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Norvell and Memphis' historic season

Started by SquidBilly, November 20, 2017, 10:34:29 am

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jvanhorn

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 01:32:01 pm
Injuries are just an excuse, I read that on Hogville.

Well then it must be true, lol.  I have been a Major League Baseball fan for over 50 years and I can tell you injuries can devastate even the best team.

menace_hawg3

Memphis plays a little defense. Heck, they they are top 10 in take a ways.

 

jvanhorn

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 11:13:02 am
So, he is putting up points against teams that have little talent on defense ( which I agree there is little defensive talent in that league ) so how do we know that offense will work in the SEC, where some teams actually do have talent on defense?

So what?  You want some kind of written guarantee?   Do you think OU got a written guarantee when they hired assistant coach Bob Stoops or Lincoln Riley instead of a proven coach. Or Virginia Tech when they hired Fuentes? 

hawgball40

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 01:34:55 pm
Even Petrino had middle of the road defenses. That got him some 10+ win seasons. Never could let go of the athletes it took to field a championship defense though. Give me Venables and a good OC.
Bull darn. Our 2014 defense, ranked #10 in the country, was comprised mostly of petrino recruits (philon, flowers, smith, mitchell) (though you could argue the best player was spaight). He recruited them but never had the chance to put it on the field since he got fired. BP cared about defense. We were a solid defense in 2010 and 2011. We were well coached. We just got out schemed on some big pass plays and out talented on various occassions, leading to the moniker "bend dont break". those defenses were still very solid. go back and watch ramon broadway defend julio jones in 2010. its text book pass coverage. only problem was ramon broadway was 5'9 and julio jones was 6'6. We had some beast defensive players in 2010-2011, but we didn't have depth, speed at lib, or enough talent at db.

HF#1

Quote from: hawgball40 on November 20, 2017, 02:00:54 pm
Bull darn. Our 2014 defense, ranked #10 in the country, was comprised mostly of petrino recruits (philon, flowers, smith, mitchell) (though you could argue the best player was spaight). He recruited them but never had the chance to put it on the field since he got fired. BP cared about defense. We were a solid defense in 2010 and 2011. We were well coached. We just got out schemed on some big pass plays and out talented on various occassions, leading to the moniker "bend dont break". those defenses were still very solid. go back and watch ramon broadway defend julio jones in 2010. its text book pass coverage. only problem was ramon broadway was 5'9 and julio jones was 6'6. We had some beast defensive players in 2010-2011, but we didn't have depth or enough talent at cb.

2014 defense was the best Bielema had. He could only generate 7 wins.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

Danimal

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 01:34:55 pm
Even Petrino had middle of the road defenses. That got him some 10+ win seasons. Never could let go of the athletes it took to field a championship defense though. Give me Venables and a good OC.
I'll take that over Gus and his baggage any day.

Hoginsavga

Quote from: jvanhorn on November 20, 2017, 01:53:27 pm
I don't know if it will or not but I have seen an awful lot of scores lately in the 50 something to 40 something range.  Obviously he will have to upgrade his defense.  I suspect he know that just like Riley at OU knows, and god knows they have gotten pretty far without a great defense,  he is going to have to do the same.  You act like all these great young coaches are set in stone and can't adjust. But great coaches adjust all the time.  It is always a work in progress.  New offenses and defenses show up from time to time and the adjustments are made.  May take awhile because maybe you need a different type of player to make those adjustments but, as they say in baseball, speed never goes in a slump, lol.

This is true.  Today's brand of football is much more wide open than 15 or 20 years ago. When you look at scores of all games played not many contest end up with the winning team scoring less than 20 points. Even the losing team frequently scores 20 or more.

I think most coaches new to a job will install what they do best first to win and over time focus more on their weaknesses as time permits. I believe Norvell would do this and Petrino was also doing that at Arkansas his last year. As the saying goes you go with what you know and work on what you don't know.

GuvHog

Quote from: Danimal on November 20, 2017, 05:25:16 pm
I'll take that over Gus and his baggage any day.

THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ x 1000!!
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

SquidBilly

We've got to choose an identity.  Our problem the last couple of years is we have nothing we're good at.  With Norvell our identity would be offense, and we'd be really good at it.  Yes we may have to score 50 to win but so what, that's exciting football.  No one is interested in going to see a game that ends 3-0.  If we can be good on offense that puts pressure on the other team's offense because they know they are going to have to score a lot.  And last I checked the objective of the game is still to outscore your opponent.  Doesn't really matter how you do it.

IronHog

Quote from: HF#1 on November 20, 2017, 01:23:44 pm
It's like nobody pays attention to Alabama or Clemson. They can win big games and demolish virtually anyone because they play defense. Defense has and always will win championships.  Offense just wins games. Ask Petrino.


BP lost his last 5 games because either his offense or special teams had issues.

His defenses were far better than most of BBs units
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

Justagp

Quote from: Danimal on November 20, 2017, 11:03:55 am
I'm starting to fear that Gus is coming here, and Norvell winds up at Auburn -- then we spend the next several years being "taught a lesson"..
That would be just our luck.

Hawg Life


AirWarren


 

Justagp


clutch

Quote from: The Boar War on November 20, 2017, 12:46:50 pm
I would imagine longtime defensive coordinator Bud Foster has a lot to do with that.

I think that's his whole point. If Norvell brings in a good D coordinator, then he could follow the same path. Fuente wasn't known for fielding good defenses, but was able to retain a very good D coordinator and now he coaches a team that's defensively pretty good.

Pork Twain

I am more concerned that his teams do not even know what defense is.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

clutch

Quote from: Pork Twain on November 20, 2017, 09:19:00 pm
I am more concerned that his teams do not even know what defense is.

They know what takeaways are. They play a very aggressive style of defense that is high risk/high reward. It works for them in the conference they are in. I'm sure he'd adapt once he came into the SEC. That's what coaches do, adapt to their situations or get fired.

Pork Twain

Quote from: clutch on November 20, 2017, 09:26:43 pm
They know what takeaways are. They play a very aggressive style of defense that is high risk/high reward. It works for them in the conference they are in. I'm sure he'd adapt once he came into the SEC. That's what coaches do, adapt to their situations or get fired.
That is a very big assumption.  It would seem that in order to fit his style of offense, he would need to employ a similar defense as he is now or possibly start from scratch.  I would prefer a coach with a little more balance to his teams.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

#1 STUNNA

Does anyone pay attention..lol... the guy is missing 6 starters on defense with season ending injuries... the most in the NCAA... and he keeps winning.

SquidBilly

Quote from: #1 STUNNA on November 21, 2017, 09:56:02 am
Does anyone pay attention..lol... the guy is missing 6 starters on defense with season ending injuries... the most in the NCAA... and he keeps winning.

No they're all hung up on he only has two years of HC experience.  If a guy can coach, he can coach.  It doesn't take twenty years and three jobs for him to be able to prove it enough to be considered for the job here.  He's taken Memphis to success they've not had in a long time in a much improved Sunbelt conference.  To me that says he knows what he is doing.

HF#1

Your Norvell dreams may be dashed. Looks like Ole Miss has already jumped on him according to Bo Bounds.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

SquidBilly

Quote from: HF#1 on November 21, 2017, 10:01:46 am
Your Norvell dreams may be dashed. Looks like Ole Miss has already jumped on him according to Bo Bounds.

If that is the case then we are idiots.  He needs to be our next head coach.

ipigsooie

Oh I'm sure jimmy sexton is doing his job. We would get him too cheap if there was nobody else interested.

LuckyGiraffe

Quote from: jvanhorn on November 20, 2017, 01:56:17 pm
Well then it must be true, lol.  I have been a Major League Baseball fan for over 50 years and I can tell you injuries can devastate even the best team.

At least Norvell recognizes that when you have the number of injuries on defense that Memphis had this year, his only chance to win games was to outscore opponents. He had a plan to do that, and it has largely worked. This has been said a lot on HV, but I'm tired of trying to be the team that plays Alabama's style of play without the depth of talent that Alabama has.

 

SquidBilly

Quote from: LuckyGiraffe on November 21, 2017, 10:34:41 am
At least Norvell recognizes that when you have the number of injuries on defense that Memphis had this year, his only chance to win games was to outscore opponents. He had a plan to do that, and it has largely worked. This has been said a lot on HV, but I'm tired of trying to be the team that plays Alabama's style of play without the depth of talent that Alabama has.

And look at how Alabama has changed.  They aren't winning games 9-3 anymore either.  Some people think it takes some all world defensive effort to win in the SEC, when in simple terms you just have to score 1 more point than they do.  A win 55-49 is no different than a win 6-0.  Either way you outscored the opponent by 6 points.

hogsanity

Quote from: LuckyGiraffe on November 21, 2017, 10:34:41 am
At least Norvell recognizes that when you have the number of injuries on defense that Memphis had this year, his only chance to win games was to outscore opponents. He had a plan to do that, and it has largely worked. This has been said a lot on HV, but I'm tired of trying to be the team that plays Alabama's style of play without the depth of talent that Alabama has.

It works in a league that plays little defense. They ran into one team with a solid D and got stomped.

Quote from: Bret Squealema on November 21, 2017, 10:05:12 am
If that is the case then we are idiots.  He needs to be our next head coach.

If that is the case the Norvell is an idiot with all the possible sanctions old misses is going to face,
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogfansince79

Quote from: hogsanity on November 21, 2017, 02:27:45 pm
It works in a league that plays little defense. They ran into one team with a solid D and got stomped.

If that is the case the Norvell is an idiot with all the possible sanctions old misses is going to face,

Jeez... you sound like a broken record.  All you talk about is one [CENSORED] game.  They played nine other games, and won all nine.  UCLA and Navy were both ranked #25 when the lost to Memphis.

Yep, UCF is the real deal, but Memphis is no slouch.
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went." — Will Rogers

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that." — George Carlin

jkstock04

Quote from: hogsanity on November 20, 2017, 11:08:29 am
Memphis plays none. They have given up over 30 6 times, and over 40 3 times. That will not work in a p5 league.
Seems to work in the big 12. I agree though...I like Norvell and would like to see him here, but their defense really sucks.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

Paul

Quote from: The Boar War on November 20, 2017, 12:46:50 pm
I would imagine longtime defensive coordinator Bud Foster has a lot to do with that.
Sure you're right.  So use the 3 million u save hiring Norvell( a younger Gus) instead of Gus & hire the next Bud Foster.  Then you'll have it covered on best sides of the field for a long time if not their entire careers.  see how that works?

Paul

Quote from: HoginMemphis on November 20, 2017, 01:28:54 pm
SMU scored 45 on them, so no, he has zero defense there. And no defense in SEC = getting your ass whipped into a gooey mess by top 5 or 6 teams in SEC about every season.
We know all about that

HawgTide

Quote from: Pork Twain on November 20, 2017, 09:31:07 pm
That is a very big assumption.  It would seem that in order to fit his style of offense, he would need to employ a similar defense as he is now or possibly start from scratch.  I would prefer a coach with a little more balance to his teams.

CBB was extremely balanced when we hired him

rlreev01

Norvell? How many QB's that he's recruited has started for him? How many players from Texas does he recruit? This is not a good idea!!!

The Hogfather

Quote from: Bret Squealema on November 20, 2017, 10:34:29 am
I've heard time and again on here how he is too inexperienced and is only winning with Fuente's players.  Well apparently he has Memphis football succeeding at historic levels, levels that Justin Fuente was never able to achieve.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/football/2017/11/19/memphis-tigers-football-moves-up-rankings-after-securing-aac-championship-game-berth/878808001/

Stan Heath had a historic season at Kent St.

Paul

Quote from: rlreev01 on November 21, 2017, 06:47:26 pm
Norvell? How many QB's that he's recruited has started for him? How many players from Texas does he recruit? This is not a good idea!!!
he recruited Ferguson who was out of football to Memphis. To answer your 2nd question look at his roster & see the 1st & 2nd yr players including transfers & you'll have the  answer u seek

hawgball40

Quote from: The Hogfather on November 21, 2017, 06:49:33 pm
Stan Heath had a historic season at Kent St.
Couldn't the same be said about Mike Anderson at UAB?

Paul


GuvHog

Quote from: Paul on November 22, 2017, 12:17:40 am
he recruited Ferguson who was out of football to Memphis. To answer your 2nd question look at his roster & see the 1st & 2nd yr players including transfers & you’ll have the  answer u seek

Yep, 13 out of the 22 Memphis starters are Norvell recruits.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

synthartist69


The Hogfather

Quote from: hawgball40 on November 22, 2017, 12:42:32 pm
Couldn't the same be said about Mike Anderson at UAB?

No, it couldn't.  Thanks for asking!

hawgball40

Quote from: The Hogfather on November 22, 2017, 01:13:33 pm
No, it couldn't.  Thanks for asking!
Why not? An elite 8 at a small school like UAB should qualify as a historic season, no?

The Hogfather

Quote from: hawgball40 on November 22, 2017, 02:54:44 pm
Why not? An elite 8 at a small school like UAB should qualify as a historic season, no?

He didn't go to an Elite 8 at UAB.  Also, he built and sustained UAB.  Here are the 3 years before he got there:

1999–00   UAB   14–14   7–9   T–3rd   
2000–01   UAB   17–14   8–8   4th
2001–02   UAB   13–17   6–10   T–4th

No NCAAs or NITs.

Anderson came in and went:

2002–03   UAB   21–13   8–8   T–2nd (Nat.)   NIT Quarterfinals
2003–04   UAB   22–10   12–4   T–1st        NCAA Sweet 16
2004–05   UAB   22–11   10–6   T–4th       NCAA Round of 32
2005–06   UAB   24–7           12–2    2nd                NCAA Round of 64

He then went on to do very well at Missouri, which is when we hired him.

Stan Heath had one year as a head coach at Kent State.  They went 30-6 with none of the players he recruited and we hired him the next year.

Norvell has only had one full season and is in his 2nd.  Many of the players there were either only partly recruited by him or not recruited by him at all.  MAJOR UNKNOWN, just like Stan Heath was.

TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN MIKE ANDERSON.

HF#1

"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."  <br /><br />Benjamin Franklin

jvanhorn

Look this guy is going to be a head coach at a major college.  The only question is when and where.  All the rest is just us flapping our gums.  We will either be very glad we hired him or very sad someone else in the SEC hired him if he turns out to be the real deal.

The Hogfather

Quote from: jvanhorn on November 22, 2017, 04:37:30 pm
Look this guy is going to be a head coach at a major college.  The only question is when and where.  All the rest is just us flapping our gums.  We will either be very glad we hired him or very sad someone else in the SEC hired him if he turns out to be the real deal.

Thanks for all of this insight.  I'm hoping we end up with Kiffin, although I don't think they are looking his way at all.  I don't think Norvell could hold a candle to him.  Kiffin has SEC experience (both as a head coach and an OC under one of the greatest head coaches of all time), a high powered offense, has more swagger, has coached in the NFL, etc.

Arkansas Fan

I agree we'll need to play defense under any coach here, but Norvell would bring the offense at least.

clutch

Quote from: rlreev01 on November 21, 2017, 06:47:26 pm
Norvell? How many QB's that he's recruited has started for him? How many players from Texas does he recruit? This is not a good idea!!!

1/1 on QB's he's recruited that started for him. Recruits a bunch of players from Texas. He has 7 players on the roster that he recruited from Texas. Only 3 Texas players are there from the previous staff.


Batesville Hogfan

Quote from: Bret Squealema on November 20, 2017, 10:34:29 am
I've heard time and again on here how he is too inexperienced and is only winning with Fuente's players.  Well apparently he has Memphis football succeeding at historic levels, levels that Justin Fuente was never able to achieve.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/football/2017/11/19/memphis-tigers-football-moves-up-rankings-after-securing-aac-championship-game-berth/878808001/
The same case could have been and probably was made about Stan Heath right before we hired him.  The fact of the matter is Fuentes took over a 2 win team and in years 3-4 won 19 combined games.  Fuentes has won 17 with the possibility for more but he definitely had an easier road than Fuentes so your argument is flawed.

Brent Venables would be a better choice.  He's been an assistant under Snyder, Stoops, and Sweeney and been a DC on 2 national championship teams.  Helped put Clemson over the top in terms of elite status.  Won the Broyles Award last year I think.  Doesn't move around a lot so if he does well we probably would hang onto him for several years.

jvanhorn

Quote from: Batesville Hogfan on November 22, 2017, 04:55:22 pm
The same case could have been and probably was made about Stan Heath right before we hired him.  The fact of the matter is Fuentes took over a 2 win team and in years 3-4 won 19 combined games.  Fuentes has won 17 with the possibility for more but he definitely had an easier road than Fuentes so your argument is flawed.

Brent Venables would be a better choice.  He's been an assistant under Snyder, Stoops, and Sweeney and been a DC on 2 national championship teams.  Helped put Clemson over the top in terms of elite status.  Won the Broyles Award last year I think.  Doesn't move around a lot so if he does well we probably would hang onto him for several years.

Venebles might be the coach in waiting at Clemson.  I wouldn't be surprised when Saban finally retires that Dabo doesn't take his place and Venebles takes over as head coach at Clemson.  Venebles doesn't seem like much of a man who just likes to go from school to school.


Pork Twain

Quote from: hogfansince79 on November 21, 2017, 03:12:13 pm
Jeez... you sound like a broken record.  All you talk about is one [CENSORED] game.  They played nine other games, and won all nine.  UCLA and Navy were both ranked #25 when the lost to Memphis.

Yep, UCF is the real deal, but Memphis is no slouch.
It is kind of an important game, because he will be playing solid defenses here every week and his amazing offensive numbers against other teams that do not play defense, should not be what you are building your support for him on.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/