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Back-Up QB

Started by Exit Pursued by a Boar, August 21, 2017, 07:41:06 am

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Exit Pursued by a Boar

With ten days to go until kickoff, I thought we'd know who the back-up QB is.  If it's been announced, I haven't seen it.  Any news on this front?

EFBAB

PorkRinds


 

tampahog

not sure we have to make a decision by FAMU but hopefully by TCU.  Might use 2nd half of FAMU to further evaluate and make final decision.  I just want to see us give the #2 guys some meaningful snaps as there won't be many opportunities this year

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

Quote from: tampahog on August 21, 2017, 08:00:29 am
not sure we have to make a decision by FAMU but hopefully by TCU.  Might use 2nd half of FAMU to further evaluate and make final decision.  I just want to see us give the #2 guys some meaningful snaps as there won't be many opportunities this year
We say that every year, never happens
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

hogsanity

Quote from: tampahog on August 21, 2017, 08:00:29 am
not sure we have to make a decision by FAMU but hopefully by TCU.  Might use 2nd half of FAMU to further evaluate and make final decision.  I just want to see us give the #2 guys some meaningful snaps as there won't be many opportunities this year

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on August 21, 2017, 08:13:18 am
We say that every year, never happens

YEa just like it never happens at just about every FBS level school. The backups only play in a huge blowout where they are handing off, or if the starter gets hurt. No one is sticking their backup in for "meaningful snaps" in a game that is even just somewhat close. Why do fans seem to think this is so important yet they do not clamor for a backup to play "meaningful snaps" at safety or MILB, or any other position?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Carl Lazlo

Quote from: hogsanity on August 21, 2017, 08:32:13 am
YEa just like it never happens at just about every FBS level school. The backups only play in a huge blowout where they are handing off, or if the starter gets hurt. No one is sticking their backup in for "meaningful snaps" in a game that is even just somewhat close. Why do fans seem to think this is so important yet they do not clamor for a backup to play "meaningful snaps" at safety or MILB, or any other position?

Signed Chris Leak

hogsanity

Quote from: Carl Lazlo on August 21, 2017, 08:37:14 am
Signed Chris Leak

So you have to go back over a decade, to when a left handed, future Heisman winner, FR was put into games to be used as a battering ram. And even in all the pt he got, he only threw 33 passes. The fact remains no one is playing their backup "meaningful snaps", practice time and game time just do not allow for it.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

gchamblee

Quote from: tampahog on August 21, 2017, 08:00:29 am
not sure we have to make a decision by FAMU but hopefully by TCU.  Might use 2nd half of FAMU to further evaluate and make final decision.  I just want to see us give the #2 guys some meaningful snaps as there won't be many opportunities this year

The #2 guys get meaningful snaps in every game. They rotate in constantly in all games. The only position this doesn't happen is QB for obvious reasons.

tampahog

most other positions actually rotate through a 2 deep and most everyone else gets rep even against meaningful opponents (OL might be somewhat of an exception).  This is especially true on defense given the need to rotate DL due to fatigue and some offenses require differing defensive schemes (run stopping vs. speed linebackers, nickel backs, etc...).   Just don't want to start next year with a QB who has only thrown 3-4 passes at the collegiate level when we will be fairly well loaded at many other positions. What Tyler did against AU in 2010 is more the exception than the rule when a backup is thrown into a starting role.  While he played very well for 2 quarters, he did have 2 4th quarter picks that really hurt and losing that game cost us a trip to the SEC championship game (against a USCe team that we owned that season followed by a winnable NC match against Oregon). 

AA is proven and it makes no sense to risk injury to him and not give backup QBs some reps in games that are well in hand.  I'm afraid given our late game collapse against VaTech, CBB may have a more stringent definition of a game that is "well in hand" and not pull AA unless we are up by 35 with 2m left.     

Kevin

it only matters if aa gets hurt
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

hogsanity

Quote from: Kevin on August 21, 2017, 08:50:45 am
it only matters if aa gets hurt

it only matters anywhere if the starter gets hurt.

What some, not saying you, don't get is that to have a backup ready for "meaningful snaps" then he has to get meaningful practice time with the first team, and that takes away practice time with the 1st team by the starter. It is not nearly as simple as just pitting the backup in for a few series.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Carl Lazlo

Quote from: hogsanity on August 21, 2017, 08:44:16 am
So you have to go back over a decade, to when a left handed, future Heisman winner, FR was put into games to be used as a battering ram. And even in all the pt he got, he only threw 33 passes. The fact remains no one is playing their backup "meaningful snaps", practice time and game time just do not allow for it.

There is quite a few more examples.

dethnode

The very term "meaningful snaps" confuses me....

The term implies the snap means something, or in other words matters...

If the snap matters, then it would be assumed that the game is not a locked victory yet...

If BB took AA out and put in the backup for a meaningful snap to just get pt, then he threw an interception or lost the snap and fumble, and that mistake cost us a game that we otherwise would have won, people on here would be calling for the his head.

On the other hand, if we put the backup in just to hand the ball off and run out clock when we have the game in hand, then people complain that the snaps aren't meaningful and that we need to get the backup some true pt.

I swear if BB came out and said he was in support of oxygen, some of our fans would suffocate themselves just so they didn't have to agree with him.

 

Deep Shoat

Quote from: Carl Lazlo on August 21, 2017, 08:56:30 am
There is quite a few more examples.
Point out some of them, in the last decade.
All Gas, No Brakes!

gchamblee

Quote from: dethnode on August 21, 2017, 08:59:34 am
The very term "meaningful snaps" confuses me....

The term implies the snap means something, or in other words matters...

If the snap matters, then it would be assumed that the game is not a locked victory yet...

If BB took AA out and put in the backup for a meaningful snap to just get pt, then he threw an interception or lost the snap and fumble, and that mistake cost us a game that we otherwise would have won, people on here would be calling for the his head.

On the other hand, if we put the backup in just to hand the ball off and run out clock when we have the game in hand, then people complain that the snaps aren't meaningful and that we need to get the backup some true pt.

I swear if BB came out and said he was in support of oxygen, some of our fans would suffocate themselves just so they didn't have to agree with him.

Truth

k.c.hawg

Gruden once asked Tom Moore why Peyton's backups didn't get more reps 'Fellas, if 18 goes down we're [CENSORED], and we don't practice [CENSORED].'
Just sitting on the deck with a cold beer and a hot tequila watching the razorbacks roam.

redleg

If the backup is Kelley (which I would like to see), that would give Kelley the inside track to earning the starting job next spring. If Kelley is the next starter for the Hogs, will Storey transfer?
I think Kelley has a much bigger and better upside as far as overall talent goes. From what I have read, he's got a Ryan Mallett-type arm and physical appearance, yet does have some mobility, i.e. he's not a statue like Mallett was. Bielema wants a pro-style offense, which would be a 60/40 pass/run distribution. I strongly feel that Kelley would be better suited to run that type of offense, over Storey. Austin Allen is the starter last year and this year because he is a leader, he knows the offense, and he has talent. Storey is talented too, but Kelley would be able to take this offense to another level over the next two or three seasons.
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

Exit Pursued by a Boar

Thank you, all. It would seem the backup QB is still an open question.

As for "meaningful snaps," I would define it as snaps against another team that don't involve just handing off or taking a knee.  Given our propensity to lose relatively large leads, I would assume that we'd have to be up by quite a bit before such a snap would occur for Storey/Kelley.  If we're up 42-0 at half, maybe one comes in sometime in the 3rd quarter. If we're up by 35 late in the third, maybe then. If we're up by 24 with six-seven minutes to go, maybe then.  Regardless, the lead would have to be substantial and the defense would have stay stout, even if its 2nd-3rd teamers were out there.  Such snaps would also have to involve throwing the ball and being willing to lay even more of a hurting on the opposing team.  If you ARE up by 42 with six minutes left and you do put Storey/Kelley in, you have to be willing to go over the top. Otherwise, why bother?

EFBAB


redleg

If the team plays like they are capable of playing, the backup QB should get in 1 to 2 quarters of work vs Florida A&M, New Mexico St, and Coastal Carolina. I don't see any SEC games where the backup could play, unless Arkansas jumps all over somebody, and the Hogs have a huge lead in the fourth...possibly at home versus Missouri, or at Ole Miss, but I doubt it.
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

dethnode

Even then you run risks, say you are up 42-0 at half, and you put in a backup qb, he goes over the top to get some "meaningful reps"

Then, you have the issue of running up the score, which always looks good to your fans, but only your fans.  Also, so you go over the top, receiver goes up to make the catch and gets hit and injured and is out for the season.  I know this is a risk with rb just running out clock too, but running backs are built for that, wr are not. 

Now, you have a wr injured because you were trying to run up the score in a game you already had won.   And you can scream to the mountains that you were just trying to get some playing time for your backup, the national sports media is going to show no love, especially for Arkansas, and they are going to blast you day and night for ruining a young wr career to boost your own ego by running up a score.  And, some of our own fans who wanted the backup to get reps, will do the same thing, again back to the oxygen suffocation thing i mentioned earlier...

Hawgndaaz

If you announce #2 too early, you're going to have someone transfer out.

hoggusamoungus

Quote from: Carl Lazlo on August 21, 2017, 08:37:14 am
Signed Chris Leak

There's a difference in the back-up playing and a two QB system.  Meyer was using a two QB system.

hogsanity

Quote from: dethnode on August 21, 2017, 09:43:24 am
Even then you run risks, say you are up 42-0 at half, and you put in a backup qb, he goes over the top to get some "meaningful reps"

Then, you have the issue of running up the score, which always looks good to your fans, but only your fans.  Also, so you go over the top, receiver goes up to make the catch and gets hit and injured and is out for the season.  I know this is a risk with rb just running out clock too, but running backs are built for that, wr are not. 

Now, you have a wr injured because you were trying to run up the score in a game you already had won.   And you can scream to the mountains that you were just trying to get some playing time for your backup, the national sports media is going to show no love, especially for Arkansas, and they are going to blast you day and night for ruining a young wr career to boost your own ego by running up a score.  And, some of our own fans who wanted the backup to get reps, will do the same thing, again back to the oxygen suffocation thing i mentioned earlier...

Greg Childs against UTEP comes to mind
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

onebadrubi

Quote from: dethnode on August 21, 2017, 09:43:24 am
Even then you run risks, say you are up 42-0 at half, and you put in a backup qb, he goes over the top to get some "meaningful reps"

Then, you have the issue of running up the score, which always looks good to your fans, but only your fans.  Also, so you go over the top, receiver goes up to make the catch and gets hit and injured and is out for the season.  I know this is a risk with rb just running out clock too, but running backs are built for that, wr are not. 

Now, you have a wr injured because you were trying to run up the score in a game you already had won.   And you can scream to the mountains that you were just trying to get some playing time for your backup, the national sports media is going to show no love, especially for Arkansas, and they are going to blast you day and night for ruining a young wr career to boost your own ego by running up a score.  And, some of our own fans who wanted the backup to get reps, will do the same thing, again back to the oxygen suffocation thing i mentioned earlier...

People aren't mad when your backups are scoring.  There is only so much you can do

 

onebadrubi

Quote from: hogsanity on August 21, 2017, 09:46:34 am
Greg Childs against UTEP comes to mind

Wasn't he hurt against vandy?

hogsanity

Quote from: onebadrubi on August 21, 2017, 09:49:30 am
Wasn't he hurt against vandy?

My mistake, that's right he was still playing in the 4th Q of a game the Hogs were up by about 30 in.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

tampahog

So dont develop your backup qb because youre afraid of your backup wr getting hurt ??

hogsanity

Quote from: tampahog on August 21, 2017, 10:33:36 am
So dont develop your backup qb because youre afraid of your backup wr getting hurt ??

Not what was being said AT ALL.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawginbigd1

CBB has kept his starting QB in games where there was no doubts about the outcome, running most if not all the offense. Those are meaningful snaps that could/should go to your #2 imho.

hogsanity

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on August 21, 2017, 10:53:27 am
CBB has kept his starting QB in games where there was no doubts about the outcome, running most if not all the offense. Those are meaningful snaps that could/should go to your #2 imho.

Bill Belicheck stlll had Brady in the game up 30+ with 6 mins left, but what would he know about coaching either.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogsanity

The bigger thing here is we are 10 days from game 1, with a rs fr and a rs soph battling for the #2 spot and neither can separate from the other.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawginbigd1

Quote from: hogsanity on August 21, 2017, 10:57:27 am
Bill Belicheck stlll had Brady in the game up 30+ with 6 mins left, but what would he know about coaching either.
When his backups have only ever played 3A high school football then get back to me with that explanation

VBCHog

I think it is huge who the backup is for this reason. Next season, we return a lot of talent and experience on both sides of the ball other than the position of quarterback. If cole kelley can step up and handle the reins, we will be set. Maybe Daulton Hyatt can make a run for the job. Storey in my mind is out of the competition for next years starter because he can't throw.

hogsanity

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on August 21, 2017, 11:07:38 am
When his backups have only ever played 3A high school football then get back to me with that explanation

So thats reason enough to just plan to play the backup as part of the game plan, which is what several here have suggested in other threads. How ad's are not coming to Hogville looking for their next HC is a real head scratcher.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Wildhog

Are we really using NFL examples?  There aren't eligibility limits on NFL players.

We WILL have a new starting QB next year, so we have to do everything we can to get the future starter ready.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: Wildhog on August 21, 2017, 11:10:22 am
Are we really using NFL examples?  There aren't eligibility limits on NFL players.

We WILL have a new starting QB next year, so we have to do everything we can to get the future starter ready.

Well, I guess we should expect to see lots of teams playing their "backup" planning for next season, except, no, they won't do that at all.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawginbigd1

Quote from: hogsanity on August 21, 2017, 11:09:24 am
So thats reason enough to just plan to play the backup as part of the game plan, which is what several here have suggested in other threads. How ad's are not coming to Hogville looking for their next HC is a real head scratcher.
Don't conflate what I said with others, however Holtz did it his whole career and i thought it was an idea that had merit. He was pretty successful.

rzrbk4life

My money is on Cole Kelley as the back up
Let's call those hogs!!!!

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on August 21, 2017, 11:11:44 am
Well, I guess we should expect to see lots of teams playing their "backup" planning for next season, except, no, they won't do that at all.

Backups play all the time in blowouts, especially against FCS and G5 competition. 

That's all I want to see.  Of course, to do that we have to actually blow someone out.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hogsanity

Quote from: Wildhog on August 21, 2017, 11:17:33 am
Backups play all the time in blowouts, especially against FCS and G5 competition. 

That's all I want to see.  Of course, to do that we have to actually blow someone out.

That is not what most of these people are wanting though. I agree they play all the time in blowouts. Usually handing off to run the clock out. Maybe throwing a pass or two just to get to do that, but those are not "meaningful" snaps to the people posting about "meaningful" snaps.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

gchamblee

Quote from: VBCHog on August 21, 2017, 11:07:59 am
I think it is huge who the backup is for this reason. Next season, we return a lot of talent and experience on both sides of the ball other than the position of quarterback. If cole kelley can step up and handle the reins, we will be set. Maybe Daulton Hyatt can make a run for the job. Storey in my mind is out of the competition for next years starter because he can't throw.

I think we should sit AA and let our current 2 and 3 alternate each week playing the entire game. This will give us our best shot at having a quality QB next year. It gives us an advantage over next years opponents. Then, next year, we could do the same thing and be ridiculously advanced for the 2019 season.

Boss Hog in the Arkansas

All I know is Austin got hurt in the Aubrun game last year. When they zoomed in on Ty Storey his pupils were the size of golf balls. Deer in headlights indeed. He clearly wasn't ready
That's right, you don't want to be the man to replace the man.  You want to be the man to replace Rory Segrest.

hogsanity

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on August 21, 2017, 11:36:46 am
All I know is Austin got hurt in the Aubrun game last year. When they zoomed in on Ty Storey his pupils were the size of golf balls. Deer in headlights indeed. He clearly wasn't ready

And getting mop up snaps against FAMU is not going to get anyone ready for that either.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

gchamblee

Quote from: Boss Hog in the Arkansas on August 21, 2017, 11:36:46 am
All I know is Austin got hurt in the Aubrun game last year. When they zoomed in on Ty Storey his pupils were the size of golf balls. Deer in headlights indeed. He clearly wasn't ready

lol so you know the readiness of our backup qb based on a 5 second camera zoom in shot. I wish we could have seen Neil Armstrongs eyes right before they opened the hatch. I bet he looked like a deer in the headlights. I also bet as soon as the hatch opened, he started doing what he was trained to do and handled it like a champ.

hawganatic

So 2012 against ULM, Brandon Allen is put in the game in the second half (Tyler Wilson hurt I believe) and the offensive coordinator tries to get BA some "meaningful snaps" by throwing the ball instead of pounding it on the ground and bleeding the clock out.

To the "meaningful snap" gang, just stop...

Wildhog

Quote from: hogsanity on August 21, 2017, 11:46:52 am
And getting mop up snaps against FAMU is not going to get anyone ready for that either.

It'll help some.  Let the backup throw some passes and not exclusively hand it off.  FAMU's getting paid, regardless.  Let us get in our reps.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Kevin

Quote from: Wildhog on August 21, 2017, 11:57:35 am
It'll help some.  Let the backup throw some passes and not exclusively hand it off.  FAMU's getting paid, regardless.  Let us get in our reps.

agree

but cbb has a pro mentality. back up rarely play
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

Carl Lazlo

Quote from: Deep Shoat link=topic=636101.msg1t0918172#msg10918172 date=1503324429
Point out some of them, in the last decade.

Really?  Just last season Patrick Mahomes back up Nic Shimonek attempted 58 passes.

hogsanity

Quote from: Kevin on August 21, 2017, 11:58:28 am
agree

but cbb has a pro mentality. back up rarely play

Actually he has the mentality of coaches from jrhs through the nfl. They only play the backup if safely ahead, woefully behind, or the starter gets hurt. Problem is most of them consider safely ahead to be about 100 pts with a minute to go. 
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawg66

Quote from: Carl Lazlo on August 21, 2017, 12:15:44 pm
Really?  Just last season Patrick Mahomes back up Nic Shimonek attempted 58 passes.

So now you wish your coach was more like Kliff Kingsbury?  Ok....