
No one is going to mistake these Hogs for the late '80s Pistons or early '90s Knicks for sure. But if you're watching the games, you've seen this team put games away with defense. This just simply undeniable. Is it an overall strength? No. A bad defensive team isn't capable of playing enough defense to get a win. The Hogs have shown that they can play enough defense to get a win. It's just a fact.

O. My. God.

We are 4-8 when scoring less than 80. EIGHTY. 

We are 3-6 in conference when scoring below our Average Conference PPG. We have to outscore teams. We do not win with defense.

Getting a couple stops against a bad Oklahoma State team and a solid Missouri team erases the entire season's worth of statistics and performances?

Every single statistic has pointed to bad. You are more stubborn than Anderson. Good grief.


Hawg Red

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 10:27:33 am
O. My. God.

We are 6-7 when scoring less than 80. EIGHTY.  We've lost two games scoring more than 80. EIGHTY.

Getting a couple stops against a bad Oklahoma State team and a solid Missouri team erases the entire season's worth of statistics and performances?

Every single statistic has pointed to bad. You are more stubborn than Anderson. Good grief.

Basketball is now a game geared toward the offensive side of the ball, so a lot of times, being "good" on defense really is getting the stops when you need to. So, either the Hogs aren't really that bad on defense (i.e. uneven) or they're pretty good on offense, and I've read plenty on Jumpball that our offense sucks. Do you think we're a good offensive team? Seems like the stats point toward that, so what would you say the dozens of posters that have flooded this forum claiming that our offense is bad? How bad are the other defenses in the SEC to allow a poor offense like Arkansas to be 2nd in scoring and first in both FG% and 3PT%? That sounds like we shoot well against everyone....

hogsanity

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 10:27:33 am
O. My. God.

We are 4-8 when scoring less than 80. EIGHTY. 

We are 3-6 in conference when scoring below our Average Conference PPG. We have to outscore teams. We do not win with defense.

Getting a couple stops against a bad Oklahoma State team and a solid Missouri team erases the entire season's worth of statistics and performances?

Every single statistic has pointed to bad. You are more stubborn than Anderson. Good grief.



They watched the Hogs beat a couple bad teams ( especially SC ) and thought they did it with defense. SC shot like they did because they are terrible on offense.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

steveaustin69

Quote from: Hawg Red on February 23, 2018, 10:33:25 am
Basketball is now a game geared toward the offensive side of the ball, so a lot of times, being "good" on defense really is getting the stops when you need to. So, either the Hogs aren't really that bad on defense (i.e. uneven) or they're pretty good on offense, and I've read plenty on Jumpball that our offense sucks. Do you think we're a good offensive team? Seems like the stats point toward that, so what would you say the dozens of posters that have flooded this forum claiming that our offense is bad?

Yes, when Barford and Macon are on we are a damn good offensive team. If they weren't we'd be towards the bottom of the conference.  Thanks for changing the subject. Did I ever say we weren't?

There are simple adjustments for this team on the defensive end that have not been made.  If we were an average defensive team we would be truly dangerous.  We are not average as the stats have shown. We are well below average.

 

daprospecta

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 10:45:38 am
Yes, when Barford and Macon are on we are a damn good offensive team. If they weren't we'd be towards the bottom of the conference.  Thanks for changing the subject. Did I ever say we weren't?

There are simple adjustments for this team on the defensive end that have not been made.  If we were an average defensive team we would be truly dangerous.  We are not average as the stats have shown. We are well below average.

Here is a question I have for you. Do you think there is a good coach in the SEC? I dare you to say Bruce Pearl.

Hawg Red

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 10:41:36 am
They watched the Hogs beat a couple bad teams ( especially SC ) and thought they did it with defense. SC shot like they did because they are terrible on offense.

I think they've done what they've had to do in several games. I don't think we're necessarily great on either end (clearly better offensively, though). I don't think the offense is as good as some of the seasonal ranks would indicate and I don't think the defense is as bad as the ranks would indicate. I think that shows in our record of 8-7. If we were really that bad on defense, we could easily be 5-10 like Ole Miss and Vanderbilt. I think we're a middle-of-the-pack SEC team that could finish above the middle-of-the-pack....or slightly below. I have no illusions that this is a great team on either side of the ball, but I know they're capable of playing good defense and have done so in many games this season and found ways to win on both sides. It's no secret that I've been critical of Anderson many, many times so let's not act like I'm  some sunshine pumper.

Hawg Red

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 10:45:38 am
Yes, when Barford and Macon are on we are a damn good offensive team. If they weren't we'd be towards the bottom of the conference.  Thanks for changing the subject. Did I ever say we weren't?

There are simple adjustments for this team on the defensive end that have not been made.  If we were an average defensive team we would be truly dangerous.  We are not average as the stats have shown. We are well below average.

You didn't say anything about the offense, thus me asking the question.

I don't disagree about adjustments not being made that could be made. Still aren't that bad on a defense.

hogsanity

Quote from: Hawg Red on February 23, 2018, 10:48:46 am
I think they've done what they've had to do in several games. I don't think we're necessarily great on either end (clearly better offensively, though). I don't think the offense is as good as some of the seasonal ranks would indicate and I don't think the defense is as bad as the ranks would indicate. I think that shows in our record of 8-7. If we were really that bad on defense, we could easily be 5-10 like Ole Miss and Vanderbilt. I think we're a middle-of-the-pack SEC team that could finish above the middle-of-the-pack....or slightly below. I have no illusions that this is a great team on either side of the ball, but I know they're capable of playing good defense and have done so in many games this season and found ways to win on both sides. It's no secret that I've been critical of Anderson many, many times so let's not act like I'm  some sunshine pumper.

Some of it was just scheduling luck, which everyone eventually benefits from in an unbalanced schedule. Imagine if instead of A&M twice they got  KY twice? Or instead of Om twice they got FLA or TN twice?

They are just an average bball team, they beat most of the teams they are better than ( Vandy, SC, OM A&M when they do not have their pg ) and lose to the teams that are better ( KY, AUB, FLA, ) then lose a couple head scratch games like LSU in BWA. That is what average teams do.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Hawg Red

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 10:56:30 am
Some of it was just scheduling luck, which everyone eventually benefits from in an unbalanced schedule. Imagine if instead of A&M twice they got  KY twice? Or instead of Om twice they got FLA or TN twice?

They are just an average bball team, they beat most of the teams they are better than ( Vandy, SC, OM A&M when they do not have their pg ) and lose to the teams that are better ( KY, AUB, FLA, ) then lose a couple head scratch games like LSU in BWA. That is what average teams do.

There are probably more "average" teams in the NCAA tournament discussion than most are willing to admit, in that case.

steveaustin69

Quote from: daprospecta on February 23, 2018, 10:46:54 am
Here is a question I have for you. Do you think there is a good coach in the SEC? I dare you to say Bruce Pearl.

Bruce Pearl's D1 record: .657 Winning %. 8 tourney appearances in 13 years. 3 Sweet 16s and an Elite Eight.

Mike Anderson's D1 record: .657 Winning %. 8 tourney appearances in 15 years. 1 Sweet 16 and an Elite Eight.

If you think Mike is a good coach, then, yes, you should also consider Bruce Pearl a good coach.  Further, getting to the tourney and advancing from the Horizon league is a hell of a lot harder than from Conference USA.

steveaustin69

Quote from: Hawg Red on February 23, 2018, 10:48:46 am
I think they've done what they've had to do in several games. I don't think we're necessarily great on either end (clearly better offensively, though). I don't think the offense is as good as some of the seasonal ranks would indicate and I don't think the defense is as bad as the ranks would indicate. I think that shows in our record of 8-7. If we were really that bad on defense, we could easily be 5-10 like Ole Miss and Vanderbilt. I think we're a middle-of-the-pack SEC team that could finish above the middle-of-the-pack....or slightly below. I have no illusions that this is a great team on either side of the ball, but I know they're capable of playing good defense and have done so in many games this season and found ways to win on both sides. It's no secret that I've been critical of Anderson many, many times so let's not act like I'm  some sunshine pumper.

Quote from: steveaustin69 on February 23, 2018, 10:27:33 am
We are 3-6 in conference when scoring below our Average Conference PPG. We have to outscore teams. We do not win with defense.

Two of those wins are teams tied for last in the conference.  Unless it's a clearly inferior team, we have to outscore them to win.

hogsanity

Quote from: Hawg Red on February 23, 2018, 10:59:32 am
There are probably more "average" teams in the NCAA tournament discussion than most are willing to admit, in that case.

I agree. There really is no dominant team or teams that you look at and say it will be a huge shock if they are not in the final 4 or even elite 8.

The SEC is full of them. Everyone keeps saying, there is a 6 way tie for 3rd, that also means there is a 6 way tie for 8th.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

daprospecta

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 11:12:44 am
I agree. There really is no dominant team or teams that you look at and say it will be a huge shock if they are not in the final 4 or even elite 8.

The SEC is full of them. Everyone keeps saying, there is a 6 way tie for 3rd, that also means there is a 6 way tie for 8th.
If you agree there are a lot of "average" teams, can you not agree that there are not many coaches that are going to get better results than Mike that are outside of the usual top coaches? For every Chris Beard, there are 15-20 up and comers that don't pan out I.E. J.P.

99toLife

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 11:12:44 am
I agree. There really is no dominant team or teams that you look at and say it will be a huge shock if they are not in the final 4 or even elite 8.

The SEC is full of them. Everyone keeps saying, there is a 6 way tie for 3rd, that also means there is a 6 way tie for 8th.

True but many talking heads are still predicting 7-10 SEC Teams in the NCAAT. 7 would be a record.

hogsanity

Quote from: daprospecta on February 23, 2018, 11:22:11 am
If you agree there are a lot of "average" teams, can you not agree that there are not many coaches that are going to get better results than Mike that are outside of the usual top coaches? For every Chris Beard, there are 15-20 up and comers that don't pan out I.E. J.P.

I said yesterday that any coaching hire is a crap shoot. I bet many thought the Hogs would have had more success under Anderson than they have had too. I am not a huge Beard fan either.

As for people who keep bringing up Pelphrey. He was not someone they went out and targeted from the start. He was a fall back/desperate hire of epic proportions after the Altman fiasco which was brought about by the Billy Clyde Gillespie fail. If they had known BCG was going to jilt them for KY they would never have fired Heath to start with. It is not like they decided " hey lets by pass every coach out there, fire Heath, and go get the guy from South Alabama.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

 

lynbug

Quote from: hogsanity on February 23, 2018, 09:58:00 am
Stop with the facts, it makes it hard to make stuff up
My belly laugh for the day.  Thanks, hogsanity.

HognotinMemphis

Worthless. Arkansas, if it makes the NCAAT at all, will be no higher than a 10 seed.
I don't want you to agree with me because you're weak. I want you to agree with me because you know I'm right.
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