Five years in: Examining Bielema as a recruiter

[ChitownHawg]

In response to retention.  The article only talks about the four and five stars right?  What stud four or five star did Petrino lose?  I see a bunch of injury problems and overrated players.  I'd say the miss rate on 4 and 5 stars panning out during Petrino's reign is more appropriate than saying he has retention problems.

I'm not following you. The article states:

"High-Profile Recruits

One of the complaints about Bielema has been in alleged inability to recruit high-profile players or develop the ones he signs.

However, the numbers say otherwise.

In five classes, Bielema has signed 25 four- or five-star recruits. That is two more than Petrino signed during his tenure and 14 more than Nutt signed over his final five years.

Combined, the three coaches have brought in 59 such players, with four being five-star recruits. Those players have enjoyed varying degrees of success.

Here is a chart of every four- and five-star recruit Arkansas has signed, broken down by coach, along with how they panned out. (Five-star signees are in bold.)"

So CBB had 2 more 4/5 star players than CBP. Then the article states:

"Bielema has retained all but one of his four- or five-star signees – Jojo Robinson – while nine of Petrino's and four of Nutt's either never played a snap for the Razorbacks, transferred, were dismissed or otherwise did not finish their career at Arkansas."

So CBB had 2 more 4/5 star players than CBP, yet only lost 1. CBP lost 9.

Did I miss your point?

[Pork Twain]

In response to retention.  The article only talks about the four and five stars right?  What stud four or five star did Petrino lose?  I see a bunch of injury problems and overrated players.  I'd say the miss rate on 4 and 5 stars panning out during Petrino's reign is more appropriate than saying he has retention problems.

Oden, Berna, Barnett, Wade, Gosha, Peters, Dean are the ones I came up with

[RazorWest]

I'm not following you. The article states:

"High-Profile Recruits

One of the complaints about Bielema has been in alleged inability to recruit high-profile players or develop the ones he signs.

However, the numbers say otherwise.

In five classes, Bielema has signed 25 four- or five-star recruits. That is two more than Petrino signed during his tenure and 14 more than Nutt signed over his final five years.

Combined, the three coaches have brought in 59 such players, with four being five-star recruits. Those players have enjoyed varying degrees of success.

Here is a chart of every four- and five-star recruit Arkansas has signed, broken down by coach, along with how they panned out. (Five-star signees are in bold.)"

So CBB had 2 more 4/5 star players than CBP. Then the article states:

"Bielema has retained all but one of his four- or five-star signees – Jojo Robinson – while nine of Petrino's and four of Nutt's either never played a snap for the Razorbacks, transferred, were dismissed or otherwise did not finish their career at Arkansas."

So CBB had 2 more 4/5 star players than CBP, yet only lost 1. CBP lost 9.

Did I miss your point?

My point was that the 4 and 5 stars that Petrino lost were due to injury or they just couldn't crack the rotation and transferred.  So just saying that he didn't lose 4 and 5 star players that were going to get any playing time.  Thus who cares.  Basically that a lot of 4 and 5 star players he got were way overrated out of High school.  That of course would call in some poor evaluation too

[Pork Twain]

My point was that the 4 and 5 stars that Petrino lost were due to injury or they just couldn't crack the rotation and transferred.  So just saying that he didn't lose 4 and 5 star players that were going to get any playing time.  Thus who cares.  Basically that a lot of 4 and 5 star players he got were way overrated out of High school.  That of course would call in some poor evaluation too

What that, in turn, would mean, is that those players should have never been signed and their star value just made the class look better than it actually was.

[RazorWest]

Oden, Berna, Barnett, Wade, Gosha, Peters, Dean are the ones I came up with

I see the names, just curious out of those who do we really care left?  Maybe Wade?  The others didn't pan out for whatever reason.  Wade was also arrested in 2012 also he left after Petrino was fired so not sure you can count him.

[RazorWest]

What that, in turn, would mean, is that those players should have never been signed and their star value just made the class look better than it actually was.

I can agree with that

[ChitownHawg]

My point was that the 4 and 5 stars that Petrino lost were due to injury or they just couldn't crack the rotation and transferred.  So just saying that he didn't lose 4 and 5 star players that were going to get any playing time.  Thus who cares.  Basically that a lot of 4 and 5 star players he got were way overrated out of High school.  That of course would call in some poor evaluation too

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification and apologize my thick skull required a second post. 

[luke hawg]

So best recruiting, player retention, and development since joining the SEC with 3 winning seasons and more players put in the NFL in consecutive years than at any point in our history. Yes fire this man before year 5 for so we can start over. We have a slow fanbase.

[ChicoHog]

I would say the SEC is still pretty strong. I think it is more of some non-SEC teams are getting better. We were 6-7 in bowls this year and every SEC team that lost was playing a team with a better record. With the except of Bama in the NC game.

Match any conference team for team with the SEC to see how strong we are. Was Arkansas a top team this year? No. We were #5 in the West.

In the Big 10 the #5 team was Northwestern and Maryland. Big 12 was TCU. Pac 12 was OSU and UCLA. ACC was Wake Forest and Georgia Tech.

I like our odds against any of those #5 teams. It is the SEC's depth that makes it so strong.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/standings?season=2016&group=9

I agree with some of your points but Northwestern and Maryland fifth in the Big 10?  No way.  OSU, Penn st, Wisconsin and UM were at the top obviously.  Then Minnesota, Iowa and NU were definitely way better than Northwestern and Maryland.  I'd say only Purdue, Rutgers, Illinois, MSU and maybe IU were on or below the Maryland/Northwestern level. 

[luke hawg]

The slow fanbase is crowing about retention and players going to the NFL, blatantly ignoring results on the scoreboard that actually matters.
Don't forget $ while you're at it.

It's about to be his 5th year which is exactly the number of years a player can be in a college program without a medical. He has one losing season in his first year and 3 average seasons. We should fire him before year 5 despite every indicator of future success being positive. Do you have something against the possibility of being competitive and winning? Yes it's just a possibility but staying the course is the most probable chance of success. I think some of you just like tracking planes and firing up the hype machine for the next guy.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I agree with some of your points but Northwestern and Maryland fifth in the Big 10?  No way.  OSU, Penn st, Wisconsin and UM were at the top obviously.  Then Minnesota, Iowa and NU were definitely way better than Northwestern and Maryland.  I'd say only Purdue, Rutgers, Illinois, MSU and maybe IU were on or below the Maryland/Northwestern level. 

I believe that this is the way that the 2016 Big Ten Conf final standings worked out.

1   Penn State   East   8   1   0.889
1   Ohio State   East   8   1   0.889
3   Michigan      East   7   2   0.778
3   Wisconsin    West   7   2   0.778
5   Iowa          West   6   3   0.667
5   Nebraska    West   6   3   0.667
7   Minnesota   West   5   4   0.556
7   Northwstrn  West   5   4   0.556
9   Indiana       East   4   5   0.444
10   Maryland   East   3   6   0.333
11   Illinois      West   2   7   0.222
12   Mich St    East   1   8   0.111
12   Purdue    West   1   8   0.111
14   Rutgers    East   0   9   0.000

[ChitownHawg]

I agree with some of your points but Northwestern and Maryland fifth in the Big 10?  No way.  OSU, Penn st, Wisconsin and UM were at the top obviously.  Then Minnesota, Iowa and NU were definitely way better than Northwestern and Maryland.  I'd say only Purdue, Rutgers, Illinois, MSU and maybe IU were on or below the Maryland/Northwestern level.

I provided the link for you to see. Fox Sports has the 2016 B10 as:

Penn
OSU
MI
IN
MY
MSU
RUTGERS



WI
IA
NE
MN
NW
IL
Purdue

But you are focusing on the teams. It doesn't matter as my point is the 5 seeds in the B10 are not as strong as the 5 seeds in the SEC.

[hawgfan4life]

Statistics don't always provide all the important information without much more analysis and data and the ability to discern non-tangible variables.  What your post didn't include is that HDN and BP coached in the SEC when it was significantly less talented top to bottom in the Western Division as it has been during BB's tenure.  It didn't show that BP's teams got man-handled by Bama each year.  It doesn't account for the obvious cheating that has gone on in recent years with many of the SEC teams that has seemed to escalate during the past few years, although this year it seemed to go back to normal levels.

HDN was better than many like to acknowledge, but he would be getting killed in the SEC West today.  BP was an offensive genius when he had the QB and the WRs to run his offense.  However, all other areas of the team were never too impressive and neither was his overall offensive success prior to having the QB and WRs to execute.  His recruiting and success like HDN's was bolstered when he had a loaded group of skilled offensive players at the same time that were from AR.

Fans are failing to recognize the level of recruiting and retaining of athletes that BB has been doing since his arrival.  He has and is developing a depth chart that has players with talent that are developing.  We have been very close to breaking the ceiling the past two seasons.  Once we do, it will be sustainable and we will create a new ceiling.  The single most important piece of data in the entire article is that BB is retaining players.  BP nor HDN did that successfully and was why they were constantly gambling on recruits during January and signing week.

[LZH]

Bielema himself has said that season 5 is the target, so yeah, we will see.  I sat at the bowl game extremely pissed to see a 24 to nothing half-time lead evaporate , but I do see depth in the o-line, overall team GPA's higher, and parents responding positively.  So I will patiently wait for season 5.... It is not too much to ask after following Coach Smiley Smith.

Of course, in year five he will be working on running $20M thru his bank account by then. What about year three? It has been good to other coaches.....

Holtz  -  Sugar Bowl
Hatfield  -  Orange Bowl
Ford  -  SECCG
Nutt  -  LV Bowl
Petrino  -  Sugar Bowl
Bielema  -  Liberty Bowl

I just don't understand why people make comparisons between and Nutt and Bielema....

[Bubba's Bruisers]

What that, in turn, would mean, is that those players should have never been signed and their star value just made the class look better than it actually was.

Except for injuries, yes.  Could also mean they couldn't crack the rotation because of other 4 stars ahead of them.  Could also mean that players just didn't gel with BP, which likely has nothing to do with talent.  I'm betting it takes a unique player mindset to handle someone like BP.  I bet many of the player defections weren't simply talent related.  Likely more about attitude issues and getting the shock of their life having to live in BP's world.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

The slow fanbase is crowing about retention and players going to the NFL, blatantly ignoring results on the scoreboard that actually matters.
Don't forget $ while you're at it.

Completely agree.  Wins are what matters, and so far the results have been mediocre.  The end of the 2016 season left many scratching their heads...what a colossal failure that was hopefully an anomaly. 

However, I see improvement.  I see measurable potential.  I see a stabilizing roster and program.  No way should we be talking about firing BB right now.  Year 5 is critical, though.  Year 5 should really provide clarity of BB's capabilities as our HC.  I think it will be hard for one to be on the fence after year 5.  We should pretty much know by then...barring something odd like an unusually high number of key injuries.  He needs to show us something in year 5.  Like 8-4 with a bowl win king of something.

[Deep Shoat]

The slow fanbase is crowing about retention and players going to the NFL, blatantly ignoring results on the scoreboard that actually matters.
Don't forget $ while you're at it.

Intelligent, able to look beyond instant gratification, long term health of the program fans are able to look past the scoreboard to see that healthy academics, retention, and NFL players are important factors in developing a program with staying power.  A couple of really good seasons was nice.  But building a program that is consistently good and able to be great when the stars align, at Arkansas, requires something different.  And no matter how much you [CENSORED] keep yelling about it, we aren't going to significantly improve our recruiting.  It just isn't possible without major cheating.  Therefore, retention and development that leads to sustained growth that leads to a slight bump in recruiting which leads to consistency in winning which leads to potential to take advantage of cycles in the SEC is the most logical method to get where we want to be.

[Hogwild]

I would say the SEC is still pretty strong. I think it is more of some non-SEC teams are getting better. We were 6-7 in bowls this year and every SEC team that lost was playing a team with a better record. With the except of Bama in the NC game.

Match any conference team for team with the SEC to see how strong we are. Was Arkansas a top team this year? No. We were #5 in the West.

In the Big 10 the #5 team was Northwestern and Maryland. Big 12 was TCU. Pac 12 was OSU and UCLA. ACC was Wake Forest and Georgia Tech.

I like our odds against any of those #5 teams. It is the SEC's depth that makes it so strong.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/standings?season=2016&group=9

The ACC was the best conference last season, the SEC was 2nd.

Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt and Kentucky all lost to ACC teams last season. 

[LZH]

Intelligent, able to look beyond instant gratification, long term health of the program fans are able to look past the scoreboard to see that healthy academics, retention, and NFL players are important factors in developing a program with staying power.  A couple of really good seasons was nice.  But building a program that is consistently good and able to be great when the stars align, at Arkansas, requires something different.

So you were OK with Nutt?

Look past the scoreboard? What? Winning matters. Making apologies for mediocrity by pointing to academics or NFL draft picks or whatever is too funny.

[factchecker]

So you were OK with Nutt?

Look past the scoreboard? What? Winning matters. Making apologies for mediocrity by pointing to academics or NFL draft picks or whatever is too funny.

You were here during the Nutt debacle.  You know that the reason fans turned against him went well beyond winning %.

[LZH]

You were here during the Nutt debacle.  You know that the reason fans turned against him went well beyond winning %.

Of course I do, but these diversionary tactics are just so...transparent and unnecessary. I don't understand - why not just call it like it is? We may get better next year or we may not, but 7-6 in year four is what it is.

[ChitownHawg]

The ACC was the best conference last season, the SEC was 2nd.

Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, Ole Miss, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, Vanderbilt and Kentucky all lost to ACC teams last season.

While that is debatable, my response was to someone saying the SEC was terrible last year. We were not. We just were not as dominant.

And I think that type of dominance may not be seen again. Big10 and ACC are building the conference depth that ONLY the SEC had just a few short years ago.

SEC isn't terrible as this person stated.

[Deep Shoat]

So you were OK with Nutt?

Look past the scoreboard? What? Winning matters. Making apologies for mediocrity by pointing to academics or NFL draft picks or whatever is too funny.

Are you fricking stupid?  Or do you just like to be contrary.  Nutt wasn't building good academics, he wasn't retaining players, and he wasn't helping kids get to the NFL.  Hell, he played the best LT of a generation at TE. 

Try some reading comprehension.

[Gonzo]

Hey guys,

First-time poster on here, but thought this would be as good as anything for a first post... This is something I wrote over at Hawgs247. I spent a lot of time on it and want to get it out to as many people as possible. Enjoy: http://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/Five-years-in-Examining-Bret-Bielema-as-a-recruiter-51166403

Interesting read, kudos on your research effort. I will say, though, I think we have different definitions of "by far".


Go Hogs!

[bennyl08]

I see the names, just curious out of those who do we really care left?  Maybe Wade?  The others didn't pan out for whatever reason.  Wade was also arrested in 2012 also he left after Petrino was fired so not sure you can count him.

Wade proved he had Adams talent against other SEC teams and was a bit bigger. Peters was freshmen all-sec and has been very good at the school he transferred to. Barnett never made it to campus, but was very productive at Oklahoma St. Signed as a UDFA and was on the practice squad for the browns. Sure, he isn't out there making all pro in the NFL, but how many DT's have we had even make a practice squad in the NFL over the past 10 years or so. Robert Thomas and Philon are the only two that come to mind.

[Pig In The City]

He is recruiting well for Arkansas. Unfortunately other SEC West teams are recruiting better.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

The slow fanbase is crowing about retention and players going to the NFL, blatantly ignoring results on the scoreboard that actually matters.
Don't forget $ while you're at it.

The fan base isn't slow. It is just that many of the more rational posters understand and can recognize improvement in other areas and discuss those things in a positive way. They also realize that we aren't winning at a level that all of us would like to see for the Hogs. But as you know, winning in the SEC at high levels isn't easy.

How about Auburn? Their recruiting classes from 2013-2016 averaged #8.25 in the country. Yet from 2014-2016 their SEC record is 11-13. Compare that to Arkansas' record of 10-14 with recruiting classes that averaged #24.5.

Or how about Texas A&M whose recruiting classes averaged #10.75 from 2013-2016 and were only able to muster a 11-13 SEC record from 2014-2016?

And then there is Ole Miss who had recruiting classes that averaged #11.25 from 2013-2016 but could only win 3 more SEC games over the 3 year period of 2014-2016 than the Hogs. You would think that a team with a high average in recruiting classes should have been able to win more than just 1 more SEC game per year than a team with recruiting classes that ranked 13 spots lower.

And every one of these teams had weaker SEC SOS's over the period of 2014-2016 than Arkansas.

We all want to win more. It is just that a lot of you want to ignore the recruiting of our opponents and what we have to face each week in terms of a comparison of talent on the field and then scream about why we aren't winning more.

I'm not making any excuses for the way the season ended in 2016. We left 2 regular season wins on the field this year and another in a bowl game. Those kinds of mistakes have to be corrected. No argument here. But let's take into account the fact that it isn't easy climbing the ladder in the SEC. Let's discuss, not make an irrational rant.

[ChitownHawg]

The fan base isn't slow. It is just that many of the more rational posters understand and can recognize improvement in other areas and discuss those things in a positive way. They also realize that we aren't winning at a level that all of us would like to see for the Hogs. But as you know, winning in the SEC at high levels isn't easy.

How about Auburn? Their recruiting classes from 2013-2016 averaged #8.25 in the country. Yet from 2014-2016 their SEC record is 11-13. Compare that to Arkansas' record of 10-14 with recruiting classes that averaged #24.5.

Or how about Texas A&M whose recruiting classes averaged #10.75 from 2013-2016 and were only able to muster a 11-13 SEC record from 2014-2016?

And then there is Ole Miss who had recruiting classes that averaged #11.25 from 2013-2016 but could only win 3 more SEC games over the 3 year period of 2014-2016 than the Hogs. You would think that a team with a high average in recruiting classes should have been able to win more than just 1 more SEC game per year than a team with recruiting classes that ranked 13 spots lower.

And every one of these teams had weaker SEC SOS's over the period of 2014-2016 than Arkansas.

We all want to win more. It is just that a lot of you want to ignore the recruiting of our opponents and what we have to face each week in terms of a comparison of talent on the field and then scream about why we aren't winning more.

I'm not making any excuses for the way the season ended in 2016. We left 2 regular season wins on the field this year and another in a bowl game. Those kinds of mistakes have to be corrected. No argument here. But let's take into account the fact that it isn't easy climbing the ladder in the SEC. Let's discuss, not make an irrational rant.

Great post.

I don't mind people being concerned and stating their concerns. What gets old is in almost every thread they post the same point as if we don't know what their opinion is after they have posted it 1,000 times. Just gets old.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Of course, in year five he will be working on running $20M thru his bank account by then. What about year three? It has been good to other coaches.....

Holtz  -  Sugar Bowl
Hatfield  -  Orange Bowl
Ford  -  SECCG
Nutt  -  LV Bowl
Petrino  -  Sugar Bowl
Bielema  -  Liberty Bowl

I just don't understand why people make comparisons between and Nutt and Bielema....

Just an observation, only one of those coaches won that final game of year three.

[LZH]

Just an observation, only one of those coaches won that final game of year three.

Yeah that's right, but I don't put as much stock in bowl game W/L's these days so I never really considered them when making my smart-alec list. There are so many bowls that it's almost like another regular season game unless you are in THE bowl game.

Of course, that's just me. Lots of folks on here would say they feel differently. We are both old enough to remember when our bowl record was an embarrassment each year when it was mentioned on national TV during that particular year's bowl game.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Yeah that's right, but I don't put as much stock in bowl game W/L's these days so I never really considered them when making my smart-alec list. There are so many bowls that it's almost like another regular season game unless you are in THE bowl game.

Of course, that's just me. Lots of folks on here would say they feel differently. We are both old enough to remember when our bowl record was an embarrassment each year when it was mentioned on national TV during that particular year's bowl game.

That's why we don't talk much about bowl games on here.  15-24-3 as a program. Of course even making a bowl game in the past 20 years means nothing compared to what it used to.

[LZH]

That's why we don't talk much about bowl games on here.  15-24-3 as a program. Of course even making a bowl game in the past 20 years means nothing compared to what it used to.

From the time I was 10 through my teenage years, through my 20's, up until my early 30's we won only 3 games and lost like 14 or 15. I only remember because it was chiseled into my brain.

[FANONTHEHILL]

From the time I was 10 through my teenage years, through my 20's, up until my early 30's we won only 3 games and lost like 14 or 15. I only remember because it was chiseled into my brain.

Not sure if your age, but I'm 46. Only bowl game I seem to be able to remember from my childhood is the Orange Bowl over OU.  I think that's what the psychiatrists call selective memory!

[ChitownHawg]

From the time I was 10 through my teenage years, through my 20's, up until my early 30's we won only 3 games and lost like 14 or 15. I only remember because it was chiseled into my brain.

Our pathetic bowl record is what makes victories like the Orange Bowl so sweet.

And it still felt good stomping UT into a mud hole even though they were a pathetic team. Hating the Longhorns is in my blood. 

[LZH]

Not sure if your age, but I'm 46. Only bowl game I seem to be able to remember from my childhood is the Orange Bowl over OU.  I think that's what the psychiatrists call selective memory!

I'm 49, and the Cotton Bowl win over Georgia was the first I ever watched. Two years later we beat Oklahoma and then began the most embarrassing run of bowl game appearances that anyone could have imagined. We finally spanked Texas in that same Cotton Bowl after the '99 season, and that seemed to heal everyone's pride a bit.

Our pathetic bowl record is what makes victories like the Orange Bowl so sweet.

And it still felt good stomping UT into a mud hole even though they were a pathetic team. Hating the Longhorns is in my blood. 

Save MJ's fumble inside the 10-yard line in '04, we have completely owned Texas each and every time we have played them over the last 25 years. Gotta love it.

[ChitownHawg]

I'm 49, and the Cotton Bowl win over Georgia was the first I ever watched. Two years later we beat Oklahoma and then began the most embarrassing run of bowl game appearances that anyone could have imagined. We finally spanked Texas in that same Cotton Bowl after the '99 season, and that seemed to heal everyone's pride a bit.

Save MJ's fumble inside the 10-yard line in '04, we have completely owned Texas each and every time we have played them over the last 25 years. Gotta love it.

I forgot about the Junkyard Dogs.

[HoggyCat]

Five years in???  I know it seems that Long, but it's only been 4.

[bennyl08]

Five years in???  I know it seems that Long, but it's only been 4.

4 seasons, 5 recruiting classes.

[3kgthog]

So, higher retention rate but much worse results on the field.

I fail to see the positives for Bielema here.

[HoggyCat]

Are you fricking stupid?  Or do you just like to be contrary.  Nutt wasn't building good academics, he wasn't retaining players, and he wasn't helping kids get to the NFL.  Hell, he played the best LT of a generation at TE. 

Try some reading comprehension.

You're right on every note. But he was still way better than Jr is.

And Jr played a S....  err LB..... err TE at QB. 

[LZH]

I know you don't realize it, but you're the one looking 'fricking stupid' every time you spout off at someone like this.

You get it - he obviously didn't. My point went right over his head, but he never knew it. I'm just not very argumentative this weekend for some reason....Geez, I'm slipping. 

[bennyl08]

So you were OK with Nutt?

Look past the scoreboard? What? Winning matters. Making apologies for mediocrity by pointing to academics or NFL draft picks or whatever is too funny.

Of course winning matters. If we never get above 7 regular season wins, Bielema could be having the entire team get 4.0's and he'd still rightfully get fired. Haven't heard anybody claim otherwise.

However, I also don't see anybody nor or athletic department making apologies for mediocrity by pointing to academics of NFL draft picks. I see the department not making excuses or trying to divert attention, but instead making solutions by hiring new coaches.

In the thread on academics, I already pointed that that academics were the #1 priority for recruits and were what coaches first sell a kid on about the school above anything else. You think it is an accident that our recruiting and talent level has demonstrably improved despite our w-l record not being as good as it shortly was?

[LZH]

Of course winning matters. If we never get above 7 regular season wins, Bielema could be having the entire team get 4.0's and he'd still rightfully get fired. Haven't heard anybody claim otherwise.

However, I also don't see anybody nor or athletic department making apologies for mediocrity by pointing to academics of NFL draft picks. I see the department not making excuses or trying to divert attention, but instead making solutions by hiring new coaches.

In the thread on academics, I already pointed that that academics were the #1 priority for recruits and were what coaches first sell a kid on about the school above anything else. You think it is an accident that our recruiting and talent level has demonstrably improved despite our w-l record not being as good as it shortly was?

I took issue with "look past the scoreboard" and other similar comments which were obviously intended to be a distraction by a few on here who have been defending BB for little else than just to be contrary.

Similar to another thread yesterday, if words that I never said weren't put into my mouth there would be no discussion. Of course I believe academics are of utmost importance, as they should be. But by the same token, don't expect me to believe that if we had won 10 or 11 games in each of the past few years that academics would ever have even been brought up.

You can't recruit kids that don't care about their grades, because that likely means they won't care about other things as well. But the SEC isn't slinging around all that TV money because fans/viewers get worked up over APR's.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I took issue with "look past the scoreboard" and other similar comments which were obviously intended to be a distraction by a few on here who have been defending BB for little else than just to be contrary.

Similar to another thread yesterday, if words that I never said weren't put into my mouth there would be no discussion. Of course I believe academics are of utmost importance, as they should be. But by the same token, don't expect me to believe that if we had won 10 or 11 games in each of the past few years that academics would ever have even been brought up.

You can't recruit kids that don't care about their grades, because that likely means they won't care about other things as well. But the SEC isn't slinging around all that TV money because fans/viewers get worked up over APR's.

Oh, I'm not sure that anyone has an intent to purposely "distract" when discussing our W-L record by talking about other positive things that are going on within the program. I think that everyone is just stating their opinion about how they feel about the progress of the program. Some think that we should be winning 9-10-11 games every year (and we certainly should have won more than we did in 2016) and contending for the West. Others are more patient and willing to let this whole thing play out because of the other improvements that they see taking place.

Problem is, all of us at times get a little too defensive about our opinions of the state of the program and fire back with posts that are laced with unnecessary vitriol. Truth is, if we were all sitting down having a cup of coffee or a beer and discussing this in person, we would probably find out that we don't see things all that differently in terms of the big picture.

I know that you know that we have a lot of recruiting limitations that include the state, the competition in the region and nationally and that we make it tougher in terms of recruiting by adding other factors that limit the number of kids that we can target. And, we have a coaching staff that has made some mistakes at times in games and in preparation for games that have cost us wins. If you are a team like Alabama you might make those same mistakes, but the overwhelming amount of talent that you have, bails you out most of the time. We don't have that luxury so the margin of error is decidedly smaller for us, than a team full of top ten classes. Although I think that it is important to note that this hasn't seemed to help teams like Auburn, A&M and Ole Miss.

I love the fact that for the most part, the kids that we are signing are of higher character, are smarter and more committed to excellence on and off the field. But make no mistake, I want to win at higher levels as well, as I think all of us do.

[ChitownHawg]

Oh, I'm not sure that anyone has an intent to purposely "distract" when discussing our W-L record by talking about other positive things that are going on within the program. I think that everyone is just stating their opinion about how they feel about the progress of the program. Some think that we should be winning 9-10-11 games every year (and we certainly should have won more than we did in 2016) and contending for the West. Others are more patient and willing to let this whole thing play out because of the other improvements that they see taking place.

Problem is, all of us at times get a little too defensive about our opinions of the state of the program and fire back with posts that are laced with unnecessary vitriol. Truth is, if we were all sitting down having a cup of coffee or a beer and discussing this in person, we would probably find out that we don't see things all that differently in terms of the big picture.

I know that you know that we have a lot of recruiting limitations that include the state, the competition in the region and nationally and that we make it tougher in terms of recruiting by adding other factors that limit the number of kids that we can target. And, we have a coaching staff that has made some mistakes at times in games and in preparation for games that have cost us wins. If you are a team like Alabama you might make those same mistakes, but the overwhelming amount of talent that you have, bails you out most of the time. We don't have that luxury so the margin of error is decidedly smaller for us, than a team full of top ten classes. Although I think that it is important to note that this hasn't seemed to help teams like Auburn, A&M and Ole Miss.

I love the fact that for the most part, the kids that we are signing are of higher character, are smarter and more committed to excellence on and off the field. But make no mistake, I want to win at higher levels as well, as I think all of us do.

Musk & Led, let's also not ignore the "winning is everything" and "winning at all costs" crowd that is on here. They were loud when CBP was shown the door and they are loud today. Just take a look at the What's Missing From The Program? thread.

[bennyl08]

I took issue with "look past the scoreboard" and other similar comments which were obviously intended to be a distraction by a few on here who have been defending BB for little else than just to be contrary.

Similar to another thread yesterday, if words that I never said weren't put into my mouth there would be no discussion. Of course I believe academics are of utmost importance, as they should be. But by the same token, don't expect me to believe that if we had won 10 or 11 games in each of the past few years that academics would ever have even been brought up.

You can't recruit kids that don't care about their grades, because that likely means they won't care about other things as well. But the SEC isn't slinging around all that TV money because fans/viewers get worked up over APR's.

Academics were just as routinely brought up under Petrino when we were winning double digits. Good academics are always worth bringing up. Alabama is just as quick to tote their academic accomplishments too. I think it was JPW  that you couldn't watch a game without hearing about his GPA.

[Peter Porker]

Of course, in year five he will be working on running $20M thru his bank account by then. What about year three? It has been good to other coaches.....

Holtz  -  Sugar Bowl
Hatfield  -  Orange Bowl
Ford  -  SECCG
Nutt  -  LV Bowl
Petrino  -  Sugar Bowl
Bielema  -  Liberty Bowl

I just don't understand why people make comparisons between and Nutt and Bielema....

Oh wow, Danny Ford's bowl game was the SEC CG. Nice. He must be the best of them all. Out of curiosity what were season 4 and 5 for him?

[Mike_e]

I'm 49, and the Cotton Bowl win over Georgia was the first I ever watched. Two years later we beat Oklahoma and then began the most embarrassing run of bowl game appearances that anyone could have imagined. We finally spanked Texas in that same Cotton Bowl after the '99 season, and that seemed to heal everyone's pride a bit.

Save MJ's fumble inside the 10-yard line in '04, we have completely owned Texas each and every time we have played them over the last 25 years. Gotta love it.

I seem to recall CBP having a little trouble with the short horns. 

[LZH]

I seem to recall CBP having a little trouble with the short horns. 

Oops. Honest mistake....(think anyone will believe that?) 

[PonderinHog]

Save MJ's fumble inside the 10-yard line in '04, we have completely owned Texas each and every time we have played them over the last 25 years. Gotta love it.

Somebody forgot about 2008 in Austin.

Oops. Honest mistake....(think anyone will believe that?) 

No!