Rivals Recruiting Ranking - Hogs @ #25

[DeltaBoy]

Great day for hog fans.

[hogsanity]

I do know Bobby would not have gone 3-9 two years in a row.

Really? Do you know the power ball #'s for tonight?

[hogcard1964]

I will say this much, this is the least fan fair for signing day I've seen on here in ages.

It seems like a lot of folks just don't care as much.

[Pork Twain]

I will say this much, this is the least fan fair for signing day I've seen on here in ages.

It seems like a lot of folks just don't care as much.

Possible that there are just not as many surprises with this staff.  Those that are bitching usually make the most noise, as you well know, so they are quiet without anything to complain about.

[hogcard1964]

Possible that there are just not as many surprises with this staff.  Those that are bitching usually make the most noise, as you well know, so they are quiet without anything to complain about.

I think like most Razorback fans, I'm conditioned to expect something horrible to happen. Which is great because when something good does happen its unexpected and even better.  I think a lot of folks are tired of hearing about how good the recruiting is, and then nothing come of it.

[Derjen]

8th in the league.  Probably where we finish next season.

At least you're being positive

[hobhog]

I think like most Razorback fans, I'm conditioned to expect something horrible to happen. Which is great because when something good does happen its unexpected and even better.  I think a lot of folks are tired of hearing about how good the recruiting is, and then nothing come of it.

We have had some very good players......

[Bubba's Bruisers]

We have had some very good players......

He's talking about our record.  Nobody is arguing that we've had some very good players.  Just not enough.

[BielemaBrilliance]

I am ok with being in top 25 considering how we played our last two games. Better than being ranked #70.

[HiggiePiggy]

we've got to start reaching for a higher recruiting rank

What do you suggest Arkansas do to get a higher ranking?

[Bubba's Bruisers]

We've had the players to have a better record than we experienced this past season.

If you don't have great coaching, you better have at least very good recruiting.

If you don't have great recruiting, you better have at least very good coaching.

Agreed.  Hopefully this season was an anomaly.  But my point is a more general one.

[Pig Worshipper]

What do you suggest Arkansas do to get a higher ranking?

Pay off the people setting the rankings? Recruiting at a higher level does not appear to be an option.

[trippigs]

About where we typically rank I think.....and it takes a yeoman effort the place there.

[JOKERHOG]

I'm not here to debate any recruiting service over another, but I just glanced at Scout and found one thing interesting.  Arkansas, ranked 27th, has 5 JUCO commits among its 24.  The entire top 25 in the Scout rankings have a total of 16 JUCOs.

Seems like someone is maybe feeling a sense of urgency.

About time a fire gets lit under the big lazy

[HiggiePiggy]

We've had the players to have a better record than we experienced this past season.

If you don't have great coaching, you better have at least very good recruiting.

If you don't have great recruiting, you better have at least very good coaching.

Last couple of years we have let games get away.  Last year should have been a 9 win season.  The year before that should have been a 9 or 10 win season.  Our team lacks offense in the second half of games.  We were 123rd in scoring in the second half last year. 2013 we were 104th. Even with our bad defense we still should have won 9 last year. 

[ChitownHawg]

Possible that there are just not as many surprises with this staff.  Those that are bitching usually make the most noise, as you well know, so they are quiet without anything to complain about.

Yep. Some don't post for a season or two - then melt in the last two games and here they come posting. Now we have a solid recruiting class and under the baseboards they scurry. 

[Iwastherein1969]

and Miss St beats us again, along with South Carolina in recruiting....why did we even build that new football complex up there, we are getting the same ol' one or two top shelf players and the rest are merely guesses....I used to laugh at recruiting Ross Ragner, but I'd give anything to have that guy right now...Bielema is not long for here...10's of millions of dollars spent for essentially nothing..window dressing

[lahawg1]

How many think we can win a SEC championship in 3-4 years?

[RME]

and Miss St beats us again, along with South Carolina in recruiting....why did we even build that new football complex up there, we are getting the same ol' one or two top shelf players and the rest are merely guesses....I used to laugh at recruiting Ross Ragner, but I'd give anything to have that guy right now...Bielema is not long for here...10's of millions of dollars spent for essentially nothing..window dressing

This place will become so much better the day* that people like you realize how absolutely vital a university's location is in recruiting.



*also known as "the end of the world"

[Bubba's Bruisers]

and Miss St beats us again, along with South Carolina in recruiting....why did we even build that new football complex up there, we are getting the same ol' one or two top shelf players and the rest are merely guesses....I used to laugh at recruiting Ross Ragner, but I'd give anything to have that guy right now...Bielema is not long for here...10's of millions of dollars spent for essentially nothing..window dressing

You build it simply to keep up.  To maintain what you have.  It likely won't improve recruiting, but not constantly upgrading would definitely hurt recruiting.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

How many think we can win a SEC championship in 3-4 years?

The landscape would have to change drastically for it to happen.  So very, very unlikely.

[DLUXHOG]

LOL on OM.

and Texass....

[rickfahr]

Who is Coach Bielema?

What am I missing here?

[ChitownHawg]

and Miss St beats us again, along with South Carolina in recruiting....why did we even build that new football complex up there, we are getting the same ol' one or two top shelf players and the rest are merely guesses....I used to laugh at recruiting Ross Ragner, but I'd give anything to have that guy right now...Bielema is not long for here...10's of millions of dollars spent for essentially nothing..window dressing

I wish you were not long for here.   

[HiggiePiggy]

How many think we can win a SEC championship in 3-4 years?

I don't think we can, but if the offense stops stalling in the second half and we get a defense that is better then we could possibly see 10 win seasons again pretty soon.

[Pork Twain]

This place will become so much better the day* that people like you realize how absolutely vital a university's location is in recruiting.



*also known as "the end of the world"

That along with numerous other factors that are stacked against any coach we have.

[factchecker]

http://usatodayhss.com/2017/latest-2017-college-football-recruiting-composite-team-rankings

[Pig In The City]

I will say this much, this is the least fan fair for signing day I've seen on here in ages.

It seems like a lot of folks just don't care as much.

There does seem to be a lack of interest in the program right now. Four years later I think fans expected more.

[ChitownHawg]

There does seem to be a lack of interest in the program right now. Four years later I think fans expected more.

As a Hog fan, how can you have a lack of interest? That seems kind of "soapboxy" to me.

[bob slydell]

This place will become so much better the day* that people like you realize how absolutely vital a university's location is in recruiting.



*also known as "the end of the world"

Ha Ha.  You mean proximity to recruits I'm assuming.  Cause you can't possibly be referring to being located in Starkville, MS.  Don't disagree; just wanted to clarify.

[hogsanity]

Ha Ha.  You mean proximity to recruits I'm assuming.  Cause you can't possibly be referring to being located in Starkville, MS.  Don't disagree; just wanted to clarify.

Yes, proximity. Easy way to see it, draw a circle around Fayetteville, make it any size you want, 100, 200, 300, 500 miles, and see how many sec p5 signees come from that circle, 4 stars, 5 stars, etc. Now do the same for all the other sec schools. The numbers will blow your mind.

[DeltaBoy]

These services always lowball us.

[Iwastherein1969]

You build it simply to keep up.  To maintain what you have.  It likely won't improve recruiting, but not constantly upgrading would definitely hurt recruiting.

so what you are saying is that 30 million dollars merely keep your program farting down wind ?  I can't stand Nutt, but he did better than this

[ChitownHawg]

so what you are saying is that 30 million dollars merely keep your program farting down wind ?  I can't stand Nutt, but he did better than this

Don't be that ignorant. You know that is not a logical statement. SEC W is far more competitive now than then. Look how he got his butt handed to him at Ole Miss. His record was better in a less competitive environment.

But you just want to mope around, so carry on.

[Hoggiedawg]

Who cares what the ranking is?  Just win, baby.

[Inhogswetrust]

We still need to improve to get better.

Or as Yogi would say "improvement is better".

[Bubba's Bruisers]

so what you are saying is that 30 million dollars merely keep your program farting down wind ?  I can't stand Nutt, but he did better than this

Recruiting pretty much always been what it is...no matter the facilities.  So yes, maybe the new facilities results in a slight up tick, but I doubt much more than that, because everybody is updating their facilities all the time.  We won't be special.  We have to upgrade just to keep up. 

Speaking generally, too many fans choose to live in a bubble.  They only see their own program and always think it's the bomb.  Nevermind the fact that's there's a whole other world out there of competing programs with fantastic facilities too.

[Steef]

so what you are saying is that 30 million dollars merely keep your program farting down wind ?  I can't stand Nutt, but he did better than this

I have lost 90% of my faith in Bret as a coach.

And in a coma, he's still better than Nutt on his best day.

And he's a better man, to boot.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

I have lost 90% of my faith in Bret as a coach.

And in a coma, he's still better than Nutt on his best day.

And he's a better man, to boot.

Troof.  Except the 90% part.  I'm still 50/50 on Bret. 

[factchecker]

2002: 25  http://247sports.com/Season/2002-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2003: 42  http://247sports.com/Season/2003-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2004: 24  http://247sports.com/Season/2004-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2005: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2005-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2006: 25  http://247sports.com/Season/2006-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2007: 38  http://247sports.com/Season/2007-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Houston Nutt's Average Recruiting Class(final 6 cycles):  30.3

2008: 27  http://247sports.com/Season/2008-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2009: 21  http://247sports.com/Season/2009-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2010: 41  http://247sports.com/Season/2010-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2011: 21  http://247sports.com/Season/2011-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2012: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2012-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bobby Petrino's Average Recruiting Class: 27.6

2013: 23  http://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2014: 29  http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2015: 23  http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2016: 26  http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2017: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bret Bielema's Average Recruiting Class: 25.8

[ChitownHawg]

2002: 25  http://247sports.com/Season/2002-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2003: 42  http://247sports.com/Season/2003-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2004: 24  http://247sports.com/Season/2004-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2005: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2005-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2006: 25  http://247sports.com/Season/2006-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2007: 38  http://247sports.com/Season/2007-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Houston Nutt's Average Recruiting Class(final 6 cycles):  30.3

2008: 27  http://247sports.com/Season/2008-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2009: 21  http://247sports.com/Season/2009-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2010: 41  http://247sports.com/Season/2010-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2011: 21  http://247sports.com/Season/2011-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2012: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2012-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bobby Petrino's Average Recruiting Class: 27.6

2013: 23  http://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2014: 29  http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2015: 23  http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2016: 26  http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2017: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2017-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bret Bielema's Average Recruiting Class: 25.8

I also like CBB's argument to split his fours years in half. Look at his SEC ranking the first two years places us at the bottom with KY. The last two years places us at fourth (?). He said if we had won the last two games our last two year record would place us second.

Looking at our record from that perspective does show growth. Just as your stats show growth in recruiting so does CBB's view of the last two years.

[HiggiePiggy]

Shows growth, but also shows lack of adjusting to second half for 4 years now.  We were in the top 25 in scoring in the first half I believe, but second half we were ranked 123rd. The worse second half offense so far of his time here that includes his first year where he was 104th in the league. We need to start seeing adjustments in the second half that can get us to scoring in the 60th or better or we will continue to see the melt downs in the second half that we have seen a couple of times every year he has coached here. 

[ChitownHawg]

Shows growth, but also shows lack of adjusting to second half for 4 years now.  We were in the top 25 in scoring in the first half I believe, but second half we were ranked 123rd. The worse second half offense so far of his time here that includes his first year where he was 104th in the league. We need to start seeing adjustments in the second half that can get us to scoring in the 60th or better or we will continue to see the melt downs in the second half that we have seen a couple of times every year he has coached here.

What was the second half ranking for 2015? If my memory is correct BA was pretty special late in games. That would fly in the face of your argument. So what was the ranking?

[lutherheggs]

Recruiting pretty much always been what it is...no matter the facilities.  So yes, maybe the new facilities results in a slight up tick, but I doubt much more than that, because everybody is updating their facilities all the time.  We won't be special.  We have to upgrade just to keep up. 

Speaking generally, too many fans choose to live in a bubble.  They only see their own program and always think it's the bomb.  Nevermind the fact that's there's a whole other world out there of competing programs with fantastic facilities too.

Heck, Arkansas did not have lights at Razorback Stadium until mid to late '80's and a stadium that held less than 50,000. Yet we still competed for players with all the programs in Texas and elsewhere. Now, we have the latest greatest of everything and about to spend $200 million to add 3,000 seats and can't sign more than 2 players from the state of Texas. Facilities do not matter as much as program tradition and who the head coach is.

[HiggiePiggy]

What was the second half ranking for 2015? If my memory is correct BA was pretty special late in games. That would fly in the face of your argument. So what was the ranking?

It was in the 60s and it was our best season so far. 

2013 104th 3-9 lost 3 games when leading or tied in the second half
2014 101st 7-6  lost 5 games when leading or tied  in the second half
2015 64th 8-5   Lost 4 games when leading or tied  in the second half
2016 123rd 7-6 lost 3 games when leading or tied in the second half.

That is 15 games in 4 years where we were either tied or leading at some point in the selncd half and we ended up losing.  Our second half scoring is crap and has been for awhile. Our best season was 64th and we lost games in the second half of that season many times also.

If our offense is getting into the 50s and 60s and our defense is just a little better than these last 2 years we will win 8 or 9 games. So they need to figure out how to score in the second half. Especially if our defense is going to be as terrible as it has been the last 2 years.

We are really good at first half of games.  We don't show up for a second half in almost all of our games. 

Games where we were tied or losing in the second half and won

2013 - 1
2014 - 0
2015 - 3
2016 - 2

6 games we were either tied or losing in the second half that we ended up winning.

[ricepig]

Heck, Arkansas did not have lights at Razorback Stadium until mid to late '80's and a stadium that held less than 50,000. Yet we still competed for players with all the programs in Texas and elsewhere. Now, we have the latest greatest of everything and about to spend $200 million to add 3,000 seats and can't sign more than 2 players from the state of Texas. Facilities do not matter as much as program tradition and who the head coach is.

Who gives a frick about Texas? Sign the best players from wherever, location doesn't matter. It won't be $200M even with interest, for one, the bond issue ended up being for $107M, and it will be paid off early, like all of our projects.

[HiggiePiggy]

Another stat of how we played the first half and didn't show up in the second half.

2013
(Cheney offense) and our defense

1st half of games overall and (just sec games)
131 points scored        175 points allowed
(74).                           (151)

2nd half
117 points scored.        194 points allowed
(61).                            (152)

So year one we were just terrible on both sides. New coach new system and we didn't expect to do much anyway, but we also lost 3 games where we were tied or leading in the second half.

2014
(Cheney offense) and our defense

1st half overall and (sec)
274 points scored       128   Points allowed
(105)                        (93)

2nd half overall and (sec)
139 points scored.      122 points allowed
(60).                         (84)

Year 2 we scored better in the first half, but like 2013 we didn't show up much in the second half on the offensive side of the ball and scored a ton on our bad non conference teams.

2015
(Enos offense) and our defense.

1st half overall and (sec)
240 points scored       166 points allowed
(125).                        (95)

2nd half overall and (sec)
227 points scored        194 points allowed
(150)                          (146)

Year one of enos wasn't bad at all on both sides except with some bad non conference losses, but the offense did much better in the second half of games
And ended with our best season so far under Beliema.

2016
(Enos offense) and our "wonderful defense"

1st half overall and (sec)
257 points scored      170 points allowed
(147)                        (149)

2nd half overall and (sec)
137 points scored.     234 points allowed
(67).                        (149)

So year 4 we could do some pretty good scoring in the sec in the first half we were able to keep up with the defense giving up points so much. Second half though was a different story. Defense didn't help much and the offense stopped playing. 

So pretty much it tells me that we make very little adjustments at halftime or unable to adjust during the second half of games. So this needs to get a lot better if we want to see 8 to 10 wins next year. Which all it takes is showing up in the second half just a little more than 123rd in the nation on offense and our defense be in the middle of 2014 and 2015.