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Jeff Long is emphatic: Arkansas coach Bret Bielema isn’t on the hot seat

Started by MuskogeeHogFan, June 03, 2017, 06:16:25 am

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Poker_hog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 01:36:56 pm
We have (perhaps) historic levels of depth at most positions. 1 injury away from being 4-8? Only at QB and we aren't altogether certain if that is true or not, but most likely at QB than any other position. I think you are without cause, taking a "glass half-empty" position on this as a result of none of us knowing for certain what this team will produce next season. I believe that they are capable of winning 9, maybe more, all depends.

If AA, Whaley, or greenlaw are injured I don't see us winning 6 games. If 2 of those are injured I see us winning 4 games or so.  You don't see that with "healthy programs".  I don't see historic depth.  The lb and wr position both have 1 proven sec level talent.  We've got some guys there that have potential but no proven experience.

I am probably a little pessimistic but it's not without cause.  Past performance is the best predictor of future performance.
Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: ricepig on June 03, 2017, 01:59:49 pm
We did vastly improve on paper, our secondary/DB recruiting last year. We still need more depth along the d-line, and vast improvement at LB recruiting. We do have a 4* LB committed, and need a couple more.

agree.  The point being we need to be more complete every single class.  We haven't been consistent for defense and offensive line recruiting.  The 2018 class, on paper, will tell us a lot.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

 

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Poker_hog on June 03, 2017, 02:05:38 pm
If AA, Whaley, or greenlaw are injured I don't see us winning 6 games. If 2 of those are injured I see us winning 4 games or so.  You don't see that with "healthy programs".  I don't see historic depth.  The lb and wr position both have 1 proven sec level talent.  We've got some guys there that have potential but no proven experience.

I am probably a little pessimistic but it's not without cause.  Past performance is the best predictor of future performance.

I think it is too early to tell. We may not have experienced depth at RB or WR but I think we have SEC potential level depth, though that still has to be proven in action. Same on defense. QB is really the only questionable call in terms of depth to me simply because we know what "experience" can either add to or take away from a QB.
Go Hogs Go!

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 01:56:20 pm
I didn't have a problem at all with Bielema's original contract but the 15 Million Dollar buyout added after his second season as Hog HC was ridiculous.

I'll claim ignorance on the timing of the particular buyout amounts.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Poker_hog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 02:10:35 pm
I think it is too early to tell. We may not have experienced depth at RB or WR but I think we have SEC potential level depth, though that still has to be proven in action. Same on defense. QB is really the only questionable call in terms of depth to me simply because we know what "experience" can either add to or take away from a QB.

You can't say we have historic depth and that it's too early to tell how deep we are. It's one or the other.  I tend to think it's the later.
Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 01:36:56 pm
We have (perhaps) historic levels of depth at most positions. 1 injury away from being 4-8? Only at QB and we aren't altogether certain if that is true or not, but most likely at QB than any other position. I think you are without cause, taking a "glass half-empty" position on this as a result of none of us knowing for certain what this team will produce next season. I believe that they are capable of winning 9, maybe more, all depends.

This is why I'm predicting a 9-3 regular season record for The Hogs this year. This is CBB's 5th season, all of the players on the team are his recruits, all of the players he inherited on arrival are gone, so the "he inherited a dumpster fire" excuse just won't fly any more. The talent and experience is there to win at least 9 regular season games.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Poker_hog on June 03, 2017, 02:19:56 pm
You can't say we have historic depth and that it's too early to tell how deep we are. It's one or the other.  I tend to think it's the later.

We have historic depth in many positions. Having historic depth (like 18 LB's) is one thing. How that depth performs is quite another. So yes, I can say it is too early to tell.
Go Hogs Go!

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 02:24:37 pm
We have historic depth in many positions. Having historic depth (like 18 LB's) is one thing. How that depth performs is quite another. So yes, I can say it is too early to tell.

Numbers and talent aren't the same thing...not that you're saying that.  So far, the performance on the defensive side of the field hasn't suggested talented depth.  Bodies, maybe, but talent, not so far.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

sickboy

Quote from: Poker_hog on June 03, 2017, 02:05:38 pm
If AA, Whaley, or greenlaw are injured I don't see us winning 6 games. If 2 of those are injured I see us winning 4 games or so.  You don't see that with "healthy programs".  I don't see historic depth.  The lb and wr position both have 1 proven sec level talent.  We've got some guys there that have potential but no proven experience.

I am probably a little pessimistic but it's not without cause.  Past performance is the best predictor of future performance.

You most certainly do see that with healthy programs. Losing your best players, unless your one of the elite programs out there, is going to potentially put you in a bind. Hell, most elite programs would be in a bind after losing their starting QB. Maybe you think healthy is elite. To me, healthy is a program that's top 25 ready with very little off the field distractions or arrests and capable of going to a bowl game every year. That's a healthy program.

No program at Arkansas' level (top 25-20) has proven SEC talent sitting at 2 and 3 deep on the depth chart at every position. Programs like Arkansas have to develop players over time. That's what depth is for Arkansas. So, as always, it's about seeing those guys we've been developing step up after losing another haul of seniors. It seems to me, minus LB, which has been a trouble spot, we've managed to build sold developmental depth at every position. Even WR. 

Depth at Alabama is totally different. Depth there is having a gun rack full of AR-15s. There are two or three programs in the country that have that depth.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on June 03, 2017, 02:28:09 pm
Numbers and talent aren't the same thing...not that you're saying that.  So far, the performance on the defensive side of the field hasn't suggested talented depth.  Bodies, maybe, but talent, not so far.

You know, maybe I am a "Sucker" but I just have a feeling (and tremendous hope as well) that under Paul Rhoads we are going to see something vastly different. From everything that I have read (and hopefully I can be more informed in my opinion after being around him this summer) he really relates to the players and the players, to him. Additionally, from all that I have read and heard, he is a detail oriented guy who was frustrated by what he saw going on last season on the defense.

I believe we are going to see a different defense on the field this year. They may not be a bunch of all stars but what I do expect is to see is absolute hustle from the snap to the whistle on every play, gang tackling and a far more aggressive scheme up front where the front seven is enabled to create more havoc instead of laying back and trying to react. We will give up some big plays, but I also believe that we will stop some potential big plays in the backfield before they have the chance to develop. That's nothing but good either for the run defense or the pass defense.
Go Hogs Go!

jkstock04

Quote from: Poker_hog on June 03, 2017, 02:19:56 pm
You can't say we have historic depth and that it's too early to tell how deep we are. It's one or the other.  I tend to think it's the later.
I've been reading and hearing for 2 years now that this is the deepest the Hogs have been in modern times. Yet, expectations are for 6-8 wins. This makes ZERO sense.

In the past when we have had good seasons we must've just been really lucky, and throughout the Bielema era we must just be freakishly unlucky.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

jcbville

Quote from: rhames on June 03, 2017, 08:06:56 am
Saying what a good AD would say.


We all know Bret has 2 years to get the program where he wants it. I hope he succeeds because I don't have the patience for another coach to come in and rebuild

Yeah I don't get the "I want them to fail" crowd at all. Anyone who's been paying attention knows they were playing for the long game and if it doesn't work he'll be out. But I for one hope he succeeds. And the foundation that's being laid is a good one.

Poker_hog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 02:24:37 pm
We have historic depth in many positions. Having historic depth (like 18 LB's) is one thing. How that depth performs is quite another. So yes, I can say it is too early to tell.

Ok.  I miss understood you.  I thought when you said historic depth you meant not much drop off between the starters and backups.  I have no idea how well this roster is balanced when compared to previous rosters.
Sometimes wrong, but never in doubt

 

Deep Shoat

Quote from: jkstock04 on June 03, 2017, 02:41:20 pm
I've been reading and hearing for 2 years now that this is the deepest the Hogs have been in modern times. Yet, expectations are for 6-8 wins. This makes ZERO sense.

In the past when we have had good seasons we must've just been really lucky, and throughout the Bielema era we must just be freakishly unlucky.
Two things: you take the posting of a few posters and turn it into "what everyone is sayin".  MOST reasonable Hog fans have been saying, "I like Bielema's recruiting.  But we won't be fixed, depth wise, until year 5 or 6."

And two: we should win 8+ this year.  The depth is there, finally.  If we don't, barring significant injury to AA or Whaley, and I'll be questioning CBB's plan.
All Gas, No Brakes!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Poker_hog on June 03, 2017, 02:48:29 pm
Ok.  I miss understood you.  I thought when you said historic depth you meant not much drop off between the starters and backups.  I have no idea how well this roster is balanced when compared to previous rosters.

All I am saying is that we have a lot more players (in terms of depth at various positions) than we have seen in the past. Not as good as we might like at all positions, but overall, it is improved which should (typically) increase the odds that someone in those groups turns out to be pretty good.

18 DB's, 18 LB's, shorter on interior D-Linemen with 8 DE's but only 3 NT's. There is a concern.

6 QB's, 3 FB's, only 4 scholarship RB's (concern), but 8 TE's, 16 WR's and 20 O-Linemen.

It isn't perfect, but it isn't bad and may be the best I have seen in quite a while.
Go Hogs Go!

HiggiePiggy

Quote from: jkstock04 on June 03, 2017, 02:41:20 pm
I've been reading and hearing for 2 years now that this is the deepest the Hogs have been in modern times. Yet, expectations are for 6-8 wins. This makes ZERO sense.

In the past when we have had good seasons we must've just been really lucky, and throughout the Bielema era we must just be freakishly unlucky.

Couple more years and this will be the majority expectation on a yearly basis.
If a man speaks and no woman is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: jkstock04 on June 03, 2017, 02:41:20 pm
I've been reading and hearing for 2 years now that this is the deepest the Hogs have been in modern times. Yet, expectations are for 6-8 wins. This makes ZERO sense.

In the past when we have had good seasons we must've just been really lucky, and throughout the Bielema era we must just be freakishly unlucky.

"Deep", "Deep and experienced" and "Deep and SEC Level and experienced" are three different things and we have been fighting this battle for years. We have significant depth in a lot of positions, only time will give them "experience" and only time will prove if they are "SEC level and experienced". Being able to have depth is a step in the right direction.
Go Hogs Go!

DLUXHOG

"Don't go in anyplace you'd be ashamed to die in..."
(you might get this someday)

hamARchy in the USA

The difference in Bielema's performance at Wisconsin and at Arkansas may be largely a result of the difference in quality of ADs.  Perhaps Bielema should demand Long's resignation.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: hamARchy in the USA on June 03, 2017, 04:34:28 pm
The difference in Bielema's performance at Wisconsin and at Arkansas may be largely a result of the difference in quality of ADs.  Perhaps Bielema should demand Long's resignation.

Quality of schedule and condition of the program when he took over.  Both are vastly different between UA and UW.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

DLUXHOG

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on June 03, 2017, 04:41:45 pm
Quality of schedule and condition of the program when he took over.  Both are vastly different between UA and UW.

good, valid reasons.   NO ONE should have an argument with this reasoning.............
"Don't go in anyplace you'd be ashamed to die in..."
(you might get this someday)

hamARchy in the USA

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on June 03, 2017, 04:41:45 pm
Quality of schedule and condition of the program when he took over.  Both are vastly different between UA and UW.

So is the across the board level of success of each AD.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: hamARchy in the USA on June 03, 2017, 04:47:47 pm
So is the across the board level of success of each AD.

Yes, context doesn't matter.  Everything is apples to apples. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hamARchy in the USA on June 03, 2017, 04:34:28 pm
The difference in Bielema's performance at Wisconsin and at Arkansas may be largely a result of the difference in quality of ADs.  Perhaps Bielema should demand Long's resignation.

I'm sure you dedicated a lot of thought and analysis to that comment before you made it.
Go Hogs Go!

 

hamARchy in the USA

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 04:54:52 pm
I'm sure you dedicated a lot of thought and analysis to that comment before you made it.

I was only half joking.   :)

Alvarez, like Broyles was, is a former successful football coach who demanded a lot out of his players.  Likewise, he demands a lot out of the coaches he hires.  His programs keep on trucking despite coaching changes.  He embodies the spirit of the Badger athletic program.  Coaches are pushed by his drive. 

Long, by contrast, has never been a successful head coach.  Or a successful anything.  He was saved from himself when his first choice for football coach Tommy Bowden was rejected.  He subsequently chose John L Smith when the interim hire was left in his hands.  Bielema appears to be capable but does he have the focus and drive that he had under an AD who expected nothing less than success ?   What were the expectations of Alvarez vs the expectations of Long ?   Long promotes academic success as if his title was Academic Director.   I suppose that's about all he has to lean on.

Same deal with the basketball programs.  Wisconsin continues to compete near the top of its conference as well as nationally.  Six years into what should have taken three or maybe four years Long's choice for basketball coach maintains a program that is not competitive near the top of its weak conference.   Only the luck of the conference scheduling imbalance has somewhat papered over the weakness of the program.

In short, the success of any program is a function of the quality of its leadership.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hamARchy in the USA on June 03, 2017, 05:31:39 pm
I was only half joking.   :)

Alvarez, like Broyles was, is a former successful football coach who demanded a lot out of his players.  Likewise, he demands a lot out of the coaches he hires.  His programs keep on trucking despite coaching changes.  He embodies the spirit of the Badger athletic program.  Coaches are pushed by his drive. 

Long, by contrast, has never been a successful head coach.  Or a successful anything.  He was saved from himself when his first choice for football coach Tommy Bowden was rejected.  He subsequently chose John L Smith when the interim hire was left in his hands.  Bielema appears to be capable but does he have the focus and drive that he had under an AD who expected nothing less than success ?   What were the expectations of Alvarez vs the expectations of Long ?   Long promotes academic success as if his title was Academic Director.   I suppose that's about all he has to lean on.

Same deal with the basketball programs.  Wisconsin continues to compete near the top of its conference as well as nationally.  Six years into what should have taken three or maybe four years Long's choice for basketball coach maintains a program that is not competitive near the top of its weak conference.   Only the luck of the conference scheduling imbalance has somewhat papered over the weakness of the program.

In short, the success of any program is a function of the quality of its leadership.

So basically, you weren't joking.

Problem is, Long is a very successful and very well respected A.D. across the nation, despite your opinion of him. Now does that merely equate to wins? No. There is a lot more to being an AD these days (it isn't like when JFB was an AD) and it is all about the overall financial standing and educational standing of the program and in those terms, Jeff Long is very respected.
Go Hogs Go!

longtimeHogfan

Uh-oh...the dreaded vote of confidence.  Days are numbered now... ;)
I don't like to plan my day because then the word premeditated comes into the conversation.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: longtimeHogfan on June 03, 2017, 05:42:43 pm
Uh-oh...the dreaded vote of confidence.  Days are numbered now... ;)

This wasn't your normal "statement of confidence" that you think that it is. You need to read more closely. Now that may change in 2017 should Bielema win fewer than 8 in the regular season this year, but he is for all appearances, "all in" for Bielema because he sees more things than just wins as being important to Arkansas as long as he is the Athletic Director. The question is, does he begin to feel more pressure from the big money guys to make a change if Bielema can't get above 8 wins in a season?
Go Hogs Go!

hamARchy in the USA

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 05:36:58 pm
So basically, you weren't joking.

Problem is, Long is a very successful and very well respected A.D. across the nation, despite your opinion of him. Now does that merely equate to wins? No. There is a lot more to being an AD these days (it isn't like when JFB was an AD) and it is all about the overall financial standing and educational standing of the program and in those terms, Jeff Long is very respected.

Very successful across the nation ?   :-\   Very well respected, perhaps, but not for anything other than firing Petrino, who many people around the country absolutely hated.  Before that no one even knew who Long was.  Long made his name on the back of Petrino's downfall.

The rest is simply an attempt at rationalizing a guy who isn't cut out for the job.  The Razorback athletic program became self supporting under JFB.  Much of today's financial standing is a result of Broyles' visionary move to the SEC.  Perhaps there's some marginal difference in the quality of student athletes but more likely, given Long's history of self promotion, it's little more than a façade that fits today's APR climate.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hamARchy in the USA on June 03, 2017, 06:18:48 pm
Very successful across the nation ?   :-\   Very well respected, perhaps, but not for anything other than firing Petrino, who many people around the country absolutely hated.  Before that no one even knew who Long was.  Long made his name on the back of Petrino's downfall.

The rest is simply an attempt at rationalizing a guy who isn't cut out for the job.  The Razorback athletic program became self supporting under JFB.  Much of today's financial standing is a result of Broyles' visionary move to the SEC.  Perhaps there's some marginal difference in the quality of student athletes but more likely, given Long's history of self promotion, it's little more than a façade that fits today's APR climate.

Yeah well, you need to have a better understanding. The first move was that of Broyle's getting out of the SWC. Yes, visionary in terms of future money, stability and the future.

Long has built on that. If you can't see that, well, I don't know what to say. But AD's these days are more Business Manager's than they are like traditional AD's from the old days like Frank was and they are charged with more responsibilities than AD's were in the past. Moving up to an AD or being an AD while as a HC used to be a softer position. It isn't that way anymore. It is a much bigger deal now with greater responsibilities.
Go Hogs Go!

Bubba's Bruisers

If you don't like what Long is doing as AD, then you would have to have hated Broyles as AD.  Broyles was a masterful AD, but not much on Improving the FB program.  The FB program began a steady decline not long after he became AD.  I think for reasons largely out of his control.  Reasons that caused him to jump off the HC'ing ship at juuuuust the right time...before his legendary HC'ing status could be adversely impacted.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

GuvHog

Quote from: hamARchy in the USA on June 03, 2017, 05:31:39 pm
I was only half joking.   :)

Alvarez, like Broyles was, is a former successful football coach who demanded a lot out of his players.  Likewise, he demands a lot out of the coaches he hires.  His programs keep on trucking despite coaching changes.  He embodies the spirit of the Badger athletic program.  Coaches are pushed by his drive. 

Long, by contrast, has never been a successful head coach.  Or a successful anything.  He was saved from himself when his first choice for football coach Tommy Bowden was rejected.  He subsequently chose John L Smith when the interim hire was left in his hands.  Bielema appears to be capable but does he have the focus and drive that he had under an AD who expected nothing less than success ?   What were the expectations of Alvarez vs the expectations of Long ?   Long promotes academic success as if his title was Academic Director.   I suppose that's about all he has to lean on.

Same deal with the basketball programs.  Wisconsin continues to compete near the top of its conference as well as nationally.  Six years into what should have taken three or maybe four years Long's choice for basketball coach maintains a program that is not competitive near the top of its weak conference.   Only the luck of the conference scheduling imbalance has somewhat papered over the weakness of the program.

In short, the success of any program is a function of the quality of its leadership.

To put it bluntly, Long is a great administrator but he's terrible at hiring head coaches. It's telling that his best 2 hires at Arkansas were basically forced on him.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GuvHog

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on June 03, 2017, 06:47:41 pm
If you don't like what Long is doing as AD, then you would have to have hated Broyles as AD.  Broyles was a masterful AD, but not much on Improving the FB program.  The FB program began a steady decline not long after he became AD.  I think for reasons largely out of his control.  Reasons that caused him to jump off the HC'ing ship at juuuuust the right time...before his legendary HC'ing status could be adversely impacted.


BS. Frank Broyles was far better at hiring coaches than Long ever will be.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 06:55:03 pm
BS. Frank Broyles was far better at hiring coaches than Long ever will be.

For the most part, FB program was mediocre, dude, under JFB's charge.  His best hire was easily Holtz.  Hatfield was good.  Not much after that.  I'd say BP and BB hired by Long at least match those 2. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 06:53:12 pm
To put it bluntly, Long is a great administrator but he's terrible at hiring head coaches. It's telling that his best 2 hires at Arkansas were basically forced on him.

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 06:55:03 pm
BS. Frank Broyles was far better at hiring coaches than Long ever will be.

Way to go for the low hanging fruit without substantial analysis. Your narrative fits your take, but that doens't make it accurate.
Go Hogs Go!

GuvHog

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on June 03, 2017, 07:00:22 pm
For the most part, FB program was mediocre, dude, under JFB's charge.  His best hire was easily Holtz.  Hatfield was good.  Not much after that.  I'd say BP and BB hired by Long at least match those 2. 

He also was responsible for hiring Eddie Sutton and Nolan Richardson, don't forget that. His ability to hire coaches ended with Houston Nutt's hiring when John White took away his power to hire and gave it to a committee.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 07:02:47 pm
Way to go for the low hanging fruit without substantial analysis. Your narrative fits your take, but that doens't make it accurate.

It is indeed accurate. He was under serious pressure from some BOT members and Big money boosters to hire Petrino and he caved in to the pressure. He never wanted Petrino.

Jeff Long was force fed Mike Anderson like a baby in a high chair. He had no choice BUT to hire him.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 07:06:40 pm
He also was responsible for hiring Eddie Sutton and Nolan Richardson, don't forget that. His ability to hire coaches ended with Houston Nutt's hiring by committee when John White took away his power to hire and gave it to a committee.

I was talking about football, but I'll play.  Agree on Sutton and Richardson.  Who hired Heath and Pelphery?  And I ask as someone who was very disappointed in Long's hiring of MA. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

jvanhorn

If winning games is THE most important thing move to the Big 12 or Big 10.  If making MONEY is the most important thing stay in the SEC.  Which way do you think we will go, lol.  You need to get realistic about the situation here.  A team that wins more than it loses and goes to bowl games will be counted as a success.  The same is true of Anderson.  As long as he wins a good amount more than he loses and makes it to the big dance.  That will be counted a success.  The only exception to that is Dave Van Horn and that is because he is the best coach on campus, and maybe the best coach ever.  He has built a monster that he has to feed.  You could see how mad he was about last season and he wasn't going to that happen again--and here we are in the regionals.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 07:10:05 pm
It is indeed accurate. He was under serious pressure from some BOT members and Big money boosters to hire Petrino and he caved in to the pressure. He never wanted Petrino.

Jeff Long was force fed Mike Anderson like a baby in a high chair. He had no choice BUT to hire him.

If he resisted hiring MA, then I'd say that shows a high level of competence.  MA might finally surprise, but I'm not holding my breath.  Ready to be wrong, though.

As far as BP, the rumors are all over the place.  I think it's more likely that BP simply fell into Long's lap at the last minute, and he took the chance given our options were very limited in general. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 07:10:05 pm
It is indeed accurate. He was under serious pressure from some BOT members and Big money boosters to hire Petrino and he caved in to the pressure. He never wanted Petrino.

Jeff Long was force fed Mike Anderson like a baby in a high chair. He had no choice BUT to hire him.

And Frank, being the political animal that he was, would have done the same thing, though he might have had more to say about it because of his position and the respect that he was given by many. If forced, he would have caved as well if there were no other option. Long was new and when you are new to a job, you bow to pressure because you have no political capital to play with. You just made my point.
Go Hogs Go!

GuvHog

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on June 03, 2017, 07:10:13 pm
I was talking about football, but I'll play.  Agree on Sutton and Richardson.  Who hired Heath and Pelphery?  And I ask as someone who was very disappointed in Long's hiring of MA. 

You can thank John White for both Heath and Pelphrey. Had he kept his nose out of the Athletic Department and let Frank do his job, neither one would have ever coached at the U of A.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 07:18:19 pm
And Frank, being the political animal that he was, would have done the same thing, though he might have had more to say about it because of his position and the respect that he was given by many. If forced, he would have caved as well if there were no other option. Long was new and when you are new to a job, you bow to pressure because you have no political capital to play with. You just made my point.

The governor himself wouldn't have had the balls to fire JFB.  That hombre was the most powerful person in the state for a long time.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 07:21:56 pm
You can thank John White for both Heath and Pelphrey. Had he kept his nose out of the Athletic Department and let Frank do his job, neither one would have ever coached at the U of A.

So like Long, Broyles was forced to do things by his bosses or was actually removed from the process altogether?  Gasp.  Frank sat crying in a high chair too?  Who knew.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on June 03, 2017, 07:22:26 pm
The governor himself wouldn't have had the balls to fire JFB.  That hombre was the most powerful person in the state for a long time.

That doesn't at all mean that he wouldn't have caved to what was deemed to be a popular hire, late in his career. Frank didn't hang around Arkansas for so long without a acquired knowledge of self preservation. Same as with many HC's/AD's who happened to hang around for a long time prior to AD's becoming true Business Manager's
Go Hogs Go!

GuvHog

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on June 03, 2017, 07:18:19 pm
And Frank, being the political animal that he was, would have done the same thing, though he might have had more to say about it because of his position and the respect that he was given by many. If forced, he would have caved as well if there were no other option. Long was new and when you are new to a job, you bow to pressure because you have no political capital to play with. You just made my point.

Frank was never forced to make a hire, he had too much power. It was only when John White convinced just enough BOT members to back his play that Frank lost his power to hire and never got it back. John White almost destroyed the Athletic Department. Heck, John White even tried to oust Frank from the Athletic Department but the BOT wouldn't back his play.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

GuvHog

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on June 03, 2017, 07:24:41 pm
So like Long, Broyles was forced to do things by his bosses or was actually removed from the process altogether? 

The latter is correct when Heath was hired. Frank had Dana Altman hired but John White undercut him and basically ran Altman off after Frank left town. Broyles was never forced to do anything by his bosses.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 07:26:52 pm
Frank was never forced to make a hire, he had too much power. It was only when John White convinced just enough BOT members to back his play that Frank lost his power to hire and never got it back. John White almost destroyed the Athletic Department. Heck, John White even tried to oust Frank from the Athletic Department but the BOT wouldn't back his play.

So you say Frank was never compromised in his choices, and then he was. Thanks. Just what I suggested.
Go Hogs Go!

tophawg19

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 06:55:03 pm
BS. Frank Broyles was far better at hiring coaches than Long ever will be.
yeah like when he hired Jimmy Johnson over HDN ? oh wait that didn't happen. Danny Ford /Joe Kines deal was great too . And then there was the awesome Jack Crowe deal . Holtz and Harfield were decent but how would they have done in an SEC enviroment where half the conference or more is top 25 and all are around top 50 .
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: GuvHog on June 03, 2017, 07:34:21 pm
The latter is correct when Heath was hired. Frank had Dana Altman hired but John White undercut him and basically ran Altman off after Frank left town. Broyles was never forced to do anything by his bosses.

But you said he was removed from the hiring process with Pelphrey and Nutt, and I know the latter is true, so yes, Frank was forced.  How do you call it...like a crying baby in his high chair?  Or something like that.

Did White hire Jack Crow too?  Did White run off Jimmy Johnson before Frank could hire him?
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15