Among Rule Changes That "Should" Be Made...

[MuskogeeHogFan]

A "Roughing The Passer" call when the QB (or passer) has run outside the Tackle Box providing him with the option to either throw or run. The penalty on Ledbetter in the waning seconds of regulation vs. A&M last season comes to mind and was just pure b.s. Among others that we received last year, that is one I thought of, only because I happened to see it again on SEC Replay vs. A&M just now.

Meanwhile I didn't see them call "Targeting" on A&M when BA was running the football inside the 5 on another occasion in that game when it was clearly a helmet to helmet hit with no intention to get the A&M helmet below the shoulder pads.

[Pigsknuckles]

I understand that the tackle box rule was designed to protect the QB, and it has done just that. However, I still despise it because It punishes a defense for good play, with no cost to the offense apart from the down.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I understand that the tackle box rule was designed to protect the QB, and it has done just that. However, I still despise it because It punishes a defense for good play, with no cost to the offense apart from the down.

Yes, but in the game I referenced, the QB had rolled out towards the sideline and in fact was wayyyy outside the tackle box and just a split second after he released the ball, Ledbetter nailed him. Ledbetter was already in motion to make the strike, the QB left the protection of the tackle box, and it wasn't a head to head collision. Yet the QB immediately starts waving his arms and looking at the official to do something. Bogus call. Can you have roughing the passer when the QB has chosen to leave the tackle box? I don't think so but I'll leave that to any current football officials on this site.

[atekido]

QBs should be 100% hittable if they leave the box.  regardless if they try to slide or not.  To many times they pretend to slide or pretend to go out of bounds and the D has to let up as to not get a penalty and then the QB just keeps going.  It is a very broken lopsided rule that gives a huge advantage to teams using running QBs.

[hobhog]

Add to that the ability to throw the ball into oblivion to avoid a sack when outside the box regardless if there is a receiver in the area. Drives me crazy...

[Inhogswetrust]

Add to that the ability to throw the ball into oblivion to avoid a sack when outside the box regardless if there is a receiver in the area. Drives me crazy...

Me too. I think that's one reason why they have the "ball must go past the line of scrimmage" rule. My thing is as long as the ball is in the QB's hands even IF his arm is moving forward there can be an assumption he might try to tuck it and run thus it should not be considered an attempted pass until it has actually left the QB's hand. Until then he should be fair game.

[Pigsknuckles]

Yes, but in the game I referenced, the QB had rolled out towards the sideline and in fact was wayyyy outside the tackle box and just a split second after he released the ball, Ledbetter nailed him. Ledbetter was already in motion to make the strike, the QB left the protection of the tackle box, and it wasn't a head to head collision. Yet the QB immediately starts waving his arms and looking at the official to do something. Bogus call. Can you have roughing the passer when the QB has chosen to leave the tackle box? I don't think so but I'll leave that to any current football officials on this site.

I agree. Guess I was ranting about the rule itself. There is so much subjectivity when calling roughing, or targeting. They have tried to address some of that with replay on targeting calls, but the decision conditions are becoming so complicated that I believe officials tend to make the "safe" call, and let it work itself out later. Maybe this is just Homer, but we seem to end up on the bad side of those calls, and most always in a crucial situation.

[hawg IQ]

A "Roughing The Passer" call when the QB (or passer) has run outside the Tackle Box providing him with the option to either throw or run. The penalty on Ledbetter in the waning seconds of regulation vs. A&M last season comes to mind and was just pure b.s. Among others that we received last year, that is one I thought of, only because I happened to see it again on SEC Replay vs. A&M just now.

Meanwhile I didn't see them call "Targeting" on A&M when BA was running the football inside the 5 on another occasion in that game when it was clearly a helmet to helmet hit with no intention to get the A&M helmet below the shoulder pads.

Would like to see more reviews on Officials made public, discussed by analyzers and so on. if not this , some other means to hold them accountable.

  Seeing game hinge on calls as in forward passes/fumbles or not and targeting ( pure bs rule) never enforced fairly or evenly. Also more restrictions on replay officials and go back to beyond all doubt before changing the field call.

[LittlePigMan]

It doesn't really matter what the rules actually are. The refs are going to screw us no matter what. 

[hawginbigd1]

Yes, but in the game I referenced, the QB had rolled out towards the sideline and in fact was wayyyy outside the tackle box and just a split second after he released the ball, Ledbetter nailed him. Ledbetter was already in motion to make the strike, the QB left the protection of the tackle box, and it wasn't a head to head collision. Yet the QB immediately starts waving his arms and looking at the official to do something. Bogus call. Can you have roughing the passer when the QB has chosen to leave the tackle box? I don't think so but I'll leave that to any current football officials on this site.

There is not a box for roughing the passer, and it applies to any player who is a passer, not just the QB. In what you described, unless it was a head/shoulders hit or below the knees hit it sounds as it may have been a bad call. I don't recall it, but I am getting older

You mentioned BA in an earlier post, there is not a targeting rule on a runner, all is fair except horse collar and facemask.

[GuvHog]

There is not a box for roughing the passer, and it applies to any player who is a passer, not just the QB. In what you described, unless it was a head/shoulders hit or below the knees hit it sounds as it may have been a bad call. I don't recall it, but I am getting older

You mentioned BA in an earlier post, there is not a targeting rule on a runner, all is fair except horse collar and facemask.

A defensive player can have a personal foul called on them for helmet to helmet contact with a runner though.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

There is not a box for roughing the passer, and it applies to any player who is a passer, not just the QB. In what you described, unless it was a head/shoulders hit or below the knees hit it sounds as it may have been a bad call. I don't recall it, but I am getting older

You mentioned BA in an earlier post, there is not a targeting rule on a runner, all is fair except horse collar and facemask.

As I recall from yesterday, it was a shoulder into the chest. Not below the knees nor above the shoulders.

[The_Iceman]

Have they put any rules or place, or emphasized the enforcement of rules, that will prevent the blocking downfield done by teams like Auburn, Ole Miss, and Texas a&m?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Have they put any rules or place, or emphasized the enforcement of rules, that will prevent the blocking downfield done by teams like Auburn, Ole Miss, and Texas a&m?

I believe that proposed legislation was tabled, but the officials "promised" that they would pay more attention to that happening in games.

[Pig in the Pokey]

It doesn't really matter what the rules actually are. The refs are going to screw us no matter what. 

secrefmonster, for real

[flynhog]

Remove the facemask. 

We'll see who wants to play ball.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

1. Return to not allowing O-Linemen to use their hands (legally). An era that produced more improved technique and quickness as an advantage in blocking along the O-Line instead of the incessant "rooster-fighting" between O-Linemen and D-Linemen.

2. No offensive linemen downfield in any capacity for any yardage at all on a screen pass or any other pass, period. There's no confusion and no judgement call to be made that way.

3. DB's can only have contact with Receivers in the first 5 yards of the LOS and the same for Receivers with DB's. If a DB doesn't look back at the ball in an effort to make a play and is in contact with the Receiver at the time of a reception, screening/interference is called. By the same token, offensive interference can be called on the offensive receiver for use of an "arm bar" or "push off" at any time.

4. QB's or other players throwing the ball are not protected from hits by the defense (unless fragrantly after the pass) once outside the tackle box.

5. Allow Defensive personnel to strike the Center after snaps for punts, FG's and extra points.

6. Allow blocking below the waist though not when another offensive player is engaged with the target.

7. For QB's, a "Grounding" call can be made anytime a receiver is not within at least 10 yards of the area to which a ball is thrown, whether past the LOS or not.

8. A "holding" call can be made on any offensive player who is blocking a defensive player (within 10 yards of the intended receiver) in an effort to keep him from reacting to a receiver prior to the receiver making the attempt at a reception.

There's just a few, I'm sure we can think of more.

[Inhogswetrust]

1. Return to not allowing O-Linemen to use their hands (legally). An era that produced more improved technique and quickness as an advantage in blocking along the O-Line instead of the incessant "rooster-fighting" between O-Linemen and D-Linemen.

2. No offensive linemen downfield in any capacity for any yardage at all on a screen pass or any other pass, period. There's no confusion and no judgement call to be made that way.

3. DB's can only have contact with Receivers in the first 5 yards of the LOS and the same for Receivers with DB's. If a DB doesn't look back at the ball in an effort to make a play and is in contact with the Receiver at the time of a reception, screening/interference is called. By the same token, offensive interference can be called on the offensive receiver for use of an "arm bar" or "push off" at any time.

4. QB's or other players throwing the ball are not protected from hits by the defense (unless fragrantly after the pass) once outside the tackle box.

5. Allow Defensive personnel to strike the Center after snaps for punts, FG's and extra points.

6. Allow blocking below the waist though not when another offensive player is engaged with the target.

7. For QB's, a "Grounding" call can be made anytime a receiver is not within at least 10 yards of the area to which a ball is thrown, whether past the LOS or not.

8. A "holding" call can be made on any offensive player who is blocking a defensive player (within 10 yards of the intended receiver) in an effort to keep him from reacting to a receiver prior to the receiver making the attempt at a reception.

There's just a few, I'm sure we can think of more.

Agree with #2 and #4 and maybe #7 and #8.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Agree with #2 and #4 and maybe #7 and #8.

Well that's 50%, so there is that.

[PonderinHog]

Well that's 50%, so there is that.

Something doesn't smell right with #4.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Something doesn't smell right with #4.

Well then check your "smeller", because it needs to be recalibrated. But perhaps further explanation is required..."in terms of roughing the passer".

[PonderinHog]

Well then check your "smeller", because it needs to be recalibrated. But perhaps further explanation is required..."in terms of roughing the passer".

I'm pretty sure it's you this time.   

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I'm pretty sure it's you this time.   

Maybe we have a misunderstanding? I'm not for QB's, RB's or WR's or any other personnel being protected by "roughing the passer" rules when they exit the tackle box unless it is a purposeful hit after a reasonable amount of time (not including the defensive player having already launched their body to strike). Besides, if there is any call at all it should just be a personal foul and not "roughing the passer" if they have in fact, exited the tackle box. But when they have exited the tackle box they become potential runners and the fact that they may throw the ball is just a sub-set of what might occur, so I tend to view them as "fair game" unless as I said, it is a flagrant hit well after the ball has been thrown and left their hands.

[PonderinHog]

Maybe we have a misunderstanding? I'm not for QB's, RB's or WR's or any other personnel being protected by "roughing the passer" rules when they exit the tackle box unless it is a purposeful hit after a reasonable amount of time (not including the defense player having already launched their body to strike). Besides, if there is any call at all it should just be a personal foul and not "roughing the passer" if they have in fact, exited the tackle box. But when they have exited the tackle box they become potential runners and the fact that they may throw the ball is just a sub-set of what might occur, so I tend to view them as "fair game" unless as I said, it is a flagrant hit well after the ball has been thrown and left their hands.

Now that I can agree with...

4. QB's or other players throwing the ball are not protected from hits by the defense (unless fragrantly after the pass) once outside the tackle box.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Now that I can agree with...

Yes, I agree, that does "smell" bad.

[Dr. Starcs]

Isn't #6 already a rule?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Isn't #6 already a rule?

It is supposed to be, but I have seen many calls where the standard was not applied and where it didn't apply in many other circumstances downfield. As an example, as I understand the rule, you are not supposed to be able to block downfield on Punts or Kick Returns below the waist, it should be allowed on any play beyond the LOS regardless of the play. Maybe I misunderstand the current rule but I didn't think that was allowed.

[Dr. Starcs]

Ok thanks. I wasn't sure but I thought so.

[ALLVOL]

A rule I've never liked is when an offensive player fumbles the ball through the endzone the other team gets the ball on the 20 yrd line. The ball goes out of bounds and should be treated like any other out of bounds. I think the offense should get the ball on the 1 yrd line.

[Inhogswetrust]

Maybe we have a misunderstanding? I'm not for QB's, RB's or WR's or any other personnel being protected by "roughing the passer" rules when they exit the tackle box unless it is a purposeful hit after a reasonable amount of time (not including the defensive player having already launched their body to strike). Besides, if there is any call at all it should just be a personal foul and not "roughing the passer" if they have in fact, exited the tackle box. But when they have exited the tackle box they become potential runners and the fact that they may throw the ball is just a sub-set of what might occur, so I tend to view them as "fair game" unless as I said, it is a flagrant hit well after the ball has been thrown and left their hands.

I couldn't agree more! How many times have we seen QB's roll out only to run even when they act like they might throw the ball. Heck OUR QB's have done that.

[Inhogswetrust]

A rule I've never liked is when an offensive player fumbles the ball through the endzone the other team gets the ball on the 20 yrd line. The ball goes out of bounds and should be treated like any other out of bounds. I think the offense should get the ball on the 1 yrd line.

Bring it back to whatever the line of scrimmage was. On any fumble past the line of scrimmage but not going out in the Endzone forward no matter which team recovers or if it goes out of bounds past the line of scrimmage.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

Yes, but in the game I referenced, the QB had rolled out towards the sideline and in fact was wayyyy outside the tackle box and just a split second after he released the ball, Ledbetter nailed him. Ledbetter was already in motion to make the strike, the QB left the protection of the tackle box, and it wasn't a head to head collision. Yet the QB immediately starts waving his arms and looking at the official to do something. Bogus call. Can you have roughing the passer when the QB has chosen to leave the tackle box? I don't think so but I'll leave that to any current football officials on this site.

This made me think of something that drives me crazy.

I hate it when a player tries to SELL a cheat.
Faking being held at the end of the play, faking pass interference, QBs selling a late hit, moving a downed ball, etc.

Why not consider this Unsportsmanlike Conduct with the full penalty?

[Inhogswetrust]

I've never understood why a stiff arm by the ball carrier to the defenders facemark isn't a penalty. That should be the same as a hand to the face penalty.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I've never understood why a stiffer by the ball carrier to the defenders facemark isn't a penalty. That should be the same as a hand to the face penalty.

Agreed. Hand on the helmet, ok. On the facemask, penalty. And there will be those who say that things just happen so quickly it could happen by accident. The same can be said of helmet to helmet contact at times as well. You are going to come in with your shoulder and the RB lowers his head to protect himself and the next thing you know, you have a helmet to helmet collision by no fault of the defensive player. Yet, they can be flagged for it and in some games that are closer, that penalty could effect the outcome.

[hawginbigd1]

Well that's 50%, so there is that.

I am calling BS on #5, clearly you must not have played that position! Yeah I am going to call out the Dirty Alma Airdales back in my day spearing me in the back of the head after I snapped every punt and PAT. Of course it was at Alma! Got me a one week suspension because I refused to shake hands after the game! One week was ok, better than getting kicked off the team, because I was going to tear me some airdale heads off if I had went out there!

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I am calling BS on #5, clearly you must not have played that position! Yeah I am going to call out the Dirty Alma Airdales back in my day spearing me in the back of the head after I snapped every punt and PAT. Of course it was at Alma! Got me a one week suspension because I refused to shake hands after the game! One week was ok, better than getting kicked off the team, because I was going to tear me some airdale heads off if I had went out there!

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

I don't like how WR's can "block" by grabbing 2 handfuls of jersey when the play is to their side.  When I think about it, I don't like anybody with 2 handfuls of jersey anytime, O-line included.  Doesn't the definition of "hold" have something to do with using your hands to control something?

[SkeeterHawg]

Was watching the replay of the Ole Miss game today and noted several times they ran a similar play.  They would stack 2 WR out to one side.  The front receiver would run about 5 yards down field and block the CB into the sideline.  The other receiver would run out 3 to 5 yards down field and receive the pass about where the CB was lined up.  Why is this deemed legal?  Is that not a forward pass?  Shouldn't the blocking receiver be called for some kind of interference?  I would assume that if the DB was to hit the intended receiver before the ball got to him he would be flagged for pass interference.  I noticed it during the game last year but my questions were forgotten after the heave play.

Examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq6nsIKK_tQ play was at 1:48:40, 2:01:00, and 2:16:00.  They set it up several other times but didn't throw that direction.

[hawg IQ]

A rule I've never liked is when an offensive player fumbles the ball through the endzone the other team gets the ball on the 20 yrd line. The ball goes out of bounds and should be treated like any other out of bounds. I think the offense should get the ball on the 1 yrd line.

good point and don't forget a running back cannot fumble the ball forward, its should be spotted where the ball came loose if defense didn't recover.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Was watching the replay of the Ole Miss game today and noted several times they ran a similar play.  They would stack 2 WR out to one side.  The front receiver would run about 5 yards down field and block the CB into the sideline.  The other receiver would run out 3 to 5 yards down field and receive the pass about where the CB was lined up.  Why is this deemed legal?  Is that not a forward pass?  Shouldn't the blocking receiver be called for some kind of interference?  I would assume that if the DB was to hit the intended receiver before the ball got to him he would be flagged for pass interference.  I noticed it during the game last year but my questions were forgotten after the heave play.

Examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq6nsIKK_tQ play was at 1:48:40, 2:01:00, and 2:16:00.  They set it up several other times but didn't throw that direction.

That's one of the ongoing problems that we have seen with the spread offenses and how they put people out in front of receivers blocking defensive personnel before the reception is made. There was a time that you couldn't do that. How it has gotten to where it is now is beyond me.

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

Was watching the replay of the Ole Miss game today and noted several times they ran a similar play.  They would stack 2 WR out to one side.  The front receiver would run about 5 yards down field and block the CB into the sideline.  The other receiver would run out 3 to 5 yards down field and receive the pass about where the CB was lined up.  Why is this deemed legal?  Is that not a forward pass?  Shouldn't the blocking receiver be called for some kind of interference?  I would assume that if the DB was to hit the intended receiver before the ball got to him he would be flagged for pass interference.  I noticed it during the game last year but my questions were forgotten after the heave play.

Examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq6nsIKK_tQ play was at 1:48:40, 2:01:00, and 2:16:00.  They set it up several other times but didn't throw that direction.

Definitely shouldn't be legal, if it is.  If it's illegal, it needs to be called as pass interference.  It's the same as having two crossing routes and one receiver setting a pick on the target receiver's defender.  Same principle.

[The_Iceman]

Definitely shouldn't be legal, if it is.  If it's illegal, it needs to be called as pass interference.  It's the same as having two crossing routes and one receiver setting a pick on the target receiver's defender.  Same principle.

Exactly. Hopefully, it will be a point of emphasis. I would love to see these rinky dink offenses get called for multiple offensive pass interference or blocking down field penalties week one to set the tone. It is a cheap play that puts those teams at a disadvantage over teams that don't break those rules. I'm sure Bret Bielema would love to do some illegal blocking in the run game to open up running lanes.