Thurman replacing Zimmerman

[hogsanity]

AS long as we can all agree that making a bowl game is not even remotely the same as making the NCAAT as many have tried to argue. The SEC is a tough conference in football no doubt. But high school football in the south is much better than high school basketball in the south. Exactly why you see on average better competition out of conferences like the A10, Big 10, and ACC. The east, and northeast are loaded with basketball talent where as they are not loaded with football talent. Shouldn't be a shock to see your better conferences are placed where the better regional talent comes from.

Then why try to compare football and basketball at all, which of course it what some have been saying for quite a while.

[Kevin]

AS long as we can all agree that making a bowl game is not even remotely the same as making the NCAAT as many have tried to argue. The SEC is a tough conference in football no doubt. But high school football in the south is much better than high school basketball in the south. Exactly why you see on average better competition out of conferences like the A10, Big 10, and ACC. The east, and northeast are loaded with basketball talent where as they are not loaded with football talent. Shouldn't be a shock to see your better conferences are placed where the better regional talent comes from.

can we say winning 7-8 football games and a bowl games is equal to 20 wins & nit bid

[azhog10]

Then why try to compare football and basketball at all, which of course it what some have been saying for quite a while.

I think sometimes, and I'm speaking for myself not for others, the comparison isn't so much about the sports, as it is the treatment of the coaches. If we want to talk about W/L's and that seems to be what it always boils down to. We bring in coaches to be successful, PERIOD. The conference we are in just becomes an excuse and crutch for some. Being the SEC, no matter the record, gives you an added advantage not just in recruiting, but also in terms of bowls and rankings. Our conference is almost always slated for two teams in the final four......WHY? Because of the respect it has gained over the recent years. So yes, the football team's model of success will look different bc they are in the SEC in football, however I don't think we are paying CBB all that money to just be a middle of the road SEC West team. So the comparison is brought up bc the hypocrisy of being okay with being middle of the pack in one sport only because the "conference" is "SOOO GOOD". I think that's just an excuse to make us feel better about not being able to make it to an SEC Championship.

That said I would expect the SEC to be stronger in football and baseball bc those are sports that really benefits from the less harsh winters where as basketball is played primarily indoors and the cost to play is much cheaper.

[HawgAdvocate]

All I know is people have bitched and moaned for a change and mostly with Coach Z needing to be replaced. That happens and the same people are still bitching without giving it any time whatsoever.

To be fair, the majority who asked for change asked for an 'ace' recruiting assistant, and/or someone with obvious ties to the NBA and/or Nike. Someone with a proven history, like Glynn Cyprien, Amir Abdur-Rahim, or Korey McCray.

Change did happen. But the common, often frowned-upon theme of nepotism within the staff certainly didn't. 'New blood' wasn't actually introduced. There is nothing about Scotty's resume that reassures fans that improved recruiting is on the way. Thus, the questions remain.

is it 'change,' just for the sake of change? Or was this a well thought out, developed & executed improvement of the program for years to come?

[Atlhogfan1]

AS long as we can all agree that making a bowl game is not even remotely the same as making the NCAAT as many have tried to argue. The SEC is a tough conference in football no doubt. But high school football in the south is much better than high school basketball in the south. Exactly why you see on average better competition out of conferences like the A10, Big 10, and ACC. The east, and northeast are loaded with basketball talent where as they are not loaded with football talent. Shouldn't be a shock to see your better conferences are placed where the better regional talent comes from.

Few have tried to argue.  But there has to be an acknowledgement of our program's more unique situation in the SEC in football and basketball as it relates to depth of competition and strength of schedules.  We aren't just one of 80 teams out of 125 trying to get into a bowl.  Our SOS in football has been among the highest in college football while our basketball SOS has been one of the lowest of all power conference teams.  %wise it is easier to make a bowl.

The SEC footprint has many high school basketball recruits in it.  The problem with the SEC has been emphasis and lack of brand attraction.

Tenn, Fl, Ga and Texas(#1) are in this list of top 10 compiled from ESPN ratings from 2010-14:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1751325-the-10-states-that-produce-the-best-college-basketball-talent/page/11

[hogsanity]

That said I would expect the SEC to be stronger in football and baseball bc those are sports that really benefits from the less harsh winters where as basketball is played primarily indoors and the cost to play is much cheaper.

And in those sports where the league is tougher, the coaches hired to run those teams are doing pretty good. This may be the 1st yr DVH has not made the NCAAT, and BB has gone for 3, to 6 to 8 wins over his 3 years, and that included 5-3 in the SEC last year. As you point out, and I agree, SEC basketball overall suffers in many areas, yet in such a weak conf, our bball team still can't do anything.

[azhog10]

can we say winning 7-8 football games and a bowl games is equal to 20 wins & nit bid

I think min of 8 wins and a bowl. 7 isn't enough when you think that almost half of your wins can come from teams like Alcorn State, and Texas State.

I would say an NIT bid is very close to what we did this last season though. I think 8 wins before the bowl is closer, but I wouldn't put up much of an argument with 8 being the final win total.

[hogsanity]

I think min of 8 wins and a bowl. 7 isn't enough when you think that almost half of your wins can come from teams like Alcorn State, and Texas State.

I would say an NIT bid is very close to what we did this last season though. I think 8 wins before the bowl is closer, but I wouldn't put up much of an argument with 8 being the final win total.

8 wins before the bowl is a win % of 67. The equivalent of that in basketball would be 22.11 wins, so I'll round down to 22, that is going to be Ncaa bubble, at best, most years out of this weak of a SEC, again depending on who the 22 wins were against. 8 wins in football, before the bowl, is going to get pretty good bowl a lot of the time.

[azhog10]

And in those sports where the league is tougher, the coaches hired to run those teams are doing pretty good. This may be the 1st yr DVH has not made the NCAAT, and BB has gone for 3, to 6 to 8 wins over his 3 years, and that included 5-3 in the SEC last year. As you point out, and I agree, SEC basketball overall suffers in many areas, yet in such a weak conf, our bball team still can't do anything.

Like I said, your "expectations" and what you are willing to accept is where the hypocrisy lies. CMA until this last season had increased his win total and SEC win total. Went from no tourney(back to back), NIT, to NCAAT. All during that time you were still bitching about it. So we were improving very close to the same lines as CBB, 6 wins wouldn't quite be the equivalent to an NIT, but 8 would and on the verge of equaling an NCAAT birth. I hope he continues that climb and even if we end with 8 again I would call that success. But the difference is, I'm not screaming for a change after year 3 while being okay with CMA's first three years. But you are okay with CBB's first three years while spewing your negativity since before that 3rd season.

[Atlhogfan1]

can we say winning 7-8 football games and a bowl games is equal to 20 wins & nit bid

Not when those 7-8 wins comes against a top 7 or higher schedule and the 20 basketball wins comes against one of the lowest 5 or so power conference schedules.  20 wins isn't what it once was. 

[Atlhogfan1]

I think sometimes, and I'm speaking for myself not for others, the comparison isn't so much about the sports, as it is the treatment of the coaches. If we want to talk about W/L's and that seems to be what it always boils down to. We bring in coaches to be successful, PERIOD. The conference we are in just becomes an excuse and crutch for some. Being the SEC, no matter the record, gives you an added advantage not just in recruiting, but also in terms of bowls and rankings. Our conference is almost always slated for two teams in the final four......WHY? Because of the respect it has gained over the recent years. So yes, the football team's model of success will look different bc they are in the SEC in football, however I don't think we are paying CBB all that money to just be a middle of the road SEC West team. So the comparison is brought up bc the hypocrisy of being okay with being middle of the pack in one sport only because the "conference" is "SOOO GOOD". I think that's just an excuse to make us feel better about not being able to make it to an SEC Championship.

That said I would expect the SEC to be stronger in football and baseball bc those are sports that really benefits from the less harsh winters where as basketball is played primarily indoors and the cost to play is much cheaper.

The jealousy has been obvious for years along with some other opinions as to why from a certain few. 

[azhog10]

8 wins before the bowl is a win % of 67. The equivalent of that in basketball would be 22.11 wins, so I'll round down to 22, that is going to be Ncaa bubble, at best, most years out of this weak of a SEC, again depending on who the 22 wins were against. 8 wins in football, before the bowl, is going to get pretty good bowl a lot of the time.

Like I said I wouldn't argue much that 8 wins is equal to an NIT birth, for us. 22 would put us on the bubble for the tourney, but again the amount of D1 Basketball teams > than football so you can't expect the win percentages to exactly equal out.

[Atlhogfan1]

Like I said, your "expectations" and what you are willing to accept is where the hypocrisy lies. CMA until this last season had increased his win total and SEC win total. Went from no tourney(back to back), NIT, to NCAAT. All during that time you were still bitching about it. So we were improving very close to the same lines as CBB, 6 wins wouldn't quite be the equivalent to an NIT, but 8 would and on the verge of equaling an NCAAT birth. I hope he continues that climb and even if we end with 8 again I would call that success. But the difference is, I'm not screaming for a change after year 3 while being okay with CMA's first three years. But you are okay with CBB's first three years while spewing your negativity since before that 3rd season.

It isn't hypocrisy.  It is having the ability to reason and view each situation as different. 

The win total increases have partially come due to scheduling which we know was awful the first 3 seasons and not much better the last two.  But again, this goes to part of this conversation you are wanting to gloss over as it isn't favorable to basketball and it suggests we should view each sport and program separately. 

[azhog10]

The jealousy has been obvious for years along with some other opinions as to why from a certain few.

Not sure if you are including me in this or not. But I am not jealous of either program. I am die hard with both and probably follow football a little more only because I am incredibly busy during basketball season so I can't quite put as much time into watching as I do for football. Hard to "encrypt" your post but I like CBB and honestly think he's doing a fantastic job here. I also believe that this could be CMA's last season if things don't change. If and when he moves on or is let go I will support the next guy until he decides to lay down and have a good bleed.

[azhog10]

It isn't hypocrisy.  It is having the ability to reason and view each situation as different. 

are wanting to gloss over as it isn't favorable to basketball and it suggests we should view each sport and program separately.

So I should have enough sense to reason and view each situation as different, and at the same time asking you to gloss over this and suggest we should view each sport and program separately?

Hmmm okay.

[Pork Twain]

I do not think it is a great hire but I think it has to be better than the staff we currently have, especially from a recruiting standpoint.

[Atlhogfan1]

Not sure if you are including me in this or not. But I am not jealous of either program. I am die hard with both and probably follow football a little more only because I am incredibly busy during basketball season so I can't quite put as much time into watching as I do for football. Hard to "encrypt" your post but I like CBB and honestly think he's doing a fantastic job here. I also believe that this could be CMA's last season if things don't change. If and when he moves on or is let go I will support the next guy until he decides to lay down and have a good bleed.

Absolutely I am.  Nothing to encrypt.  You just stopped short of where a few other posters take it as far as why you believe football and basketball are viewed in your opinion with hypocrisy.  You have gone on the last several minutes about how unfairly treated Anderson and the basketball program are comparatively to football.  Now you want to step back and act as if you are trying to be impartial and fair in your opinion? 

[Pork Twain]

Absolutely I am.  Nothing to encrypt.  You just stopped short of where a few other posters take it as far as why you believe football and basketball are viewed in your opinion with hypocrisy.  You have gone on the last several minutes about how unfairly treated Anderson and the basketball program are comparatively to football.  Now you want to step back and act as if you are trying to be impartial and fair in your opinion? 

He LOVES to compare basketball and football.

[hogsanity]

Like I said, your "expectations" and what you are willing to accept is where the hypocrisy lies. CMA until this last season had increased his win total and SEC win total. Went from no tourney(back to back), NIT, to NCAAT. All during that time you were still bitching about it. So we were improving very close to the same lines as CBB, 6 wins wouldn't quite be the equivalent to an NIT, but 8 would and on the verge of equaling an NCAAT birth. I hope he continues that climb and even if we end with 8 again I would call that success. But the difference is, I'm not screaming for a change after year 3 while being okay with CMA's first three years. But you are okay with CBB's first three years while spewing your negativity since before that 3rd season.

I said many times if in yr 5 BB puts up a 6-6 record or worse, then there is great cause for concern.

Again, no comparison to football is going to make what is going on the basketball program look better. If anything it makes it look worse. And it has nothing to do with hypocrisy, it has to do with the product. People have grown tired of Mike and his " gonna fight the bear " " gonna pick em up off the bus " fastest 40 minutes gonna play with energy etc, and seeing no results any better than what they saw the decade before he came back as HC.

Football, on the other hand, has seen big crowds, big performances in marquee tv games, exciting plays and a offensive explosion last year that no one really expected, but that was entertaining. Mike's style of ball is not entertaining 90% of the time. Long stagnant stretches on offense, poor defense, a press that does lead to excitement IF you like watching the other team dunk or shoot wide open 3's.

But the harsh reality is that for Arkansas basketball to draw huge crowds and excite the state the team has to be much better than good, it has to border on great. People are not going to care about a good basketball team because in this sec and in this day of college basketball, good gets you on the ncaat bubble at best. In football they get to watch in state guys like Morgan, Henry ( now gone ) BA, AA, Greenlaw, Ellis, Reed play. The same in state types in basketball get to be watched playing at FLA or KY or TT, because they do not come to play for Mike.

[hogsanity]

I do not think it is a great hire but I think it has to be better than the staff we currently have, especially from a recruiting standpoint.

Why? Thurman has no experience recruiting off campus. He has never been a college asst coach.

[azhog10]

Absolutely I am.  Nothing to encrypt.  You just stopped short of where a few other posters take it as far as why you believe football and basketball are viewed in your opinion with hypocrisy.  You have gone on the last several minutes about how unfairly treated Anderson and the basketball program are comparatively to football.  Now you want to step back and act as if you are trying to be impartial and fair in your opinion?

I'm not stepping back. He's clearly been treated differently. I'm not sure how you can say he hasn't. Since the day he was hired there were considerably more people against the hire due to the "past" than those that didn't like CBB due to his ties to the Big 10. That isn't a shock, and is a far cry from hypocrisy. I am not claiming for CBB to win an National Title while also being okay with CMA having only been to one NCAAT in five years. I think CBB is going in the right direction, and I think most of this board supports him as they should. But when CMA had us in an NCAAT that sentiment was not the same with him. He's deservedly on the hot seat due to this last season, but let's not act like all this criticism of his started last summer. It's been on here a long time and for some, since the day he was hired.

[azhog10]

I said many times if in yr 5 BB puts up a 6-6 record or worse, then there is great cause for concern.

Again, no comparison to football is going to make what is going on the basketball program look better. If anything it makes it look worse. And it has nothing to do with hypocrisy, it has to do with the product. People have grown tired of Mike and his " gonna fight the bear " " gonna pick em up off the bus " fastest 40 minutes gonna play with energy etc, and seeing no results any better than what they saw the decade before he came back as HC.

Football, on the other hand, has seen big crowds, big performances in marquee tv games, exciting plays and a offensive explosion last year that no one really expected, but that was entertaining. Mike's style of ball is not entertaining 90% of the time. Long stagnant stretches on offense, poor defense, a press that does lead to excitement IF you like watching the other team dunk or shoot wide open 3's.

But the harsh reality is that for Arkansas basketball to draw huge crowds and excite the state the team has to be much better than good, it has to border on great. People are not going to care about a good basketball team because in this sec and in this day of college basketball, good gets you on the ncaat bubble at best. In football they get to watch in state guys like Morgan, Henry ( now gone ) BA, AA, Greenlaw, Ellis, Reed play. The same in state types in basketball get to be watched playing at FLA or KY or TT, because they do not come to play for Mike.

I do want to make something clear, most of my issues with the whole football vs. basketball is treatment prior to this year. Any and all criticism that has come to past since this last season and I will include what happened since Portis and Qualls declared is deserved. CMA deserves the backlash and deserves to be on the hot seat and failure to make an NCAAT should result in losing his job. But you and others were consistently negative about the program after year three, which in my mind, is very similar to the year we just had in football. The best part about bowl games is a lot of teams get to end their season with a win.

[azhog10]

Why? Thurman has no experience recruiting off campus. He has never been a college asst coach.

A used car salesman would have pretty decent experience.......

[Pork Twain]

Why? Thurman has no experience recruiting off campus. He has never been a college asst coach.

Well obviously nobody else on this staff can recruit, so how could it be any worse?  At least he has played in our lifetime and has a ring to show.

[hogsanity]

It's been on here a long time and for some, since the day he was hired.

And rightfully so. At a time when the Hogs needed a dynamic recruiter and staff, we got a coach and staff that had never been stellar at that part of the job. You have pointed out, and rightly so, the recruiting issues SEC teams face. Well, to overcome that you have to be able to go outside the SEC footprint to recruit, and you surely have to be able to land top recruits in your own back yard. Also, when faced with those issues, is it wise to have a coach that runs a system that not only relies on certain types of players with certain types of talents, but has to be 10 deep to really run his style the way he wants to run it? If getting talent is already a problem, why hire a guy who needs more of it than most teams do when you are not in a great recruiting area and when the coach and his staff are not great recruiters?

[Sivad]

Thurman has no experience recruiting off campus. He has never been a college asst coach.

He should fit right in with Anderson's merry band of underachievers.

[hogsanity]

Well obviously nobody else on this staff can recruit, so how could it be any worse?  At least he has played in our lifetime and has a ring to show.

But he did not play in recruits lifetimes, and lots of coaches are going to show up in their homes wearing title rings.

[Pork Twain]

I'm not stepping back. He's clearly been treated differently.

As he should be because the powers that be actually understand basketball and football are two completely different animals and should never be compared.

[Pork Twain]

But he did not play in recruits lifetimes, and lots of coaches are going to show up in their homes wearing title rings.

I guess if you look hard enough you can find the negative in any move.

[azhog10]

And rightfully so. At a time when the Hogs needed a dynamic recruiter and staff, we got a coach and staff that had never been stellar at that part of the job. You have pointed out, and rightly so, the recruiting issues SEC teams face. Well, to overcome that you have to be able to go outside the SEC footprint to recruit, and you surely have to be able to land top recruits in your own back yard. Also, when faced with those issues, is it wise to have a coach that runs a system that not only relies on certain types of players with certain types of talents, but has to be 10 deep to really run his style the way he wants to run it? If getting talent is already a problem, why hire a guy who needs more of it than most teams do when you are not in a great recruiting area and when the coach and his staff are not great recruiters?

And this supports my argument. You feel the way you do, more power to you. You have your beliefs of what will work and what won't, that's great. But it goes to show the openness to accept one coach over another, accept mediocrity from one coach over another. I hope, if and when CMA leaves that they do what you just said. Find a great recruiter, not a coach, and then we can see how that pans out. If anything trial by fire.

[azhog10]

As he should be because the powers that be actually understand basketball and football are two completely different animals and should never be compared.

That they are, but I'm talking about acceptance. CMA was never accepted from the day he was hired. CBB was, therefore you are willing to "tolerate" more with one than the other because you have some emotional investment to it. For CMA it's a lot of hate and discontent and even when he was winning people still hated him and wanted him gone.

[azhog10]

I guess if you look hard enough you can find the negative in any move.

And he will do just that.

[hogsanity]

I do want to make something clear, most of my issues with the whole football vs. basketball is treatment prior to this year. Any and all criticism that has come to past since this last season and I will include what happened since Portis and Qualls declared is deserved. CMA deserves the backlash and deserves to be on the hot seat and failure to make an NCAAT should result in losing his job. But you and others were consistently negative about the program after year three, which in my mind, is very similar to the year we just had in football. The best part about bowl games is a lot of teams get to end their season with a win.

Mikes 3rd team went into the last weekend only needing a split at Bama and in their 1st sect game, according to most bracket analysts, to make the NCAAT. What did they do? They got routed by a pathetic Bama team, then lost to a poor SC team in the sect. Then in the NIT they go to Cal and look horrible in a game not nearly as close as the final score.

BB's 3rd team went into the last weekend, beat Mizzu ( a team not very good I will say, about like the Bama team that blew out Mike's team mentioned above ) then went to a packed out Liberty Bowl and rolled K-St.

I've said it before, I do not think it is Mike some of you get so worked up over, it is the fact that you still like Hog basketball, and most people do not. Most go from the bowl, to the NFL playoffs, to 2 months of waiting for spring practice, then they count the days to the start of fall football practice. That is what burns you.  And I get it, I love baseball, and I can't understand why very few people get excited about it, either college or mlb.

[Swinesong1]

Why do they keep trying to compare football and basketball?

Of course, you didn't notice I wasn't the one who compared the two.

[Pork Twain]

That they are, but I'm talking about acceptance. CMA was never accepted from the day he was hired. CBB was, therefore you are willing to "tolerate" more with one than the other because you have some emotional investment to it. For CMA it's a lot of hate and discontent and even when he was winning people still hated him and wanted him gone.

WTH?  He was not just accepted, he was demanded.  That is the only reason he was hired here.  Crack is wack...  Too bad for him, many realize it does not traditionally take 5+ years to turn a basketball team around and people are sick of basketball sucking.

[hogsanity]

That they are, but I'm talking about acceptance. CMA was never accepted from the day he was hired. CBB was, therefore you are willing to "tolerate" more with one than the other because you have some emotional investment to it. For CMA it's a lot of hate and discontent and even when he was winning people still hated him and wanted him gone.

That is just not true. From the moment Pel was fired, 99% of posters here, callers to radio shows, and fans in general wanted only 1 man- MIKE ANDERSON - to get the job. I football, after the JL SMith season, hog fans would have taken just about anyone, but and when they got a guy who had just seen his team earn 3 consecutive Rose Bowl trips, and 2 days before had destroyed their opponent in the BiG10CG, yea people got excited, for good reason.

[hogsanity]

Of course, you didn't notice I wasn't the one who compared the two.

Which is why I said they, not you. They as in those who keep doing that.

[HawgAdvocate]

CMA was never accepted from the day he was hired.....For CMA it's a lot of hate and discontent and even when he was winning people still hated him and wanted him gone.

That's a very small number of people you're pointing at. Though the number of disgruntled has certainly grown, thanks in large to one Dance in five seasons, along with questionable recruiting/retention.

[Atlhogfan1]

Back to the topic:

I'm very happy for Scotty in getting this chance.  Great person and very likeable.  I think he will relate well with recruits and with parents/guardians/handlers.  Not sure it will move the needle much.  But happy for him to get this opportunity.  Mike did take him with him when first hired and trying to keep the inherited class together.

I do question though what Mike's pool of assistant hires could be though.  He has his m.o.  Like Nolan he is stubborn.  Nolan even says he is.  The defensive system is unique.  This incestuous type of asst hiring and maintaining may be somewhat out of necessity with Mike.  He has his ways including seemingly preferring to go JC route or low hanging fruit/project recruit route vs playing the AAU game.  Not sure he wants to trust an outsider with AAU recruiting.  He knows Scotty. He can trust Scotty and TJ to do it his way plus they understand what he is trying to teach on the court.  Just seems like new ideas or new blood is too much to consider Anderson doing.  He is who he is and will finish up here in some fashion that way. 

[Kevin]

That they are, but I'm talking about acceptance. CMA was never accepted from the day he was hired. CBB was, therefore you are willing to "tolerate" more with one than the other because you have some emotional investment to it. For CMA it's a lot of hate and discontent and even when he was winning people still hated him and wanted him gone.

az-you are a very intelligent poster (although we disagree most of the time). but to say CMA was never accepted from the day he was hired, that is simply not true. I would say 90% of the fan base wanted CMA, and to most of them he can do no wrong.

[hogsanity]

Back to the topic:

I'm very happy for Scotty in getting this chance.  Great person and very likeable.  I think he will relate well with recruits and with parents/guardians/handlers.  Not sure it will move the needle much.  But happy for him to get this opportunity.  Mike did take him with him when first hired and trying to keep the inherited class together.

I do question though what Mike's pool of assistant hires could be though.  He has his m.o.  Like Nolan he is stubborn.  Nolan even says he is.  The defensive system is unique.  This incestuous type of asst hiring and maintaining may be somewhat out of necessity with Mike.  He has his ways including seemingly preferring to go JC route or low hanging fruit/project recruit route vs playing the AAU game.  Not sure he wants to trust an outsider with AAU recruiting.  He knows Scotty. He can trust Scotty and TJ to do it his way plus they understand what he is trying to teach on the court.  Just seems like new ideas or new blood is too much to consider Anderson doing.  He is who he is and will finish up here in some fashion that way. 

Exactly. Thurman may turn out to be a very good asst and recruiter, but there is no way he was the best available candidate for the job. No way at all.

[SONofHAM]

That they are, but I'm talking about acceptance. CMA was never accepted from the day he was hired. CBB was, therefore you are willing to "tolerate" more with one than the other because you have some emotional investment to it. For CMA it's a lot of hate and discontent and even when he was winning people still hated him and wanted him gone.

Man, your CBB vs CMA arguments are so annoying.  Thanks for derailing a basketball thread so you can shove your agenda down our throats.

[Pork Twain]

Exactly. Thurman may turn out to be a very good asst and recruiter, but there is no way he was the best available candidate for the job. No way at all.

You have to look at who is doing the hiring and who he can actually get.  At least there is the possibility of upside here.

[azhog10]

az-you are a very intelligent poster (although we disagree most of the time). but to say CMA was never accepted from the day he was hired, that is simply not true. I would say 90% of the fan base wanted CMA, and to most of them he can do no wrong.

I'm not saying more people didn't want him than those that wanted him. I'm saying the opposition to him was greater than maybe any other hire that Jeff Long has made and you don't have to go very far to read it.

[azhog10]

Man, your CBB vs CMA arguments are so annoying.  Thanks for derailing a basketball thread so you can shove your agenda down our throats.

As if any basketball thread isn't derailed before the third or fourth comment around here......

[azhog10]

I've said it before, I do not think it is Mike some of you get so worked up over, it is the fact that you still like Hog basketball, and most people do not. Most go from the bowl, to the NFL playoffs, to 2 months of waiting for spring practice, then they count the days to the start of fall football practice. That is what burns you.  And I get it, I love baseball, and I can't understand why very few people get excited about it, either college or mlb.

I like how you left off the Mississippi State debacle. That said I share some frustrations about the "style" of play.

[Pork Twain]

I'm not saying more people didn't want him than those that wanted him. I'm saying the opposition to him was greater than maybe any other hire that Jeff Long has made.

Yes because we did not want what we currently have.  He has NEVER shown that he can pull in the top talent needed to have a team compete for it all year-in and year-out.  He has never been at one location long enough to fully recruit his own players.  His abilities have been on display since he arrived here.  He has been unable to consistently pull in the needed talent and cannot hold on to what he actually gets.  Now we have an average coach, that has 3-4 players left from the last three classes and zero from the last one, getting paid top coach pay and he is very difficult to fire.

[Atlhogfan1]

I'm not saying more people didn't want him than those that wanted him. I'm saying the opposition to him was greater than maybe any other hire that Jeff Long has made and you don't have to go very far to read it.

We've never been more familiar with a coach before he was hired to be head coach and the hire was personal to so many.  Opinions were going to be strong from the beginning. 

[hogsanity]

I like how you left off the Mississippi State debacle. That said I share some frustrations about the "style" of play.

Yes, the basketball game at Starkville was a debacle.

[Kevin]

I'm not saying more people didn't want him than those that wanted him. I'm saying the opposition to him was greater than maybe any other hire that Jeff Long has made and you don't have to go very far to read it.

I think the opposition to cma was very small. I would say it is still very small