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Well, a lot of speculation

Started by DemiHOG, October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm

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DemiHOG

A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe. Until further notice we have a coach, does he need to be replaced? Probably, does he need to do a better job of evaluating player ? Yes, absolutely, and he Ned's to evaluate his assistant coaches better. A new coach will take another 4-5 years to build his program, I wish I knew what would help, no matter what, it's going to be a long haul.

solitons

Quote from: DemiHOG on October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe. Until further notice we have a coach, does he need to be replaced? Probably, does he need to do a better job of evaluating player ? Yes, absolutely, and he Ned's to evaluate his assistant coaches better. A new coach will take another 4-5 years to build his program, I wish I knew what would help, no matter what, it's going to be a long haul.
why a new coach need 4-5 years to rebuild?
every coach are different?
to give examples here: Les Miles didn't take long to do well at LSU, CBP didn't take long do well here, even HDN did great in his first years at here and at Ole Miss, to be clear, I am not saying to hire HDN here. average coach to take 4-5 years to rebuild, good coach takes 3-4 years, and great coach maybe just 1-2 years, look Saban take how long to get Alabama to national level.

I feel sorry to say that CBB is not a great coach, nor a good coach, at least did't do well here, I have to admit that he did awesome at Wisconsin.

 

Vantage 8 dude

Well like it or not at this point that's all anything is-speculation-as to whether we'll soon have a new HC and IF that's the case, who it might be. Everything else is nothing but talk to fill the airwaves and internet.

DemiHOG


hogsanity

Quote from: solitons on October 17, 2017, 03:00:40 pm
why a new coach need 4-5 years to rebuild?
every coach are different?
to give examples here: Les Miles didn't take long to do well at LSU, CBP didn't take long do well here, even HDN did great in his first years at here and at Ole Miss, to be clear, I am not saying to hire HDN here. average coach to take 4-5 years to rebuild, good coach takes 3-4 years, and great coach maybe just 1-2 years, look Saban take how long to get Alabama to national level.

I feel sorry to say that CBB is not a great coach, nor a good coach, at least did't do well here, I have to admit that he did awesome at Wisconsin.

Alot depends on what the previous coach leaves behind. Ford left HDn a lot of experience because he had played guys like Clint as FR and Sophs. And a really good D too. But if a coach is forced to play alot of FR in his 1st year, he probably is not going to do too well the 1st year or 2. Both scenarios happen alot around college football.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

East Clintwood

It doesn't take a decent coach 4 - 6 years to build a team.  That's  Jeff Long speak.
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Seebs

I could whip this team into shape in two weeks. But I'm busy.
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jgphillips3

Any coach worth a darn will show you something by year 3.  Completely built?  Maybe not.  However, you can see something coming.  Year 5 and all you can see is regression...that is a terrible coach.

Hoggish1

Quote from: solitons on October 17, 2017, 03:00:40 pm

to give examples here: Les Miles didn't take long to do well at LSU, CBP didn't take long do well here, even HDN did great in his first years at here and at Ole Miss, to be clear, I am not saying to hire HDN here.



Everyone know Nutts and Less had great personnel handed to them.  Nutts couldn't get it done even when he had Arkansas' once in a lifetime players (Andres, DMac and Matt Jones0 and the SEC was light years below the talent level now roaming the conference. 

Less was the same way except after he did it with Saban's players he kept getting great players and couldn't get it done again. 

hawg1221

What's really going to be funny is when CBB and Jeff Long are both back next year after 90% of the current hogville threads read like it's a done deal. 

LRRandy

Quote from: East Clintwood on October 17, 2017, 03:35:13 pm
It doesn't take a decent coach 4 - 6 years to build a team.  That's  Jeff Long speak.
some coaches win national championships in year 2
This is fun, isn't it.

hogsanity

Quote from: hawg1221 on October 17, 2017, 03:57:28 pm
What's really going to be funny is when CBB and Jeff Long are both back next year after 90% of the current hogville threads read like it's a done deal. 

the servers will melt
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

From Tusk Till Dawn

I think all jobs are different and the time it takes to rebuild is based on alot of factors.  As much as myself and alot of fans would like to believe otherwise, we are not a premiere destination.  We are on par with the Minnesotas, North Carolinas, & Texas techs of the world.  If Bielema is released, I believe we'll end up with a middle of the pack name.  I'm curious what win/loss expectations would be through year 3 based on what players we have now. 

 

Pig Worshipper


If you don't like speculation, sports fan blogs are probably not a good choice for you.

Bonehog

I heard from a buddy that works at the airport Gruden's plane landed today at 12:36 and was due to depart at 10:07 pm!
If you look at your reflection at the bottom of the well
What you see is only on the surface
When you try to see the meaning, hidden underneath
The measure of the depth can be deceiving
The bottom has a rocky reputation!
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Bonehog

False alarm, it was Josh Groben dang spell check!
If you look at your reflection at the bottom of the well
What you see is only on the surface
When you try to see the meaning, hidden underneath
The measure of the depth can be deceiving
The bottom has a rocky reputation!
                      Joe Walsh

WaltonCollege

Quote from: From Tusk Till Dawn on October 17, 2017, 05:03:34 pm
I think all jobs are different and the time it takes to rebuild is based on alot of factors.  As much as myself and alot of fans would like to believe otherwise, we are not a premiere destination.  We are on par with the Minnesotas, North Carolinas, & Texas techs of the world.  If Bielema is released, I believe we'll end up with a middle of the pack name.  I'm curious what win/loss expectations would be through year 3 based on what players we have now.

This is correct, but with our payroll we should be better than the Minnesota's and such.  If I'm paying you 4.5 million its your job to FIGURE IT OUT.  I don't care if we field a defense that looks like Ramay Jr High, they better compete and give us a chance to win.  Yes NWA is a hard place to recruit but that's why our staff is getting paid big bucks..to figure out a solution to our problems.  They have not done that.  Petrinos staff was paid a portion of Bielemas, yet Petrino produced wins and didn't complain or make excuses.  Bielema loses games and uses the same excuses over and over.

NATEHOGG216

Quote from: 3kgthog on August 27, 2013, 09:15:10 AM
Just because the Crash Test Dummies were good at hitting a brick wall didn't mean they were good drivers.

From Tusk Till Dawn

Quote from: WaltonCollege on October 17, 2017, 05:54:35 pm
This is correct, but with our payroll we should be better than the Minnesota's and such.  If I'm paying you 4.5 million its your job to FIGURE IT OUT.  I don't care if we field a defense that looks like Ramay Jr High, they better compete and give us a chance to win.  Yes NWA is a hard place to recruit but that's why our staff is getting paid big bucks..to figure out a solution to our problems.  They have not done that.  Petrinos staff was paid a portion of Bielemas, yet Petrino produced wins and didn't complain or make excuses.  Bielema loses games and uses the same excuses over and over.
Ok, (I think i saw a stat that CBB was the lowest paid HC in the west, probably not accurate now with Miles and freeze gone) but now that is out of the way.  What would be your win loss expectations for a new coach through year 3?

Jimbob111

Quote from: DemiHOG on October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe. Until further notice we have a coach, does he need to be replaced? Probably, does he need to do a better job of evaluating player ? Yes, absolutely, and he Ned's to evaluate his assistant coaches better. A new coach will take another 4-5 years to build his program, I wish I knew what would help, no matter what, it's going to be a long haul.

I've always disagreed with the 4-5 years building phase. What do you consider building? Even Bert won 6 regular season wins his second year, with another coach's players. Unfortunately, that's about his ceiling at Arkansas.
"DO NOT POST IN THE GAME THREAD ANYMORE TODAY OR YOU WILL RECIEVE A 30 BAN!"--

Multiple play-by-play posters followed by "Good job, D" and "Way to go, Offense" is so interesting to read over and over as the team gets blown out and the coaches flounder. I can't figure out why game threads don't have 60 to 80 pages now.

Am I the only one that misses the old, interesting game threads?

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Jimbob111 on October 17, 2017, 06:44:26 pm
I've always disagreed with the 4-5 years building phase. What do you consider building? Even Bert won 6 regular season wins his second year, with another coach's players. Unfortunately, that's about his ceiling at Arkansas.

He's won more than that in a year, so 6 is obviously not his ceiling as a HC in the SEC. I'll be the first to say that we had every opportunity to win 9 or 10 in each of the last 3 seasons and he allowed 2-3 wins to slip away from him on the field each year.

None of us would likely be complaining if he had won 7 in 2014, 8 in 2015 and 9 in 2016, showing improvement along the way, even with having left wins on the field of play. But that isn't what happened and now having lost 3 of the first 5 that we again, really should have won in year 5 heading into Alabama 5-0, well, different story entirely.

Had we been 5-0 headed into Alabama, I pretty sure that this team would have had a different attitude and competed more closely with Alabama, even if still losing to an enormously talented team. I could have lived with a 35-24 loss to a team that will likely compete for the NC if not win it.

But these are my problems with Bielema and this team in year 5. It has nothing to do with him as a man or as a caring HC off the field. It's just about the product that we see on the field.
Go Hogs Go!

Pork Twain

Quote from: DemiHOG on October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe. Until further notice we have a coach, does he need to be replaced? Probably, does he need to do a better job of evaluating player ? Yes, absolutely, and he Ned's to evaluate his assistant coaches better. A new coach will take another 4-5 years to build his program, I wish I knew what would help, no matter what, it's going to be a long haul.
New to Hogville?
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HOGINTENNESSEE

Quote from: DemiHOG on October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe. Until further notice we have a coach, does he need to be replaced? Probably, does he need to do a better job of evaluating player ? Yes, absolutely, and he Ned's to evaluate his assistant coaches better. A new coach will take another 4-5 years to build his program, I wish I knew what would help, no matter what, it's going to be a long haul.

Jeff stick to AD stuff

Hawgphat

Well, first off - it would seem to me that something would have to be "BUILT" before it could be "REBUILT". 

In year five of the Bielema Era I'm still waiting for the "building" to be completed.  Let the "rebuilding" take care of itself.

I'm not a happy camper.

 

NuttinItUp

Quote from: DemiHOG on October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe.

Clemson wasn't a top 10 destination before Dabo. All it takes is one great coach.

hawg1221

Quote from: NuttinItUp on October 18, 2017, 08:00:13 am
Clemson wasn't a top 10 destination before Dabo. All it takes is one great coach.

That's right. It took him a little while as well. It took several decent recruiting classes before he finally broke through.

solitons

Quote from: hawg1221 on October 18, 2017, 08:52:09 am
That's right. It took him a little while as well. It took several decent recruiting classes before he finally broke through.
Clemson starts doing great in year #4

007 License To Squeal

Quote from: DemiHOG on October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe. Until further notice we have a coach, does he need to be replaced? Probably, does he need to do a better job of evaluating player ? Yes, absolutely, and he Ned's to evaluate his assistant coaches better. A new coach will take another 4-5 years to build his program, I wish I knew what would help, no matter what, it's going to be a long haul.

With a new coach, there will be at least some hope....With the current coach, all hope is lost....
******Proud Member of Hogville.net since May 22, 2003, 08:17:38 PM*******

Redhogs

Quote from: NuttinItUp on October 18, 2017, 08:00:13 am
Clemson wasn't a top 10 destination before Dabo. All it takes is one great coach.
Bingo....not even a top 25.
Will I live long enough to see us win again? Will any of us?

Redhogs

Quote from: hawg1221 on October 18, 2017, 08:52:09 am
That's right. It took him a little while as well. It took several decent recruiting classes before he finally broke through.
Yea.. and didn't Bert just tell us himself in year 5 he didn't have the horses...this guy is a joke.
Will I live long enough to see us win again? Will any of us?

Vantage 8 dude

Quote from: DemiHOG on October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe. Until further notice we have a coach, does he need to be replaced? Probably, does he need to do a better job of evaluating player ? Yes, absolutely, and he Ned's to evaluate his assistant coaches better. A new coach will take another 4-5 years to build his program, I wish I knew what would help, no matter what, it's going to be a long haul.
While we certainly may not be a "top ten" destination, with our fan base, facilities and other factors we aren't exactly UConn either. We play in (arguably) the best conference, and I argue that we have the very real capability to show consistently achieve 8-9 (occasionally 10 win) wins a season. And yes, I'm well aware of the stiff in league competition year in, year out. What we DO need is a HC and staff that can recruit high quality/athletic kids, DEVELOP them and be able to establish both an offensive and defensive system that plays to our strengths. We also have to have the coaches that can actually make adjustments during the game (including half time) AND get these kids to play hard EVERY down, EVERY quarter. In my mind the situation is far from hopeless, however, it also assumes the right structure is in place.

hogginbama

Quote from: solitons on October 18, 2017, 10:22:42 am
Clemson starts doing great in year #4

With a whole bunch of stars from the state of SC on that team. How many stars does the state of Arkansas produce year in and year out?
My ole buddy Biscuit has crossed that rainbow bridge. Life sure is different without him around.

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: Redhogs on October 18, 2017, 10:32:44 am
Yea.. and didn't Bert just tell us himself in year 5 he didn't have the horses...this guy is a joke.

He's trying to tell you(without getting fired) that Jeff Long won't let him recruit horses. 😉

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogginbama on October 19, 2017, 12:22:50 am
With a whole bunch of stars from the state of SC on that team. How many stars does the state of Arkansas produce year in and year out?

This is nothing more or less than a losers argument.  It can be done, it has been done and will be done many times in the future.  You don't accomplish that without trying.

Pork Twain

Quote from: NuttinItUp on October 18, 2017, 08:00:13 am
Clemson wasn't a top 10 destination before Dabo. All it takes is one great coach.
They were still a hell of a lot farther up the food chain than us, and they have a recruiting advantage as well.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on October 19, 2017, 12:35:16 am
This is nothing more or less than a losers argument.  It can be done, it has been done and will be done many times in the future.  You don't accomplish that without trying.

No it isn't a losers argument. Given our offensive scheme we need more "horses" on both sides of the ball for it to work. If we have the horses, they aren't getting it done. Perhaps partly due to scheme, partly due to not making good adjustments, partly due to youth in our receivers and partly due to having some issues with our trigger man on offense. If we are going to run this current style of offense, we need more horses on defense as well because it puts a great deal more pressure on them to save a win.

A regime change to a HC and staff that resembles the Petrino years will likely put more points on the board with less of a requirement for higher end talent on both offense and defense and, might give us 2-3 more wins each year, but our usual W-L average isn't going to change a great deal. Might see an uptick in the average of 1. But fans will be happier and more entertained and will likely have the feeling that we were "in" more games down to the end, even if we don't win that many more.

JMO
Go Hogs Go!

The real Hogules

Quote from: Pork Twain on October 19, 2017, 06:38:55 am
They were still a hell of a lot farther up the food chain than us, and they have a recruiting advantage as well.
Just in case it hasn't been mentioned, the state of South Carolina has more than 1, D-1A team within there States borders
Arkansas has only Arkansas State to contend with and they seldom (read that as almost never) are able to compete with the UofA for in state talent.
Bobby's back and he ain't here to paint!

007 License To Squeal

Quote from: Hoggish1 on October 17, 2017, 03:49:25 pm
Less was the same way except after he did it with Saban's players he kept getting great players and couldn't get it done again. 

And all this time I thought Les won a NC at LSU..........That darn internet...
******Proud Member of Hogville.net since May 22, 2003, 08:17:38 PM*******

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 19, 2017, 06:54:33 am
No it isn't a losers argument. Given our offensive scheme we need more "horses" on both sides of the ball for it to work. If we have the horses, they aren't getting it done. Perhaps partly due to scheme, partly due to not making good adjustments, partly due to youth in our receivers and partly due to having some issues with our trigger man on offense. If we are going to run this current style of offense, we need more horses on defense as well because it puts a great deal more pressure on them to save a win.

A regime change to a HC and staff that resembles the Petrino years will likely put more points on the board with less of a requirement for higher end talent on both offense and defense and, might give us 2-3 more wins each year, but our usual W-L average isn't going to change a great deal. Might see an uptick in the average of 1. But fans will be happier and more entertained and will likely have the feeling that we were "in" more games down to the end, even if we don't win that many more.

JMO

It's stilll a loser argument to say it can't be done because Arkansas doesn't produce enough talent.  Either you overcome or your a loser and losers get fired from any job in the land.

Redhogs

Quote from: hawg1221 on October 17, 2017, 03:57:28 pm
What's really going to be funny is when CBB and Jeff Long are both back next year after 90% of the current hogville threads read like it's a done deal.
That's probably exactly what is going to happen...but it sure as hell won't be funny.
Will I live long enough to see us win again? Will any of us?

Redhogs

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on October 19, 2017, 07:39:28 am
It's stilll a loser argument to say it can't be done because Arkansas doesn't produce enough talent.  Either you overcome or your a loser and losers get fired from any job in the land.
Except by Jeff Long at Arkansas....enjoy ;) ;)
Will I live long enough to see us win again? Will any of us?

Pork Twain

Quote from: The real Hogules on October 19, 2017, 07:05:37 am
Just in case it hasn't been mentioned, the state of South Carolina has more than 1, D-1A team within there States borders
Arkansas has only Arkansas State to contend with and they seldom (read that as almost never) are able to compete with the UofA for in state talent.
Just in case it has not been mentioned, there is more to a recruiting advantage than JUST local recruits.
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

Michael D Huff AIA

Quote from: NuttinItUp on October 18, 2017, 08:00:13 am
Clemson wasn't a top 10 destination before Dabo. All it takes is one great coach.

THIS!!!  This is the 100% truth.  Recruiting will uptick instantly if we make the right hire.

hassettsportsman

If CBB stays, you won't have to worry about the concessionaires.  There won't be enough filled seats to matter.  I suggest that with a new coach..and renewed hope...more of the faithful will return along with the excitement that Hog ball can produce!

smb

Quote from: DemiHOG on October 17, 2017, 02:59:21 pm
A lot of speculation as to who next coach will be, no basis, no facts, just speculating, we are not a top ten destination school, might be in the top 25, maybe. Until further notice we have a coach, does he need to be replaced? Probably, does he need to do a better job of evaluating player ? Yes, absolutely, and he Ned's to evaluate his assistant coaches better. A new coach will take another 4-5 years to build his program, I wish I knew what would help, no matter what, it's going to be a long haul.
Brett is that you?
GeorgiaHOG

Pork Twain

Quote from: Michael D Huff AIA on October 19, 2017, 08:12:02 am
THIS!!!  This is the 100% truth.  Recruiting will uptick instantly if we make the right hire.
Not really THIS!!!  More like, this...  Who cares if they were top 10?  They were likely top 25.  What are we?
"It is better to be an optimist and proven wrong, than a pessimist and proven right." ~Pork Twain

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sweetmemes/

texas tush hog

Quote from: Redhogs on October 19, 2017, 07:52:42 am
That's probably exactly what is going to happen...but it sure as hell won't be funny.

Sad but true.

Hogvillage Idiot

Quote from: NuttinItUp on October 18, 2017, 08:00:13 am
Clemson wasn't a top 10 destination before Dabo. All it takes is one great coach.
Its still not a top 10 destination.  It may be a top 10 program, but that doesn't mean that its a top 10 destination.  The thing to keep in mind too is that Dabo was promoted to the head coaching position.  He's a good talent at the right place and at the right time.
"Winning is like shaving - do it every day or you wind up looking like a bum."

Jack Kemp

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Cinco de Hogo on October 19, 2017, 07:39:28 am
It's stilll a loser argument to say it can't be done because Arkansas doesn't produce enough talent.  Either you overcome or your a loser and losers get fired from any job in the land.

I didn't say anything about in-state recruiting. I just said that we need more "horse's" to be able to successfully run our current offense and defensive schemes, and that isn't an excuse, it is the truth. Just as it isn't bragging if it is fact, by the same token, if something is truth, it isn't an excuse.

This coaching tenure has convinced me that our best chance to win more games is most likely by going with an offensives scheme similar to that of Petrino's. You still have to have excellent skill players, but you don't have to have recruiting classes on both sides of the ball that rival that of the big dogs of the SEC.
Go Hogs Go!

Dominicanhog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on October 20, 2017, 05:02:44 am
I didn't say anything about in-state recruiting. I just said that we need more "horse's" to be able to successfully run our current offense and defensive schemes, and that isn't an excuse, it is the truth. Just as it isn't bragging if it is fact, by the same token, if something is truth, it isn't an excuse.

This coaching tenure has convinced me that our best chance to win more games is most likely by going with an offensives scheme similar to that of Petrino's. You still have to have excellent skill players, but you don't have to have recruiting classes on both sides of the ball that rival that of the big dogs of the SEC.

I'd take the other side and build a great defense.. stay with an offense similar to what we do now... I like what we are trying to do on both sides of the ball, we just need to do it better, better recruiting... Sometimes a different player can make a difference.. it will be interesting to see how the Cole Train does this week... I keep hoping we're not as far off as we appear....