In-State recruits that go out-of-state

[redleg]

 :razorback:
I am simply wanting everyone's take on this subject. I have noticed over the last few years, that the Hogs have not faired too well when recruiting the top 1-3 in-state football players. It seems like, especially the #1 ranked Arkansas product, most of them go elsewhere, and when they do, we either never hear from them again (i.e. Zac Brooks), or after some short-term success things fall apart for them (i.e. Michael Dyer and Altee Tenpenny). I wonder...do players bother to look at things like that, or do they just brush it off as inconsequential, and that it "won't happen to me"?
Off the top of my head, the only players that went out of state and had success for their entire stint at another major university football program are Lee Ziemba at Auburn, and that O-Lineman from Stuttgart that went to LSU. Every else just seemed to disappear and made no above average contributions to their respective teams, or they got into trouble.
I'll be very curious to see what happens with KJ Hill at Ohio St, and very curious to see where McTelvin Agim goes.
I will also be curious to see when the Hogs finally start getting the top 1 or 2 in-state players on a consistent basis. If memory serves, Arkansas has only signed the states #1 recruit twice in the last seven or eight years (Darius Winston and Bijhon Jackson).
Thoughts?
:razorback:

[WriterWrong]

:razorback:
I am simply wanting everyone's take on this subject. I have noticed over the last few years, that the Hogs have not faired too well when recruiting the top 1-3 in-state football players. It seems like, especially the #1 ranked Arkansas product, most of them go elsewhere, and when they do, we either never hear from them again (i.e. Zac Brooks), or after some short-term success things fall apart for them (i.e. Michael Dyer and Altee Tenpenny). I wonder...do players bother to look at things like that, or do they just brush it off as inconsequential, and that it "won't happen to me"?
Off the top of my head, the only players that went out of state and had success for their entire stint at another major university football program are Lee Ziemba at Auburn, and that O-Lineman from Stuttgart that went to LSU. Every else just seemed to disappear and made no above average contributions to their respective teams, or they got into trouble.
I'll be very curious to see what happens with KJ Hill at Ohio St, and very curious to see where McTelvin Agim goes.
I will also be curious to see when the Hogs finally start getting the top 1 or 2 in-state players on a consistent basis. If memory serves, Arkansas has only signed the states #1 recruit twice in the last seven or eight years (Darius Winston and Bijhon Jackson).
Thoughts?
:razorback:

Damian Williams did quite well at USC.

[MissippHog]

Going back to Lee Ziemba, I can only think of a handful of the state's top 5 talent that we wanted that went elsewhere.  Without taking the time to figure it out, I would guess we are over 90% hit rate on in-state talent that we offer.  Not too bad IMO. 

[scruf]

#1 Recruits from Arkansas who signed with the Razorbacks (courtesy of 247):

De'Anthony Curtis (2008 - Composite)
Darius Winston (2009 - Composite)
Mitch Smothers (2011)
Jeremy Ward (2012)
CJ O'Grady (2015)

5 out of the last 8 years (2008-2015) the Hogs have signed the state's top player, missing on Josh Frazier, Altee Tenpenny, and Michael Dyer. In retrospect it's not a bad hit rate. By comparison, LSU was 5 out of 8 on netting Louisiana's #1 players over the same period.

[LRHawg]

#1 Recruits from Arkansas who signed with the Razorbacks (courtesy of 247):

De'Anthony Curtis (2008 - Composite)
Darius Winston (2009 - Composite)
Mitch Smothers (2011)
Jeremy Ward (2012)
CJ O'Grady (2015)

5 out of the last 8 years (2008-2015) the Hogs have signed the state's top player, missing on Josh Frazier, Altee Tenpenny, and Michael Dyer. In retrospect it's not a bad hit rate. By comparison, LSU was 5 out of 8 on netting Louisiana's #1 players over the same period.

Good post. Looziana has the benefit of producing several more SEC players a year than we do, though.

[sigpooie]

i smell a troll, who cares where the top 1st , 2nd or 3rd players go? If the don't want to be Hogs or live in Fay for 4 to 5 years of their life, then that's their choice. I don't care and have not for over 50 years now. We have shown how well we support our hogs and we have paid for some of the best coaches and facilities in the nation. So let the rank services decide who's really number one player in Arkansas and you might be a little disappointed  every year since those services happen to be wrong on the difference between 1 and 5 every year.

[OLDHOG]

You would think that the past failures of the top players would mean something but obviously it doesn't cause it keeps happening. It seems a lot of kids now a days, not all of them, don't give a dang about home state pride. JMHO.

[arkansasrazorback]

:razorback:
I am simply wanting everyone's take on this subject. I have noticed over the last few years, that the Hogs have not faired too well when recruiting the top 1-3 in-state football players. It seems like, especially the #1 ranked Arkansas product, most of them go elsewhere, and when they do, we either never hear from them again (i.e. Zac Brooks), or after some short-term success things fall apart for them (i.e. Michael Dyer and Altee Tenpenny). I wonder...do players bother to look at things like that, or do they just brush it off as inconsequential, and that it "won't happen to me"?
Off the top of my head, the only players that went out of state and had success for their entire stint at another major university football program are Lee Ziemba at Auburn, and that O-Lineman from Stuttgart that went to LSU. Every else just seemed to disappear and made no above average contributions to their respective teams, or they got into trouble.
I'll be very curious to see what happens with KJ Hill at Ohio St, and very curious to see where McTelvin Agim goes.
I will also be curious to see when the Hogs finally start getting the top 1 or 2 in-state players on a consistent basis. If memory serves, Arkansas has only signed the states #1 recruit twice in the last seven or eight years (Darius Winston and Bijhon Jackson).
Thoughts?
:razorback:

curious what short-term success Tenpenny had. 

[Choctaw Hog]

:razorback:
I am simply wanting everyone's take on this subject. I have noticed over the last few years, that the Hogs have not faired too well when recruiting the top 1-3 in-state football players. It seems like, especially the #1 ranked Arkansas product, most of them go elsewhere, and when they do, we either never hear from them again (i.e. Zac Brooks), or after some short-term success things fall apart for them (i.e. Michael Dyer and Altee Tenpenny). I wonder...do players bother to look at things like that, or do they just brush it off as inconsequential, and that it "won't happen to me"?
Off the top of my head, the only players that went out of state and had success for their entire stint at another major university football program are Lee Ziemba at Auburn, and that O-Lineman from Stuttgart that went to LSU. Every else just seemed to disappear and made no above average contributions to their respective teams, or they got into trouble.
I'll be very curious to see what happens with KJ Hill at Ohio St, and very curious to see where McTelvin Agim goes.
I will also be curious to see when the Hogs finally start getting the top 1 or 2 in-state players on a consistent basis. If memory serves, Arkansas has only signed the states #1 recruit twice in the last seven or eight years (Darius Winston and Bijhon Jackson).
Thoughts?
:razorback:

Bielema and staff have done all they can, within the rules,  getting in-state players to Arkansas.  If the players decide to go elsewhere, well it happens.  We get players from outside the state all the time.  Is that a problem?  Either we sign them or we don't.  It's no more complicated than that and not something fans need to be "worried" about. 

[Cinco de Hogo]

Were they really the states top player if they went elsewhere to little or no success?  I ask because the ones we got seem to do just fine.  Recruiting services know very little about Arkansas HS players.

Whatever happened to the WR from Jonesboro that went to Clemson?

[ricepig]

Bielema and staff have done all they can, within the rules,  getting in-state players to Arkansas.  If the players decide to go elsewhere it happens.  We get players from outside he state all the time.  Is that a problem?  Either we sign them or we don't.  It's no more complicated than that and not something fans need to be "worried" about. 

I always wonder why people fail to understand this.

[TexHog188]

curious what short-term success Tenpenny had. 

I heard the check didn't bounce. 

[Pig in the Pokey]

Benedict Arnold; the lot of em.

[Bigpiggin]

 KJ will probably better off where he is at. He needs as much space as he can get between himself and Montez. Probably won't be far enough though.

[redeye]

Were they really the states top player if they went elsewhere to little or no success?  I ask because the ones we got seem to do just fine.  Recruiting services know very little about Arkansas HS players.

Whatever happened to the WR from Jonesboro that went to Clemson?

Seems like recruiting services struggle to identify the state's top player nowadays.  Agim may be an easy choice this year, but I know some had Austin Capps as #1 earlier.

I also think we've had #1 players who went elsewhere, because we didn't want them that bad.  We offered and recruited them, but didn't recruit them hard.  Some of these players have even mentioned that Arkansas wasn't recruiting them hard.  I'll be surprised if Bielema doesn't pass on the #1 player one day, simply because his standards are set so high.

I had to look up Brooks, but apparently he was injured in the preseason last year and spent the season recovering.  IIRC, he wasn't from Arkansas and Clemson was closer to where he grew up.  That's similar to Agim, but Bielema wasn't here when Brooks graduated.

[Arkamedes]

curious what short-term success Tenpenny had.

I believe he has successfully managed to spend a short term at two different schools. Hopefully, the third time will be the charm - Nicholls State. Yes, that's right... Two Nickels to Nicholls!

[ErieHog]

There may be a correlation in mindset-  people chafing to get some distance between themselves and home, solely for the sake of leaving, tend to not be the best adjusted or prepared for the challenges ahead.   The ones that go somewhere else, with a defined plan and cause other than getting away, tend to do better.

[Cinco de Hogo]

There may be a correlation in mindset-  people chafing to get some distance between themselves and home, solely for the sake of leaving, tend to not be the best adjusted or prepared for the challenges ahead.   The ones that go somewhere else, with a defined plan and cause other than getting away, tend to do better.

That's probably true but is there a difference(besides the obvious)in going to Harvard to be a lawyer and going to Bama to be a football star.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Seems like recruiting services struggle to identify the state's top player nowadays.  Agim may be an easy choice this year, but I know some had Austin Capps as #1 earlier.

I also think we've had #1 players who went elsewhere, because we didn't want them that bad.  We offered and recruited them, but didn't recruit them hard.  Some of these players have even mentioned that Arkansas wasn't recruiting them hard.  I'll be surprised if Bielema doesn't pass on the #1 player one day, simply because his standards are set so high.

I had to look up Brooks, but apparently he was injured in the preseason last year and spent the season recovering.  IIRC, he wasn't from Arkansas and Clemson was closer to where he grew up.  That's similar to Agim, but Bielema wasn't here when Brooks graduated.

Thanks for the info on Brooks, I knew he had a reason as have a few others in the past.

[mizzouman]

Other perhaps McFadden what other #1 player in the state had success regardless of where they went?

[dhornjr1]

Other perhaps McFadden what other #1 player in the state had success regardless of where they went?

I guess you could say Dyer had success before he went down the toilet. He was Freshman All-SEC, Freshman All-American, SEC Champion, BCS National Champion, BCS National Championship game MVP, and First-team All-SEC. And, I'm sure he was paid well while he was there.

It wasn't long term success, but success nonetheless.

[Huds_HawgTide]

247 still had capps no.1 in AR a few wks ago

[Huds_HawgTide]

and just checked, he is now no 2 on their site

[Cinco de Hogo]

and just checked, he is now no 2 on their site

Isn't #1 always the last remaining player that hasn't committed to Arkansas? LOL

JK...I think!

[Huds_HawgTide]

Isn't #1 always the last remaining player that hasn't committed to Arkansas? LOL

JK...I think!

within reason! 247 use to have capps rated like a 97 or 98...he is 95 now...and agim is a 96 i believe...agims compostie is just under 5 star status for their site

[tusksincolorado]

Damian Williams did quite well at USC.

Keith Jackson accomplished more at OU....and Keith Lee wasn't to shabby at Tiger High.

[tusksincolorado]

I guess you could say Dyer had success before he went down the toilet. He was Freshman All-SEC, Freshman All-American, SEC Champion, BCS National Champion, BCS National Championship game MVP, and First-team All-SEC. And, I'm sure he was paid well while he was there.

It wasn't long term success, but success nonetheless.

Wonder if he ran out of his sponsored "FROSH Money", and that's why he lent his gun to his Stooge so he could rob a mobile home drug house?

Just a random thought.

[LRHawg]

Fun fact; his mother and step-father now live in Columbus Ohio.

Was going to say, they got out of dodge QUICK after he committed.

[RazorPiggie]

So did some quick research. These were the top ranked kids from Arkansas according to Rivals

Arkansas signees:
02 - Chris Baker
04 - Peyton Hillis
05 - Darren McFadden
06 - Mitch Mustain
08 - DeAnthony Curtis
09 - Daris Winston
15 - CJ O'Grady

Non Arkansas Signees:
03 - Bret Smith Tenner (Career stats 44 rec 647 yds 9 TDs)
07 - Ziemba Aub (Good career)
10 - Dyer Aub (good Freshman campaign but quickly went downhill)
11 - Frazier Aub (Never panned out)
12 - Brooks Clemson (career Stats at Clem 74 car 365 yds 9 rec 92 yds 3 TOT TDs)
13 - Tenpenny Bama (already transferred and kicked out of UNLV)
14 - Frazier Bama (Still riding that pine)


Basically don't leave the state if you want a good football career and career inside the state if football doesn't work out.

[RazorPiggie]

Fun fact; his mother and step-father now live in Columbus Ohio.

Was going to say, they got out of dodge QUICK after he committed.

Wow really???

[UhOhioHog]

DeAngelo Williams did quite well at that prep school in Memphis and beyond.  Wasn't he ranked the #2 in State back behind Dedrick Poole that year? 

[RME]

So did some quick research. These were the top ranked kids from Arkansas according to Rivals

Arkansas signees:
02 - Chris Baker
04 - Peyton Hillis
05 - Darren McFadden
06 - Mitch Mustain
08 - DeAnthony Curtis
09 - Daris Winston
15 - CJ O'Grady

Non Arkansas Signees:
03 - Bret Smith Tenner (Career stats 44 rec 647 yds 9 TDs)
07 - Ziemba Aub (Good career)
10 - Dyer Aub (good Freshman campaign but quickly went downhill)
11 - Frazier Aub (Never panned out)
12 - Brooks Clemson (career Stats at Clem 74 car 365 yds 9 rec 92 yds 3 TOT TDs)
13 - Tenpenny Bama (already transferred and kicked out of UNLV)
14 - Frazier Bama (Still riding that pine)


Basically don't leave the state if you want a good football career and career inside the state if football doesn't work out.

Listen, I'm sure I'll get lit up for this. And I know how everyone harps on loyalty to your state, etc. But look at the guys I've bolded...Those guys AT BEST had mediocre careers at Arkansas. This is not me ragging on them. This is me saying that maybe sometimes a 3* kid from Texas or Florida is just a better player than a 4*-5* kid in Arkansas. Again, I'm not saying don't go after guys in state who look to be the part. BUT, you can't deny that several in-state 4*-5* guys just haven't panned out.

[RazorPiggie]

Listen, I'm sure I'll get lit up for this. And I know how everyone harps on loyalty to your state, etc. But look at the guys I've bolded...Those guys AT BEST had mediocre careers at Arkansas. This is not me ragging on them. This is me saying that maybe sometimes a 3* kid from Texas or Florida is just a better player than a 4*-5* kid in Arkansas. Again, I'm not saying don't go after guys in state who look to be the part. BUT, you can't deny that several in-state 4*-5* guys just haven't panned out.

I agree but if you think about life after football inside the state and you go to the UofA you're probably always going to have a good job. Especially if you got your degree.

[Russ22]

Benedict Arnold; the lot of em.

Really? It's OK for the Hogs to ask a dozen+ guys to leave their home state every year, but if a guy leaves Arkansas he is betraying his family, friends, and neighbors. That is, quite simply, ridiculous.

Let's try a different approach to this: Encourage and support all the athletes in the state that have a chance to play scholarship athletics - regardless of where they choose to do it. The decisions they make aren't really any of our business. I am positive that they consider what is best for their families and them instead of what some internet guys from Mena, DeQueen, Pine Bluff, or Fouke think about them.

[RME]

Really? It's OK for the Hogs to ask a dozen+ guys to leave their home state every year, but if a guy leaves Arkansas he is betraying his family, friends, and neighbors. That is, quite simply, ridiculous.

Let's try a different approach to this: Encourage and support all the athletes in the state that have a chance to play scholarship athletics - regardless of where they choose to do it. The decisions they make aren't really any of our business. I am positive that they consider what is best for their families and them instead of what some internet guys from Mena, DeQueen, Pine Bluff, or Fouke think about them.

Agree. I will never understand the view that an 18-year old kid leaving his home state is such an abomination. Just because you as a fan are loyal to the Razorbacks exclusively, an 18-year old with 20+ scholarships to play football anywhere in the country now has options. Where is it stated that you MUST stay in state and play? As you noted Russ, the double standard is pretty incredible. We want the 5* kids from TX and LA (of course we do) but what about people in Lufkin or Shreveport throwing temper tantrums because those kids didn't stay in state?

[ricepig]

Agree. I will never understand the view that an 18-year old kid leaving his home state is such an abomination. Just because you as a fan are loyal to the Razorbacks exclusively, an 18-year old with 20+ scholarships to play football anywhere in the country now has options. Where is it stated that you MUST stay in state and play? As you noted Russ, the double standard is pretty incredible. We want the 5* kids from TX and LA (of course we do) but what about people in Lufkin or Shreveport throwing temper tantrums because those kids didn't stay in state?

Russ wants them to be Aggies, lol. Also, it really doesn't matter what we want, the vast majority make up their own mind.

[Bigpiggin]

Fun fact; his mother and step-father now live in Columbus Ohio.

Really sucks for him. It would have been beneficial for him to be around someone like CBB. I don't see Urban turning him into his own man like CBB would. Maybe he will figure it out on his own. It is hard to get off to a good start in life when you have bad decision makers guiding you towards their own personal interests.

[ErieHog]

That's probably true but is there a difference(besides the obvious)in going to Harvard to be a lawyer and going to Bama to be a football star.

Sure.  Same with a dozen other cases, as well.   One of the things I look at in kids who leave Arkansas, is what they declare their major to be, when they get somewhere else.    I think there is a strong correlation between flight for the sake of flight,  being illustrated through 'undecided' majors, versus the guy who goes somewhere and declares 'architecture' or some very specific, non generalized degree-- those are the guys who have a plan other than football for their future, when they leave, and who often leave in pursuit of that plan.

[WorfHog]

Was going to say, they got out of dodge QUICK after he committed.

Must have been an opportunity in the hot dog business.

[redleg]

i smell a troll, who cares where the top 1st , 2nd or 3rd players go? If the don't want to be Hogs or live in Fay for 4 to 5 years of their life, then that's their choice. I don't care and have not for over 50 years now. We have shown how well we support our hogs and we have paid for some of the best coaches and facilities in the nation. So let the rank services decide who's really number one player in Arkansas and you might be a little disappointed  every year since those services happen to be wrong on the difference between 1 and 5 every year.

Not a troll. Just curious what other Hog fans think. As far as my smell...I smell like Aramis because that's what my girlfriend likes.

[Russ22]

Russ wants them to be Aggies, lol. Also, it really doesn't matter what we want, the vast majority make up their own mind.

ricepig, you have me pegged. However, I don't freak out when a Texas kid goes to Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana (or anywhere else).  I don't think that is too much ask from a fanbase.

However, I truly feel sorry for anyone that chooses Baylor. That's a bad life decision.

Slightly off-topic, I do think Agim picks the Ags. The rumors that I have seen indicate his mom is planning to relocate to the DFW area after he graduates. Although it is only closer to College Station by a little, I think it is much easier to get to CS than Fayetteville from there. Either way, I hope he has a fine career at either Arkansas or A&M. I really hope he doesn't pick Ole Miss or Baylor.

[redleg]

Were they really the states top player if they went elsewhere to little or no success?  I ask because the ones we got seem to do just fine.  Recruiting services know very little about Arkansas HS players.

Whatever happened to the WR from Jonesboro that went to Clemson?

Zac Brooks.........he is still on the roster at Clemson, listed as a junior RB. He was a WR the two previous years, and he is not on their two-deep depth chart.

[redleg]

Damian Williams did quite well at USC.

Yes he did.....and if he and Mustain had stayed at Arkansas they would have done even better...but hindsight is 20/20, and there was no way for them to know Arkansas would hire Petrino.

[ricepig]

ricepig, you have me pegged. However, I don't freak out when a Texas kid goes to Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana (or anywhere else).  I don't think that is too much ask from a fanbase.

However, I truly feel sorry for anyone that chooses Baylor. That's a bad life decision.

Slightly off-topic, I do think Agim picks the Ags. The rumors that I have seen indicate his mom is planning to relocate to the DFW area after he graduates. Although it is only closer to College Station by a little, I think it is much easier to get to CS than Fayetteville from there. Either way, I hope he has a fine career at either Arkansas or A&M. I really hope he doesn't pick Ole Miss or Baylor.

Hmm, now how many kids get D-I football scholarships from Texas??..?? I have no idea where the kid is going, I hope he chooses Arkansas, but I doubt anyone else knows either. Every team's recruiting guys think he's going there, we'll all know Sept. 5th.

[redleg]

So did some quick research. These were the top ranked kids from Arkansas according to Rivals

Arkansas signees:
02 - Chris Baker
04 - Peyton Hillis
05 - Darren McFadden
06 - Mitch Mustain
08 - DeAnthony Curtis
09 - Daris Winston
15 - CJ O'Grady

Non Arkansas Signees:
03 - Bret Smith Tenner (Career stats 44 rec 647 yds 9 TDs)
07 - Ziemba Aub (Good career)
10 - Dyer Aub (good Freshman campaign but quickly went downhill)
11 - Frazier Aub (Never panned out)
12 - Brooks Clemson (career Stats at Clem 74 car 365 yds 9 rec 92 yds 3 TOT TDs)
13 - Tenpenny Bama (already transferred and kicked out of UNLV)
14 - Frazier Bama (Still riding that pine)


Basically don't leave the state if you want a good football career and career inside the state if football doesn't work out.

In 2011, there were two 5* players, Frazier and Brey Cook. Although Frazier was ranked a little higher, Cook worked out pretty well for the Hogs.
Also, Rivals must have been the only recruiting service to NOT have KJ Hill as the states #1 player in the Class of 2015.
Who is considered the early favorite to be the 2017 #1 guy?  

[RME]

In 2011, there were two 5* players, Frazier and Brey Cook. Although Frazier was ranked a little higher, Cook worked out pretty well for the Hogs.
Also, Rivals must have been the only recruiting service to NOT have KJ Hill as the states #1 player in the Class of 2015.
Who is considered the early favorite to be the 2017 #1 guy?  

As of now, Rivals has no Arkansas 2017 rankings. 247Sports has Taylor Powell (ATH - Fayetteville), Josh Johnson (WR - CAC) Monta Thomas (ATH - Hermitage) and Darius Hopkins (ATH - Nashville) as the only 4 so far.

[RME]

And, FWIW, Rivals has initial 2017 rankings for 30 states. Arkansas is not one.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Listen, I'm sure I'll get lit up for this. And I know how everyone harps on loyalty to your state, etc. But look at the guys I've bolded...Those guys AT BEST had mediocre careers at Arkansas. This is not me ragging on them. This is me saying that maybe sometimes a 3* kid from Texas or Florida is just a better player than a 4*-5* kid in Arkansas. Again, I'm not saying don't go after guys in state who look to be the part. BUT, you can't deny that several in-state 4*-5* guys just haven't panned out.

It's not about if the kids are from Arkansas or not, it's about the inaccuracy of the rating system now in place.  It's simply a poor method to predict future performance, regardless where kids are from.

[Adam Stokes]

In 2011, there were two 5* players, Frazier and Brey Cook. Although Frazier was ranked a little higher, Cook worked out pretty well for the Hogs.
Also, Rivals must have been the only recruiting service to NOT have KJ Hill as the states #1 player in the Class of 2015.
Who is considered the early favorite to be the 2017 #1 guy?  

Adding on to the other posts, RankbyOffers has five 2017 guys from the state getting D1 offers thus far.

Joshua Johnson WR - Oklahoma State, Kansas, Memphis, LT
Akial Byers DE - Mississippi State
Hunter Moreton DT - Arkansas State
Jonathan Adams ATH - Arkansas State
Taylor Powell QB - Arkansas State

[Großer Kriegschwein]

I believe he has successfully managed to spend a short term at two different schools. Hopefully, the third time will be the charm - Nicholls State. Yes, that's right... Two Nickels to Nicholls!

Yeah, htf you get kicked off a team located in Las Vegas?

Violation of team rules? huh? wut?  Las Vegas is one big giant violation of any team's rules.