2017 QB / OL Stats Compared to 2016

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Just thought I would put this up. With all the talk of who has or hasn't improved on Offense over last year I thought this might be good information.

2017
Pass Att   Compl       %      Yds      Yds/Att    Yds/Compl    TD   INT   INT Freq   Hurries  Hurry Freq   Sacks   Sack Freq   Rush Att  Yards   YPC    TD    TFLA    TFLA Freq
    45          25       55.6     317        7.0           12.7          3      2       1:22.5        2        1:22.5          5          1:9.0          76         365     4.8      4       11         1:6.9
2016
   406        247       60.8    3434       8.5           13.9         26    15      1:27.1       61        1:6.7           35        1:11.6        517        2135    4.1     21      87        1:5.9

The O-Line is improving. Slightly perhaps, but still improving and it is still early. QB/Receiver performance is down over last years numbers but again, way early and I think we will see this improve as well.

Today's game against A&M will be a huge test for this Offense.

[hogcard1964]

Yea good post.

I think the field is stretched more today. 

+1000

[jst01]

Man, hard to even read that grid of numbers. Hopefully the O line clicks today and gets mean

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Yea good post.

I think the field is stretched more today. 

+1000

Last year vs. A&M we threw the ball the second most (42 pass att) of any game we played in 2016 and the O-Line allowed 3 hurries and 1 sack for one QB pressure in every 10.5 passing attempts. That's the best O-Line performance in terms of pass protection against any P-5 team that we played last season and against a pretty good pass rushing team. Yet, AA threw 2 INT's in that game.

I'd be very happy if the O-Line and RB's allow just 3-4 pressures in the game today.

[lakecityhog]

Yep, it is quite obvious that AA is our problem!

Was it Will Rogers who said there are lies, darned lies and statistics??
Take a full season of stats against teams like Bama, LSU, Auburn and the TCU team we just played and compare them to 2 games. And, one of those game was against a terrible FAMU!

Yeah, nothing like proof!

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Yep, it is quite obvious that AA is our problem!

Was it Will Rogers who said there are lies, darned lies and statistics??
Take a full season of stats against teams like Bama, LSU, Auburn and the TCU team we just played and compare them to 2 games. And, one of those game was against a terrible FAMU!

Yeah, nothing like proof!

Not looking to hammer Allen at all, just presenting some numbers and while I admire your sense of need to defend him, let's remember that the staff and Allen have mentioned his struggles against TCU. He had 1 QB Hurry vs. TCU and did get sacked 3 times for a total of 4 QB pressures.

In 2016 he experienced 1 QB pressure (hurries + sacks) in every 4.8 pass attempts. He experienced the same ratio this year. Same game last year he was 17 of 29 for 223 yards, 2 TD's and no INT's.

My point being is that there is probably some responsibility on the part of AA, but I do think that he is playing tight and putting too much pressure on himself. Couple that with a receiving crew that is really young and seems to have a hard time getting open, and AA holding the ball longer than he should and you have a performance that makes a good QB look a lot worse than he is in reality.

And, the continual hammering of the O-Line performance may be somewhat unfounded. The next installment of current information on the QB, Receivers and the O-Line comes today.

[lakecityhog]

My response is not about "defending" AA it is more about agenda driven posts and the truth. You know as well as I do that you cannot compare 2 games, 1 of which was a cupcake, against an entire season.

The simple truth is that we have had O'Line issues for a couple of years. Go back to last year and see the ATM game or the TCU game or several other games and see just how many times we had a 1st and goal situation and came away with 3 points or sometimes NO points.

We don't block well on field goals, several blocked over the years with no Skipper on the other side of the ball. Think that might get in a Kicker's head a bit?

Our O'Line issues go much deeper than QB protections and I think that you know it.

The simple truth is that a guy like Clary SHOULD have redshirted, it would have been better for him and in the long run, the team. I can guarantee you that he would be a MUCH better player for us as a 5th year senior than he is as a true freshman! You people trying to run around here and convince people that our evaluations are so bad that we missed on 5 different 4* rated recruits is laughable. And if it is true that our evals are that bad we have REAL problems on this staff.

This coaching staff is either failing to develop our O'Line recruits or failing to recognize which players should be on the field.Why in Heaven's name would you be "cross-training" linemen when you cannot get the 5 startes trained well enough to be a cohesive unit???

[MuskogeeHogFan]

My response is not about "defending" AA it is more about agenda driven posts and the truth. You know as well as I do that you cannot compare 2 games, 1 of which was a cupcake, against an entire season.

The simple truth is that we have had O'Line issues for a couple of years. Go back to last year and see the ATM game or the TCU game or several other games and see just how many times we had a 1st and goal situation and came away with 3 points or sometimes NO points.

We don't block well on field goals, several blocked over the years with no Skipper on the other side of the ball. Think that might get in a Kicker's head a bit?

Our O'Line issues go much deeper than QB protections and I think that you know it.

The simple truth is that a guy like Clary SHOULD have redshirted, it would have been better for him and in the long run, the team. I can guarantee you that he would be a MUCH better player for us as a 5th year senior than he is as a true freshman! You people trying to run around here and convince people that our evaluations are so bad that we missed on 5 different 4* rated recruits is laughable. And if it is true that our evals are that bad we have REAL problems on this staff.

This coaching staff is either failing to develop our O'Line recruits or failing to recognize which players should be on the field.Why in Heaven's name would you be "cross-training" linemen when you cannot get the 5 startes trained well enough to be a cohesive unit???

You assume a great deal know very little for certain. I presented facts and even qualified my post (if you read it) by saying it is still very early in the season. We all have our opinions. I don't think our O-Line is as bad as many think and of course if a QB under-performs, the first place fans want to point is to the O-Line. It isn't always accurate, but that's where the average fan usually goes right out of the box.

The O-Line didn't have anything to do with receivers not getting open or dropping balls and they didn't have hardly anything to do with completing just 9 passes out of 23 attempts. AA needs to relax and just throw the ball, not hold onto it too long and the doggone receivers need to get open and stop dropping balls when they are thrown to them.

Do that and the running game will improve as we back 8 out of the box to defend the pass.

[jst01]

You assume a great deal know very little for certain. I presented facts and even qualified my post (if you read it) by saying it is still very early in the season. We all have our opinions. I don't think our O-Line is as bad as many think and of course if a QB under-performs, the first place fans want to point is to the O-Line. It isn't always accurate, but that's where the average fan usually goes right out of the box.

The O-Line didn't have anything to do with receivers not getting open or dropping balls and they didn't have hardly anything to do with completing just 9 passes out of 23 attempts. AA needs to relax and just throw the ball, not hold onto it too long and the doggone receivers need to get open and stop dropping balls when they are thrown to them.

Do that and the running game will improve as we back 8 out of the box to defend the pass.

Hey, it's not just the fans. MANY ex ball players and analysts have said the same thing. The line is an issue. We know you have a weak spot for the line in your heart, it's fine. Lake just presented an outstanding rebuttal and you repeated your same argument. You are right, it's all opinions but many many more people have the opposite opinion as yourself.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Hey, it's not just the fans. MANY ex ball players and analysts have said the same thing. The line is an issue. We know you have a weak spot for the line in your heart, it's fine. Lake just presented an outstanding rebuttal and you repeated your same argument. You are right, it's all opinions but many many more people have the opposite opinion as yourself.

Saying, "everyone knows the O-Line is a problem", is an overused and typical bandwagon phrase at this time of the year. Last year we did have some problems and the numbers show that. But just as some say, "you can't compare this year and two games to last year", by the same token, those folks can't pronounce judgement on this O-Line, or the team for that matter, after just two games.

Today will be a test. As I said, we will have more updated information on this team as a whole around 4 p.m. today. But I'll tell you this, if the A&M defense puts 8 in the box, we aren't going to run the ball well and that is exactly what I expect to see. Well designed run blitzes to seal up the run and try to make us beat them with our passing game. AA better not hold onto the ball for longer than 3-1/2 seconds and receivers better find a way to get open and catch the ball or we will see more of what we saw last weekend.

[hawgfan4life]

I defended BB until after the TCU game.  Those defending Clary miss the point.  He might be grading out nicely and doing awesome.  Good for him, but if he is good now he would be great as a 5th year player.  We have at least 4 other OL that were higher rated, have been in our system multiple years already being developed, and with a lot of playing experience against top teams.  No way in hades a true FR should need to start.  In year 5, that is a major problem.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I defended BB until after the TCU game.  Those defending Clary miss the point.  He might be grading out nicely and doing awesome.  Good for him, but if he is good now he would be great as a 5th year player.  We have at least 4 other OL that were higher rated, have been in our system multiple years already being developed, and with a lot of playing experience against top teams.  No way in hades a true FR should need to start.  In year 5, that is a major problem.

FanOnTheHill could speak more accurately to this, but I'm sure he will choose to not comment, but sometimes, you can lead a player (or horse) to water but you can't make them drink.

When all of these kids were evaluated and recruited I'm sure that the staff expected to them to progress and be motivated to push themselves to continue to improve, but sometimes that just isn't what happens and if they don't have it inside them and someone else does have that drive to succeed, what do you do? You can't instill the personality trait of being driven to succeed in kids if they don't have it to begin with. You can teach and train and motivate all you want but a player has to have that desire inside them to begin with. And then too, some kids just hit their ceiling and can't get beyond it. A ceiling that coaches thought was much higher when they were recruited.

So do you go ahead and play them because the fans think that they are 4 star players and should be playing? Or do you play the guys who are pushing and excelling in practice? If you have a kid who can help you now and you need him because others refuse to step it up, do you just R/S him?

If I were a P-5 coach I believe I would play the best 5 that I have. The ones who want it bad enough to be committed and disciplined enough to come to work every day and improve. And I don't care if it is a freshman. I wouldn't want 5 of them starting for me, but one is fine.

[PygmalionEffect2]

But I'll tell you this, if the A&M defense puts 8 in the box, we aren't going to run the ball well and that is exactly what I expect to see. Well designed run blitzes to seal up the run and try to make us beat them with our passing game

We didn't do a good job of countering TCU's blitzes with a short passing game.  We tried a few screen's in the flat but I don't remember anything going over the middle where the LB had vacated to blitz.  That's what well coached teams are able to do.

Enos has seen this for two games in a row, I hope he has come up with a strategy to burn the defense when they play so aggressively, play after play, after play.

[Dominicanhog]

It was obvious where the problem was last week and it wasn't in the OL.... it's in the rest of the offense and starts with the trigger man...

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We didn't do a good job of countering TCU's blitzes with a short passing game.  We tried a few screen's in the flat but I don't remember anything going over the middle where the LB had vacated to blitz.  That's what well coached teams are able to do.

Enos has seen this for two games in a row, I hope he has come up with a strategy to burn the defense when they play so aggressively, play after play, after play.

We had one QB Hurry and gave up 3 Sacks vs. TCU, mostly due to holding the ball too long. I agree, need some quick hitters behind the LB's but we also need what you describe, some passes to RB's after they block and release. Screens would be needed as well.

[jst01]

Hey Musk. You collecting your information yet? Seems like the O line kinda stinks today.

[lakecityhog]

No he can't! He is simply too invested to give an unbiased answer surely even you can understand that.
Did today's performance do anything to change your mind???

[Dark Helmet Hog]

Sorry. For good or bad, all I see here is an attempt at this.

Just wait till next year. It will be better...

We need to be better right now.

[lakecityhog]

Muskee, care to re-visit this post???

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Muskee, care to re-visit this post???

I know you are looking for an argument, let's not approach it that way, ok? As I said, this game would give us more information and it did.

We got a lot of pressure last night, as we expected. By far our worst showing since the Alabama, Ole Miss and Auburn games last season where our QB's faced pressure on average every 2.5, 3.2 and 1.7 passing attempts.

Last night the total QB Pressures (sacks and hurries) on average came every 1.9 passing attempts.

A few of those came from holding the ball too long, two on one drive. Overall, our QB's have more time and better protection passing out of play-action. I'm not sure why we don't do that more.

The O-Line has some problems, especially at OT and early on at an OG position. I saw some TE's and RB's miss their pass pro as well last night. One thing is for certain and that is collectively, we have to improve in this area.

If there is a bright side we made significant improvement in blocking the run game where we went from 4.2 yards/carry vs. TCU to 5.0 yards/carry vs. A&M.

[leroyhawg]

My response is not about "defending" AA it is more about agenda driven posts and the truth. You know as well as I do that you cannot compare 2 games, 1 of which was a cupcake, against an entire season.

The simple truth is that we have had O'Line issues for a couple of years. Go back to last year and see the ATM game or the TCU game or several other games and see just how many times we had a 1st and goal situation and came away with 3 points or sometimes NO points.

We don't block well on field goals, several blocked over the years with no Skipper on the other side of the ball. Think that might get in a Kicker's head a bit?

Our O'Line issues go much deeper than QB protections and I think that you know it.

The simple truth is that a guy like Clary SHOULD have redshirted, it would have been better for him and in the long run, the team. I can guarantee you that he would be a MUCH better player for us as a 5th year senior than he is as a true freshman! You people trying to run around here and convince people that our evaluations are so bad that we missed on 5 different 4* rated recruits is laughable. And if it is true that our evals are that bad we have REAL problems on this staff.

This coaching staff is either failing to develop our O'Line recruits or failing to recognize which players should be on the field.Why in Heaven's name would you be "cross-training" linemen when you cannot get the 5 startes trained well enough to be a cohesive unit???

Who was QB playing behind those offensive lines,  it's hard to say but there's the problem

[lakecityhog]

Actually I wasn't looking for an argument as much as an admission, but it appears that you do not have the ability to admit that you were wrong.

Now it appears that we have another player's father tweeting questions about the O'Line.

WE HAVE ISSUES WITH OUR O'LINE!

And, a lot of them are not talent related. Try to explain to me in a way that makes sense why in heaven's name a coach would spend 5 seconds trying to "cross-train" linemen when it is obvious that we are not position trained very well right now.

The one area of any team that absolutely requires cohesion is the O'Line and "we" sat the CAPTAIN of the O'Line out of practice way too much. Why would you do that? Why would you not put the 5 best on the field TOGETHER and let them develop some chemistry?

Why are we constantly experimenting with guys in different spots EVERY year? Why do we hear EVERY year that "it will be hard to keep Zach Rogers off the field" and then he never sees the field? Why is it we hear that "Wallace had his best 2 weeks of practice" but he cannot play?

Yeah, we have some O'Line issues, but the issues darned sure are not the O'Line!!!!

[Andrew Hogfan]

/quote]
Elaborate please