Is Beverly the best freshman to play for the Hogs?

[southeasthog]

I mean overall game and consisticey. Johnson is the only one I can think of in recent memory. Corliss was good but didn't dominate until his sophmore year.

Thoughts?

[RhodeHog]

He's the best I can remember.  I can't imagine what he would be like on a running team.

[CallMeAl]

Moncrief was better.

[GrumpyHog]

I think you could put him in the top 5.

[southeasthog]

Moncrief was better.

I'm 43 and really started following the Hogs when he was a sophmore so I can't remember how good he was. I definatly wouldn't argue about Super Sid.

[TaylorHog]

Corliss was injured alot of his freshman year. (Broken foot?) He did lead us to the national championship his second year so I would say he was good.

[Thrilbilly]

I would like to see his stats compared to SM's freshman year. That might be interesting.

[southeasthog]

Corliss was injured alot of his freshman year. (Broken foot?) He did lead us to the national championship his second year so I would say he was good.

Corliss missed alot of time his freshman year because of the foot but came on at the end of the year. I remember him being instrumental in the North Carolina game in the tournament. But him being injured is why I don't think he was the best "freshman".

[elksnort]

Yeah, Beverly is definetly a very good freshman, but what is the team he is playing on going to do this year?

[Hoggy Potter]

He is for sure top 5.  Scotty Thurman was a great freshman as well.

[booogaga]

joe johnston was pretty good

[jimmur74]

What about Thurman? I don't think he is as good as thurman was. Thurman was clutch.
Thurman is my choice.

[RhodeHog]

That's what happens when you tell a player he is too small to make a difference or to play in the NBA.  He's got something to prove, and he's proving it.

[southeasthog]

Yeah, Beverly is definetly a very good freshman, but what is the team he is playing on going to do this year?

I'm not sure how to read your post. Is it "we should be talking about the team and not an induvidual player", or "it's how far that player takes his team".

If it is the first, then feel free to start a "team thread".

If it is the second, then I might would have to say maybe Scotty Thurman was better because they went to the sweet sixteen his freshman year. Or maybe Lee Mayberry, Todd Day.
It just seems like PB overall game as a freshman is the best I can remember in a while.

[jamie72921]

Unambiguosly, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mayberry was better. Scotty Thurman was better. Corliss was better when healthy. Day was better but played on a better team. Moncrief was better. Joe Johnson was far more dominant. Had several 30 pt games against the SEC and only was eligible for half the season.

Stats don't tell the true story either.

Thurman and Corliss took their team to the sweet 16 before losing to eventual national champion North Carolina on a last second shot.

Joe Johnson led his team to the SEC tournament title.

Mayberry and Day won their conference and tournament titles and lost to Louisville in the second round of the NCAA tournament.

Beverly has a long way to go to surpass the achievements of those guys.

That being said, Beverly is very good and having a good year. He is one of the top 6-7 frosh to have played here.

[aristotle]

Joe Johnson won SEC Freshman of the Year and didn't get to play until his first semester was over. Like Beverly, his impact was instant.

[forwhomthebelltoll]

Sidney Moncrief was better. You can't compare stats because of differences such as the 3 point line and shot clock. I'll say this, Moncrief would shut Beverly down but Beverly wouldn't stop Moncrief. When all is said and done, I would take Moncrief over any Razorback alltime.

[elksnort]

I am posting this without the numbers in front of me. Has there not been some games this season which Beverly has not shown up (at least with the numbers) ?

[jfb_is_god]

I love the kid.  I can't say he's the best because I haven't seen enough others to even have a valid opinion.  Johnson was real good, but he had so much talent.  He was clearly way above, not just his team members, but probably most of the NCAA.  However, imo I think Johnson coasted to some degree on his incredible skills.  I never saw the fire and passion I see in Beverly.  I'm not knockin Joe.  He did played on some horrible teams to be honest, but I just never felt he really invested himself in the team.

[jamie72921]

I love the kid.  I can't say he's the best because I haven't seen enough others to even have a valid opinion.  Johnson was real good, but he had so much talent.  He was clearly way above, not just his team members, but probably most of the NCAA.  However, imo I think Johnson coasted to some degree on his incredible skills.  I never saw the fire and passion I see in Beverly.  I'm not knockin Joe.  He did played on some horrible teams to be honest, but I just never felt he really invested himself in the team.

You do realize Johnson played at only 80% his entire sophomore season while recovering from ankle surgery due to a severe injury he suffered while playing on the national team in the summer?

He didn't coast at all and was way better than Beverly.

This is something that bothers me about Hog basketball fans. People say this kid or that kid didn't play hard even when the guy is playing hurt. Risisng above your injuries so you can contribute to your team is the definition of playing hard.

[BigEasy]

Corliss didn't "dominate" until sophomore year, but Beverely has yet to "dominate" period (we're 5-7 in a weak league).  I love PB, but let's not go nuts.  All the guys named above were better, and I would add Ron Huery, Kareem Reid, and Ronnie Brewer to that list. 

[jr]

I have been watching for over 35 years, at this point in his career this is how I rank the great ones:

1. Beverly
2. Moncrief
3. Williamson
3. Johnson
4. Walker
5. Robertson
6. Brewer (Boot)
7. Kleine
8. Brewer Ronnie
9. Almer Lee
Sorry for misspelling, just my opinion if this kid keeps improving he will be the best to ever suit up for the HOGS!!!

[forwhomthebelltoll]

How can you rate Brewer as a better freshman when he didn't even play as a freshman? Brewer went to JR. College! Same with Lee who was ineligible as a freshman due to rules.

[forwhomthebelltoll]

Sorry, but Walker went JUCO too! I've drawn a blank, but Kleine went to ND before tranferring to Arkansas.

[southeasthog]

Corliss didn't "dominate" until sophomore year, but Beverely has yet to "dominate" period (we're 5-7 in a weak league).  I love PB, but let's not go nuts.  All the guys named above were better, and I would add Ron Huery, Kareem Reid, and Ronnie Brewer to that list. 

I wasn't insinuating that PB has been dominating. With some people they will remember how Corliss "dominated" during his career. I was trying to point out that Corliss was injured during his freshman year and although very good, didn't really come on until his second year.

[jamie72921]

I have been watching for over 35 years, at this point in his career this is how I rank the great ones:

1. Beverly
2. Moncrief
3. Williamson
3. Johnson
4. Walker
5. Robertson
6. Brewer (Boot)
7. Kleine
8. Brewer Ronnie
9. Almer Lee
Sorry for misspelling, just my opinion if this kid keeps improving he will be the best to ever suit up for the HOGS!!!

You haven't been watching as long as you say or you would be aware that Boot, Walker and Robertson were juco transfers. Klein came here from Noter Dame and was a 3rd year sophomore his first season.

Beverly is in no way better or having a better freshman season than many of the guys you mentioned.

Corliss did dominate from day one up here. As long as he was healthy enough to play he was dominant.

Dominant is not a word I would use to describe Beverly. It could be used with Thurman, Corliss, Johnson, and Moncrief from day one.

I have yet to see a game where Beverly took over down the stretch and led his team to victory.

[southeasthog]

Sorry, but Walker went JUCO too! I've drawn a blank, but Kleine went to ND before tranferring to Arkansas.

Robertson was a juco transfer also I believe.

[forwhomthebelltoll]

The older I get the more I forget. You are correct about Alvin Robertson. I forget quite easily now, but I do remember his tip in dunk, I think against A&M but that might be wrong. One thing I haven't forgotten is that Sidney Moncrief is the best freshman to play at the U of A. I am not dogging Beverly, who is a good player, the best player on this team today.

[elksnort]

I understand that we are talking about an individual. But in basketball, an individual can sometimes carry a team on "his" back, while he is playing great. Until  Beverly "wills" a victory over Auburn, then two or three more games in a row, I can't place him in the "best" freshman category.

[southeasthog]

I understand that we are talking about an individual. But in basketball, an individual can sometimes carry a team on "his" back, while he is playing great. Until  Beverly "wills" a victory over Auburn, then two or three more games in a row, I can't place him in the "best" freshman category.

Good post.

[Razor6]

Sidney was a rebounder and a slasher to the basket...

I really enjoy Beverly's outside game!

[jamie72921]

I understand that we are talking about an individual. But in basketball, an individual can sometimes carry a team on "his" back, while he is playing great. Until  Beverly "wills" a victory over Auburn, then two or three more games in a row, I can't place him in the "best" freshman category.

Exactly!+1

[southeasthog]

Sidney was a rebounder and a slasher to the basket...

I really enjoy Beverly's outside game!

One thing about Suttons teams at Arkansas, you were always going to have that 6'3" to 6'6" gaurd roaming the baseline and scoring inside. It seemed like they never got their shots blocked.

[jfb_is_god]

I love the kid.  I can't say he's the best because I haven't seen enough others to even have a valid opinion.  Johnson was real good, but he had so much talent.  He was clearly way above, not just his team members, but probably most of the NCAA.  However, imo I think Johnson coasted to some degree on his incredible skills.  I never saw the fire and passion I see in Beverly.  I'm not knockin Joe.  He did played on some horrible teams to be honest, but I just never felt he really invested himself in the team.

You do realize Johnson played at only 80% his entire sophomore season while recovering from ankle surgery due to a severe injury he suffered while playing on the national team in the summer?

He didn't coast at all and was way better than Beverly.

This is something that bothers me about Hog basketball fans. People say this kid or that kid didn't play hard even when the guy is playing hurt. Risisng above your injuries so you can contribute to your team is the definition of playing hard.

   I apologize.  I did not intend to represent that he did not play hard with my statements.  Maybe I chose my words poorly.  I simply meant that I think he knew there was not going to be any dynasty and that he wouldn't be here all that long.  At that point the program had crested the hill.  As for being injured, honestly imo its not relevant.  You're either good to go or you're not.  "Are you hurt, or are you INJURED?"  I know a coached has explained that to me before.  Besides, talent is talent is talent.  It to me is independent of number of games or things like that in this context.  I think Joe had more overall talent when he was here than Beverly does now and he may always have a more complete game.  I, repeat I, just never felt that he displayed the passion Beverly has to leave a lasting mark on the program.  I didn't say it wasn't there.  Just saying it never came across to me.

[elksnort]

Joe Johnson was/is similiar to Matt Jones. It might not have looked like he "cared" from his expressions and mannerisms, but I think he did have passion.

[jamie72921]

Johnson was injured, not hurt is the point.

When your body limits you, it limits your talent and how much you can do.

Johnson is a laid back personality. Beverly is firery. Johnson led us to our only SEC tournament championship. I would call that a mark.

You are correct to say Beverly will leave a more lasting mark on the program. He should end up staying here for 4 years and could accomplish a great deal in that time. At least, that is what I am hoping for.

[southeasthog]

Weems reminds me alot of Joe, just not as talented. When players are not agressive and demand the ball when the team needs a spark, they can somehow get the label "doesn't play hard all the time". Doesn't make it true, just how "fans" percieve them.

[Bomis Hawg]

Scotty Thurman is by far the best frosh I saw.  His ability to make shots, in big games, was uncanny.

Ronnie Brewer (2nd Team Rivals; 3rd Team TSN), Scotty Thurman (1st Team TSN), Joe Johnson (2nd Team Basketball Times), and Corliss Williamson (1st Team TSN) are the only Hogs to get Freshman AA honors.

Recent History (Freshman PPG) Scotty Thurman 17.4 & Joe Johnson 16.0.  George Kok had over 20 as a frosh back in the olden days.  I am not sure about the rest.

[Uncle Jed]

VERY few true freshmen have had such a big impact.    Definitely top 2 or 3.   The thing about Beverly is I think his talents are so raw right now.   He is going to be very, very good.    Phrases that come to mind are "dominating" and "taking over a game".   He has that potential - probably sooner rather than later.   

[Bomis Hawg]

Freshmen PPG by the stop scorers in Arkansas history:

Jonathan Modica went 11.5 ppg in 28 games (2002-03).
Todd Day went 13.3 ppg in 32 games (1988-89).
Sidney Moncrief went 12.6 ppg in 28 games (1975-76).
Lee Mayberry with 12.9 ppg in 32 games (1988-89).
Corliss Williamson with 14.6 ppg in 18 games (1992-93).
Scotty Thurman with 17.4 ppg in 31 games (1992-93).
George Kock with 18.7 ppg in 24 games (1944-45).
Ron Huery with 11.7 ppg in 33 games (1986-87).
Kareem Reid with 12.9 ppg in 33 games (1995-96).
Ronnie Brewer went 12.2 ppg in 28 games (2003-04).
Joe Johnson went 16.0 ppg in 31 games in (2000-01)

Dating back to the 1968-69 season only 4 times has a Freshman led Arkansas in scoring: Scotty Thurman (1992-93); Kareem Reid (1995-96); Joe Johnson (2000-01); Jonathan Modica (2002-03).

A Freshman ranked SECOND in ppg: Ron Huery (1986-87); Lee Mayberry (1989-90); Pat Bradley (1995-96);Eric Ferguson (2002-03); Ronnie Brewer (2003-04).

Patrick Beverley is leading the Hogs at 14.3 ppg.

[CallMeAl]

Freshmen PPG by the stop scorers in Arkansas history:

Jonathan Modica went 11.5 ppg in 28 games (2002-03).
Todd Day went 13.3 ppg in 32 games (1988-89).
Sidney Moncrief went 12.6 ppg in 28 games (1975-76).
Lee Mayberry with 12.9 ppg in 32 games (1988-89).
Corliss Williamson with 14.6 ppg in 18 games (1992-93).
Scotty Thurman with 17.4 ppg in 31 games (1992-93).
George Kock with 18.7 ppg in 24 games (1944-45).
Ron Huery with 11.7 ppg in 33 games (1986-87).
Kareem Reid with 12.9 ppg in 33 games (1995-96).
Ronnie Brewer went 12.2 ppg in 28 games (2003-04).
Joe Johnson went 16.0 ppg in 31 games in (2000-01)

Dating back to the 1968-69 season only 4 times has a Freshman led Arkansas in scoring: Scotty Thurman (1992-93); Kareem Reid (1995-96); Joe Johnson (2000-01); Jonathan Modica (2002-03).

A Freshman ranked SECOND in ppg: Ron Huery (1986-87); Lee Mayberry (1989-90); Pat Bradley (1995-96);Eric Ferguson (2002-03); Ronnie Brewer (2003-04).

Patrick Beverley is leading the Hogs at 14.3 ppg.

Put all these other freshmen on the same team with Delph and Brewer playing the old Sutton way without a three point line and a shot clock. Then see how many points they would average. Moncrief's numbers are more impressive.

[GorillaJMonsoon]

Charles Thomas is my favorite player but I like Beverly a lot.  He's not afraid to go inside to score or rebound either. 

[DEVICEHIGH]

Corliss was injured alot of his freshman year. (Broken foot?) He did lead us to the national championship his second year so I would say he was good.

Corliss missed alot of time his freshman year because of the foot but came on at the end of the year. I remember him being instrumental in the North Carolina game in the tournament. But him being injured is why I don't think he was the best "freshman".

Plus; Corliss had to play center most of his freshman year. He was much more effective at power forward.

[boog]

Can you say, Scott Hastings

[jamie72921]

Freshmen PPG by the stop scorers in Arkansas history:

Jonathan Modica went 11.5 ppg in 28 games (2002-03).
Todd Day went 13.3 ppg in 32 games (1988-89).
Sidney Moncrief went 12.6 ppg in 28 games (1975-76).
Lee Mayberry with 12.9 ppg in 32 games (1988-89).
Corliss Williamson with 14.6 ppg in 18 games (1992-93).
Scotty Thurman with 17.4 ppg in 31 games (1992-93).
George Kock with 18.7 ppg in 24 games (1944-45).
Ron Huery with 11.7 ppg in 33 games (1986-87).
Kareem Reid with 12.9 ppg in 33 games (1995-96).
Ronnie Brewer went 12.2 ppg in 28 games (2003-04).
Joe Johnson went 16.0 ppg in 31 games in (2000-01)

Dating back to the 1968-69 season only 4 times has a Freshman led Arkansas in scoring: Scotty Thurman (1992-93); Kareem Reid (1995-96); Joe Johnson (2000-01); Jonathan Modica (2002-03).

A Freshman ranked SECOND in ppg: Ron Huery (1986-87); Lee Mayberry (1989-90); Pat Bradley (1995-96);Eric Ferguson (2002-03); Ronnie Brewer (2003-04).

Patrick Beverley is leading the Hogs at 14.3 ppg.

It is important to point out that of the times when a frosh led the team in scoring in both the past and present that the overall team would have been considered weak.

That is true of this season as well.

The only exception to this would be Scotty Thurman. His team would win their division and advance to the sweet 16 that season.

The next closest was Reid, whose team would also make the sweet 16.

Joe Johnson, with a lot of help from Brandon Dean, would lead the hogs to the SEC Tournament championship and a first round loss to Miami.

Modica led a terrible team in scoring.

Beverly is currently leading a team that only has 3 scorers.

Many of the other great frosh mentioned played on teams that had many scoring options, which to me, makes their accomplishments all the more impressive.

I love Beverly, but he has a LOOOOOOOOOONG way to go to be considered as one of the best to ever come through here. He is off to a strong start.

[ThunderHog]

Beverly is pretty good, but Ole MIss is very mediocre as is the rest of the west.  Moncrief, Day, Mayberry, Johnson, Williamson, Thurman, when you look at total package, them wuz some bad boyz.

[cottonhog]

Don't know if he's the best ever, but been a long time since I've seen a freshman provide scoring and "LEADERSHIP" to a team.  He has provided an emotional spark to an emontionless team since the Red/White game.

[jchill]

I love the kid.  I can't say he's the best because I haven't seen enough others to even have a valid opinion.  Johnson was real good, but he had so much talent.  He was clearly way above, not just his team members, but probably most of the NCAA.  However, imo I think Johnson coasted to some degree on his incredible skills.  I never saw the fire and passion I see in Beverly.  I'm not knockin Joe.  He did played on some horrible teams to be honest, but I just never felt he really invested himself in the team.

Totally agree with you about JJ. I think a lot of people are looking at Joe for what he has done lately in the NBA, but at Arkansas, I agree that he did not play with any fire or fully invested himself with the team. Out of two years, he only played one semester combined. I like Joe and I am glad that he played for the Hogs, but in no way did we see the dominant JJ.

[Hollywood_HOGan]

I mean overall game and consisticey. Johnson is the only one I can think of in recent memory. Corliss was good but didn't dominate until his sophmore year.

Thoughts?

There is no freshman that will come close to Thurman.

Bev is good..really good. but he's no scotty thurman.

[rebelhogdog]

I mean overall game and consisticey. Johnson is the only one I can think of in recent memory. Corliss was good but didn't dominate until his sophmore year.

Thoughts?

There is no freshman that will come close to Thurman.

Bev is good..really good. but he's no scotty thurman.

Agree....