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Bret Bielema: 'Only a couple teams have that, and they're the elite teams'

Started by gchamblee, July 16, 2017, 06:26:18 pm

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hogsanity

Quote from: tusked on July 18, 2017, 06:51:53 am
Here's the thing, finishing #5 in the country is the new bar. 


Why? I mean, why isn't it a NC because they did that ONCE in 1964?

This program, since entering the sec is a 7-8 win a season team over 25 years.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Gonzo


 

Gonzo


HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: Bacons Rebellion on July 18, 2017, 11:23:18 am
It reassures me to know that if we win a SECW Championship, people will still have a reason to complain about CBB.
They probably would. You know why? Because when HDN did it they sarcastically said 'they give out rings for SEC West titles?'.

Now I would never say that. I know that winning the SEC West, even pre-Saban, was a huge deal. But some of these morons did.

HotlantaHog

I think most fans are in the cautious optimism state of mind. Each season the team starts out undefeated and without obvious flaws... we get to see how things unfold... There's no real ill will toward CBB ... those that don't like him basically would like to win more, it's not personal... if he starts to win a good bit more, the fan base will be pretty united, not looking for the next loss to give up ...

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on July 18, 2017, 02:18:23 pm
They probably would. You know why? Because when HDN did it they sarcastically said 'they give out rings for SEC West titles?'.

Now I would never say that. I know that winning the SEC West, even pre-Saban, was a huge deal. But some of these morons did.

So because they said that about Nutt, you would hold it against Bielema?
Go Hogs Go!

HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 18, 2017, 02:31:08 pm
So because they said that about Nutt, you would hold it against Bielema?
Never.
Winning an SEC football division is a huge deal. And should be acknowledged as such. Then, and now.

Tusks

Quote from: hogsanity on July 18, 2017, 11:59:04 am
Why? I mean, why isn't it a NC because they did that ONCE in 1964?

This program, since entering the sec is a 7-8 win a season team over 25 years.

"There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" RFK
sometimes it's a good and some times it's a schit

ZERO

Quote from: tusked on July 18, 2017, 02:56:29 pm
"There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?" RFK

What happens when you can come up with logical and quantifiable "why nots"? Nice easily digestible quote for Facebook, though.
Quote from: Squealers on December 30, 2014, 05:14:49 pmCharlie Strong and I have something in common... yesterday we both got colonoscopies.

Quote"These fans hate Texas more than they like themselves."

Tusks

Quote from: ZERO on July 18, 2017, 03:28:47 pm
What happens when you can come up with logical and quantifiable "why nots"? Nice easily digestible quote for Facebook, though.

Your comment still doesn't hide the fact that the Hogs finished #5 in the country, it's in the books, it happened.  I think it should happen more often, like maybe once every 4 years.  No reason in the world that shouldn't be the goal and the standard for success of the program.  Should the program have a goal of winning the SEC, yes, but it should also have a goal of being in the top 10.
sometimes it's a good and some times it's a schit

razorsharptusk

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 17, 2017, 07:45:02 pm
So many on this board just absolutely love having a "snarky take" on what we have seen so far. Does it make you feel superior to do so, as if you all know something that all of the rest of us haven't witnessed?

I don't think that any of us are completely satisfied with what we have seen on the field.

To me, this season is a "truth telling" year. 5th season at the helm, plenty of time to recruit your way out of problems despite our recruiting disadvantage. You have a OC in whom you have confidence, a DC who it seems that you have confidence in and a change to a 3-4 that fits our defensive personnel better. This is the year that we need to achieve better things. Need to win 9 in the regular season or at least 8 with every single game being absolutely competitive and not just giving games away after building a lead.

No reason to win less than 7 this year in the regular season, top end being 10. Need to get focused and get it done.

Yep!
GO HOGS!!

AirWarren

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 17, 2017, 07:45:02 pm
So many on this board just absolutely love having a "snarky take" on what we have seen so far. Does it make you feel superior to do so, as if you all know something that all of the rest of us haven't witnessed?

I don't think that any of us are completely satisfied with what we have seen on the field.

To me, this season is a "truth telling" year. 5th season at the helm, plenty of time to recruit your way out of problems despite our recruiting disadvantage. You have a OC in whom you have confidence, a DC who it seems that you have confidence in and a change to a 3-4 that fits our defensive personnel better. This is the year that we need to achieve better things. Need to win 9 in the regular season or at least 8 with every single game being absolutely competitive and not just giving games away after building a lead.

No reason to win less than 7 this year in the regular season, top end being 10. Need to get focused and get it done.

I got my popcorn ready for the nutjobs waiting to blame newborn baby Bielema for the struggles.

Bebop

Quote from: AP85 on July 18, 2017, 04:57:34 pm
I got my popcorn ready for the nutjobs waiting to blame newborn baby Bielema for the struggles.

I'm ready for the built-in excuses that people are going to come up with if we underachieve like we have been doing.

 

hobhog

Quote from: Bebop on July 18, 2017, 06:25:38 pm
I'm ready for the built-in excuses that people are going to come up with if we underachieve like we have been doing.

Good for you, Eeyore.....

Beat the rush! Get down early!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Bebop on July 18, 2017, 06:25:38 pm
I'm ready for the built-in excuses that people are going to come up with if we underachieve like we have been doing.

I don't think that in this particular season, that you are going to see a lot of folks making excuses for Bielema. The one uncontrollable thing that we have suffered that I can think of is the loss of RW III. No one saw that coming or could have in any way planned for that to happen. Other than that, I think that this staff has to own this team and the results.
Go Hogs Go!

hobhog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 18, 2017, 06:29:43 pm
I don't think that in this particular season, that you are going to see a lot of folks making excuses for Bielema. The one uncontrollable thing that we have suffered that I can think of is the loss of RW III. No one saw that coming or could have in any way planned for that to happen. Other than that, I think that this staff has to own this team and the results.

Losing Williams at RB was even more damaging couple of years ago. That cost us a few wins no doubt. Hogs just aren't deep enough to lose high end running backs/skill positions. Hopefully we have some freshman ready to step up or coach B will feel heat. Eventually you have to break thru.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hobhog on July 18, 2017, 06:38:50 pm
Losing Williams at RB was even more damaging couple of years ago. That cost us a few wins no doubt. Hogs just aren't deep enough to lose high end running backs/skill positions. Hopefully we have some freshman ready to step up or coach B will feel heat. Eventually you have to break thru.

Normally, I might be worried, but I am not as concerned though I hated losing RWIII.

Maleek Williams is going to be a big surprise, I believe. According to the staff he has grasped the offense and blocking schemes more quickly than anyone that they have had and executes at a high level. Think about that compared to others we have had and how good they have been. I think Maleek will do very well.

We got the Senior Transfer from S. Carolina and he is going to provide experienced depth when we really need it.

Hammonds is most likely going to see some carries out of the backfield and he has the speed to make some big plays.

If all goes well, maybe we can develop Chase Hayden and keep a R/S on him all season. Not sure if it will work out that way or not but it would be good to R/S him if we can. If not, he'll get limited reps but might be a good contributor as a true freshman, though he doesn't have the benefit of having been here all spring like Maleek.

And, you never know, we have a couple of DB's that were pretty doggone good RB's in high school who played at high levels that we might be able to move over for some reps if we absolutely needed them to do so, if for no other reason than emergency depth.

Finally we have Whaley and I think after a year of experience and learning how important it is to be able to not only read the creases as they open but be able to block effectively, I think that he will really embrace the role as the lead RB and barring injury, I think he will be our next RB to eclipse 1,000 yards in a season. We haven't seen the best that he has to offer yet.

So I'm not all that worried. I think that we will be fine at RB, despite the loss of RWIII.
Go Hogs Go!

Nosboar Accubond

Quote from: HamSammich on July 16, 2017, 07:11:09 pm
I think I support CBB more than the average fan here but I cringed when I read that article. Changing the defense because you can't evaluate the three star defensive linemen better seems poor. Then the excuse making as to why the defense was down.

Newsflash CBB, it want just the defensive linemen. The linebackers unable to shed blocks and be in position as with our safety's looking lost on some plays had a YUGGGE part to play.
We just didn't have the talent at the LBer spot, glad to see it's been such an emphasis in recruiting

AirWarren


JD Hogg

Quote from: (notOM)Rebel123 on July 17, 2017, 10:18:17 pm
In Bobby's best year he couldn't get within 3 TD's of Bama & LSU.

Technically, you're correct.  But, in 2010, his second best year, he lost by 4 to Bama and by 5 to LSU.  Sadly, we'll never know how 2012 would've turned out if he'd been allowed to stay.

hawgon

Quote from: JD Hogg on July 19, 2017, 10:05:48 am
Technically, you're correct.  But, in 2010, his second best year, he lost by 4 to Bama and by 5 to LSU.  Sadly, we'll never know how 2012 would've turned out if he'd been allowed to stay.

Uh, I'm pretty sure we dominated LSU and took a knee to end the game in 2010.  I mean it's possible that I really didn't attend that game in Little Rock and that it was all an elaborate dream sequence, but I seem to remember an exciting play or two by some receivers and a running back having a nice day.

jkstock04

Quote from: Bebop on July 18, 2017, 06:25:38 pm
I'm ready for the built-in excuses that people are going to come up with if we underachieve like we have been doing.
Here's a litmus test for you...if after this first game you see many reoccurring phrases such as "first game jitters" "don't want to show our cards to the rest of the conference" "vanilla" you know there are still issues. Heard the same crap after Jacksonville state in 2012 and look how that worked out. Clues to how this team will play will be evident from the first snap regardless what the homers may try to spin.

We need to crush Florida A&M on that Thursday night. No mistakes, and it needs to be a high number where we come out of the blocks fast and look impressive. If the end score is something like 31-17 with tons of mental errors then this will be a long year.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

hawgon

Quote from: jkstock04 on July 19, 2017, 11:12:11 am
Here's a litmus test for you...if after this first game you see many reoccurring phrases such as "first game jitters" "don't want to show our cards to the rest of the conference" "vanilla" you know there are still issues. Heard the same crap after Jacksonville state in 2012 and look how that worked out. Clues to how this team will play will be evident from the first snap regardless what the homers may try to spin.

We need to crush Florida A&M on that Thursday night. No mistakes, and it needs to be a high number where we come out of the blocks fast and look impressive. If the end score is something like 31-17 with tons of mental errors then this will be a long year.

You forgot, "Looking ahead to the TCU game."

DeltaBoy

Quote from: Polecat on July 17, 2017, 10:49:40 am
truth

That what Patterson  and Bumpas  did at TCU.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

 

RME

Quote from: JD Hogg on July 19, 2017, 10:05:48 am
Technically, you're correct.  But, in 2010, his second best year, he lost by 4 to Bama and by 5 to LSU.  Sadly, we'll never know how 2012 would've turned out if he'd been allowed to stay.

That's not correct at all. Pretty sure we won 31-23. Bequette had a late sack to pretty much seal it if I recall. Knile ran crazy and Cobi scored on the huge play right before half.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on July 19, 2017, 11:44:22 am
That's not correct at all. Pretty sure we won 31-23. Bequette had a late sack to pretty much seal it if I recall. Knile ran crazy and Cobi scored on the huge play right before half.

2010           
Arkansas  20       Alabama  24
Arkansas  31       LSU        23                   
Go Hogs Go!

theFlyingHog

Quote from: RyanMallettsEgo on July 19, 2017, 11:44:22 am
That's not correct at all. Pretty sure we won 31-23. Bequette had a late sack to pretty much seal it if I recall. Knile ran crazy and Cobi scored on the huge play right before half.
Yeah idk how we went to the sugar bowl after that loss to LSU. Lol

Großer Kriegschwein

This is my non-signature signature.

HognitiveDissonance

After commenting on Bielema's first year and not much was expected that year from me, it got me to thinking.
I had said that even though that was a 'free pass' year, I still thought we should have won a game or two in the SEC. The 0-8 will be stain on his record, like Pelphrey's 2-14.
So if you go back to that very first season, even though there wasn't much talent, there were some disturbing things happen then that are still problems today. Games getting away.

Ole Miss in LR--winnable game, we lose 31-30
Miss St in LR -- fumble on the 9-yard line, end up losing to them too and go 0-8 in the SEC
LSU -- allow LSU to go 99 yards with a minute left to win 31-27
Rutgers--was up 24-7 and dominating only to blow the huge lead.

So in that very first year things happened that still haven't been fixed.
In the ensuing years, we find ways to blow late leads against A&M in both 2014 and 2015. Games that should have been won.
And we all know about the meltdowns against Missouri and Virginia Tech, blowing HUGE leads.

Year1 through Year 4, the same stuff is going on.
CBB is just not a great coach. Good, yea. But he's not an elite coach.

DeltaBoy

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on July 19, 2017, 12:10:00 pm
After commenting on Bielema's first year and not much was expected that year from me, it got me to thinking.
I had said that even though that was a 'free pass' year, I still thought we should have won a game or two in the SEC. The 0-8 will be stain on his record, like Pelphrey's 2-14.
So if you go back to that very first season, even though there wasn't much talent, there were some disturbing things happen then that are still problems today. Games getting away.

Ole Miss in LR--winnable game, we lose 31-30
Miss St in LR -- fumble on the 9-yard line, end up losing to them too and go 0-8 in the SEC
LSU -- allow LSU to go 99 yards with a minute left to win 31-27
Rutgers--was up 24-7 and dominating only to blow the huge lead.

So in that very first year things happened that still haven't been fixed.
In the ensuing years, we find ways to blow late leads against A&M in both 2014 and 2015. Games that should have been won.
And we all know about the meltdowns against Missouri and Virginia Tech, blowing HUGE leads.

Year1 through Year 4, the same stuff is going on.
CBB is just not a great coach. Good, yea. But he's not an elite coach.

I am  becoming concern that your Right and he will be nothing more than HDN 2.0.
If the South should lose, it means that the history of the heroic struggle will be written by the enemy, that our youth will be trained by Northern school teachers, will be impressed by all of the influences of history and education to regard our gallant dead as traitors and our maimed veterans as fit subjects for derision.
-- Major General Patrick Cleburne
The Confederacy had no better soldiers
than the Arkansans--fearless, brave, and oftentimes courageous beyond
prudence. Dickart History of Kershaws Brigade.

factchecker

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on July 19, 2017, 12:10:00 pm
Ole Miss in LR--winnable game, we lose 31-30

We didn't play Ole Miss in Little Rock that season.  We lost 24-34 @ Oxford.
WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

ZERO

Pretty sure the "lost to LSU by 5" guy above just made a mental error and meant to say Ohio State by 5. A game that we would have won if not for that scoop-n-score mistake. And then the Auburn game was a tight one, despite the box score saying we got smoked. A lot of things went wrong late in that game.
Quote from: Squealers on December 30, 2014, 05:14:49 pmCharlie Strong and I have something in common... yesterday we both got colonoscopies.

Quote"These fans hate Texas more than they like themselves."

gchamblee

Quote from: ZERO on July 19, 2017, 12:54:21 pm
Pretty sure the "lost to LSU by 5" guy above just made a mental error and meant to say Ohio State by 5. A game that we would have won if not for that scoop-n-score mistake. And then the Auburn game was a tight one, despite the box score saying we got smoked. A lot of things went wrong late in that game.

As often as it is pointed out how lucky CBB has been to win some of his games, it is fair to note that CBP barely beat plenty of scrubs while he was our coach as well. The double standard is amusing.

hawgon

Quote from: gchamblee on July 19, 2017, 01:09:20 pm
As often as it is pointed out how lucky CBB has been to win some of his games, it is fair to note that CBP barely beat plenty of scrubs while he was our coach as well. The double standard is amusing.

You mean that double standard of comparing wins to losses?  Boy, I'll tell you, you are something else.

HognitiveDissonance

Quote from: factchecker on July 19, 2017, 12:41:15 pm
We didn't play Ole Miss in Little Rock that season.  We lost 24-34 @ Oxford.
You're right, that must have been 2012.

gchamblee

Quote from: hawgon on July 19, 2017, 02:48:32 pm
You mean that double standard of comparing wins to losses?  Boy, I'll tell you, you are something else.

My post was plainly stated with common english words. The fact that you took something from it other than what I said is reason to question your schooling.

presidenthog

Quote from: hawgon on July 19, 2017, 02:48:32 pm
You mean that double standard of comparing wins to losses?  Boy, I'll tell you, you are something else.

How can people like you not see that Bobby peaked here at arkansas in 2010-11. He isn't winning the acc with the best player in the country. He had defensive holdovers from the previous staff who had a good defense.

Bobby was a great coach, but I'm not sure he is as good as he was here.

ZERO

Quote from: gchamblee on July 19, 2017, 01:09:20 pm
As often as it is pointed out how lucky CBB has been to win some of his games, it is fair to note that CBP barely beat plenty of scrubs while he was our coach as well. The double standard is amusing.

On the contrary, as good as Bielema's record was at Wisconsin, and as many one-score losses as he's had at Arkansas, I've come to think he has generally been very UNlucky to lose those, rather than lucky to win the others. The only problem I have is there have been enough head-scratchers to make me think that maybe it isn't bad luck, maybe it's just bad. I want to be wrong, but I guess we'll see over the next two years what he's really made of.

Bobby got lucky as hell against Vandy in '11, that's the one that stands out to me the absolute most. We should not have won that game. But he managed to win and win frequently in his short time here.
Quote from: Squealers on December 30, 2014, 05:14:49 pmCharlie Strong and I have something in common... yesterday we both got colonoscopies.

Quote"These fans hate Texas more than they like themselves."

theFlyingHog

Quote from: ZERO on July 19, 2017, 05:17:33 pm
On the contrary, as good as Bielema's record was at Wisconsin, and as many one-score losses as he's had at Arkansas, I've come to think he has generally been very UNlucky to lose those, rather than lucky to win the others. The only problem I have is there have been enough head-scratchers to make me think that maybe it isn't bad luck, maybe it's just bad. I want to be wrong, but I guess we'll see over the next two years what he's really made of.

Bobby got lucky as hell against Vandy in '11, that's the one that stands out to me the absolute most. We should not have won that game. But he managed to win and win frequently in his short time here.
That's where I'm at. Sometimes the other team gets the break but when the other team almost always gets the break then you have a problem. I am on the fence and this season will decide where my feet land. I want CBB to win here but my gut has been saying it will not happen

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: HognitiveDissonance on July 19, 2017, 12:10:00 pm
After commenting on Bielema's first year and not much was expected that year from me, it got me to thinking.
I had said that even though that was a 'free pass' year, I still thought we should have won a game or two in the SEC. The 0-8 will be stain on his record, like Pelphrey's 2-14.
So if you go back to that very first season, even though there wasn't much talent, there were some disturbing things happen then that are still problems today. Games getting away.

Ole Miss in LR--winnable game, we lose 31-30
Miss St in LR -- fumble on the 9-yard line, end up losing to them too and go 0-8 in the SEC
LSU -- allow LSU to go 99 yards with a minute left to win 31-27
Rutgers--was up 24-7 and dominating only to blow the huge lead.

So in that very first year things happened that still haven't been fixed.
In the ensuing years, we find ways to blow late leads against A&M in both 2014 and 2015. Games that should have been won.
And we all know about the meltdowns against Missouri and Virginia Tech, blowing HUGE leads.

Year1 through Year 4, the same stuff is going on.
CBB is just not a great coach. Good, yea. But he's not an elite coach.

I'm not as negative as many on here but I'm also not blind to the fact that there have been some errors made along the way and I don't think that any of us can deny that.

I can give Bielema a break in having to re-mold and re-shape the team from one philosophy to the next. I can give him a break for having had to rebuild the attitude and trust of a team that was pretty devastated when their leader went and did something that went against everything that he kept wanting to hold them to in terms of trust and discipline, and then the next year his interim successor was a laughing stock at press conferences, after they had proclaimed so much trust and respect for him "post BP". That had to be tough for them...realizing that your HC is embarrassing the program every time he steps in front of a microphone. So yeah, I can give Bielema a break for having had to deal with a bunch of crap that most new coaches do not have to deal with.

What had me bewildered was not winning a single SEC game his first year. What I also cannot excuse after that first year is getting beaten by teams that you should not be beaten by and blowing leads in other games that for all intents and purposes, you should have won. There just isn't a "good" excuse for a lot of that and you had better be learning from your mistakes in years two through four so that those same things are not allowed to be repeated.

Now that said, I think that Bielema has brought a ton of positives to the program in other ways and I am thankful to him for that. I love our program and how it is promoted to young student athletes and their parents and the college football world as a whole. All of that is great, but as a HC in the SEC, you still have to win games. I wouldn't be as harsh about this but I can see how we really could have won 9 to 10 games in each of the last 3 seasons if not for mistakes made by players who are coached by this staff.

You can't always control the mental or physical mistakes that players make or when they fail to execute, but something keeps ringing in my ears from my days in college when our coach would emphasize that it isn't just, "Practice makes perfect, it is PERFECT PRACTICE that makes for perfect performance in games". That requires a higher than normal level of commitment by both the staff and the players and it is up to the staff to motivate the team to that end.

So, after having matriculated as a HC in the SEC for 4 years, having your players on the team and hopefully having learned from your mistakes the last four years in terms of judgement, calls, schemes, philosophy, game planning and in-game adjustments, I'll just say that we really should win at least 9 this year. That is my expectation for this staff and for Coach Bielema, who I truly like as our HC. But we need to win a few more games this season. Less than 9 in the absence of mitigating and unpredictable negative occurrences, would be a major disappointment and perhaps time to re-evaluate our direction after the 2018 season.
Go Hogs Go!

hawgon

The guy has not coached with a sense of urgency.  Can anyone imagine the momentum this program would have right we had won the nine or ten we should have in each of the last three years? 

The dumbest thing I see is the people who talk about our limitations and how we are a seven or eight win program.  Dang it, we had nine or ten in our grasp the last three years.  Heck, last year's team was the worst of the last three and had some real blowouts, but had to have two of the largest chokes of the last 50 years NOT to win nine games.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hawgon on July 19, 2017, 07:32:31 pm
The guy has not coached with a sense of urgency.  Can anyone imagine the momentum this program would have right we had won the nine or ten we should have in each of the last three years? 

The dumbest thing I see is the people who talk about our limitations and how we are a seven or eight win program.  Dang it, we had nine or ten in our grasp the last three years.  Heck, last year's team was the worst of the last three and had some real blowouts, but had to have two of the largest chokes of the last 50 years NOT to win nine games.

Historically, since joining the SEC, we have been on average an 8 win team over the years. Some upticks, some downticks, but overall and on average an 8 win team. Now, the fact that we probably could have and should have won 9-10 each year for the last 3 years tells you that Bielema is not that far away from making us THAT team. He has made mistakes, no doubt about it. It has cost us. Frankly I think he underestimated the SEC when he thought that he wanted to come here. But he is a competitor and has a lot of pride and confidence in his ability. Let us hope that the lessons he has learned while being here and that the staff and players that he has now, can finally turn that corner and establish themselves as a 9-10 win team.
Go Hogs Go!

hawgon

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 19, 2017, 07:40:09 pm
Historically, since joining the SEC, we have been on average an 8 win team over the years. Some upticks, some downticks, but overall and on average an 8 win team. Now, the fact that we probably could have and should have won 9-10 each year for the last 3 years tells you that Bielema is not that far away from making us THAT team. He has made mistakes, no doubt about it. It has cost us. Frankly I think he underestimated the SEC when he thought that he wanted to come here. But he is a competitor and has a lot of pride and confidence in his ability. Let us hope that the lessons he has learned while being here and that the staff and players that he has now, can finally turn that corner and establish themselves as a 9-10 win team.

Hell, Houston Nutt wasn't that far away.  The story of Arkansas in the SEC has not been one of our inherent limitations.  It has been, but for one four year stretch, that of a historically top 20 program hamstrung by mediocre to poor coaching.  And having said that, even HDN had at least two teams with real chances at a national championship had they gotten the breaks and taken advantage of the ones they got.

If we get another great coach, this program will be great again.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hawgon on July 19, 2017, 07:45:17 pm
Hell, Houston Nutt wasn't that far away.  The story of Arkansas in the SEC has not been one of our inherent limitations.  It has been, but for one four year stretch, that of a historically top 20 program hamstrung by mediocre to poor coaching.  And having said that, even HDN had at least two teams with real chances at a national championship had they gotten the breaks and taken advantage of the ones they got.

If we get another great coach, this program will be great again.

I think we can both agree that if we had good chances at a SEC/NC it was probably during HDN's years here before the SEC turned into a monster that eats it's own. One of the other differences is that Bielema has had to work his arse off to recruit better talent because the SEC has become so much more competitive. HDN had a lot of really great Arkansas and nearby talent fall into his lap before there was the equivalent of a national championship for recruiting in the SEC.
Go Hogs Go!

hawgon

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 19, 2017, 07:53:57 pm
I think we can both agree that if we had good chances at a SEC/NC it was probably during HDN's years here before the SEC turned into a monster that eats it's own. One of the other differences is that Bielema has had to work his arse off to recruit better talent because the SEC has become so much more competitive. HDN had a lot of really great Arkansas and nearby talent fall into his lap before there was the equivalent of a national championship for recruiting in the SEC.

I'm not agreeing on anything.   Bielema has flat out under achieved and squandered numerous chances to have had a really nice run the last three years.  No one should make excuses for him.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hawgon on July 19, 2017, 07:57:05 pm
I'm not agreeing on anything.   Bielema has flat out under achieved and squandered numerous chances to have had a really nice run the last three years.  No one should make excuses for him.

I'm not making excuses for Bielema at all. I'm just pointing out that his perceived underachievement to date has come under more difficult circumstances than the same underachievement by HDN under less difficult and less competitive circumstances. I think it is important to have the proper perspective when comparing coaching tenures.
Go Hogs Go!

hawgon

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 19, 2017, 08:01:06 pm
I'm not making excuses for Bielema at all. I'm just pointing out that his perceived underachievement to date has come under more difficult circumstances than the same underachievement by HDN under less difficult and less competitive circumstances. I think it is important to have the proper perspective when comparing coaching tenures.

Yes, you are.  His lack of achievement has nothing to do with how tough the SEC is.  If he had just won the games in WHICH WE HAD LEADS LATE IN THE SECOND HALF, then he is one of the best coaches we had.  Heck, if he had just won 2/3rds of those, it is a completely different program.  I'm not talking about the Bamas.  I'm talking about the Toledos, the Texas Techs, the Rutgers and other lesser lights.  And for goodness sakes, I'm talking about Texas A&M.  Is he the only Arkansas coach to lose to th collie fornicaters four years in a row?

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 19, 2017, 07:19:10 pm
I'm not as negative as many on here but I'm also not blind to the fact that there have been some errors made along the way and I don't think that any of us can deny that.

I can give Bielema a break in having to re-mold and re-shape the team from one philosophy to the next. I can give him a break for having had to rebuild the attitude and trust of a team that was pretty devastated when their leader went and did something that went against everything that he kept wanting to hold them to in terms of trust and discipline, and then the next year his interim successor was a laughing stock at press conferences, after they had proclaimed so much trust and respect for him "post BP". That had to be tough for them...realizing that your HC is embarrassing the program every time he steps in front of a microphone. So yeah, I can give Bielema a break for having had to deal with a bunch of crap that most new coaches do not have to deal with.

What had me bewildered was not winning a single SEC game his first year. What I also cannot excuse after that first year is getting beaten by teams that you should not be beaten by and blowing leads in other games that for all intents and purposes, you should have won. There just isn't a "good" excuse for a lot of that and you had better be learning from your mistakes in years two through four so that those same things are not allowed to be repeated.

Now that said, I think that Bielema has brought a ton of positives to the program in other ways and I am thankful to him for that. I love our program and how it is promoted to young student athletes and their parents and the college football world as a whole. All of that is great, but as a HC in the SEC, you still have to win games. I wouldn't be as harsh about this but I can see how we really could have won 9 to 10 games in each of the last 3 seasons if not for mistakes made by players who are coached by this staff.

You can't always control the mental or physical mistakes that players make or when they fail to execute, but something keeps ringing in my ears from my days in college when our coach would emphasize that it isn't just, "Practice makes perfect, it is PERFECT PRACTICE that makes for perfect performance in games". That requires a higher than normal level of commitment by both the staff and the players and it is up to the staff to motivate the team to that end.

So, after having matriculated as a HC in the SEC for 4 years, having your players on the team and hopefully having learned from your mistakes the last four years in terms of judgement, calls, schemes, philosophy, game planning and in-game adjustments, I'll just say that we really should win at least 9 this year. That is my expectation for this staff and for Coach Bielema, who I truly like as our HC. But we need to win a few more games this season. Less than 9 in the absence of mitigating and unpredictable negative occurrences, would be a major disappointment and perhaps time to re-evaluate our direction after the 2018 season.

Quote from: hawgon on July 19, 2017, 08:07:49 pm
Yes, you are.  His lack of achievement has nothing to do with how tough the SEC is.  If he had just won the games in WHICH WE HAD LEADS LATE IN THE SECOND HALF, then he is one of the best coaches we had.  Heck, if he had just won 2/3rds of those, it is a completely different program.  I'm not talking about the Bamas.  I'm talking about the Toledos, the Texas Techs, the Rutgers and other lesser lights.  And for goodness sakes, I'm talking about Texas A&M.  Is he the only Arkansas coach to lose to th collie fornicaters four years in a row?

Remember this from above. Does that really sound like I am making excuses for Bielema?
Go Hogs Go!

hawgon

Classic Bielema is several years ago when we were one of the national darlings in the preseason.  All the pundits loved Bielema and they were really buying into him, the team, and the program.  You couldn't turn on sports radio without hearing Bielema giving an interview to someone.

And what do we do?  We drop the first game to Toledo.  All of that was out the window immediately.  Classic.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hawgon on July 19, 2017, 08:12:05 pm
Classic Bielema is several years ago when we were one of the national darlings in the preseason.  All the pundits loved Bielema and they were really buying into him, the team, and the program.  You couldn't turn on sports radio without hearing Bielema giving an interview to someone.

And what do we do?  We drop the first game to Toledo.  All of that was out the window immediately.  Classic.

"Thrown Flag": Intentional and unnecessary piling on.
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