Norvell/Campbell/Frost bigger risks than Bielema was.

[The Hawg Marshal]

Campbell is a proven winner.  He got it done at Toledo and now at Iowa State.  Bielema had 1 stop and was the product of the system.  How can you even make the claim that Campbell is more risky than Bielema?!?!?!?

Good point.

[007 License To Squeal]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

If Bellyma was even slightly successful, you might have a point........but he wasn't and your point is moot.....Troll.

[WilsonHog]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

Short and to the point:

(1) There is no guarantee that any coach will succeed at Arkansas, regardless of his previous track record.

(2) There comes a time when a fan base grows tired of a coach. Familiarity breeds contempt. Happened with coaches much more successful than Bielema.

[247Hog]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

Gotcha. We can only make a coaching change if its Saban, Meyers or Stoops takes the job.

[The Hawg Marshal]

Short and to the point:

(1) There is no guarantee that any coach will succeed at Arkansas, regardless of his previous track record.

(2) There comes a time when a fan base grows tired of a coach. Familiarity breeds contempt. Happened with coaches much more successful than Bielema.

Yep.

[LZH]

JJ Cale once said he wrote up to 1300 songs before he finally broke through with "After Midnight" and "Cocaine".

This may not necessarily apply 100% to the topic, but if you aren't willing to continue to take risks you are not going to reach the top of the mountain.

[okrazorback]

  Bielema took over a program already built at Wisconsin! He has NEVER built a program from stratch. In hindsight there are many things wrong with hiring Bielema.

I think Gus should be # 1

[247Hog]

I think Gus should be # 1

I'm not sure i i can spend an entire season watching him wiggle, scratch and pick his nose.

[ipigsooie]

I will give whoever we hire my full support. If we go the retread route with les or gus or whoever, I will be behind them. I personally feel like we need a young, energetic guy to lead us. I will probably get berated for this, but I happen to think we have the players here to do really well next year. If we get the right system and some energy, I think we could make some noise.

Campbell is the most obvious as he is a program builder. I just don't think he has any interest in us, nor does he have the recruiting roots that we need. Morris would do well also. He has great ties to Texas high school football, but it's looking like a&m may have an opening and I happen to think norvell is a better coach on the field than morris anyway. Frost will be Florida and Nebraska's first choice so it's pointless to consider him. To me, Norvell is ready. His offense is exciting, his special teams play and attention to detail are amazing and his defense isn't great, but you have to think losing so many starters has to hurt and they do enough on defense to win.  He also has a background from the dfw area which is key to our success. He coaches guys up. Their receiver is mocked to go to the cowboys at 15.

Of course there are no guarantees. CBB proved it. He was a great hire from a big time program. He should've done a lot better. We can point at many mistakes and missteps but it doesn't matter. He just isn't getting the job done.

And last but not least, WPS!  We will be back!

[Dropkick]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

So would you rather have CBB another year or do you have someone in mind you think can be successful that will actually come here?

[HogPharmer]

JJ Cale once said he wrote up to 1300 songs before he finally broke through with "After Midnight" and "Cocaine".

This may not necessarily apply 100% to the topic, but if you aren't willing to continue to take risks you are not going to reach the top of the mountain.

Call Me The Breeze....!!!

However, some may take your post to mean we should give CBB 1300 games before we fire him... You never know, that could be the breakout number he needs to pull off Arkansas' next NC!

[ricepig]

I'm not sure i i can spend an entire season watching him wiggle, scratch and pick his nose.

But he can do it while chewing gum like his life depended on it, so there's that...

[LZH]

Call Me The Breeze....!!!

However, some may take your post to mean we should give CBB 1300 games before we fire him... You never know, that could be the breakout number he needs to pull off Arkansas' next NC!

I'll be 150 yrs old, and passionately watching the Largo city shuffleboard league by then. Go Manatees!

[Ex-Trumpet]

I am truly amazed that CBB still has supporters.  We've all seen his body of work--what you see is what you get.

It's like reelecting a horrible president to a second term...you're gonna get more of the fail--only it makes it infinitely more difficult to recover from when the fail finally leaves.

[mckinneyhog5]

I only want two coaches..Patterson or Strong. Anyone else is just lil ole arkansaw mentality with these up and comers.

[East Clintwood]

And OSU was only down one year

Maybe that's why Bert only beat them once out of 6 tries.

[Bebop]

Barry Alvarez 1990–2005
118–73–4  conf 65–60–3  Big Ten Titles 1993, 1998, 1999 Bowls 11 Bowl Record 8–3


Bret Bielema 2006–2012
68–24  Conf: 37–19   Big Ten Titles 2010, 2011, 2012 Bowls 6 Bowl Record 2–4 Never won Rose Bowl..........

Reminds me of this article: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/10/10/16449914/gary-andersen-bret-bielema-wisconsin-football-coaches-barry-alvarez

The important point in that article:

Bret Bielema and Gary Andersen had a combined .737 win percentage in their nine seasons as Wisconsin head coaches.

Since leaving for Arkansas and Oregon State, respectively, they've combined to go .395.

Bottom line is that Bielema was a system's coach and it shows.

[King Kong]

Maybe that's why Bert only beat them once out of 6 tries.

Lol, well he didn't even beat them that year

[Wmhog]

Those 2 players are better than any 2 offensive players SEC has put out in 10 years

Sorry, didn't realize Cousins and Bell were Heisman trophy winners. Like 4 SEC players during the same period

[hog of steele]

Title is true. But it ignores the last five years. The question isn't "was CBB a risk?" The question is are they a bigger risk than he is today.

The last 5 years have taught us that CBB wasn't a fit for our program. Most of us understood why he might work, but today, keeping him is a long shot at best.

If what you have isn't working, trade it. The new thing at least has a chance of working.

[King Kong]

Those 2 players are better than any 2 offensive players SEC has put out in 10 years

Sorry, didn't realize Cousins and Bell were Heisman trophy winners. Like 4 SEC players during the same period

And where are those Heisman winners now? With the exception of Cam they haven't done s*** in the NFL.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

The answer is nothing. BUT we know B.B. has been a disaster. Might as well dream that the next coach will succeed even though we all know that if he isn't successful he will be massacred eventually by people who claim they knew he wouldn't.

[Cinco de Hogo]

The answer is nothing. BUT we know B.B. has been a disaster. Might as well dream that the next coach will succeed even though we all know that if he isn't successful he will be massacred eventually by people who claim they knew he wouldn't.

I suppose you knew Petrino would crash his bike right?  Some were hollowing from day one that he would crash and burn, then it happened.  So, what's the difference if some knew BB wasn't the right fit for Arkansas?  Your only stance is that it was contrary to your opinion. 

[HeathWimp]

If Bellyma was even slightly successful, you might have a point........but he wasn't and your point is moot.....Troll.

I think this guy is a true believer.  Look at his posts going back the last two years....

[DoctorSusscrofa]

I suppose you knew Petrino would crash his bike right?  Some were hollowing from day one that he would crash and burn, then it happened.  So, what's the difference if some knew BB wasn't the right fit for Arkansas?  Your only stance is that it was contrary to your opinion.

I don't try to predict disaster, nor do I enjoy it or celebrate it.  I wanted B.B. to be successful because I am a lifelong hog fan. Whoever is coach next will be hated by several posters immediately and by more every time he loses. And by the time he wears out his welcome, as he inevitably will, there will be a hundred or more posters who knew it from day 1.

[huntindoc]

Again, completely inaccurate.  The hire back then was not made knowing what we know now.  Based on the facts and coaching records that were present at the time of the hire, CBB appeared to be very qualified, much more so than the guys people are getting excited about today, me included.  Obviously now we all know that was a failure.  Hindsight and all that. 

I think he was saying they are less of risk than Bielema "is" now.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I don't try to predict disaster, nor do I enjoy it or celebrate it.  I wanted B.B. to be successful because I am a lifelong hog fan. Whoever is coach next will be hated by several posters immediately and by more every time he loses. And by the time he wears out his welcome, as he inevitably will, there will be a hundred or more posters who knew it from day 1.

Possible not you but if not then why are you making a point ☝️ of it?  Did you post the same thing eight years ago?  Of course not because we were winning.  Tell me again why you are taking up for a losing coach.  Because you are a Hog fan? 

[popcornhog]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

Yeah, again, I agree that Bielema was a low risk and great hire. But he hasn't worked out -- that's the thing.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

Possible not you but if not then why are you making a point ☝️ of it?  Did you post the same thing eight years ago?  Of course not because we were winning.  Tell me again why you are taking up for a losing coach.  Because you are a Hog fan?

Who's taking up for him. I've already said he's lost me. But the love for these other coaches is just dreaming. Every one of them will be hated if they coach UA. Our fans always choose hate when we lose games. And at UA they will lose games. Bama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, TAMU are all at an advantage. And no coach will win enough not to be hated. I remember clearly when fire Broyles was the popular mantra. And Holtz, Hatfield, Ford, and Nutt. Our fans are mean. And always will be.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Who's taking up for him. I've already said he's lost me. But the love for these other coaches is just dreaming. Every one of them will be hated if they coach UA. Our fans always choose hate when we lose games. And at UA they will lose games. Bama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, TAMU are all at an advantage. And no coach will win enough not to be hated. I remember clearly when fire Broyles was the popular mantra. And Holtz, Hatfield, Ford, and Nutt. Our fans are mean. And always will be.

You pay a coach 4mil to win in the end that's what gets him fired.  Arkansas is only one of several hundred places that it works that way and yes according to some that equates to "hate".  Even my momma said "if you can't handle the fire stay out of the kettle".  I never judge a coach on like or dislike, he's a mercenary paid to do a job, if you leave YOUR love out of it maybe the hate wouldn't have to show up to get rid that of a losing coach. 

[Swine-as-wine]

Michigan State had Kirk Cousins and Levon Bell. That's a top 10 NFL QB and the best RB in the NFL.Not as weak as one would suggest at the top. OSU only had one down year during the time.

Michigan and Penn State are better now.

Big 10 bottom still sucks as now as it did then.

Cousins doesn't make the top 20, let alone the top 10, and I can name at least 9 running backs better than Levon Bell

[SchrodingersHog]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

I'm not arguing with your post.  It just seems like you left something out.

1.  Are you implying BB should remain the coach, or
2.  Are you saying get rid of BB but don't hire anyone without head coaching experience in the SEC, or
3.  Are you saying fire BB but don't hire any of these three coaches?

If so,
1.  You are to be commended on your loyalty.
2.  I'm not sure who we could hire with SEC head coaching experience and a good record in the SEC.  Maybe Spurrier?  Gus?
3.  Do you have a different mid-major coach in mind?

[Pork Twain]

Really?  So your going to fight a war and your going to base your strategy on factors that "was" vs factors that "is"?  Even in the B10 the factors from CBB era are not the factors of today.  Plus the factors of the CBB era at Wisky sure as shooting didn't exist in the SEC.

It is the most basic of logic that dictates when comparing two things, you do so on an even scale, i.e. how they looked at the time of the hire.  Much like when comparing a players 1st vs another players first year.  You would not compare one players 5th year to another players 1st and pretend that was valid...or would you?

[code red]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

2010. Big 10.  MSU 7-1, Wiskey 7-1 next best is Iowa 4-4......meh....not on board.

[hawgdavis]

With great risks come great rewards.  Think I may coin that phrase.  Truth is, there is no way of knowing if it will work out or not.  Whether they are a proven coach, a defensive minded coach, an offensive guru, a CEO type coach, a hot up and comer, etc.  None of us know who can come here and be successful.  That being said, it's easy to see what isn't working. 

Do your homework if you want to know about "X" coach.  Every weekend you can watch their teams play.  There are plenty of articles detailing their philosophies.  Plenty of material out there to form your own opinion on who you think would do well here. 

It's obvious he wants to keep B.B. he has defended him in every thread he has been on tonight or got after people that had something negative about his coaching or the way the team played and acted today.

[hawgdavis]

Gotcha. We can only make a coaching change if its Saban, Meyers or Stoops takes the job.

You left one out his favorite
B.B.

[Cinco de Hogo]

It is the most basic of logic that dictates when comparing two things, you do so on an even scale, i.e. how they looked at the time of the hire.  Much like when comparing a players 1st vs another players first year.  You would not compare one players 5th year to another players 1st and pretend that was valid...or would you?

I don't know pork, you brought up strategy but it seems your talking about correlation, maybe without factoring in causation. Threads get whacky trying to keep up with myself much less others and their thoughts.  If I 'm talking about strategy I don't know that your premise is relevant.

[GoHogs1091]

Campbell and Frost can coach.  They are not a bigger risk than Bielema.

I am not sold on Norvell.  Fuente left him a football program on solid footing.

[Gonzo]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

The one who IS there has proven he won't succeed, what the hell more do you need? If your question is about who should be the replacement, I'll grant there is a discussion to be had. But if your question is should a change be made, I'll just leave it with that is a completely blind argument.


Go Hogs!

[RME]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

What's easier to accept? Giving an "up and comer" 5 years and seeing this result or giving an "established" guy 5 years and seeing this result?

Neither are easy to swallow, but if a Norvell/Campbell was doing this in year 5 compared to a Bielema/Malzahn in year 5, I know for which coach I'd have an easier time understanding his struggle.

Easy answer for me.

[Matt Burks]

Campbell and Frost can coach.  They are not a bigger risk than Bielema.

I am not sold on Norvell.  Fuente left him a football program on solid footing.

Actually, in my research, I found were other coaches said Fuentes once spent several days with Norvell a couple of years ago talking about football, and Fuentes changed his offense to Norvell's offense. Also I read an article that mentioned that Gus, Norvell, the SMU coach and Dowell Loggians swap ideas too: http://archive.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/20130830asu-offensive-coordinator-mike-norvell-driven-best.html

[Pork Twain]

I don't know pork, you brought up strategy but it seems your talking about correlation, maybe without factoring in causation. Threads get whacky trying to keep up with myself much less others and their thoughts.  If I 'm talking about strategy I don't know that your premise is relevant.

Talk about trying to overcomplicate things.  This has nothing to do with either of those.  It is about looking at past coaching hires in comparison to future coaching hires, at the same point in the hiring process.

[The_Iceman]

Campbell and Frost can coach.  They are not a bigger risk than Bielema.

I am not sold on Norvell.  Fuente left him a football program on solid footing.

Look at that Chad Morris was left at SMU, and look at where they are now. Amazing job.

[Ham Ham Pigelow]

Why isn't Chad Morris on the list with these 3?

I bet Aggy already in contact.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Talk about trying to overcomplicate things.  This has nothing to do with either of those.  It is about looking at past coaching hires in comparison to future coaching hires, at the same point in the hiring process.

Sorry, people start talking about "is" "was" "strategy" "correlation" and "causation" my head starts spinning. LOL!  I ain't that smart.

[Ham Ham Pigelow]

I would like for one of the people who are blowing the Mike Norvell/Campbell/Frost horn to please explain to me what makes you think they will succeed here at Arkansas?  None of them put together even come close to accomplishing what Bielema did at Wisconsin in the much tougher Big Ten conference.  So, please enlighten me,  what have these coaches done to make you think they can win in the grinder known as the SEC?

Look, I get your concern.  But your argument lacks all the context.  Because those coaches you mentioned are relatively "unproven" make it necessary we keep Bielema?  After what you saw yesterday? 

If you're not simply trolling (small chance you are), then your opinions on this matter, through which I've seen in several threads, are 100% based on fear of failure.  No program ever hires a new coach expecting guaranteed success.  But you don't just keep a coach because you're scared of what's around the next corner.  The financial stakes in P5 football are way too damn high to be overly conservative as an AD.

[Kevin]

Look, I get your concern.  But your argument lacks all the context.  Because those coaches you mentioned are relatively "unproven" make it necessary we keep Bielema?  After what you saw yesterday? 

If you're not simply trolling (small chance you are), then your opinions on this matter, through which I've seen in several threads, are 100% based on fear of failure.  No program ever hires a new coach expecting guaranteed success.  But you don't just keep a coach because you're scared of what's around the next corner.  The financial stakes in P5 football are way too damn high to be overly conservative as an AD.

cbb was a paper tiger at Wisconsin. just look at the badgers this year, they will play nobody.

[Paul]

Actually, in my research, I found were other coaches said Fuentes once spent several days with Norvell a couple of years ago talking about football, and Fuentes changed his offense to Norvell's offense. Also I read an article that mentioned that Gus, Norvell, the SMU coach and Dowell Loggians swap ideas too: http://archive.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/20130830asu-offensive-coordinator-mike-norvell-driven-best.html

thanks for the link

[Cinco de Hogo]

Actually, in my research, I found were other coaches said Fuentes once spent several days with Norvell a couple of years ago talking about football, and Fuentes changed his offense to Norvell's offense. Also I read an article that mentioned that Gus, Norvell, the SMU coach and Dowell Loggians swap ideas too: http://archive.azcentral.com/sports/asu/articles/20130830asu-offensive-coordinator-mike-norvell-driven-best.html

Good read,

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Cousins doesn't make the top 20, let alone the top 10, and I can name at least 9 running backs better than Levon Bell

Bull. Levon Bell is the best RB in the League.

Cousins is a top 10 QB