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The Identity Theft of Mitch Mustain

Started by Sed76, June 09, 2017, 11:55:28 am

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bphi11ips

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 15, 2017, 09:25:10 am
During the three months after his orginal committment Mustain became extremely close to quarterbacks coach Roy Wittke. Wittke indicated that by the time Mitch was ready to play (redshirt was a real possibility) Arkansas would have switched to a pro style offense. Mitch would have a chance to break free of the Hurry Up No Huddle he operated out of in high school under Malzahn and run an offense he would see in the NFL. This was extremely important to him. To him the HUNH was his high school offense. Been there, done that. It was time to move on.

I would point out that even though he was upset when Wittke was fired Mitch was never rude to Nutt. He asked for a private meeting and explained to him in that meeting that he was decommitting just to take a look at Notre Dame which had reconnected with him. He wasn't dropping Arkansas. He wanted the whole thing to be kept confidential because he knew a crap storm that would erupt if word got out.

Nutt said he would keep it quiet but in the 15 minutes it took him to get back to Springdale the word was out. Mitch pulled into the Sonic on south business 71, switched on the radio in his pickup and Otis was telling Rick and Chuck that Mitch had decommitted. I later learned that Nutt told Danny and it was Danny who told Otis.

Why should we not be surprised?  How lousy was that?  It's a wonder that wasn't the end of it for Mitch.  Should've been.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: LZH on June 15, 2017, 10:25:11 am
Nutt would have never willingly hired an OC who was 'smarter' than him. One night at a fish fry, the subject of him calling his own plays came up. He told a friend of mine something to the effect of "if it is my butt on the line, I'm not letting someone else call the games." At the time it made sense to me, but that was before 2004-2005 and way before Gus was ever thought of.

The ironic thing is as a HEAD coach if his butt is on the line then he should WANT to have a smart OC calling the plays. That would then take it off his butt if it doesn't workout. IF there is one thing I've learned in business and management is hire the best and get the hell out of their way.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

 

Hogwaller

It was within Houston Nutt's ability to bring stability to the situation. He was the man in control bottom line. Had he handled it better, everything would have turned out differently. His ego got the best of him, he chose to take the low road, and it and has become his legacy.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: LZH on June 15, 2017, 10:25:11 am
Nutt would have never willingly hired an OC who was 'smarter' than him. One night at a fish fry, the subject of him calling his own plays came up. He told a friend of mine something to the effect of "if it is my butt on the line, I'm not letting someone else call the games." At the time it made sense to me, but that was before 2004-2005 and way before Gus was ever thought of.

A relative of one of the Springdale kids on the team told me that each week HDN would walk into Gus' office and throw a binder down on his desk and tell him, "here are your plays for this week". Did that happen every week? Selected weeks? Not at all? I don't know. I am just relating what I was told and though Nutt was forced to hire an OC, he was going to remain in control no matter what, so this made perfect sense to me that this might be how it actually went down every week. Mike Irwin might be able to verify this or denounce it. He would probably know better than me. I'm just going by what was passed on to me at the time.
Go Hogs Go!

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: Hogwaller on June 15, 2017, 12:20:13 pm
It was within Houston Nutt's ability to bring stability to the situation. He was the man in control bottom line. Had he handled it better, everything would have turned out differently. His ego got the best of him, he chose to take the low road, and it and has become his legacy.

He had the responsibility but not the ability.................................
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

hogsanity

Quote from: hog of steele on June 15, 2017, 09:41:22 am
Old grudges aside, do you think Nutt had it in him run a pro style offense with a balanced attack? Outside of the nonsense, the real criticism of Nutt (in my mind) is that he could have been a great coach if he focused on motivating and found some coordinators to coordinate.


Look at his offense in his 1st few seasons.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

bphi11ips

Quote from: hogsanity on June 16, 2017, 09:12:55 am
Look at his offense in his 1st few seasons.

His philosophy did seem to become more consistent with his boss's over time. 
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

hogsanity

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 16, 2017, 09:19:53 am
His philosophy did seem to become more consistent with his boss's over time. 

I have always thought that somewhere around 2000 JFB told HDN to change his style. Then of course MJ came along and for 4 seasons we had " snap it to the big fast kid and let him make stuff up " offense. By the time Mj graduated, we went through a lost season with no real QB, and a ton of FR on offense, then 06 came around and they utilized their best weapons, Hillis, Dmac and Felix.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawganatic

Quote from: hogsanity on June 16, 2017, 09:12:55 am
Look at his offense in his 1st few seasons.

Offense developed by another coaching staff.  He just had to plug and play with what he had his first two seasons.  His third season on, where it was solely him responsible, is where the offense started hitting the wall.

Any coach at that level can coach the game.  What sets the great coaches (like Saban) apart is their attention to detail, and the ability to teach those small details that sets players apart from the rest.  Nutt just never had that attention to detail.  Add to that his refusal to hire the best coaches available (went with loyalty and previous ties opposed to actual coaching ability), and his inner circle blowing his ego up by calling him an offensive genius, and you get what we got, a mediocre-to-poor coaching staff with a sense of self-entitlement.

lstewart

We live in Springdale and one of my son's grew up playing sports with that group. We were at all the Springdale games in those days and it was sure a lot of fun. At the time I thought Mitch as really good, but felt like Damian Williams was the most talented player on that team. Looking back now, I think Mitch was a good quarterback, and had the tools to have developed into a really good college QB. But I think the talent he had around him at Springdale High made him appear better than he really was. Williams was amazing, and would come down with everything Mitch threw his way. Mitch had a very nice arm with great touch, was athletic, and could run when asked to. If he would have ended up in the right situation and started for a few years in college, he would have had a good career. But in hindsight, he was not as talented as all the hype he received. That said, he could have been a really good QB for the Hogs in a different situation.

Mike Irwin

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 15, 2017, 07:16:19 pm
A relative of one of the Springdale kids on the team told me that each week HDN would walk into Gus' office and throw a binder down on his desk and tell him, "here are your plays for this week". Did that happen every week? Selected weeks? Not at all? I don't know. I am just relating what I was told and though Nutt was forced to hire an OC, he was going to remain in control no matter what, so this made perfect sense to me that this might be how it actually went down every week. Mike Irwin might be able to verify this or denounce it. He would probably know better than me. I'm just going by what was passed on to me at the time.
Supposedly this started happening the week after the South Carolina game when he benched Mustain. Somebody close to that situation pointed out that Arkansas was 8-1 at the time and Nutt figured he was safe from Frank's wrath. In other words a losing season would get him fired but he was already well above that.

Pork Twain

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 16, 2017, 09:19:53 am
His philosophy did seem to become more consistent with his boss's over time. 
I always thought this was the case.  I thought that the HDN we first saw, could have developed into a pretty good HC, but over time it appeared that he morphed into another JFB assistant coach.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Deep Shoat

Quote from: hogsanity on June 16, 2017, 09:12:55 am
Look at his offense in his 1st few seasons.
Clint Stoerner has said, publically (and even more privately) that he pretty much just called what he wanted.  He never stopped using the offense from previous staff.

Nutt's real O was what we saw from year 3 on.
All Gas, No Brakes!

 

Deep Shoat

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 16, 2017, 04:00:41 pm
Supposedly this started happening the week after the South Carolina game when he benched Mustain. Somebody close to that situation pointed out that Arkansas was 8-1 at the time and Nutt figured he was safe from Frank's wrath. In other words a losing season would get him fired but he was already well above that.
And benching Mustain was something Dale the Wonder Weasel planned for weeks prior.  Basically, the next big mistake was going to see MM benched.  Everyone acts like he was some scrub now, but in reality he led the team to a 7-0 record prior to his benching. Sure, he had Dmac, Felix, and a very good D.  But he wasn't a scrub.  He won the Auburn game.  His read, his arm.

I hate it that this kid gets so much grief from people who are supposed to be his fans.
All Gas, No Brakes!

PonderinHog

Quote from: Deep Shoat on June 17, 2017, 10:14:35 am
Clint Stoerner has said, publically (and even more privately) that he pretty much just called what he wanted.  He never stopped using the offense from previous staff.

Nutt's real O was what we saw from year 3 on.
But Clint never called him a dork.  When did Joe Ferguson leave the coaching staff?

bphi11ips

Quote from: PonderinHog on June 17, 2017, 10:23:22 am
But Clint never called him a dork.  When did Joe Ferguson leave the coaching staff?

Good point and good question.  According to this article, must reading for anyone unfamiliar with Joe Ferguson, certainly the most successful NFL QB to ever play for the Razorbacks, he left in 2001:

http://footballcountrymag.com/whatever-happened-to-joe-ferguson/

Joe had a tough act to follow in Bill Montgomery, but he was the purest passer we've ever had.  Actually, Brandon Allen might have been the purest since, not to be confused with Mallett's big arm.  BA's footwork and spin his last year reminded me of Ferguson.

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

PonderinHog

Thanks, Mr. Phillips.   Great read. 

Pork Twain

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 17, 2017, 11:13:41 am
Good point and good question.  According to this article, must reading for anyone unfamiliar with Joe Ferguson, certainly the most successful NFL QB to ever play for the Razorbacks, he left in 2001:

http://footballcountrymag.com/whatever-happened-to-joe-ferguson/

Joe had a tough act to follow in Bill Montgomery, but he was the purest passer we've ever had.  Actually, Brandon Allen might have been the purest since, not to be confused with Mallett's big arm.  BA's footwork and spin his last year reminded me of Ferguson.


This was the first very poor decision HDN made and in the grand scheme of things, maybe the worst.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Mike Irwin

June 17, 2017, 02:32:11 pm #118 Last Edit: June 17, 2017, 02:48:27 pm by Mike Irwin
Quote from: Pork Twain on June 17, 2017, 01:12:47 pm
This was the first very poor decision HDN made and in the grand scheme of things, maybe the worst.
HDN: "The biggest thing you'll miss with Joe is his instruction, his knowledge of the game, his 18 years in the NFL. He's the best technician of anybody you've been around."

What a joke. Ever notice that when Nutt is talking about someone he doesn't want around him he never says "I"? It's always "you, "you'll" and "you've." Who the heck is you?

That quote should actually read like this: "You want your QBs to be bus drivers and they don't need instruction from a detail oriented expert. The thing you don't miss with Joe is you don't have somebody around who shoots straight. You like to BS people and Joe doesn't know to do that."

There were a lot of issues between those two but one of the biggest was Gary Brashears. Nutt coddled the kid. Joe wanted to kick his butt.
In those days staying around in the summer was voluntary. Because of that there was a mandatory conditioning test players had to pass before they could participate in August Camp. Brashears flunked it. Joe was furious.  I questioned him on camera about it after the test was over. It sort of went like this: (It's been too long for me to give you 100% to-the-letter quotes)

Me: Have you ever had a quarterback fail the preseason conditioning test?

Joe: No, and it can't happen.

Me: Why?

Joe: Because a quarterback is a team leader. If he fails the test every other player on the team has an excuse to fail it.

Me: In fairness he's not the starting quarterback. He's still a freshman:

Joe: He's 18 years old. There are kids his age that fought in the Gulf War. That's life and death. This is football. He's got no excuse for this.

When Nutt found out what Ferguson said he was not happy. He was beyond unhappy the next day when, after seeing it himself, Brashears bugged out of practice never to return by slipping between a gap in the fence on the grass practice fields where it joined the NE corner of the Walker Indoor Pavilion.

At that point is was only a matter of time until Joe left the staff.

bphi11ips

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 17, 2017, 02:32:11 pm
HDN: "The biggest thing you'll miss with Joe is his instruction, his knowledge of the game, his 18 years in the NFL. He's the best technician of anybody you've been around."

What a joke. Ever notice that when Nutt is talking about someone he doesn't want around him he never says "I"? It's always "you, "you'll" and "you've." Who the heck is you?

That quote should actually read like this: "You want your QBs to be bus drivers and they don't need instruction from a detail oriented expert. The thing you don't miss with Joe is you don't have somebody around who shoots straight. You like to BS people and Joe doesn't know to do that."

There were a lot of issues between those two but one of the biggest was Gary Brashears. Nutt coddled the kid. Joe wanted to kick his butt.
In those days staying around in the summer was voluntary. Because of that there was a mandatory conditioning test players had to pass before they could participate in August Camp. Brashears flunked it. Joe was furious.  I questioned him on camera about it after the test was over. It sort of went like this: (It's been too long for me to give you 100% to-the-letter quotes)

Me: Have you ever had a quarterback fail the preseason conditioning test?

Joe: No, and it can't happen.

Me: Why?

Joe: Because a quarterback is a team leader. If he fails the test every other player on the team has an excuse to fail it.

Me: In fairness he's not the starting quarterback. He's still a freshman:

Joe: He's 18 years old. There are kids his age that fought in the Gulf War. That's life and death. This is football. He's got no excuse for this.

When Nutt found out what Ferguson said he was not happy. He was beyond unhappy the next day when, after seeing it himself, Brashears bugged out of practice never to return by slipping between a gap in the fence on the grass practice fields where it joined the NE corner of the Walker Indoor Pavilion.

At that point is was only a matter of time until Joe left the staff.


Hah!!!!  Remind you of anyone else?
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

Pork Twain

Ego has hurt Arkansas football more than any other team has.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 15, 2017, 07:16:19 pm
A relative of one of the Springdale kids on the team told me that each week HDN would walk into Gus' office and throw a binder down on his desk and tell him, "here are your plays for this week". Did that happen every week? Selected weeks? Not at all? I don't know. I am just relating what I was told and though Nutt was forced to hire an OC, he was going to remain in control no matter what, so this made perfect sense to me that this might be how it actually went down every week. Mike Irwin might be able to verify this or denounce it. He would probably know better than me. I'm just going by what was passed on to me at the time.

This is generally what happens when an AD forces his HC to hire a coordinator that the HC does not want to hire. Frank was a great AD but being human, he made his share of mistakes and this was one of them. If Nutt was going to fail (and he most assuredly would have), he should have been allowed to do so with coaches he wanted. If Frank hadn't forced Nutt's hand, we might have gotten rid of Hooty a year earlier.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GuvHog

Quote from: zeke_in_kc on June 18, 2017, 12:58:34 pm
This is a can of worms but I had more than a single opportunity to officiate games a HS Brashears played in: one a horrific loss where he folded like a cheap tent.

1.  I have no idea what could have occurred at UA.
2.  I have no idea what the best approach would have been.
3.  I do know he was coddled in HS, from what I could see.

I also do know that -- in the few instances I was an eye witness -- intestinal fortitude didn't appear to be one of his intangibles.

There may have been no manner that could have functioned at the NCAA level but I would have tended to side more with HDN on this one, at least out of the gate.  Immediately holding someone to expectations they've never had and don't understand, publicly, seems odd.  I get it, Ferguson spent nearly two decades as a professional QB and probably has a professional standard with the early 1970s being a long time ago...

I just don't think you bury a guy in the press right out of the gate.  Ferguson's college career was all over the place, today's press would have been murderous.  He never experienced it (in college)?  Leaves only an NFL perspective.

Well done. Joe Ferguson was absolutely right about Gary Brashears but he would have been better off keeping his thoughts about Brashears to himself and discussed it with Brashears privately instead of going to the media with it.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Mike Irwin

Quote from: GuvHog on June 18, 2017, 02:01:34 pm
Well done. Joe Ferguson was absolutely right about Gary Brashears but he would have been better off keeping his thoughts about Brashears to himself and discussed it with Brashears privately instead of going to the media with it.
I disagree. Joe is not somebody that functions well when muzzled. This was only one of several incidents where he and Nutt wildly disagreed on something. He was going to be gone. It was only a matter of time.

As for Brashears Joe was tired of the foolishness. His attitude was, get with the program or get out. This kid is wasting everybody's time. Clearly he drew the line that day and he didn't care who knew it. It's a shame that Joe left coaching not long after that and Nutt continued for several more years. It should have been the other way around.

Also Joe didn't go to the media. The media went to him. When your supposed hot shot quarterback shows up the first day back from the summer with a big tattoo of a dagger on his back and proceeds to fail a conditioning test that 300 pound linemen passed, it's time to do something. So Joe told it like it was.

 

WilsonHog

June 18, 2017, 02:42:17 pm #124 Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 03:04:02 pm by WilsonHog
The way I see it, Nutt's relationship with Joe Ferguson illustrates Nutt's biggest failing. Ferguson was an all-SWC quarterback who went on to pass for almost 30,000 yards over an 18-year NFL career. Nutt, meanwhile, wasn't good enough to start here and (after sneaking off in the middle of the night) spent two years as a back-up quarterback at Oklahoma State. Nutt should have been secure enough in his own skin to recognize Joe's superior knowledge and expertise with quarterbacks and take advantage of it. Instead, he screwed it up as only that jackass could.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: bphi11ips on June 17, 2017, 02:59:02 pm
Hah!!!!  Remind you of anyone else?

Nutty knows ALL about slipping out and leaving. He was the inventor of that for QB's on the hill. 
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

GuvHog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 18, 2017, 02:12:47 pm
I disagree. Joe is not somebody that functions well when muzzled. This was only one of several incidents where he and Nutt wildly disagreed on something. He was going to be gone. It was only a matter of time.

As for Brashears Joe was tired of the foolishness. His attitude was, get with the program or get out. This kid is wasting everybody's time. Clearly he drew the line that day and he didn't care who knew it. It's a shame that Joe left coaching not long after that and Nutt continued for several more years. It should have been the other way around.

Also Joe didn't go to the media. The media went to him. When your supposed hot shot quarterback shows up the first day back from the summer with a big tattoo of a dagger on his back and proceeds to fail a conditioning test that 300 pound linemen passed, it's time to do something. So Joe told it like it was.


Joe was right, no doubt about it and running him off wads just one of many major mistakes Houston Nutt made. Joe was the reason the offense did so well in 1998 and 1999.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

AlmaHog2011

Gary was not even worthy of a chance. I dealt with the kids dad during AAU basketball and to say the guy is different is an understatement. Nutt should have been begging Joe to stay and coach. I mean begging him. Joe Ferguson was a straight shooter who knew Gary was a waste.

I don't really understand the time they put into him? He was not SEC caliber period.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: AlmaHog2011 on June 18, 2017, 08:00:37 pm
Gary was not even worthy of a chance. I dealt with the kids dad during AAU basketball and to say the guy is different is an understatement. Nutt should have been begging Joe to stay and coach. I mean begging him. Joe Ferguson was a straight shooter who knew Gary was a waste.

I don't really understand the time they put into him? He was not SEC caliber period.

Brashears unfortunately wasted his talent. I understood that his Father was a major contributor to this and was an enabler of his son. Sad thing. He left Arkansas and landed at Tulsa where former Arkansas DC Keith Burns was the HC. I don't think that he lasted an entire year there, though I can't remember.

Here's what happened with him and there is more inside the link:

Did the hype bother Brashears? "No comment," Brashears said. Then, Brashears went to Tulsa and sat out the 2000 season under NCAA transfer rules. "Do you have to write about Tulsa?" Brashears asks. He left there in February 2001 for "personal reasons."

Brashears landed at Coffeeville (Kan.) Community College, but he reinjured a bothersome ankle during preseason practices and didn't play. "I thought about hanging it up," said Brashears, who attended summer school to regain his eligibility. "Then, I thought, 'I don't want to roof houses for the rest of my life, so I better get back in school and play football."'

Alabama State assistant coach Chris Kapilovic heard about Brashears and did some checking on his background. The Hornets, searching for a replacement to all-time passing leader Darnell Kennedy, offered him a scholarship without seeing a second of film. "We looked at his background and saw that he was something like the third-best quarterback in the country coming out of high school," L.C. Cole said. "I just took a chance on him. "We needed a quarterback with his experience. Knowing he played in the SEC was good enough for us to take a chance on him," Cole said.

Cole said he checked with people who knew Brashears, and they reported that he was "a loyal, good kid." Still, he got a scare when Brashears called in April and said he was considering attending Arkansas-Monticello instead. Brashears honored his scholarship and was named the starter after Jermaine Crenshaw was sidelined with kidney stones last week. He completed 24 of 39 passes for 181 yards without throwing an interception in his debut. Brashears admits to some pre-game butterflies but said they fluttered away quickly.


http://thecabin.net/stories/091102/spo_0911020038.shtml#.WUck377vPII
Go Hogs Go!

riccoar

Quote from: WilsonHog on June 18, 2017, 02:42:17 pm
The way I see it, Nutt's relationship with Joe Ferguson illustrates Nutt's biggest failing. Ferguson was an all-SWC quarterback who went on to pass for almost 30,000 yards over an 18-year NFL career. Nutt, meanwhile, wasn't good enough to start here and (after sneaking off in the middle of the night) spent two years as a back-up quarterback at Oklahoma State. Nutt should have been secure enough in his own skin to recognize Joe's superior knowledge and expertise with quarterbacks and take advantage of it. Instead, he screwed it up as only that jackass could.
Oh, I think Nutt recognized knowledge.  I think he was very keen when that knowledge outshined his.  Problem is, a student of the game soaks that up.  Every ounce you can.  An egotistical jackass removes it from his repertoire.

Michael D Huff AIA

Nutt was just an egotistical [CENSORED] that put himself before winning.  We had not done a lot of that in the two years prior to Mustain's showing up on campus, but he still couldn't embrace any new thought once a real offensive mind in Malzahn showed up on campus.

Scorecard:  Still coaching football: Malzahn 1  Nutt 0
                Been fired:                 Nutt 2      Malzahn 0
                Conference record:      Malzahn .694   Nutt  .525

ChicoHog

Just finished the watching the documentary.  Good insights and I thought Mustain handled himself very well.  Mike-you also had some great comments along with Stoerner, Voight and some others.  Nutt really screwed the pooch on that one.  No one knows if Mustain would have been a great QB here but we sure as heck know Nutt messed him up and maybe Malzahn also.  I can't fathom how the OC and/or HC of a team would not go talk to his QB after he was pulled in the SCarolina game. 

acey33

Quote from: Pork Twain on June 10, 2017, 01:57:03 pm
I think our DC had as much to do with the score they put up as their game plan...  They ran it down our throats all day and coach Klien was hiding behind the water cooler.

After taking over a top team, Gus has gone 8-5, 7-6, 8-5 and I would say his time as a HC at a SEC school is fading.

That must mean our current Coach BB is in the same position?

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: acey33 on June 23, 2017, 10:50:20 am
That must mean our current Coach BB is in the same position?

Not exactly. Gus has had the benefit of a lot better talent overall during his time as HC at Auburn and he didn't have to come in and clean up a team full of negative attitudes and try to re-install discipline, as well as recruit new people for a change in offensive systems. Auburn's recruiting classes from 2013-2017 have been ranked 10, 6, 8, 9 and 9. So no, it isn't at all like Bielema is in the same position.
Go Hogs Go!

hoggusamoungus

Quote from: acey33 on June 23, 2017, 10:50:20 am
That must mean our current Coach BB is in the same position?

Have you forgotten the 4-8 team of 2012?  That's what he inherited.

theFlyingHog

Quote from: hoggusamoungus on June 23, 2017, 11:09:02 am
Have you forgotten the 4-8 team of 2012?  That's what he inherited.
Aww c'mon don't let facts get in the way of some Petrino love. Some of these guys wish they'd been on the back of that motorcycle

dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya

June 25, 2017, 03:48:50 am #136 Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 04:28:07 am by dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya
Quote from: Medic821 on June 11, 2017, 01:24:20 am
8-0. Who was in the back field morons.  Ask the
players what they thought of Mustajn .

Quotes like this are a great example of the lies being fed to the fan base during that time.  M. Irwin was the only AR media member who really made an effort to find out the truth.  The truth about what HDN did was all so bizarre and incredible, his supporters either refused to believe it or were in denial.  This is what fractured the fan base, straight down the middle.  I can't remember there ever being such a 50/50 divide before or since.

HOGVILLE, some fed up fans and Star Wars' themed photoshopped Huggers vs. The Darkside humor is what helped some of us get through those dark days.

Unfortunately, today it seems there is even more pro-Nutt fiction about that time.  Each year It gets stronger, the further away from that time we get.

published songwriter(ASCAP)/audio production/radio jingles/producer<br /><br />Audio Production/Music

R.I.P. notshavintilnuttgo 12/11/07

Pork Twain

Quote from: acey33 on June 23, 2017, 10:50:20 am
That must mean our current Coach BB is in the same position?
Can you look at the data and still ask that?  Coaching at Auburn has several built in advantages over Arkansas.  Take away the first year anomalies for both and they are pretty much the same coach by records.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

GuvHog

Quote from: dj shanon "Notshavin" smeya on June 25, 2017, 03:48:50 am
Quotes like this are a great example of the lies being fed to the fan base during that time.  M. Irwin was the only AR media member who really made an effort to find out the truth.  The truth about what HDN did was all so bizarre and incredible, his supporters either refused to believe it or were in denial.  This is what fractured the fan base, straight down the middle.  I can't remember there ever being such a 50/50 divide before or since.

HOGVILLE, some fed up fans and Star Wars' themed photoshopped Huggers vs. The Darkside humor is what helped some of us get through those dark days.

Unfortunately, today it seems there is even more pro-Nutt fiction about that time.  Each year It gets stronger, the further away from that time we get.



I whole Heartedly agree with what you say about Nutt but it is true that the team was 8-0 with Mustain starting in 2006 because McFadden, Jones, and Hillis put the offense on their backs and carried them through those games.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Mike Irwin

Quote from: GuvHog on June 25, 2017, 07:32:35 am
I whole Heartedly agree with what you say about Nutt but it is true that the team was 8-0 with Mustain starting in 2006 because McFadden, Jones, and Hillis put the offense on their backs and carried them through those games.
There are a lot of people like you who minimize what Mustain did. In his first road start at Vanderbilt there's no way they win that game without him. In the 3rd quarter he lead them on a come from behind 90+ yards drive. D-Mac actually lost yards on that possession. Mustain completed two passes,one for a huge gain and another for a touchdown. There was pretty much nothing in between.

On the road at Auburn, which was top 5 at the time, they biltzed him early trying to break his confidence. With a linebacker in his face about to level him Mustain looped the ball out to Marcus Monk for a huge gain. Arkansas quickly scored and had the early lead. Later he executed perfectly the so called "woody" play. You have to see it in slow motion to see what Mustain does with his hands but he totally fooled Auburn's defense. After that D-Mac took over and Arkansas won easily. But don't tell me Mustain didn't do much in the game.

This was before Nutt went nuts on Mitch and the kid had some confidence. By the time they played Bama he was pretty much psyched out by Nutt's bizarre attitude toward him and yes he struggled. But when the game was on the line he made one hell of an adjustment, throwing the ball in overtime to Ben Cleveland instead of Damien Williams who was the intended target but was double covered. How many times do you suppose he did that very thing at Springdale High? Damien draws double coverage. Ben is open.

Still, the winning pass was a thread-the-needle thing that went between the hands of two other defenders. After the game that idiot Nutt had Mazhahn chew Mitch out for throwing to the wrong guy. If you want to know why I think Nutt was nuts, that's it. What a moron. The kid beats Bama and Nutt wants to give him a beatdown.

So don't tell me that it was all D-Mac, Felix and Peyton. You show your ignorance when you try to make that point.

BILLYBOB

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 25, 2017, 11:09:37 am
There are a lot of people like you who minimize what Mustain did. In his first road start at Vanderbilt there's no way they win that game without him. In the 3rd quarter he lead them on a come from behind 90+ yards drive. D-Mac actually lost yards on that possession. Mustain completed two passes,one for a huge gain and another for a touchdown. There was pretty much nothing in between.

On the road at Auburn, which was top 5 at the time, they biltzed him early trying to break his confidence. With a linebacker in his face about to level him Mustain looped the ball out to Marcus Monk for a huge gain. Arkansas quickly scored and had the early lead. Later he executed perfectly the so called "woody" play. You have to see it in slow motion to see what Mustain does with his hands but he totally fooled Auburn's defense. After that D-Mac took over and Arkansas won easily. But don't tell me Mustain didn't do much in the game.

This was before Nutt went nuts on Mitch and the kid had some confidence. By the time they played Bama he was pretty much psyched out by Nutt's bizarre attitude toward him and yes he struggled. But when the game was on the line he made one hell of an adjustment, throwing the ball in overtime to Ben Cleveland instead of Damien Williams who was the intended target but was double covered. How many times do you suppose he did that very thing at Springdale High? Damien draws double coverage. Ben is open.

Still, the winning pass was a thread-the-needle thing that went between the hands of two other defenders. After the game that idiot Nutt had Mazhahn chew Mitch out for throwing to the wrong guy. If you want to know why I think Nutt was nuts, that's it. What a moron. The kid beats Bama and Nutt wants to give him a beatdown.

So don't tell me that it was all D-Mac, Felix and Peyton. You show your ignorance when you try to make that point.

And you're revising history, old wise one.  It absolutely was 100% Dmac, Jones, and Hillis. We were a run first, second, and third team. The opposing defenses regularly put 8-9 men in the box. When any quarterback threw the ball it was nearly always into single coverage with the safety cheating up to stop the run. Mitch did a very nice job...especially for a true freshman. He probably would've gone on to set all time U of A records. But get serious...in 2006 it started and ended with an all-time-great-in-all-of-college football backfield.
"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence." ~Charles Bukowski

GuvHog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 25, 2017, 11:09:37 am
There are a lot of people like you who minimize what Mustain did. In his first road start at Vanderbilt there's no way they win that game without him. In the 3rd quarter he lead them on a come from behind 90+ yards drive. D-Mac actually lost yards on that possession. Mustain completed two passes,one for a huge gain and another for a touchdown. There was pretty much nothing in between.

On the road at Auburn, which was top 5 at the time, they biltzed him early trying to break his confidence. With a linebacker in his face about to level him Mustain looped the ball out to Marcus Monk for a huge gain. Arkansas quickly scored and had the early lead. Later he executed perfectly the so called "woody" play. You have to see it in slow motion to see what Mustain does with his hands but he totally fooled Auburn's defense. After that D-Mac took over and Arkansas won easily. But don't tell me Mustain didn't do much in the game.

This was before Nutt went nuts on Mitch and the kid had some confidence. By the time they played Bama he was pretty much psyched out by Nutt's bizarre attitude toward him and yes he struggled. But when the game was on the line he made one hell of an adjustment, throwing the ball in overtime to Ben Cleveland instead of Damien Williams who was the intended target but was double covered. How many times do you suppose he did that very thing at Springdale High? Damien draws double coverage. Ben is open.

Still, the winning pass was a thread-the-needle thing that went between the hands of two other defenders. After the game that idiot Nutt had Mazhahn chew Mitch out for throwing to the wrong guy. If you want to know why I think Nutt was nuts, that's it. What a moron. The kid beats Bama and Nutt wants to give him a beatdown.

So don't tell me that it was all D-Mac, Felix and Peyton. You show your ignorance when you try to make that point.

I agree 100% that Nut did indeed hurt Mustain, there's no doubt about that.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Mike Irwin

June 25, 2017, 05:00:55 pm #142 Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 08:58:36 pm by Mike Irwin
Quote from: BILLYBOB on June 25, 2017, 12:41:45 pm
And you're revising history, old wise one.  It absolutely was 100% Dmac, Jones, and Hillis. We were a run first, second, and third team. The opposing defenses regularly put 8-9 men in the box. When any quarterback threw the ball it was nearly always into single coverage with the safety cheating up to stop the run. Mitch did a very nice job...especially for a true freshman. He probably would've gone on to set all time U of A records. But get serious...in 2006 it started and ended with an all-time-great-in-all-of-college football backfield.
I'm not revising anything. I deal with facts, not the off the cuff opinions sometimes thrown around on this board.

It's a fact that after a 50-14 loss at home to open the 2006 season Houston Nutt was close to being out of a job. The program had suffered back to back losing seasons. That team had no confidence after a second USC butt whipping in two seasons. In that game Felix Jones had 48 yards rushing. D-Mac had 42 and Hillis ended up with 16.

Playing in just two series Mustain was 4 of 6 for 47 yards and he scored a touchdown on a QB draw. The only other Razorback to score was Robert Johnson on a one yard run.

That's the beginning you referred to.

The next game was pretty much all D-Mac. A 20-0 win at home over Utah State. He had 184 yards rushing. Mitch was 9-17 for 119 yards in his first start.

Then came a road trip to Vanderbilt and the irony of that game is unbelievable. There were strong rumors that Frank sent a private plane to Nashville to fly Nutt back on if Arkansas lost, and they almost did. Nutt would be told he was out. He would not return with the team.

Mitch threw for 224 yards and three touchdowns that day. D-Mac and Felix did not score and combined for 149 yards rushing. There were two key possessions in the game.

In the 2nd quarter Arkansas was down 13-7 and needed a spark going into the dressing room at halftime. Mustain provided that spark with a 21 yard TD to Felix with 3 minutes to go. It was Arkansas 14, Vanderbilt 13 at the break.

Fast forward to 3:33 in the 3rd quarter. Arkansas was still up 14-13 and had the ball on its own 7. On 1st and 10 Jones was stopped for no gain. On the next play Mustain hooked up with Chris Houston for 42 yards to the Arkansas 49. On 1st and 10 D-Mac was stopped for no gain. On 2nd and 10 Mustain threw incomplete for D-Mac. On 3rd and 10 Mustain hit Monk on a 42 yard pass to the Vandy 11. On 1st and 10 D-Mac was thrown for a 3 yard loss. On 2nd and 13 Mustain hit Ben Cleveland for a 14 yard TD.

Arkansas went up 21-13 and went on to win the game 21-19.

Now tell me that the season began, started and ended with the running game. The fact is, Nutt kept his job largely because a freshman quarterback in his first SEC game (on the road) played his butt off. And what did the kid get for it? The next week Nutt started going weird on him. Would not talk to him directly. Used a third party to communicate with him. Did not look at him or speak to him in the hallways of the BAC.

That definitely affected him the next week against Bama. He threw for just 97 yards and was picked three times. But the whole offense struggled. D-Mac managed 112 yards on 25 carries and scored once. So did Mustain, on an 11 yard pass to Cleveland in the 2nd overtime which won the game.

Joe Kines was Bama's defensive coordinator. I knew him well. Anybody that knows Joe will tell you that he's a no BS straight shooter. He told me after the game that he had built his whole defensive game plan around trying to rattle Mustain.

I'm paraphrasing here because after ten and a half years I can't recall 100% the exact words he used but it was very close to something like this: It (Bama's game plan) worked. We had that kid turned inside out. We were coming at him from all directions. In that overtime I was totally confident. And then, out of nowhere, he jumped up and hit that pass. Do you know how well we had it covered? Sometimes when a kid makes a play like that you just have to tip your hat and say, 'Great job. You got us.'

Again, did D-Mac score the winning TD? Felix? Hillis? Michael Smith?

After a bye week the Hogs went next to Auburn which was ranked No. 2 in the nation at the time. Nutt was determined at this point to take Mustain out of the picture. You can draw your own conclusions as to why but the kid went to Auburn pretty much knowing that his time as the starter was coming to an end. Still he fueled the first touchdown of the game. With a blitzing linebacker his face he found Monk a micro second before he was sacked on a pass that was good for a 50 yard touchdown. Midway through the 3rd quarter the woody play took the air out of the Auburn crowd. It would be great if we remembered Reggie Fish for that play and not the fumbled punt against Florida.

Mustain himself would be the first to say that the running game was the strength of that team. But early in the season when that winning streak was developing Mustain had an important hand in getting it started.

Clear thinking fans have always asked themselves, how much better would that kid have been had Nutt encouraged him instead of playing mind games with him?

It seriously was the dumbest thing I've seen in 41 seasons covering this program.

Mike Irwin

Here is the woody. See if you can tell when Mustain gives the ball to Reggie Fish. It is almost impossible to see. One of the best ball fakes I've ever seen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDFej7LGBu0

theFlyingHog

Quote from: Mike Irwin on June 25, 2017, 05:54:57 pm
Here is the woody. See if you can tell when Mustain gives the ball to Reggie Fish. It is almost impossible to see. One of the best ball fakes I've ever seen.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDFej7LGBu0
I can't see where Mustain ever even had the ball. I've watched it several times and never see it

PonderinHog

I think he backhanded it to him.  Turned left and handed it to him with his right hand, behind his back.  Very well executed.

bigyellowdog

Quote from: Pork Twain on June 10, 2017, 01:22:14 pm

Gus's offense is pure gimmick and I am not sure how you can defend that.

How many points did that "gimmick" score last year?

rhames

Quote from: bigyellowdog on June 26, 2017, 06:46:51 pm
How many points did that "gimmick" score last year?


I think they just scored again.
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MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: bigyellowdog on June 26, 2017, 06:46:51 pm
How many points did that "gimmick" score last year?

It's not a "gimmick" offense it is just an offense with a lot of moving parts and a slight of hand (misdirection) that sets up really good blocking angles for the O-Line and if the defense isn't really sharp and keeping their eyes in the right spots, it can deceive them pretty quickly. It isn't all that different on defense than defending the triple option, it is an offense that demands that a defense play their assignments and not allow the slight of hand to get them out of position. But with all of that motion and misdirection, if you allow your eyes to follow all of the motion, you will be out of position to make a play. Just play assignment football and you can shut it down, but it requires discipline and absolute dedication to and belief in the game plan.
Go Hogs Go!

ChicoHog

And with the right QB it's hard to stop.  Obviously Newton was a one of a kind guy with his physical ability but Nick Marshall was maybe the best zone read guy I have ever seen.  With other guys it hasn't been so unstoppable.  If the QB is not a strong running threat it just doesn't work as good.  And the O line plays a huge factor of course also just like it does with any other offense.