Have we overestimated demand for club seats?

[HognotinMemphis]

Pal, I'm talking about people making choices to spend their disposable income in   how ever they choose. I've been in business for years, what one person/family does with $100,000, another can do it with $60,000. You can't just say it takes $100,000 in income to be a club level season ticket holder. Some are single, some are retired, some have families, but I guarantee you, they all don't fit in your cookie cutter numbers.

Bud, i never said, "all".  You just did. On average, I figure most are well over $100K in gross income to be able to spend $5 or $6K every season on football tickets and weekends at 4 to 6 games in Fayetteville. I think the individual season ticket holders for U of A football games who have to spend the night in Fayetteville for game weekends and who have less than $100K in gross incomes is a very small percentage. $60K gross income family cannot spend 10% of gross income on season tickets and football weekends. College football has been catering to a small group of wealthy fans and to corporations for a long time now.

[PorkRyan]

Anyway, 3.7% isn't the end of the story, we've averaged selling 98% of our club seats since 2006? The NEZ will have food and non-alcoholic beverages built into their ticket prices, they may have to lower or change the SEZ after that.

Will all seats have the food/beverage built in and will there be a redzone type option for cheaper seats?  I'm curious about the breakdown of seating. Suites should be an easy sell.  Redzone seats also seem like an automatic sell out.  Do you know how many new club seats are being created?

[HognotinMemphis]

Funny. But probably not funny to those who would like to have season tickets but know they will never be able to afford them. There is always TV of course.

[LZH]

The bean counters had this figured out long before they turned dirt on the expansion. This was set up to be filled quickly. Short of another harleygate issue they will be full.

People that are going to spend that kind of money are going to be there regardless of who the coach is.

My family used to have 11 tickets for Little Rock games, but I was the only one that had tickets in Fayetteville, too. I don't remember what I paid for those four indoor seats in the SEZ, but it was worth it....I hate cold weather.

[ricepig]

Funny. But probably not funny to those who would like to have season tickets but know they will never be able to afford them. There is always TV of course.

Season tickets start at $250 each, so I don't think it takes $100,000 of income to support that.

[ricepig]

Will all seats have the food/beverage built in and will there be a redzone type option for cheaper seats?  I'm curious about the breakdown of seating. Suites should be an easy sell.  Redzone seats also seem like an automatic sell out.  Do you know how many new club seats are being created?

2221 in club level seating in the NEZ, 1160 in the lower, and 1061 in the upper level. 352 in Loge level seating, 80 at field level, and 272 at mid level.

[ricepig]

Ft Smith math, thank you.  And always remember to multiply by 100 to get the %.

I was reading my number as 3.7% of 1, lol. I think they will sell the vast majority of the club level seats this year, it may just a little longer. I know when they first had them listed I thought about getting the front row EOC seats around the 40 yard line. I was going to get them for my son working in Chicago for he and his gf. After talking with him a couple of days later, they were a already gone. I'm going to get him a pair in the SOC. He'll use them for some games, and I'll try to get what I can for the other games.

[hog.goblin]

Would you consider a .03-.04% drop in sales, with 3 months before first use, a disaster, as some have decried?

statistically insignificant

[hog.goblin]

Pork, get off that Greenwood math, lol. There are 149 empty seats, divide that by the 3960 seats in the SOC. That equals .037, so your call for disaster is way too soon. Also, they've never sold out every seat in the SOC, there were 10 or so last year, all singles spread out.

There had been 1 seat beside me empty for about 10 years.  after BP was canned the one next to it opened up.  I tried to buy just the 1 but they made me buy both or none, so I took both.  I figure that's probably typical vacancy in each section. 

It was quite full every game the first few seasons.  I think there has been some drop off (meaning some don't renew and there isn't quite 100% replacement) with each major event (Nutt firing, Answer the call, BP firing, and Answer the call 2.0 (not sure it had a name).  I'm not sure entering this season could be considered a major event.

If I look at the 3 rows below me and 1 row behind me, for my entire section, we've had complete turnover in season ticket holders.  I got to know most of the people during the Nutt years.  Many of those left when he was fired, and many of the replacements left after BP was fired.  I'm just now starting to get to know some now as they've come back slowly during the BB years (much more inconsistent attendance and turnover).

I'm not suggesting anything about the coaches, just what I've seen in my section.  I'm sure cable has had impact in combination with coaching changes and price increases.

[ricepig]

There had been 1 seat beside me empty for about 10 years.  after BP was canned the one next to it opened up.  I tried to buy just the 1 but they made me buy both or none, so I took both.  I figure that's probably typical vacancy in each section. 

It was quite full every game the first few seasons.  I think there has been some drop off (meaning some don't renew and there isn't quite 100% replacement) with each major event (Nutt firing, Answer the call, BP firing, and Answer the call 2.0 (not sure it had a name).  I'm not sure entering this season could be considered a major event.

If I look at the 3 rows below me and 1 row behind me, for my entire section, we've had complete turnover in season ticket holders.  I got to know most of the people during the Nutt years.  Many of those left when he was fired, and many of the replacements left after BP was fired.  I'm just now starting to get to know some now as they've come back slowly during the BB years (much more inconsistent attendance and turnover).

I'm not suggesting anything about the coaches, just what I've seen in my section.  I'm sure cable has had impact in combination with coaching changes and price increases.

Same with mine, I'm sure the row behind me is all owned by a vendor as there's different people for almost every game. If it's an early start, hot, rainy, or terrible opponent, it's usually 1/3 full at best. I wish the seats were cheaper, but I doubt we see a decrease in price anytime soon, haha.

[hog.goblin]

Bud, i never said, "all".  You just did. On average, I figure most are well over $100K in gross income to be able to spend $5 or $6K every season on football tickets and weekends at 4 to 6 games in Fayetteville. I think the individual season ticket holders for U of A football games who have to spend the night in Fayetteville for game weekends and who have less than $100K in gross incomes is a very small percentage. $60K gross income family cannot spend 10% of gross income on season tickets and football weekends. College football has been catering to a small group of wealthy fans and to corporations for a long time now.

One thing I've noticed about my section of the SOC, in the beginning most of the folks were from Little Rock or east Arkansas, while most of the folks I've gotten to know over the last 6 years or so are in NWA.  That means no hotel costs.  That certainly lightens the load.

[HognotinMemphis]

Season tickets start at $250 each, so I don't think it takes $100,000 of income to support that.

You are right about that. For whatever reason, you are picking other facts rather than responding to my fact set. I was responding to the original poster who said he had 4 tickets in South outdoor club seats. If you want to have another discussion regarding another fact set, such as the season ticket you can buy for $250 per season, go ahead and start it.

Again, he said it was about $4K per season to have those 4 season tickets. If he has to travel to Fayetteville for the weekend to attend games, I know it would cost another $400 to $500 per weekend. If he attends 4 of the 6 games, that is another $2K. Total is $6K. Gross income to get $6K is around $10K. You would have to make at least $100K to be able to spend 10% of your GROSS income on football tickets and even 10% is a very high percentage to spend on 1 activity per year.

[ricepig]

You are right about that. For whatever reason, you are picking other facts rather than responding to my fact set. I was responding to the original poster who said he had 4 tickets in South outdoor club seats. If you want to have another discussion regarding another fact set, such as the season ticket you can buy for $250 per season, go ahead and start it.

Again, he said it was about $4K per season to have those 4 season tickets. If he has to travel to Fayetteville for the weekend to attend games, I know it would cost another $400 to $500 per weekend. If he attends 4 of the 6 games, that is another $2K. Total is $6K. Gross income to get $6K is around $10K. You would have to make at least $100K to be able to spend 10% of your GROSS income on football tickets and even 10% is a very high percentage to spend on 1 activity per year.

No you don't, but go ahead and paint it that way. You assume everyone is spending two nights in Fayetteville, I'd venture to say the vast majority don't. I travel from Jonesboro and spend one night on most occasions, if I wanted to see the kids a little more I'd spend two. I've been in business for 35 years, I've never paid 40% in taxes, hog.goblin wouldn't have a job if he was allowing that.

[hog.goblin]

I've been in business for 35 years, I've never paid 40% in taxes, hog.goblin wouldn't have a job if he was allowing that.

Especially on $100K of income...family of 4 on that income is likely in a 15% bracket (20% with Arkansas included).

[Porked Tongue]

Hell, what a stupid conversation tangent started by HiM.

About 80% of the time you can get tickets for half of face value(if not free) by waiting patiently outside the stadium.  You don't even have to have a hotel but you will have to use something besides and EBT card.

Sadly, those tickets don't allow you to sit wherever you want.  A true downside.   

[HognotinMemphis]

No you don't, but go ahead and paint it that way. You assume everyone is spending two nights in Fayetteville, I'd venture to say the vast majority don't. I travel from Jonesboro and spend one night on most occasions, if I wanted to see the kids a little more I'd spend two. I've been in business for 35 years, I've never paid 40% in taxes, hog.goblin wouldn't have a job if he was allowing that.

No I don't what?

I don't assume everyone is spending 2 nights in Fayetteville. I stated specifics in my comment. You are comprehending what you want to read rather than what I wrote. Tough to communicate a point to people like you via the internets.

Your net isn't about 60% of your gross? Well, I would like to know how that is given that Arkansas has a state income tax along with FICA and federal income taxes.  You must either have a line-crossing CPA or your funds do not come from earned income.

[HognotinMemphis]

Hell, what a stupid conversation tangent started by HiM.

About 80% of the time you can get tickets for half of face value(if not free) by waiting patiently outside the stadium.  You don't even have to have a hotel but you will have to use something besides and EBT card.

Sadly, those tickets don't allow you to sit wherever you want.  A true downside.   

This is the kind of stupid comment that makes me not want to be on Hogville. I never said anything about buying tickets outside the stadium. I was singularly speaking to the U of A selling SEASON tickets and those who buy them.

[Marshfieldhog]

Especially on $100K of income...family of 4 on that income is likely in a 15% bracket (20% with Arkansas included).

You are correct on Federal Income, however our government doesn't stop there.

1. Federal
2. State
3. Sales tax
4. Property tax
5. City and County Taxes
5. tax, tax, tax

You probably start getting to 40% after it's all said and done.

[hog.goblin]

You are correct on Federal Income, however our government doesn't stop there.

1. Federal
2. State
3. Sales tax
4. Property tax
5. City and County Taxes
5. tax, tax, tax

You probably start getting to 40% after it's all said and done.

Most people don't understand the federal tax rate much less the other income, consumption, and value based taxes.

[hobhog]

I have been able to improve my EOC seats each of last three years with no increased cost.....

[WilsonHog]

I figure around 11% of my take-home income went to Razorback football last year. I can certainly understand why some people would think I've lost my mind. That is actually one reason why I don't measure my return on investment just in terms of wins.

[hog.goblin]

I figure around 11% of my take-home income went to Razorback football last year. I can certainly understand why some people would think I've lost my mind. That is actually one reason why I don't measure my return on investment just in terms of wins.

It's simply the cost of entertainment for something you are passionate about.  Be careful on a few other choices and you'll be fine.

[Oklahawg]

This is the kind of stupid comment that makes me not want to be on Hogville. I never said anything about buying tickets outside the stadium. I was singularly speaking to the U of A selling SEASON tickets and those who buy them.

I suspect that folks will reprise Porked comment in an attempt to get you to logoff again.

[Oklahawg]

No I don't what?

I don't assume everyone is spending 2 nights in Fayetteville. I stated specifics in my comment. You are comprehending what you want to read rather than what I wrote. Tough to communicate a point to people like you via the internets.

Your net isn't about 60% of your gross? Well, I would like to know how that is given that Arkansas has a state income tax along with FICA and federal income taxes.  You must either have a line-crossing CPA or your funds do not come from earned income.

You don't assume about a hotel stay but do make a broad generalization about income levels. That I can drive, round trip, without a hotel being involved means I can attend most (if not all) every year. The hotel cost (and the extra meals associated with the longer stay) would double the cost of tickets for me and my traveling party.

Game times of 11:30am and 6/7pm cost me less than 2:30 starts because I only have one large meal involved. Give me two or three of the cheaper start times and I can afford an extra seat for the year. Likewise, turn into Bama and have 3-4 of the mid-day starts and I'll need to enjoy a few more PBJs at work this fall to counter the uptick in meal costs.

It is hard to make too many generalizations about these things.

For example, what if you let go of your current tickets but are already committed for 2018 luxury seats? There are folks like that (how many can be argued, of course).

[hogfan58]

We have 4 seats in the SOC, and drive up and back from SW Arkansas for the games. Spend 0 nights and 0 $ in Fay during gameday (except in the stadium).

[Inhogswetrust]

You don't want to spend $667/game to watch a 7 win team?  What's wrong with you?

I guess you think something was wrong with those Cub or Red Sox or Kansas State fans all those years. With good fans the record is not as important as the experience or simply being a fan and caring about the program in general. They recognize that records are measured over years and generations instead of one or two years under any one coach.   

[Inhogswetrust]

$666 per seat per game? Wow. That is similar cost to courtside seat at a NBA game. I think 2nd row courtside at Memphis Grizzlies is less than that.

i'm not sure about that close but my brother in law pays $150 per seat for four seats on row 7 right the opponents coaches and media there. Pay in advance and they give him a 10% discount. Still is over $12,000 a year plus doesn't include his initial personal seat payment and doesn't include parking in the attached parking garage. He personally only goes to about half the games and gives some away all the time to family, friends and business associates. We get to use them about 5 to 10 games a year.

[Inhogswetrust]

People spend their discretionary for various extra curricular activities, everyone has their own situation. I had employees that worked for me that would spend $5000+ on deer hunting leases and every little extra gimmick. There's a lot more disposable income, especially in NWA, than you realize.

Exactly. I had an employee once that would spend ALL of his disposable income on guns. Some of which he would not shoot as often as a team plays in a football game. 

[Inhogswetrust]

I've got a strong gut feeling the direction will be down long before they ever go up

The older you get the more things stay down before going up...............................

[ricepig]

You are correct on Federal Income, however our government doesn't stop there.

1. Federal
2. State
3. Sales tax
4. Property tax
5. City and County Taxes
5. tax, tax, tax

You probably start getting to 40% after it's all said and done.

State tax, property tax, and such are deductible on your federal tax.

[ricepig]

No I don't what?

I don't assume everyone is spending 2 nights in Fayetteville. I stated specifics in my comment. You are comprehending what you want to read rather than what I wrote. Tough to communicate a point to people like you via the internets.

Your net isn't about 60% of your gross? Well, I would like to know how that is given that Arkansas has a state income tax along with FICA and federal income taxes.  You must either have a line-crossing CPA or your funds do not come from earned income.

You obviously have never owned a business and know anything about depreciation, Section 179, income averaging, pre-paid expenses, etc......if my CPA had me paying 40%,he'd be out of a job.

[Inhogswetrust]

You obviously have never owned a business and know anything about depreciation, Section 179, income averaging, pre-paid expenses, etc......if my CPA had me paying 40%,he'd be out of a job.

I'm married to a CPA and I never pay..........................oh wait you mean taxes................nevermind.

[Porked Tongue]

This is the kind of stupid comment that makes me not want to be on Hogville. I never said anything about buying tickets outside the stadium. I was singularly speaking to the U of A selling SEASON tickets and those who buy them.

I'll try to post more often.

[PonderinHog]

I suspect that folks will reprise Porked comment in an attempt to get you to logoff again.

I'll try to post more often.

Haterz

[mightybulldogs12]

I think they have overpriced the tickets for an average product on the field! I pay 550 per ticket with donation x 4! If we have another collapse like last season I will serious have to consider investing my time and money else where.

[Inhogswetrust]

I think they have overpriced the tickets for an average product on the field! I pay 550 per ticket with donation x 4! If we have another collapse like last season I will serious have to consider investing my time and money else where.

So maybe you can go see movies at the theatre instead or eat at a restaurant . After all you know in advice if it will be a good or not................no wait nevermind since just like the outcome of a game you don't know in advance.

[Wildhog]

So maybe you can go see movies at the theatre instead or eat at a restaurant . After all you know in advice if it will be a good or not................no wait nevermind since just like the outcome of a game you don't know in advance.

I usually don't go see a movie until reviews are out.

[donk]

I sit on the 40-50 yd line on the EOC and after next year I get booted. I donate about 10K per year and have for a while.  This will be my last year.  Not because of the coach or product on the field or anything else.  I am simply going to start watching on TV.  I love to watch college football and miss many good games on home dates. 

I like where the program is going.  If we go 0-12 I would still be a fan.  How much we win or lose does not affect the reasons I would or wouldn't go to a game.  I have been to probably 90% of the in state games since 1980.

Don't get me wrong I would much rather win.

[bythelake]

Thanks Donk,  props to you for all you have done.  Excellent.explanation of what what a true fan is. 

[McKdaddy]

I'll try to post more often.

[ricepig]

I sit on the 40-50 yd line on the EOC and after next year I get booted. I donate about 10K per year and have for a while.  This will be my last year.  Not because of the coach or product on the field or anything else.  I am simply going to start watching on TV.  I love to watch college football and miss many good games on home dates. 

I like where the program is going.  If we go 0-12 I would still be a fan.  How much we win or lose does not affect the reasons I would or wouldn't go to a game.  I have been to probably 90% of the in state games since 1980.

Don't get me wrong I would much rather win.

Question, are you still going to contribute to the RF, or just getting out completely? I understand either way, or if you choose not to answer.

[gchamblee]

I sit on the 40-50 yd line on the EOC and after next year I get booted. I donate about 10K per year and have for a while.  This will be my last year.  Not because of the coach or product on the field or anything else.  I am simply going to start watching on TV.  I love to watch college football and miss many good games on home dates. 

I like where the program is going.  If we go 0-12 I would still be a fan.  How much we win or lose does not affect the reasons I would or wouldn't go to a game.  I have been to probably 90% of the in state games since 1980.

Don't get me wrong I would much rather win.

A real fan.

[Inhogswetrust]

I remember when some thought it was crazy when they added the east upper deck and SEZ. They questioned the demand level at the time..................One doesn't expand for only one years demand and this expansion is not that big in terms of a large increase in football game seating.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Corporate  immigration will take care of the problem, don't worry just kick back in your lazy chair and join me watching on your big screen TV.  The days of the common Razorback fan going to games are over.  Matter of fact the days of the historical "common Razorback Fan" is over.  According to the elite on Hogville people like me aren't real fans anymore.

[GuvHog]

I sit on the 40-50 yd line on the EOC and after next year I get booted. I donate about 10K per year and have for a while.  This will be my last year.  Not because of the coach or product on the field or anything else.  I am simply going to start watching on TV.  I love to watch college football and miss many good games on home dates. 

I like where the program is going.  If we go 0-12 I would still be a fan.  How much we win or lose does not affect the reasons I would or wouldn't go to a game.  I have been to probably 90% of the in state games since 1980.

Don't get me wrong I would much rather win.

I was a regular at the games in DWRRS from 1999 through 2012. I had to give up the trips for several reasons. One being my mother had Dementia and I became her primary care giver. There were also financial problems. I miss the trips and being at the games but I still watch the Hogs play on TV. It really hurt watching a proud football program that finished as high as #5 in the nation in 2011 fall completely apart but I still faithfully watch the Hogs play and keep hoping that Bret will get things turned around.

[Piggfoot]

I sit on the 40-50 yd line on the EOC and after next year I get booted. I donate about 10K per year and have for a while.  This will be my last year.  Not because of the coach or product on the field or anything else.  I am simply going to start watching on TV.  I love to watch college football and miss many good games on home dates. 

I like where the program is going.  If we go 0-12 I would still be a fan.  How much we win or lose does not affect the reasons I would or wouldn't go to a game.  I have been to probably 90% of the in state games since 1980.

Don't get me wrong I would much rather win.

I'm 7 years ahead of you.

[Tyro3]

I have been donating since 1960 and still do,  seats at the 50 yard line, but my old body doesn't do game day as well as it did, so my kids are the ones that use the tickets, so one family at a time gets to attend, and I watch from home, ( bathroom breaks are a lot easier ) still a fan and am happy with CBB, I think he will get it done soon.

[WilsonHog]

Both of my children, who also enjoy going to the games, are recently married. They certainly can't afford the contribution and season tickets at this point in their lives, but my wife and I are blessed to be able to. I hope to have grandchildren in the not too distant future, and I want them to grow up going to Razorback football games like my children did. For me, it's a family thing, a matter of tradition. Winning and losing has zero to do with it.

[Oklahawg]

Both of my children, who also enjoy going to the games, are recently married. They certainly can't afford the contribution and season tickets at this point in their lives, but my wife and I are blessed to be able to. I hope to have grandchildren in the not too distant future, and I want them to grow up going to Razorback football games like my children did. For me, it's a family thing, a matter of tradition. Winning and losing has zero to do with it.

Amen, brother Wilson.

[bphi11ips]

Amen, brother Wilson.

My grandfather is the reason I'm a Razorbacks fan.