Five years in: Examining Bielema as a recruiter

[NWAHutch]

Hey guys,

First-time poster on here, but thought this would be as good as anything for a first post... This is something I wrote over at Hawgs247. I spent a lot of time on it and want to get it out to as many people as possible. Enjoy: http://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/Five-years-in-Examining-Bret-Bielema-as-a-recruiter-51166403

[Chief Mac]

Good stuff!  Kudos on the data mining!

[hogcard1964]

Interesting and good read.  Thanks for sharing.  A lot of our resident homers won't like it, but it says a lot.

[Tarheelhawg]

Thanks! Interesting read.

[Razorbackers]

Hey guys,

First-time poster on here, but thought this would be as good as anything for a first post... This is something I wrote over at Hawgs247. I spent a lot of time on it and want to get it out to as many people as possible. Enjoy: http://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/Five-years-in-Examining-Bret-Bielema-as-a-recruiter-51166403

Great stuff as always, Hutch.

[Razorbackers]

Interesting and good read.  Thanks for sharing.  A lot of our resident homers won't like it, but it says a lot.

Go on...lol

[PorkRinds]

Interesting and good read.  Thanks for sharing.  A lot of our resident homers won't like it, but it says a lot.

What does it say and why wouldn't homers like it?

[hogcard1964]

Go on...lol

Ever hear of the term "more with less"?

[Southern Hogspitality]

Great read thank you!

[Razorbackers]

Ever hear of the term "more with less"?

Oooh, I see where you're going.

I feel like we've danced around that comparison enough for one lifetime. But I'm sure someone else will take you up on it!

[ricepig]

Oooh, I see where you're going.

I feel like we've danced around that comparison enough for one lifetime. But I'm sure someone else will take you up on it!

"Less filling"

[Razorbackers]

"Less filling"

Tastes salty, tho.

[Darren DeLoach]

Good article. Supports what every informed fan has known for a long time. Somehow the one smart guy above thinks this helps his cause that Coach BB is lacking as a recruiter just doesn't get it. Nor will his ilk, but that shouldn't surprise anyone.

[hogcard1964]

Good article. Supports what every informed fan has known for a long time. Somehow the one smart guy above thinks this helps his cause that Coach BB is lacking as a recruiter just doesn't get it. Nor will his ilk, but that shouldn't surprise anyone.

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

Interesting and good read.  Thanks for sharing.  A lot of our resident homers won't like it, but it says a lot.

Not sure why Bielema's supporters wouldn't like an article that says he's recruited, and retained recruits, better than his predecessors.

[Razorbackers]

Not sure why Bielema's supporters wouldn't like an article that says he's recruited, and retained recruits, better than his predecessors.

His point would be that Petrino did more with less, meaning he won 10 and 11 games.

What we didn't get to witness was Petrino's probable dip that would have started the year he got fired, because he had recruited defenders so poorly, and his offensive weaponry was vastly diminished.

Of course, there's no way to prove what I'm saying. Long fired CBP before any of that could happen, and rightfully so. And because we melted down in the last 2 halves of the season, people have claimed that CBB is garbage, even though at this point last year, they were thinking we were going to win 10 games in 2016.

That last part not directed at HC...just a general vibe, mostly.

[younghog]

Hey guys,

First-time poster on here, but thought this would be as good as anything for a first post... This is something I wrote over at Hawgs247. I spent a lot of time on it and want to get it out to as many people as possible. Enjoy: http://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/Five-years-in-Examining-Bret-Bielema-as-a-recruiter-51166403

Heck of an article and very informative.

KEEP EM COMING.. ~GO HOGS

[hogfan14]

Crazy that a 42nd ranked class used to be 10th in the SEC in the early 2000's and now a 23rd ranked class is 11th

[GalaHawg]

Thanks OP for gathering the data. Based on this data, I'd say CBB is only slightly better than the previous two in term of coaching but he is much better at retaining them. Only if he could have also convinced Kirkland, Philon, and Collins stay one more year.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Hey guys,

First-time poster on here, but thought this would be as good as anything for a first post... This is something I wrote over at Hawgs247. I spent a lot of time on it and want to get it out to as many people as possible. Enjoy: http://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/Five-years-in-Examining-Bret-Bielema-as-a-recruiter-51166403

Thanks for the work and input. BTW welcome to HV. At times you might find yourself thinking to yourself "Why in the world did I ever stick my foot in it by joining that site"?

[hawgtime]

Good stuff!  Kudos on the data mining!

good info.. so far he hasn't WOW'd me!  i hope he can make it over the top and start pulling in some WOW recruits.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Interesting and good read.  Thanks for sharing.  A lot of our resident homers won't like it, but it says a lot.

While it's factual I'm not sure where "resident homers" as you call them would be offended. I believe most of us are aware that we haven't always played up to our potential. So what else is new? Donk!!

[Vantage 8 dude]

Not sure why Bielema's supporters wouldn't like an article that says he's recruited, and retained recruits, better than his predecessors.

All you need remember is that hogcard1964 is usually spouting something snarky or demeaning concerning anything or anyone who might not actively hate or otherwise constantly criticize CBB and staff. He just can't help it 'cause it's in his DNA.

[hogcard1964]

Crazy that a 42nd ranked class used to be 10th in the SEC in the early 2000's and now a 23rd ranked class is 11th

Doh!!!

[Tarheelhawg]

While I don't blindly support Coach Bielema, it does bode well for him that his recruiting has been evidently better than his predecessors and most importantly that his emphasis on player development is well documented (see Wisconsin). I have read nothing but good comments from his players and their parents, so I am hoping for the best.   

[Piggfoot]

Studies like this may be interesting but they do not reveal the complete story. It does not indicate the relative strength of our opponents classes nor does it reveal the strength of our opponents coaching staffs.
In my opinion Nutt came into the SEC when the West was weak.  Petrino profited some  of the best Arkansas high school athletes produced in years. Bielema has worked harder bringing in out of state talent.

[12247]

I have always contended that BBs recruiting is at least equal to our past 20 years of HCs and now someone who has more patience than me has proven so.  Thank you Sir.  As for BB being just slightly better at coaching than either Nutt or Petrino, there is absolutely no evidence of that in these past 4 years.  And as to his ability to develop players, where has that really stuck out here in Arkansas.  He flips assistants here like IHOP flips hotcakes which is also a trait of BBs.  Many on here keep seeing that best staff ever at Arkansas, maybe even the best ever assembled in college football which is just short of pure horseshit.  This best staff ever cannot produce a second team that could stand against Pisspoor High School and for sure cannot produce a first team that can compete in the SEC anywhere above just below average.  Exactly where is all that development of talent.  Currently doing less with more and no sunny future unless BB decides to actually coach a bit, this being his 5th upcoming season and a good year to give poor ole Long just any reason to keep him around.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Season 5 will tell the tale.  It should reveal enough to confirm one way or the other what BB is made of.  I'm ready for season 5.

[swineology]

Hey guys,

First-time poster on here, but thought this would be as good as anything for a first post... This is something I wrote over at Hawgs247. I spent a lot of time on it and want to get it out to as many people as possible. Enjoy: http://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/Five-years-in-Examining-Bret-Bielema-as-a-recruiter-51166403

While BB's recruiting has been better, the halftime adjustments and crappy use of the play clock has sucked.

[gchamblee]

While BB's recruiting has been better, the halftime adjustments and crappy use of the play clock has sucked.

which has nothing to do with recruiting, the subject of this thread and article. you worried someone might think cbb did something right? you here to correct them and get them to thinking straight? good on you.

[Tarheelhawg]

Bielema himself has said that season 5 is the target, so yeah, we will see.  I sat at the bowl game extremely pissed to see a 24 to nothing half-time lead evaporate , but I do see depth in the o-line, overall team GPA's higher, and parents responding positively.  So I will patiently wait for season 5.... It is not too much to ask after following Coach Smiley Smith.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

While BB's recruiting has been better, the halftime adjustments and crappy use of the play clock has sucked.

The latter was the same complaint from Wisky fans.

Regardless, I don't think BB's recruiting has been obviously better than his Predecessor, but his retention rate appears to be measurably better, and that's significant in regards to talent.  Just have to make sure we take advantage of what talent we do have.

[hawginbigd1]

The latter was the same complaint from Wisky fans.

Regardless, I don't think BB's recruiting has been obviously better than his Predecessor, but his retention rate appears to be measurably better, and that's significant in regards to talent.  Just have to make sure we take advantage of what talent we do have.

Stick to those guns his recruiting is head and shoulders above the last 2, there are no 42nd ranked classes, and there haven't been any classes that had 7 or 8 or 9 contributors to date.

[ChicoHog]

Couple things stand out.

#1 is that the number of Arkansas HS players that signed with Power 5 programs about 10 years ago was significantly higher than now is not a good sign.  What is going on in HS football to lose those numbers? 

#2 - BB's retention rate is much higher than Nutt and Petrino

Most importantly the recruiting classes cannot be truly ranked/evaluated until they have exhausted their eligibility and see how many got drafted or made NFL rosters and what round were they drafted?  That shows if you recruited the right guys.  That tells you how much talent you had, not how many stars they had coming out of HS.  Ask Mack Brown about that stat.  Supposedly his classes were highly ranked the last few years before he retired but hardly had any draft choices especially O-lineman.  So he chose the wrong guys regardless of star rankings. 

[Snizzzo]

Couple things stand out.

#1 is that the number of Arkansas HS players that signed with Power 5 programs about 10 years ago was significantly higher than now is not a good sign.  What is going on in HS football to lose those numbers? 

#2 - BB's retention rate is much higher than Nutt and Petrino

Most importantly the recruiting classes cannot be truly ranked/evaluated until they have exhausted their eligibility and see how many got drafted or made NFL rosters and what round were they drafted?  That shows if you recruited the right guys.  That tells you how much talent you had, not how many stars they had coming out of HS.  Ask Mack Brown about that stat.  Supposedly his classes were highly ranked the last few years before he retired but hardly had any draft choices especially O-lineman.  So he chose the wrong guys regardless of star rankings.

On paper, CBB's classes are better that our average classes, and that has been without great instate crops. 

[Swine-as-wine]

After reading that article, it leads me to believe that both Nutt and Petrino were better coaches than CBB, with both doing
more with less.

[Swine-as-wine]

........his retention rate appears to be measurably better..........

That tends to happen when players leave early for the draft.

[factchecker]

That tends to happen when players leave early for the draft.

?

Are you saying Alex Collins, Hunter Henry, and/or Denver Kirkland would have transferred or been dismissed had they not left early?

[Pork Twain]

The latter was the same complaint from Wisky fans.

Regardless, I don't think BB's recruiting has been obviously better than his Predecessor, but his retention rate appears to be measurably better, and that's significant in regards to talent.  Just have to make sure we take advantage of what talent we do have.

How much more would it take for it to be obvious for you?  Good effort by the OP, but some just have to drag every post down.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Stick to those guns his recruiting is head and shoulders above the last 2, there are no 42nd ranked classes, and there haven't been any classes that had 7 or 8 or 9 contributors to date.

You too, man.  I see scholarship offers.  They aren't obviously better than BP.  Nutt, yes, but not BP.  And so far, the results on the field are not better either.  And that's not a dig at BB.  He's got a tremendously difficult job recruiting to UA for many, many reasons.  He's done well considering the limited instate options.

I'm not off the BB bandwagon.  I'm cautiously optimistic.  Year 5 will tell the tale IMO.

[Razorbackers]

While BB's recruiting has been better, the halftime adjustments and crappy use of the play clock has sucked.

Except in those games where we came out and played well in the second half and won.

[DeltaBoy]

Hey guys,

First-time poster on here, but thought this would be as good as anything for a first post... This is something I wrote over at Hawgs247. I spent a lot of time on it and want to get it out to as many people as possible. Enjoy: http://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/Five-years-in-Examining-Bret-Bielema-as-a-recruiter-51166403

Well done research.   Thanks.

[hoghevn]

Studies like this may be interesting but they do not reveal the complete story. It does not indicate the relative strength of our opponents classes nor does it reveal the strength of our opponents coaching staffs.
In my opinion Nutt came into the SEC when the West was weak.  Petrino profited some  of the best Arkansas high school athletes produced in years. Bielema has worked harder bringing in out of state talent.

THIS RIGHT HERE!!  The SEC West was horrible - INCLUDING ALABAMA!!  During Nutt and Petrino, Florida was the goal and we couldn't even come close to them.  I'm not blindly defending CBB.  But, if you think Nutt could make it now, you're crazy.  At least CBB makes staff changes and modifies his program to adjust UNLIKE someone else who wouldn't fire any of his cronies, even if they were horrible.  Nutt wouldn't make half-time adjustments, OR season adjustments.  At least CBB will pass when needed to win.  Don't forget all your complaints of prior administrations before you start flaming CBB.  He's lost when he should've won.  BUT, at least he addresses the issues and doesn't ignore them or blames the fans or soley takes credit - "I made that call, brutha".  What a DA.  Like I said, I'm not blindly supporting CBB, he's definitely been learning as he goes and I believe his old AD helped him more than we realized.  But every new coach in the SEC has struggled mightily, not just CBB.  Hopefully  he's learning.  I'm not against him yet.

[GoHogzzGo]

Good lord look how good Nutt was doing against rest of SEC despite low ranking. The SEC has just gotten too much friggin better. Bama, Ole Miss, and Miss State has just improved so so much. Makes Ark job a lot harder. And I'm not a CBB fan, I think he has the talent on campus to win, but dang certainly fighting an uphill battle.

[gchamblee]

After reading that article, it leads me to believe that both Nutt and Petrino were better coaches than CBB, with both doing
more with less.

you didnt feel that way before the article? lol

[GoHogzzGo]

After reading that article, it leads me to believe that both Nutt and Petrino were better coaches than CBB, with both doing
more with less.

Yet their classes were ranked higher against the conference so actually they had an easier time, relatively speaking. So Nutt especially did less with less, instead of more with less lol.

[ChitownHawg]

Ever hear of the term "more with less"?

Depends on how you define more and less? There is no doubt CBP was living a blessed life with the amount of quality Arkansas kids. As the report shows, CBB has not had this blessing.

CBP reminded me of Sutton that Eddie had the Triplets early on. And I'm not picking on CBP for being fortunate as I'm sure CBB would like some of that in-state fortune. It does make like easier as the HC of the Razorbacks.

What I like is that CBB is holding onto the kids. CBP was losing too many top recruits and Nutt was just being his incompetent self.

[RazorWest]

THIS RIGHT HERE!!  The SEC West was horrible - INCLUDING ALABAMA!!  During Nutt and Petrino, Florida was the goal and we couldn't even come close to them.  I'm not blindly defending CBB.  But, if you think Nutt could make it now, you're crazy.  At least CBB makes staff changes and modifies his program to adjust UNLIKE someone else who wouldn't fire any of his cronies, even if they were horrible.  Nutt wouldn't make half-time adjustments, OR season adjustments.  At least CBB will pass when needed to win.  Don't forget all your complaints of prior administrations before you start flaming CBB.  He's lost when he should've won.  BUT, at least he addresses the issues and doesn't ignore them or blames the fans or soley takes credit - "I made that call, brutha".  What a DA.  Like I said, I'm not blindly supporting CBB, he's definitely been learning as he goes and I believe his old AD helped him more than we realized.  But every new coach in the SEC has struggled mightily, not just CBB.  Hopefully  he's learning.  I'm not against him yet.

I'm not disagreeing that it was a different time then, but the SEC in general and the SEC West were pretty terrible this year and last outside of Alabama. 

[RazorWest]

Couple things stand out.

#1 is that the number of Arkansas HS players that signed with Power 5 programs about 10 years ago was significantly higher than now is not a good sign.  What is going on in HS football to lose those numbers? 

#2 - BB's retention rate is much higher than Nutt and Petrino

Most importantly the recruiting classes cannot be truly ranked/evaluated until they have exhausted their eligibility and see how many got drafted or made NFL rosters and what round were they drafted?  That shows if you recruited the right guys.  That tells you how much talent you had, not how many stars they had coming out of HS.  Ask Mack Brown about that stat.  Supposedly his classes were highly ranked the last few years before he retired but hardly had any draft choices especially O-lineman.  So he chose the wrong guys regardless of star rankings.

In response to retention.  The article only talks about the four and five stars right?  What stud four or five star did Petrino lose?  I see a bunch of injury problems and overrated players.  I'd say the miss rate on 4 and 5 stars panning out during Petrino's reign is more appropriate than saying he has retention problems.

[ChitownHawg]

I'm not disagreeing that it was a different time then, but the SEC in general and the SEC West were pretty terrible this year and last outside of Alabama.

I would say the SEC is still pretty strong. I think it is more of some non-SEC teams are getting better. We were 6-7 in bowls this year and every SEC team that lost was playing a team with a better record. With the except of Bama in the NC game.

Match any conference team for team with the SEC to see how strong we are. Was Arkansas a top team this year? No. We were #5 in the West.

In the Big 10 the #5 team was Northwestern and Maryland. Big 12 was TCU. Pac 12 was OSU and UCLA. ACC was Wake Forest and Georgia Tech.

I like our odds against any of those #5 teams. It is the SEC's depth that makes it so strong.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/standings?season=2016&group=9