Something that both Norvell and Campbell prove that many are overlooking!

[SemperFi]

I believe that coaching means everything to the success or failure of a team. I also believe that the SEC is a completely different set of circumstances than the Sun Belt or the American West Conference. I disagree that success in those types of conferences can't or will not translate to the SEC. Coaching means everything. Iowa St has got to be one of the toughest jobs in all of college football and yet they beat OU. In 2017 Iowa St finished 52nd in recruiting; Memphis finished 56th. Coaching and development of that talent is the most important aspect of winning and losing. As Lake City pointed out a bad coach can drag a good football team down, whereas a good coach can get the most out of his players and beat top 20 teams that had far more success in the recruiting wars.

I'll take good coaching.

[Atlhogfan1]

Take a close look a CBB's best defense at Arkansas (2014). Over half of the starters were Petrino recruits. Petrino had the players in place for a good defense but the problem was he kept Willy Robinson as DC too long. He finally let Willy go right after the 2011 season and hired a new DC.  The difference in the defense was very noticeable against a top 10 ranked Kansas state team in the Cotton Bowl. The defense was improving but that DC didn't get a chance to finish the job under Petrino.

It wasn't WR.  It was the lack of depth on defense in 2008 and 2009.  The underclassmen forced to play in those seasons became adequate defenses in 2010 and 2011.  The Cotton Bowl defense was pretty good.  K St not a great offensive team and qb play wasn't very good in the passing game.  We had seniors who made plays in that game.  Players who were not going to be on the 2012 team.  It would have been another step down in the cycle of Arkansas defenses.  With Petrino, we wouldn't have had Spaight as part of that triangle.  Still would have played the bad string of qb's in 2014 so whomever Petrino had as DC probably would have looked pretty good that season. 

Hog fans have put way too much blame and credit on the DC's in our SEC era. 

[GuvHog]

We went 10-4, 8-5, in the two years previous to Petrino arriving. Hardly obscurity. Heck, we were a couple plays away from playing in the NC in 2006.

BP did good here, but lets not act like he started with nothing.

Look at the roster BP inherited. The talent level was very low. The entire starting offensive backfield left after the 2007 season and we also lost the best receiver from that 2007 team. He did inherit a good TE and a barely serviceable starting QB along with part of the starting Oline returning. He didn't inherit many quality returning starters on defense either. That's why after finishing the 2007 season ranked in the top 25, they were not ranked going into the 2008 season..

[hogsanity]

When a coach can take over a program and in 4 years take it from obscurity to finishing #5 in the nation and do it while running a clean program, he is an Elite Head Coach.

Arkansas was no where near obscurity when BP took over. They were one year removed from a seccg appearance, and had a guy finish as the Heisman runner-up just a couple months before BP took over.

[hogsanity]

Ok who is your pick for a new coach then?

No idea. I would prefer someone that has actually won games using all players they recruited, so someone who has been at the same job for 4 or 5 years. But that is just preference, not a guarantee ( as we well know ) of any success. 

Like I said, Norvell may turn out to be great, but the assertion of such, based on a handful of games, is laughable. I will say this, if Memphis was 701, but playing 21-17 type games, running out of the I and only throwing for 200 a game, not many on here would be as quick to want him. And I know that because of how little mention Scott Frost gets, but his team drilled Memphis, but they have like 238 rushes and only 168 passes on the season.

[Atlhogfan1]

I believe that coaching means everything to the success or failure of a team. I also believe that the SEC is a completely different set of circumstances than the Sun Belt or the American West Conference. I disagree that success in those types of conferences can't or will not translate to the SEC. Coaching means everything. Iowa St has got to be one of the toughest jobs in all of college football and yet they beat OU. In 2017 Iowa St finished 52nd in recruiting; Memphis finished 56th. Coaching and development of that talent is the most important aspect of winning and losing. As Lake City pointed out a bad coach can drag a good football team down, whereas a good coach can get the most out of his players and beat top 20 teams that had far more success in the recruiting wars.

I'll take good coaching.

Arkansas doesn't have a choice as we aren't going to outrecruit most of our competition.  Recruiting matters.  Coaches at Arkansas aren't going to overcome our recruiting vs the SEC no matter how great they are just on their coaching ability.  We have to be put in a position to be consistent enough to take advantage of opportunities.  For example, LSU has been hit hard over recent seasons with attrition to the NFL.  Their recruiting has been great.  But it has led to a cycle that has caught up to them.  We can't underachieve.  Nutt underachieved too often when opportunities arose.  Bielema has as well. 

The OP is way off.  You are looking at a tiny sample size.  We've upset more talented teams as well.  For us, it isn't about upsetting or beating a few teams in a season or two who have outrecruited us.  We have to play a minimum of 4 conference games, and often 6, where teams haven't just outrecruited us but most everyone else in college football.  Recruiting matters.  Talented depth shows up in areas like STs where we have been inconsistent since we got to the SEC.  Many seasons where hoping we just catch the punt was an accomplishment.

I have no preference on the next coach.  Whatever is my thought right now.  Not enamored with the spread but tired of hearing the whining about it too.  Didn't say this to shoot down Campbell, Norvell or any other candidate for which you are campaigning.

[GuvHog]

Arkansas was no where near obscurity when BP took over. They were one year removed from a seccg appearance, and had a guy finish as the Heisman runner-up just a couple months before BP took over.

I refer you to reply #52 in this thread. You are wrong.

[Atlhogfan1]

BP inherited little on defense.  Should have still made a bowl vs that schedule if not for choke at UK. 

[hogsanity]

I refer you to reply #52 in this thread. You are wrong.

A "bare" cupboard and being in obscurity are 2 very different things. Obscurity means no one knows about you. The definition of obscurity : the state of being unknown, inconspicuous, or unimportant.

After 2006 and 2007, Arkansas football was none of those.

[GuvHog]

BP inherited little on defense.  Should have still made a bowl vs that schedule if not for choke at UK. 

With what BP inherited, no one expected the Hogs to get bowl eligible that year. The team had lost too many players from the 2007 team.

[GuvHog]

A "bare" cupboard and being in obscurity are 2 very different things. Obscurity means no one knows about you. The definition of obscurity : the state of being unknown, inconspicuous, or unimportant.

After 2006 and 2007, Arkansas football was none of those.

Wrong again. After losing so many players off of the 2007 team and hiring a new HC, the Hogs were unknown and unranked to begin the 2008 year.

[hogsanity]

Wrong again. After losing so many players off of the 2007 team and hiring a new HC, the Hogs were unknown and unranked to begin the 2008 year.

Hogville would be better if they did to you what they did to hogcard. Go to the UL fan board and push your BP is god agenda there. See how many agree with your assessment of him.

[mckinneyhog5]

Wrong again. After losing so many players off of the 2007 team and hiring a new HC, the Hogs were unknown and unranked to begin the 2008 year.

Bielema finished 7th in AP in 2006 (his first year), 7th in 2010 (his 5th year) and 10th in 2011 (his 6th year) at Wisconsin. So, by your logic BB is an elite coach, right? The last time Wisconsin was ranked in the top 10 before BB was 1999.

[GuvHog]

Bielema finished 7th in AP in 2006, 7th in 2010 and 10th in 2011 at Wisconsin. So, by your logic BB is an elite coach, right? The last time Wisconsin was ranked in the top 10 before BB was 1999.

No, CBB had a former Elite HC as an AD that was looking over his shoulder and CBB was running the AD's system.

[hogsanity]

Bielema finished 7th in AP in 2006 (his first year), 7th in 2010 (his 5th year) and 10th in 2011 (his 6th year) at Wisconsin. So, by your logic BB is an elite coach, right? The last time Wisconsin was ranked in the top 10 before BB was 1999.

His answer was so predictably Guv like. The criteria he lays our that make BP Elite only apply to BP. Guv, Eastex and Ironhog are apparently still on the BP PR team payroll.

[GuvHog]

Hogville would be better if they did to you what they did to hogcard. Go to the UL fan board and push your BP is god agenda there. See how many agree with your assessment of him.

Whoa there. he's far from being a God but he is a great Head Coach.

Now there are some on here who seem to think Jeff Long is a God who can do no wrong.

[Hoggish1]

I can think of tons of meaningful games since joining the conference.

Tenn
LSU
OLE MISS
FLORIDA
SC

I just hate we haven't been able to beat Georgia

Beat UGA at their place the year we went to the Sugar Bowl

[mckinneyhog5]

No, CBB had a former Elite HC as an AD that was looking over his shoulder and CBB was running the AD's system.

Then why didn't alvarez, who was the previous coach, able to obtain BB results? Alvarez 2000 rank- 23, 2001-03 Not ranked, 2004 rank-17, 2005 rank-15.

[Atlhogfan1]

That UGa team went 6-6 and lost in the Liberty Bowl to UCF 10-6.

[GuvHog]

That UGa team went 6-6 and lost in the Liberty Bowl to UCF 10-6.

Record doesn't matter. Beating Georgia between the hedges is a very, very rare occurrence.

[mckinneyhog5]

Record doesn't matter. Beating Georgia between the hedges is a very, very rare occurrence.

Over the last 10 years they've had 14 losses at Stanford Stadium. So, an average of 1.4 losses a year.

[GuvHog]

Over the last 10 years they've had 14 losses at Stanford Stadium. So, an average of 1.4 losses a year.

That's pretty rare, and it's even rarer for the Hogs seeing as that was their first win over Georgia since joining the SEC just as the win over Florida last year was the Hogs first since joining the SEC.

[mckinneyhog5]

That's pretty rare, and it's even rarer for the Hogs seeing as that was their first win over Georgia since joining the SEC just as the win over Florida last year was the Hogs first since joining the SEC.

Its not "rare" because they dont play 10 games home games a year. They played 70 home games in that time span amd lost 20% of those. Rare would be <5% and in some cases <1%.

[hogginbama]

I agree that there is a huge impact in college coaching. But there is also a huge difference between 3* and 5*'s.

That difference would be in not having just a couple of 4-5*'s on the field, but having a starting lineup of 4-5*'s and their backups being 4-5*'s. That is what you have at the top of the heap. Even when CBP had us with big wins our recruiting did not take a huge leap. Kids must know something about Arkansas that none of us know since the good ones don't come here in high numbers when we are winning or losing.

[hogsanity]

That difference would be in not having just a couple of 4-5*'s on the field, but having a starting lineup of 4-5*'s and their backups being 4-5*'s. That is what you have at the top of the heap. Even when CBP had us with big wins our recruiting did not take a huge leap. Kids must know something about Arkansas that none of us know since the good ones don't come here in high numbers when we are winning or losing.

IMO, it is nothing sinister about Fay. It is simply the fact that Fay is so far from home, and that they have many choices of top level programs closer to home, programs with more recent success, and more chance to win big on a consistent basis.

Think about it, if I am a stud LB from Bama or GA, to go to Fay I have to bypass ( By bypass I mean these schools are closer to home ) Bama, Aub, Ga, FLA, and maybe LSU or SC or TN, and thats just SEC schools.

[GuvHog]

Its not "rare" because they dont play 10 games home games a year. They played 70 home games in that time span amd lost 20% of those. Rare would be <5% and in some cases <1%.

You, yourself stated that they average losing around 1 game a year in Athens. Now you're trying to back track and change the discussion.

[mckinneyhog5]

You, yourself stated that they average losing around 1 game a year in Athens. Now you're trying to back track and change the discussion.

I never said 1 game a year. I said they average 1.4 losses a year over the last 10 year span. You do the math..70 home games over that time period 1.4 losses x 10 years =14 losses. 14/70= 0.20x100=20%. Good gravy man does math escape you?

[hogsanity]

I never said 1 game a year. I said they average 1.4 losses a year over the last 10 year span. You do the math..70 home games over that time period 1.4 losses x 10 years =14 losses. 14/70= 0.20x100=20. Good gravy man does math escape you?

have to post it like this for Guv. 70 home games BP, 1.4 BP losses X BP 10 years = Petrino 14 losses. bp/70 ='s bp.

[greenie]

Agree to disagree. He is an Elite HC.

I understand that sentiment, but for me, he's not even close.  Has he ever won a conference title anywhere (maybe Conference USA) much less a national title?  Can he put together an elite staff?  Does he recruit at an elite level and represent the University with class?  How many assistants have gained from spending time with him and gone on to achieve themselves?  Since "elite" is a fuzzy term, everyone will have their own indisputable opinion.  My elite list would be Saban, Dabo, Bob Stoops, and Urban.  Honorable mentions would all be overachievers: James Franklin, Chris Peterson, Mark Dantonio, and Bill Snyder.  Petrino can get you some wins because he's a great offensive mind, no doubt, but as far as running a program at an elite level, I don't see it.

[JethroB.]

I can think of tons of meaningful games since joining the conference.

Tenn
LSU
OLE MISS
FLORIDA
SC

I just hate we haven't been able to beat Georgia

Childs please!!

[SpaCityHawg]

That's pretty rare, and it's even rarer for the Hogs seeing as that was their first win over Georgia since joining the SEC just as the win over Florida last year was the Hogs first since joining the SEC.

Hogs first win over Georgia since joining SEC 1993, 20-10 in Athens. Danny Ford was Head Hog.

[cjack]

Aw shucks.  The real fans know Arkansas can never be a winning program.  The real fans know we just aren't good enough.  The real fans know we are terrible at everything in our state and should be happy to win a couple games each year.  We are poor little old Arkansas.

[hogsanity]

Aw shucks.  The real fans know Arkansas can never be a winning program.  The real fans know we just aren't good enough.  The real fans know we are terrible at everything in our state and should be happy to win a couple games each year.  We are poor little old Arkansas.

I'll ask you what I have asked many posters here before ( likely you in whatever your other screen name(s) are ), What is a winning program? Is it winning more games than you lose each year? Winning X number of games a year? Is it winning division titles? Conf titles? Making the playoff? Winning the playoff?

[cjack]

I'll ask you what I have asked many posters here before ( likely you in whatever your other screen name(s) are ), What is a winning program? Is it winning more games than you lose each year? Winning X number of games a year? Is it winning division titles? Conf titles? Making the playoff? Winning the playoff?

It's just me.  A winning program at Arkansas is a top 25 program.  Some years we would hover in and out of the bottom part and some years we hover around the top 10 to 15.  We are top 25 in recruiting, coach's salary, and if there was a way to measure facilities I would assume we are top 25 there.  We are even top 25 in all time wins, which is not bad for poor little Arkansas.

Incompetence is unacceptable, and our coach hasn't shown he is able to make us a top 25 program.

[GuvHog]

Hogs first win over Georgia since joining SEC 1993, 20-10 in Athens. Danny Ford was Head Hog.

Thanks for the info, I missed that one.

[hogsanity]

It's just me.  A winning program at Arkansas is a top 25 program.  Some years we would hover in and out of the bottom part and some years we hover around the top 10 to 15.  We are top 25 in recruiting, coach's salary, and if there was a way to measure facilities I would assume we are top 25 there.  We are even top 25 in all time wins, which is not bad for poor little Arkansas.

Incompetence is unacceptable, and our coach hasn't shown he is able to make us a top 25 program.

Since joining the SEC the HOgs have finished ranked 5 times is 25 full seasons.

Yes, they finish about 25th in recruiting each year, which means 8-10 teams in the same conference finish better, ostensibly getting better players year after year. Yet somehow the Hogs are supposed to overcome that and win enough to be around the bottom of the top 25 most years and around 10-15 some years?

How do they rank in total wins since 1990? 1980, 1970?

Agree BB has shown nothing here to make anyone think he will make this a top 25 program.

[cjack]

Since joining the SEC the HOgs have finished ranked 5 times is 25 full seasons.

Yes, they finish about 25th in recruiting each year, which means 8-10 teams in the same conference finish better, ostensibly getting better players year after year. Yet somehow the Hogs are supposed to overcome that and win enough to be around the bottom of the top 25 most years and around 10-15 some years?

How do they rank in total wins since 1990? 1980, 1970?

Agree BB has shown nothing here to make anyone think he will make this a top 25 program.

All the coaches (hopefully) that have been here since we joined the SEC have been let go.  If they were good coaches and getting what we should expect, why aren't they still here? I haven't fired any of them, but apparently those that did expect our program to be better.

You can keep coming up with reasons why we shouldn't be good.  I'll keep coming up with reasons why we should be.  It's ok with me if you accept being poor little old Arkansas.  I don't.

[The Hawg Marshal]

All the coaches (hopefully) that have been here since we joined the SEC have been let go.  If they were good coaches and getting what we should expect, why aren't they still here? I haven't fired any of them, but apparently those that did expect our program to be better.

You can keep coming up with reasons why we shouldn't be good.  I'll keep coming up with reasons why we should be.  It's ok with me if you accept being poor little old Arkansas.  I don't.

I'm with you. We can do better and we should keep trying to. We have to show that we are willing to try to win.

[hogsanity]

All the coaches (hopefully) that have been here since we joined the SEC have been let go.  If they were good coaches and getting what we should expect, why aren't they still here? I haven't fired any of them, but apparently those that did expect our program to be better.

You can keep coming up with reasons why we shouldn't be good.  I'll keep coming up with reasons why we should be.  It's ok with me if you accept being poor little old Arkansas.  I don't.

Being good, and being top 25 or 15 are different things.  The Hogs were good in the 2nd half of 2014, the last 3/4ths of 2015 and all but the 2nd half of the last 2 games of 2016.

As for the coaches not being here. Crown got canned for losing to the Citadel. Ford for having back to back 4-7 years after winning the secw, HDN simply because he had worn out his welcome. Bp because he was a liar. Really, the only one fired for w's and l's aloe is probably Ford.

[Grizzlyfan]

Neither Iowa State nor Memphis recruits to our current level, without looking I would bet no closer than maybe 15 to 20 slots behind. Yet, both seem to be able to win against "superior talent".

I think that this proves a couple of things.

1. There isn't a ton of difference in the athletic ability of 3*, 4* and even 5* players. Teams that recruit good quality players on a consistent basis, use a scheme to highlight the physical capabilities of those players and at the same time try to scheme to cover their deficiencies can play with a LOT of the "elite" schools.
Sure, that becomes much harder against the truly loaded teams like Alabama, Clemson and a few others. But, it still happens that the lesser team manages to sneak up on even those guys every now and then.

2. Coaching in the college game is so VERY important!! A really good coach can make up for less talent and ability the same as a bad coach can drag down some truly gifted players. We see this EVERY week! All you have to do is look at Florida and LSU in our own league, how many teams in America have more talent top to bottom than those 2 teams?

If we get the right guy we can make plenty of noise in the SEC recruiting at our current level. Let him win a8 or 9 games for 2 years and he could easily have us inside the top 20 and things could get really interesting.

It's dangerous to point to wins against "superior talent".  Last year Memphis lost to Mississippi.  This year they beat UCLA.  The rest of their games were/are against very similar mid major teams.

[STLhawg]

If we get the right guy we can make plenty of noise in the SEC recruiting at our current level. Let him win a 8 or 9 games for 2 years and he could easily have us inside the top 20 and things could get really interesting.

We had a coach that had 10 and 11 wins in back to back seasons, and it didn't seem to move the recruiting needle. 

[lakecityhog]

Well, I would say that Flowers, Philon, Wise, BA, Hamilton, Wright and SEVERAL others might disagree with you just a little bit. ALL were recruited by BP and ALL are in the NFL, pretty good recruiting if you ask me.

As for how "good" Norvell or Brohm or Frost or Doreen could make us, that is VERY open to debate. Are they a crapshoot? SURE!!! Other than Saban or Meyer or just a couple of other guys EVERY candidate is EXACTLY the same thing, a crapshoot!

It seems like there are MANY things that escape some of you guys! You are so focused on the way that YOU see things that you cannot see reality. Guys from those "lesser" schools normally recruit "lesser" talent. Not because they are bad recruiters but because MOST of the Star recruits are going to the "bigger" programs. That is just a plain and simple fact. Now another plain and simple fact is that sometimes those guys find the kids that the bigger teams and the recruiting services overlook and that is why we see quite a few 2* guys on NFL starting line-ups.

Another truth is that SOMETIMES those young coaches are pretty good at developing a kid to his maximum potential. Sometimes a kid just gets lucky and pairs himself to a coach with a system that highlights his own best attributes and thus gets noticed more. Plus that oldest cliche of all---- everyone loves Cinderella and when a Cinderella does well the publicity is great for the Coach, the School and even for the Players!

[From Tusk Till Dawn]

Take a close look a CBB's best defense at Arkansas (2014). Over half of the starters were Petrino recruits. Petrino had the players in place for a good defense but the problem was he kept Willy Robinson as DC too long. He finally let Willy go right after the 2011 season and hired a new DC.  The difference in the defense was very noticeable against a top 10 ranked Kansas state team in the Cotton Bowl. The defense was improving but that DC didn't get a chance to finish the job under Petrino.

So by the same token, if CBB is not retained, and another coach has success with his players does that mean he is not a terrible recruiter any longer?

[East Clintwood]

So by the same token, if CBB is not retained, and another coach has success with his players does that mean he is not a terrible recruiter any longer?

Probably.

Even today, I give Bert a lot more credit for his recruiting than I do for his leadership, coaching, and player development.

Not that his recruiting has been great but it's better than everything else.

[clutch]

No idea. I would prefer someone that has actually won games using all players they recruited, so someone who has been at the same job for 4 or 5 years. But that is just preference, not a guarantee ( as we well know ) of any success. 

Like I said, Norvell may turn out to be great, but the assertion of such, based on a handful of games, is laughable. I will say this, if Memphis was 701, but playing 21-17 type games, running out of the I and only throwing for 200 a game, not many on here would be as quick to want him. And I know that because of how little mention Scott Frost gets, but his team drilled Memphis, but they have like 238 rushes and only 168 passes on the season.

I think the reason Frost isn't mentioned more around here is because he seems the least attainable. With Nebraska likely to be open and Florida already open, one of the two feels like it will be his landing spot. No, I'm not saying we can't compete for coaches with Florida, but I do feel like we can't compete with Florida for Frost. I think with him already being in the state, and having recruiting ties there, it would be hard from him to choose us over them.

Norvell is the most talked about because he seems the most realistic. In our backyard, with strong ties to not only the state, but the NWA area itself. Then, of course, there are all the rumors about the UofA being his dream job.