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Win at all cost

Started by lilRockNDubb, October 17, 2017, 12:04:45 am

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Locutus_of_Boar

Quote from: lilRockNDubb on October 17, 2017, 12:04:45 am
For those who are taking this out of context..

Defending a losing situation by postulating a false binary choice as the only alternative is intellectually dishonest.

jkstock04

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 08:58:45 am
Your rant only shows exactly what the guy you were replying to is saying. The people you describe try to derive way too much value from what the team does a few Saturdays every fall.
100% subjective. Everyone has different hobbies or passions. That you constantly come on here and belittle any type of fandom for the Hogs is...strange.

Let me ask you, what is your end game exactly? You dislike football because it's an unsafe sport. Like said above, you constantly criticize fandom and think it's above all ignorant. You constantly tell people Arkansas should never expect more than 6 or 7 wins because that's just the way it's always been. Honest question, do you think Arkansas should disband sports programs completely? Or maybe just the football program?
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

 

jneal56

Quote from: The_Iceman on October 17, 2017, 08:13:06 am
I know some guys who were at that party and are real familiar with the situation. What happened was not rape at all, and to say so is out of ignorance.

I never thought there was a cover up but at the same time I'd be foolish to say there wasn't because I have no inside info to it. But them not being charged says a lot about the allegations. Again I don't know all or any of the details, but if there weren't any charges brought, then GENERALLY, not always, but generally there was little to no evidence to what was accused. I don't believe there was a cover up and as much as I'm upset about the football program, I don't Jeff Long or anyone else at UA (at least I hope not) would cover something like that up for a ridiculous reason such as sports.
"At least we are moral"

jneal56

Quote from: ricepig on October 17, 2017, 08:04:02 am
So, naturally, it's a coverup........Long has power over the D.A..........

Naturally of course!
"At least we are moral"

hogsanity

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 17, 2017, 09:56:41 am
100% subjective. Everyone has different hobbies or passions. That you constantly come on here and belittle any type of fandom for the Hogs is...strange.

Let me ask you, what is your end game exactly? You dislike football because it's an unsafe sport. Like said above, you constantly criticize fandom and think it's above all ignorant. You constantly tell people Arkansas should never expect more than 6 or 7 wins because that's just the way it's always been. Honest question, do you think Arkansas should disband sports programs completely? Or maybe just the football program?

I do not think they should disband sports. I like football. One of my kids played it, I enjoy reffing it. As to the safety of the sport I think any information given to parents before they let their young children play or to grown men playing for $ is good. Just like I think any information about keeping my sons arm healthy for baseball is good, but I know there are risks in pitching and playing catcher.

As for fandom, I just think they way people act and the things they say are way over the top.  also think Hog fans in particular continue to ignore the elephant in the room, the talent issue, and they do so because they realize deep down that problem is never going to be fixed. They want to believe there is some magician out there who is going to improve recruiting to a top 10 level, which is what it is going to take to have the same talent as the upper echelon of college football.  IF the goal is to win titles, then that is what is going to have to happen, and if the goal is not to win titles, then what does the rest really matter.

I have always laughed when I read posts or hear people talk about how they dread Monday after a Hog loss because of what they are going to have to hear at work from their coworkers. Big dam^ deal what joe chucklehead says about the Hogs. He is likely a band wagon guy who is currently following whatever team he thinks is going to win it all and next year he will be a bog fan of some other team.

As far as end game, I really have none. When I 1st joined here I really liked the actual football talk ( and basketball and baseball ) then it became all posts about fire this guy, this guy is trying to keep the program down, the AD is a yankee, blah blah blah. There is precious little actual football talk here anymore, it is all soap opera stuff and most of the posters are easy targets to rebuff what they say with actual facts, and the watch as they try to find a way out.

I think the BB era has failed, it happens. If he is gone after this year we can all spend a couple weeks tracking planes, having sightings of Gruden at the BAC at 2am, etc, and then excitement with a new coach. But in a few years it is likely the results are going to be about the same, 7-8 wins and minor bowl games. My life will go on just fine. My personal like is not affected by what a group of 18-22 yr olds do on Sat afternoons.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogsanity

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 10:00:51 am
Why do you call the class fake?  The report never said it was fake. As a matter of fact, the course in question has been offered at UNC for years and is open to all students.  Dr. Eddie Glaude Jr. teaches a similar course at Princeton.  You ever heard of Princeton University?  Unfortunately at UNC it's a bird class just like bird classes taught at UA and all over the country.  Before you cast stones because it fits your agenda, get your facts straight.  Take a look at the UA course catalog.  The NCAA infractions committee does not have the power or authority to dictate to any University what courses they can and can't offer and shouldn't!

Actually, that it is offered to ALL students is what saved UNC from getting hammered.

I took a music appreciation class my fr year, and 90% of the people in it were athletes, it was an EASY class, but not a FAKE class.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

ATU HOG

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 09:49:09 am
And again your need for the FUHBAWL team to win to some how validate yourself is making it impossible for you to see Long has done a great job doing his JOB- RUNNING THE ENTIRE ATHLETIC DEPT. I realize you feel most of the athletes at the UofA are worthless worms since they do not play fuhbawl, but thankfully those in control realize Long has done a great job AT HIS JOB. Winning fuhbawl games is not his job. At some point the guy who's job it is to do that will answer to his bosses, BB will either win enough to keep them happy or he will be let go.
Can you explain how he has done a great job running the entire athletic department?  Starting with Tennis, Women's Volleyball, and Swim/Dive.

Poker_hog

Quote from: ricepig on October 17, 2017, 08:01:19 am
Don't pay it it's too high, seems simple.

At some point it won't be worth it.  I'm not there yet.

You sticking by that nonsense that Bert has another year regardless of record?  Haven't seen you pushing that in a while.

Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt

hogsanity

Quote from: ATU HOG on October 17, 2017, 10:14:37 am
Can you explain how he has done a great job running the entire athletic department?  Starting with Tennis, Women's Volleyball, and Swim/Dive.

Again, the individual teams are not his responsibility. His job is to make sure the programs are properly funded, and to help in hiring coaches when needed.

As for the sports you mentioned, I know the men's team finished in the top 20 for the 1st time in several years and made it to the ncaat in 2016. The volleyball team has not been very good recently, and has never been a big time program. They recently made news when they offered a 9th grader here in FS. No idea on swimming and diving.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Kevin

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 10:00:51 am
Why do you call the class fake?  The report never said it was fake. As a matter of fact, the course in question has been offered at UNC for years and is open to all students.  Dr. Eddie Glaude Jr. teaches a similar course at Princeton.  You ever heard of Princeton University?  Unfortunately at UNC it's a bird class just like bird classes taught at UA and all over the country.  Before you cast stones because it fits your agenda, get your facts straight.  Take a look at the UA course catalog.  The NCAA infractions committee does not have the power or authority to dictate to any University what courses they can and can't offer and shouldn't!

You have not read the whole thing.

The fake classes required one paper which in many cases the secretary graded them. The secretary at times was getting calls from coach telling her the grade a player would need for their gpa. Also the player could basically write about anything   

As a nc taxpayer I wish I could sue the university system for payback for any grant money that program got
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

jkstock04

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 10:26:26 am
Again, the individual teams are not his responsibility. His job is to make sure the programs are properly funded, and to help in hiring coaches when needed.


And supposedly he is the best of the best at this correct? Curious..in comparison to the rest of the SEC how does he compare? I'm just wondering about the things he has accomplished here that no other ADs could've done.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

lilRockNDubb

Quote from: Locutus_of_Boar on October 17, 2017, 09:54:26 am
Defending a losing situation by postulating a false binary choice as the only alternative is intellectually dishonest.

What's the losing situation? The athletic department as a whole or just football???

lilRockNDubb

Quote from: ATU HOG on October 17, 2017, 10:14:37 am
Can you explain how he has done a great job running the entire athletic department?  Starting with Tennis, Women's Volleyball, and Swim/Dive.

A department worth over $160 million dollars...
That sounds like a successful business to me

 

hogsanity

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 17, 2017, 10:33:01 am
And supposedly he is the best of the best at this correct? Curious..in comparison to the rest of the SEC how does he compare? I'm just wondering about the things he has accomplished here that no other ADs could've done.

I did not say he was the best of the best, all I have ever said is he is doing the job he was hired to do, and doing it well. Could another Ad have done the same job, likely yes. Would the football program have won any titles with a different AD, likely not, but that is not the job of the AD.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

jkstock04

Quote from: lilRockNDubb on October 17, 2017, 10:51:06 am
A department worth over $160 million dollars...
That sounds like a successful business to me
That doesn't come close to answering that question. I'm still waiting on one of you apologists to compare Long to other SEC schools and prove how much more awesome he is. I'll be half way open minded to this...what has the man done that no other AD could've possibly done $$$ wise?

Other than firing Bobby Petrino and reaching national fame over the spectacle he made of it...what sets him apart from all other ADs at power 5 schools? We aren't Baylor, Louisville, or Ole Miss...ok I get that. What else is there that makes this man untouchable and of presidential like importance?
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

Gonzo

Quote from: Karma on October 17, 2017, 08:31:29 am
Actually to win at all costs you must first sacrifice something you deem important for the sake of winning.


I think most folks would consider $15 million or so pretty important, that's the neighborhood of what the UA has paid BB to win, which has clearly been a sacrifice.


Go Hogs!

Razorbax

Enron was valued at 70 billion at one time.
Quote from: lilRockNDubb on October 17, 2017, 10:51:06 am
A department worth over $160 million dollars...
That sounds like a successful business to me

jkstock04

One thing I will say he is very good at is marketing and deflection. Offseason is his time to shine. For 5 years now, going on 6 the football program has been the worst it's ever been...at least in modern history. That's under his watch. He has been very good at getting people to buy in to this.

Interesting scenario which is a possibility...Bielema wins 3 to 5 games this year. Long himself gets a contract raise and extension. Bielema is retained into the 2018 season. It'll be real interesting to see how he markets that scenario in the offseason. If anyone can pull it off it's him...I will give him that.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

ATU HOG

Quote from: lilRockNDubb on October 17, 2017, 10:51:06 am
A department worth over $160 million dollars...
That sounds like a successful business to me
Since he built it from scratch.... hey I have no problem admitting Jeff does a great job raising money for the university.  I just want to know what else he has done running the athletic department that's so great....

hogsanity

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 17, 2017, 11:01:18 am
That doesn't come close to answering that question. I'm still waiting on one of you apologists to compare Long to other SEC schools and prove how much more awesome he is. I'll be half way open minded to this...what has the man done that no other AD could've possibly done $$$ wise?

Other than firing Bobby Petrino and reaching national fame over the spectacle he made of it...what sets him apart from all other ADs at power 5 schools? We aren't Baylor, Louisville, or Ole Miss...ok I get that. What else is there that makes this man untouchable and of presidential like importance?

Where did I say he was untouchable? All I have said is that his overall job performance has been just fine and you crybabies that apparently get your ego stroked by how the fuhbawl team does cant see past your sorrow because they some games.

Saying BB should be gone because of the teams performance is fine, I would not disagree with that. Firing Long is not going to fix one thing wrong with Hog football unless the nest AD moves here with 9 or 10 legitimate SEC players.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

BallHog1

Quote from: hawgon on October 17, 2017, 06:36:58 am
Oh, well now, Jeff Long can ignore and cover up the rape of a coed with the best of them.
You talk...a lot.
What does this mean?

GuvHog

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 11:00:35 am
I did not say he was the best of the best, all I have ever said is he is doing the job he was hired to do, and doing it well. Could another Ad have done the same job, likely yes. Would the football program have won any titles with a different AD, likely not, but that is not the job of the AD.

Wrong. You're batting 1000. One of the main parts of the AD's job is to hire head coaches that win and occasionally compete for titles. When that coach fails (as is the case with Bret), the responsibility for his failure also lies with the AD.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

hogsanity

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 17, 2017, 11:06:50 am
One thing I will say he is very good at is marketing and deflection. Offseason is his time to shine. For 5 years now, going on 6 the football program has been the worst it's ever been...at least in modern history. That's under his watch. He has been very good at getting people to buy in to this.

Interesting scenario which is a possibility...Bielema wins 3 to 5 games this year. Long himself gets a contract raise and extension. Bielema is retained into the 2018 season. It'll be real interesting to see how he markets that scenario in the offseason. If anyone can pull it off it's him...I will give him that.

What does he have to market. Hog fans have proven they will shut up before they put up. IF they want them both gone, quit buying tickets. That won't happen because they do not want to lose their bragging chip about how long they have been season ticket holders or where their seats are. You think nothing would happen if season ticket orders fell by 25, 30, 40%. For many season tickets are like a 50 yr old buying a Ferrari. It is an impractical, over priced attempt to hang on to years long past.

And don't get me wrong, we all do stuff when we get to a certain age to try and hang on to things. It is part of why I got into officiating. I just wanted to be around the games I played, and that later my kids played, and I just do not want to admit that i am closer to the end than the beginning. I am not going to act like I do not have my own way of trying to hold on.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

jkstock04

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 11:08:49 am
Where did I say he was untouchable? All I have said is that his overall job performance has been just fine and you crybabies that apparently get your ego stroked by how the fuhbawl team does cant see past your sorrow because they some games.

Saying BB should be gone because of the teams performance is fine, I would not disagree with that. Firing Long is not going to fix one thing wrong with Hog football unless the nest AD moves here with 9 or 10 legitimate SEC players.
My opinion...we need a complete culture change. Whether you agree/disagree or like it or not, there is now a perception that our AD doesn't care about the football team winning or losing. Regardless if you think it's incorrect, you have to admit there is now that perception out there.

I think this mindset is poisoning the program. It shows on the field....Bielema and Longs philosophies suck. The idea of him hiring the next coach (if that's even in the cards) sounds like a complete nightmare.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

 

RagingHawgOn

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 17, 2017, 11:01:18 am
That doesn't come close to answering that question. I'm still waiting on one of you apologists to compare Long to other SEC schools and prove how much more awesome he is. I'll be half way open minded to this...what has the man done that no other AD could've possibly done $$$ wise?

Other than firing Bobby Petrino and reaching national fame over the spectacle he made of it...what sets him apart from all other ADs at power 5 schools? We aren't Baylor, Louisville, or Ole Miss...ok I get that. What else is there that makes this man untouchable and of presidential like importance?

And this explains the butthurt perfectly.

hogsanity

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 17, 2017, 11:16:43 am
My opinion...we need a complete culture change. Whether you agree/disagree or like it or not, there is now a perception that our AD doesn't care about the football team winning or losing. Regardless if you think it's incorrect, you have to admit there is now that perception out there.

I think this mindset is poisoning the program. It shows on the field....Bielema and Longs philosophies suck. The idea of him hiring the next coach (if that's even in the cards) sounds like a complete nightmare.

IF the goal is to have football team capable of winning titles and being more than a 8 win a year team, then we need a culture change, but it starts far below Long. It starts in all the small towns that continue to hold onto their 13 player football teams. It starts in the youth football programs where coaches rig drafts and every team just does whatever they want. want to knwo wht Greenwood football is so good? They start their kids ion youth football and the HS HC had input into how that program is set up and run. They start introducing his concepts in 2nd grade. Every year they introduce a little more so that by the time they reach JRHS they are well skilled in the basics of what he wants to do. Then in JRHS they build on that so when the kids get to 10th grade all he has to do is sharpen them and not spend time teaching them his system.

Yes, if that type of program is the goal, we need a culture change, I will agree with, although the culture you and I speak of are totally different.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

jkstock04

Quote from: RagingHawgOn on October 17, 2017, 11:20:06 am
And this explains the butthurt perfectly.
I assume you have enjoyed everything the past 5 years throughly?
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

jkstock04

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 11:28:09 am
IF the goal is to have football team capable of winning titles and being more than a 8 win a year team, then we need a culture change, but it starts far below Long. It starts in all the small towns that continue to hold onto their 13 player football teams. It starts in the youth football programs where coaches rig drafts and every team just does whatever they want. want to knwo wht Greenwood football is so good? They start their kids ion youth football and the HS HC had input into how that program is set up and run. They start introducing his concepts in 2nd grade. Every year they introduce a little more so that by the time they reach JRHS they are well skilled in the basics of what he wants to do. Then in JRHS they build on that so when the kids get to 10th grade all he has to do is sharpen them and not spend time teaching them his system.

Yes, if that type of program is the goal, we need a culture change, I will agree with, although the culture you and I speak of are totally different.
I will gladly take the Nutt years or the Petrino years over this. Whatever culture that was.

I'm not going to buy into the spin that they were just lucky guys with in state recruiting and Bielema simply is unlucky. There is more to it than that.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

bondhue

Quote from: Locutus_of_Boar on October 17, 2017, 09:54:26 am
Defending a losing situation by postulating a false binary choice as the only alternative is intellectually dishonest.
The mathematician terms it a false binary, the logician a false dichotomy, the propagandist a valuable tool.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

hogsanity

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 17, 2017, 11:31:19 am
I assume you have enjoyed everything the past 5 years throughly?

See, that is what he is talking about, because we do not pine away for BP does not mean we like what is going on present day. I truly could not care less if they fire BB today, tomorrow, or 3 seconds after the end of the Mizzu game. The next guy may catch lightening in a bottle at some point, just like Holtz, Hatfield, HDn, and BP did ( even Ford if you want to count his SECCG appearance ), or he may muddle through 4 or 5 seasons and then they try yet another guy.

Firing BB or Long or anyone else is not going to fix the systemic problems with hog football. Problems that far pre-date either of them arriving at their current jobs.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

oldhog63

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 09:49:09 am
And again your need for the FUHBAWL team to win to some how validate yourself is making it impossible for you to see Long has done a great job doing his JOB- RUNNING THE ENTIRE ATHLETIC DEPT. I realize you feel most of the athletes at the UofA are worthless worms since they do not play fuhbawl, but thankfully those in control realize Long has done a great job AT HIS JOB. Winning fuhbawl games is not his job. At some point the guy who's job it is to do that will answer to his bosses, BB will either win enough to keep them happy or he will be let go.
You act like the football program is just another sport when in actuality it is the program that that not only pays for the rest of them, but it is a beloved statewide program. It is hard to put a dollar value on that 'beloved' part, but it has intrinsic value. Maybe it isn't that important to you, but it is to many 10's of thousands of people in this state, whether they contribute and attend or not. Not sure if that is the part that Long truly understands and IMHO where most of the anger comes.

hogsanity

Quote from: jkstock04 on October 17, 2017, 11:34:49 am
I will gladly take the Nutt years or the Petrino years over this. Whatever culture that was.

I'm not going to buy into the spin that they were just lucky guys with in state recruiting and Bielema simply is unlucky. There is more to it than that.

There is more to it than that, but in the last 6 years has Ar hs football produced anyting close to Dmac, Mj, Hillis, Franklin, Adams, Childs, Wright, Dj Williams, Cobbs, Madre Hill, Monk, Anderson, Wilson, Bequette or others? Ar HS football, really going back to 10 or 11 has produced very little legit SEC talent, and that showed in BP's last 2 classes. Hunter Henry is probably the best player to come out of the Ar HS ranks in the last 8 years.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogsanity

Quote from: oldhog63 on October 17, 2017, 11:40:40 am
You act like the football program is just another sport when in actuality it is the program that that not only pays for the rest of them, but it is a beloved statewide program. It is hard to put a dollar value on that 'beloved' part, but it has intrinsic value. Maybe it isn't that important to you, but it is to many 10's of thousands of people in this state, whether they contribute and attend or not. Not sure if that is the part that Long truly understands and IMHO where most of the anger comes.

Actually, most of the anger comes from a very small # of people who feel the program somehow owes them a voice in what goes on.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

oldhog63

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 11:42:56 am
Actually, most of the anger comes from a very small # of people who feel the program somehow owes them a voice in what goes on.
The anger is more statewide and larger than either you realize or admit.

hogsanity

Quote from: ModestoHOG63 on October 17, 2017, 11:43:51 am
To me "win at all costs" has nothing to do with illegal payments and cars to recruits and their parents.  Its all about putting everything you have in to actually winning ball games.   When those lights come on and that opposing team gets on the field I am your mortal enemy and hate your guts mentality.   I am going to WIN AT ALL COSTS (but not dirty) and bring everything that I have in my playbook, my best players in in "key roles", and be one of the loudest and excited sob's on that sideline, willing my team to victory. 

Now....this sound like Bert? or even his staff?   Win at all cost does not have to be about illegal activities or having a "Auburn player fake an injury" but rather Do everything to put the players in a position to succeed and to win that damn game.   To me.....that is WIN AT ALL COSTS.

OK, sure, that will helpp when my 2star step slow defender is trying to cover your nfl talent WR.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

DeltaBoy

October 17, 2017, 11:47:27 am #85 Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 02:41:44 pm by DeltaBoy
He has failed at recruiting here at Ark.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

code red

Corrupt?  Hmmm?  Does a corrupt person come to work and underachieve?  Does a corrupt person give himself raises?  Does a corrupt person Cater to the rich only?  I am sure both men are outstanding individuals still yet they are both  IMHO...unable to do the job required of them.
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

hogsanity

Quote from: oldhog63 on October 17, 2017, 11:46:58 am
The anger is more statewide and larger than either you realize or admit.

Perhaps, but I bet it is also much smaller than you perceive.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

oldhog63

Quote from: ModestoHOG63 on October 17, 2017, 11:43:51 am
To me "win at all costs" has nothing to do with illegal payments and cars to recruits and their parents.  Its all about putting everything you have in to actually winning ball games.   When those lights come on and that opposing team gets on the field I am your mortal enemy and hate your guts mentality.   I am going to WIN AT ALL COSTS (but not dirty) and bring everything that I have in my playbook, my best players in in "key roles", and be one of the loudest and excited sob's on that sideline, willing my team to victory. 

Now....this sound like Bert? or even his staff?   Win at all cost does not have to be about illegal activities or having a "Auburn player fake an injury" but rather Do everything to put the players in a position to succeed and to win that damn game.   To me.....that is WIN AT ALL COSTS.
Perfect!!! And just the opposite culture has contaminated the program from the AD down.

code red

Quote from: oldhog63 on October 17, 2017, 11:48:50 am
Perfect!!! And just the opposite culture has contaminated the program from the AD down.
Agreed we need a middle ground...we ain't Vandy.
"If what you did yesterday seems big, you haven't done anything today."  Dr. Lou

oldhog63

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 11:47:46 am
Perhaps, but I bet it is also much smaller than you perceive.
Maybe, but other than MMQ posters, I know of only 1 or 2 people out of maybe 100 or so that I have discussed that would say Long has done a good job. Now, these people are football focused, so a bias. I still say the Long anger is widespread.

EastexHawg

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 10:26:26 am
Again, the individual teams are not his responsibility. His job is to make sure the programs are properly funded, and to help in hiring coaches when needed.

He doesn't "help" with hiring coaches, he picks...hires...them.  He works out the details and gets basically a rubber stamp approval.  He hired Petrino, he hired Grobe...who changed his mind and backed out...he hired Smiley, and he hired Bielema.  There was no committee, it was Long who made those selections.

GuvHog

Quote from: oldhog63 on October 17, 2017, 11:46:58 am
The anger is more statewide and larger than either you realize or admit.

Agreed.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

hogsanity

Quote from: The ColonelHog on October 17, 2017, 12:08:31 pm
I took music appreciation to and never went.  I was an athlete and got an A in the class but I can assure you the class makeup was not 90% athletes.  Again you are putting your ignorance on display.  What is fake about the UNC course that is not fake about the music appreciation class you took?  They are both open to all students, both in course catalogs.  So what's the difference?  What makes one fake but the other not fake?  I'll hang up and listen while you contort attempting to make an argument out of something you can't!

I did not say it was fake, I actually clearly said it was not fake. Were you in the same muscc appr class I was? If not, then how do you know mine was not 90% athletes?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

bondhue

To understand an assertion you can turn it into a syllogism.  For Long's statement the only way I can think to do that is this:

Major premise: We can't win without cheating.
Minor premise: We are not going to cheat.
Conclusion: Therefore we cannot win.

This is a valid syllogism because the conclusion follows of necessity from the premises.  The conclusion is not necessarily true, unless both premises are true.
That's a pretty girl.  I caught her twice.  12.5 pounds.  I hope she's still alive.

Hogs-n-Roses

Quote from: hogsanity on October 17, 2017, 10:13:07 am
Actually, that it is offered to ALL students is what saved UNC from getting hammered.

I took a music appreciation class my fr year, and 90% of the people in it were athletes, it was an EASY class, but not a FAKE class.
Was advanced blimp spotting or Kite building offered.

hogsanity

Quote from: Hogs-n-Roses on October 17, 2017, 12:24:06 pm
Was advanced blimp spotting or Kite building offered.

I would have failed kite building, never was good at arts and crafts.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

bphi11ips

Quote from: bondhue on October 17, 2017, 11:35:37 am
The mathematician terms it a false binary, the logician a false dichotomy, the propagandist a valuable tool.

This and laughing at hogsanity's diatribe made this thread worth reading.

Arkansas has always been a clean program.  Had it not been most of us wouldn't be fans.  There's something to that old saying about cheaters never winning.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

gchamblee

Quote from: Uberanubis on October 17, 2017, 06:55:28 am
this

this is a very bold statement care to elaborate?

This isnt the first thread he has accused Jeff of covering up rape in. He is throwing some serious accusations around in his desperate attempt to turn more people against Jeff. It is a pretty pathetic journey he is on.

gchamblee

Quote from: Surfing8 on October 17, 2017, 12:48:52 am
This is a steaming pile.

Let's talk about... oh, I don't know...         ALEX COLLINS.

So lilRockNDubb - Since we're talking about 'A Clean Program' as you put it above... surely you can confirm for everyone you're trying to reach with this position statement that you FIRMLY BELIEVE Arkansas kept everything above the table when recruiting and signing this young man to play football.
You can do that, right?

Just because the losers we have leading the program aren't any good at it as a whole, doesn't mean they're not in fact trying.  They're definitely trying to play the game everyone KNOWS you play to try and win in the SEC.

You know, other apologists around here have pointed to Bert's 'better recruiting' on paper than his predecessors.  Do you think that's because he's such a swell fella and moms everywhere love him?

Get people's heads out of the sand, huh.  Get real, snowflake.

lol. Do you have a link to anything substantiating your accusation that we cheated to land Alex Collins? The character assassinations on this board are out of control.