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Want to know what is a huge problem in recruiting? The #102

Started by hogsanity, October 30, 2017, 10:50:33 am

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Atlhogfan1

Quote from: 311Hog on November 01, 2017, 09:39:46 am
You make an interesting point.  When i was in HS in the Mid 90's almost everyone in the state ran power football so the transition for kids like Madre Hill and Grant Garrett was an easy one following your logic.

While i think the OP is dead on with a serious issue for our state on multiple levels it could also be that simply the "rise" of 7 on 7 HUNH, spread offense and 2 hand touch CB play along with almost "no glory for defense" style of football has done as much to "kill" the hogs effectiveness in recent years.

My feeling/experience has always been that the state produces a handfull of legit D1 SEC type players from High schools across the state and they meet up at the UofA united in their love for the hogs and the state that was fostered their whole lives growing up in Arkansas.  that maybe slipping some.

Let's look at Texas and the Big 12 as a whole.  This is where we have seen the real damage from spread offense football seeping up to negatively affect college football programs. 

Arkansas' top ranked recruits in recent classes:

2014
DT - Hogs
DT - Bama
WDE - Memphis
RB - Hogs
ILB - Wake
TE - Hogs
SDE - Hogs
PRO QB - Tulsa
S - Hogs
ATH - Tulsa

How did spread offense football have an affect on what the Hogs run from this class?
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Pig Papi

Quote from: ShadowHawg on October 30, 2017, 11:51:14 am
Not true. My stepson graduated from a magnet school in LR. I noticed there were several kids that were absolutely built for football but not high major basketball. Guess which sport they played.

A lot of them made good grades and obviously were in school.

I also watched some of the state tournaments last year. Same thing. Lots of kids with football bodies playing basketball but not football. They too are obviously in school.

These days you basically have to choose a sport. Basketball and baseball are year round sports now. Football isn't.

I talked with a LR AD last year.  He said they had 40 kids go out for football and 95 go out for basketball.  For the 15 or so kids that make the basketball team that is great.  What happens with the other 80 kids that don't make the team?  I feel quite certain there are some DBs, WRs, DEs, etc that would really help on a football field.

 

Atlhogfan1

2015
WR Oh St
TE Hogs
TE Hogs
SDE Hogs
PRO QB Hogs
PRO QB Cincy
OT Hogs - Here is one maybe affected by spread offense from high school.  Or maybe just a 3 star having to try and step up and play in the SEC.
RB
ATH Hogs
DT Hogs
WR Hogs - maybe needed to learn to run routes, from Highland HS so not exactly an easy step up to SEC football no matter the system - the poor level of competition in Ark HS football doesn't help either no matter system as far as players being ready
S Hogs

2016
SDE Hogs
DT Hogs
ATH Hogs
WR Hogs
RB Mizzou - when we signed higher rated out of state recruits
SDE Memphis
WDE
CB Minnesota
DT Texas Tech
DT Ok St


Where is all of this spread offense talent in Ark high schools?

2017
S Hogs
DT Mizzou
WR Hogs
Ath Hogs
OT Hogs - wouldn't matter spread or not, a 3 star OT from smalltown Ar should be redshirting
PRO QB - Mizzou - finally a spread offense player going to a P5 spread offense program
ATH - Baylor - hey another one
CB - OU
WR - Iowa St
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

hogsanity

Quote from: Pig Papi on November 01, 2017, 09:51:26 am
I talked with a LR AD last year.  He said they had 40 kids go out for football and 95 go out for basketball.  For the 15 or so kids that make the basketball team that is great.  What happens with the other 80 kids that don't make the team?  I feel quite certain there are some DBs, WRs, DEs, etc that would really help on a football field.

A lot of kids just do not want to play football. They do not want to go to off season, go to practices in August, have a coach yell at them all the time, and for many of them stand on the sidelines and rarely if ever play. Plus, basketball can be played anywhere. Don't make the school team and you can still go play city league ball in many places, or playground ball. Where else can you play football if you are not getting playing time at school?

I called a 8th grade game a couple weeks ago, and one of the teams had roughly 35 players on it. Only 14 of the played a snap ( it was my side to count on and off so it was easy to keep track of ). IS it any wonder that next year, when that group is in the 9th grade, instead of 35 they will have 25? Why would a kid that never played as a 8th grader come back as a 9th grader?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Pig in the Pokey

Quote from: ShadowHawg on October 30, 2017, 11:21:39 am
Topography is the biggest reason for this.

There are tons of schools within short distances as the crow flies that are 45 minute drives because rivers have to be crossed or mountain roads are very curvy, etc.

This state isn't flat and you can only cross a river where they build a bridge. It really is about necessity because Arkansas had a massive consolidation effort in the late 90s early 2000's.

The real problem is that athletes are choosing basketball over football these days, not the size of the schools the play for.
so what? combine the districts for football. DONE. EZ PEASY
You must be on one if you think i aint on one! ¥420¥   «roastin da bomb in fayettenam» Purspirit Gang

hogsanity

Quote from: Pig in the Pokey on November 01, 2017, 10:30:45 am
so what? combine the districts for football. DONE. EZ PEASY

Except for the fight about who gets to have the team in their town. Hackett and Hartford did this, and they have maybe 1 or 2 kids from Hartford go to hackett to play football. Hartford still has their own basketball and baseball teams. Of course it was a yearly battle to see if they would have enough to field a football team or not.

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 01, 2017, 09:57:03 am

Where is all of this spread offense talent in Ark high schools?


They see the successful teams in AR run the spread, therefore they think they must be the teams with the best individual players. Greenwood is so good because those kids have been in that system since they were 7. They play excellent team ball. But in the last decade, how many p5 scholarship football players has GW produced ( I have no idea what the answer is but I am guessing under 8 ). This is a 6a school that has dominated for a decade.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: hogsanity on November 01, 2017, 10:42:18 am
Except for the fight about who gets to have the team in their town. Hackett and Hartford did this, and they have maybe 1 or 2 kids from Hartford go to hackett to play football. Hartford still has their own basketball and baseball teams. Of course it was a yearly battle to see if they would have enough to field a football team or not.

They see the successful teams in AR run the spread, therefore they think they must be the teams with the best individual players. Greenwood is so good because those kids have been in that system since they were 7. They play excellent team ball. But in the last decade, how many p5 scholarship football players has GW produced ( I have no idea what the answer is but I am guessing under 8 ). This is a 6a school that has dominated for a decade.

GW at least produces QBs and WRs who are recruited by programs on the level or Arkansas.  The 7A West?  The Allen brothers, a few olinemen spreadout over classes.  And the spread nonsense probably sets their development back.  But there is so little in Arkansas no matter the system. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

wildturkey8

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 10:50:33 am
102 is how many HS football games were played in Ar last weekend. That means that there are at least 204 HS football teams in this state, a state with a population of under 3mil. A state where they can not fund schools properly has 204 that play football. Many of those teams field 24 or fewer players. How many of those tiny teams have a kid that, if he played on a better team with better facilities, better coaching, better competition would be better players? How many kids at bigger schools could be even better if state funds were not being spent on all these hole in the road districts that outlived their need decades ago?

You know how many school districts Fla has? 74. Bama has 132. Miss 163. LA 85. TN 163. SC 89

ARKANSAS HAS 315. The smallest state in the SEC, by population, has the most schools districts except for Mizzu which has 527.

This goes well beyond athletics, but since this is a football message board I will leave at just the player development aspect for this discussion.
I don't always agree with Hogsanity but this is a problem.  Arkansas has a 19th century public school system.

hogsanity

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on November 01, 2017, 10:52:40 am

But there is so little in Arkansas no matter the system. 


And that is the crux of the issue right there. There is not that much p5 talent, yet half of the roster is in state players. And the Hogs look like a AR HS team, small and slow when compared to their peers from other states.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

311Hog

Quote from: hogsanity on November 01, 2017, 11:10:24 am
And that is the crux of the issue right there. There is not that much p5 talent, yet half of the roster is in state players. And the Hogs look like a AR HS team, small and slow when compared to their peers from other states.

the other side of the issue is that of the "few in numbers" P5 talent is academically eligible.  I know or have seen as i am sure many others have incredibly talented kids in a sport any sport fall by the wayside before they even got out of the 9th grade.

You could field a small D1 team just with kids that fell through the cracks.

al_pigcino

There's nothing wrong with supplement players from Arkansas (I would think maybe a 1/4 to 1/3 of the roster) if you have built a developmental program.  A lot of the A/AA/AAA/AAAA schools have talent but it's raw.  You would spend 2-3 years on a lot of these kids.  It's hard for Arkansas because we are behind the 8 ball to start with.  How do you start 5th year seniors when the freshmen are more talented? 

bphi11ips

The key to Arkansas football is the Dallas and Little Rock metro areas. Always has been, always will be.  One is undermined, the other is underdeveloped.

Central Arkansas needs a well-developed, comprehensive youth football league.  Middle Tennessee has a great program.  By the time kids here reach middle school they know how to play football and have developed a love for the sport.  Many of our out-of-state recruits have said they played for 10 years or more by the time they reached Arkansas.  How many of our in-state recruits can say that?

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

DeltaBoy

Quote from: bphi11ips on November 01, 2017, 12:38:30 pm
The key to Arkansas football is the Dallas and Little Rock metro areas. Always has been, always will be.  One is undermined, the other is underdeveloped.

Central Arkansas needs a well-developed, comprehensive youth football league.  Middle Tennessee has a great program.  By the time kids here reach middle school they know how to play football and have developed a love for the sport.  Many of our out-of-state recruits have said they played for 10 years or more by the time they reached Arkansas.  How many of our in-state recruits can say that?



Texas does too.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

 

Arthur pigby sellers.

My thoughts on the past three pages of comments:

1. I used to live in Hot Springs which I believe had 7-8 districts in the county. None of the football programs at any of those HS is particularly good. Magnet cove is literally 5 miles from Lakeside which makes no sense why these schools are consolidated. I know people love their little school, but these are public schools subsidized by the government. If you love a small school then send your kids to a private.

2. I live in Southlake Texas now. Athletics are very different here due to competition levels being much more extreme. My daughter plays select soccer at least 3-4 days per week every week of the year—there aren't really seasons for most sports here. My son on the other hand is not as serious about sports, so he plays rec league and plays multiple sports.  It does make me a little sad that my son probably doesn't have the ability to make the football team or basketball team.  If I'd stayed in Arkansas he would have had a much better chance. Due to the size of these schools they also offer different sports like lacrosse, swimming, ice hockey.