And the moral of the story is...

[RNC]

Don't take the helo pilot's word on the wind (no offense Craig).

Coming into NLR at night, AFB ATIS is out, but there's a military helo there testing a light array so I asked him which way the breeze was blowing.  He says "we came in on 23 but the ground said 18, not much either way".

No big deal, straight in on 35 if there's not much wind, since I'm coming from NOLA.

Realized I was borderline after touching down near the center stripes, but the slight gust that caused my left wing to float after I had already hit the brakes caused the loss of the two tires due to the bald spots I put on em .

[gotyacovered]

One of the reasons my CFII advocates full flap/full stall landings... When she's done flying--she's done.

Relatively cheap lesson, though.   

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

Some people in my profession make me want to punch myself in the nuts.  That being said, a rotary wing aircraft utilizing air vs. ground speed to determine wind direction does not take into account a crosswind component and the average pilot doesn't think that far ahead.  I'm assuming that's what happened in your situation.

That's why my bird has air data sensors that respond to the wind and let me know the azimuth and airspeed.  As long as you're in trim, it's money.  Now, as far as trying to convert true airspeed to indicated when I fly with a different type of aircraft.......

[RNC]

Some people in my profession make me want to punch myself in the nuts.  That being said, a rotary wing aircraft utilizing air vs. ground speed to determine wind direction does not take into account a crosswind component and the average pilot doesn't think that far ahead.  I'm assuming that's what happened in your situation.

That's why my bird has air data sensors that respond to the wind and let me know the azimuth and airspeed.  As long as you're in trim, it's money.  Now, as far as trying to convert true airspeed to indicated when I fly with a different type of aircraft.......

Yep, probably so.  I could've/should've gone around, when I saw the center stripes coming, but it was borderline so screw it, just brake it.  That didn't account for the little extra float, though.  It touched, I hit the brakes, and it floated back up for a second, then the tires were all but gone.

I can see how the difference in 5 kts and 10 kts isn't that much in a low and slow helo, but in a fixed wing that's flying light to start with (just me, one bag, and half the fuel gone), and that difference is quartering off the tail, that's an extra 1000 feet of ground roll.

[Hankweb]

What about 125.65? Why the AFB ATIS 7 miles NE and not check 125.65 the LIT ATIS 6 miles due south?
Also, and no criticism at all here just curious, if the copter had come in on 23 and "ground" had told them 18 why choose 36?

[gotyacovered]

Yep, probably so.  I could've/should've gone around, when I saw the center stripes coming, but it was borderline so screw it, just brake it.  That didn't account for the little extra float, though.  It touched, I hit the brakes, and it floated back up for a second, then the tires were all but gone.

I can see how the difference in 5 kts and 10 kts isn't that much in a low and slow helo, but in a fixed wing that's flying light to start with (just me, one bag, and half the fuel gone), and that difference is quartering off the tail, that's an extra 1000 feet of ground roll.

what landing config you use? (same as hank, no criticism, just curious)

[Ragnar Hogbrok]

Also, if it was a Blackhawk, they have tons of power and are pretty light.  They routinely (although it's frowned upon) land with a tail wind to an OGE hover.  I can't do that.  I'm way too heavy.

[RNC]

What about 125.65? Why the AFB ATIS 7 miles NE and not check 125.65 the LIT ATIS 6 miles due south?
Also, and no criticism at all here just curious, if the copter had come in on 23 and "ground" had told them 18 why choose 36?

The wind at KORK isn't typically that consistent, being on top of the mountain.  I've taxi'd to 35, seen it switch ~140 degrees, taxi all the way back to 17, only to see it shift again.  There are two runways in use better than half of the time due to that, so it's not uncommon to ask for a better opinion on the ground.  Everyone out there jokes about how even with 4 runways there's always a crosswind.  That said, 'not much wind' usually means 'pick whichever' and sort it out on final.

As I said I should've gone around when I saw the center stripes, but it was borderline and the runway has extra pavement on the end, so I went ahead and made the mistake, lol.

what landing config you use? (same as hank, no criticism, just curious)

Unless there's some burning reason not to always full flaps.

[gotyacovered]

Unless there's some burning reason not to always full flaps.

if i have 10kts+ direct xwind i go 20... anything less 40.

i find that my 20 landings get rusty faster than my 40, so when i shoot touch and goes or am out playing i always use 20 for the practice. also, for a stabilized instrument approach i will be using 20 so need to get practice.

[Hankweb]

Thanks for sharing RNC. I posted something on here that I did that wasn't so bright when I first started posting here and a guys reply made me feel like crap so hope asking you a question or two wasn't too awkward. As long as we aren't hurt and we change how we approach flying...we learn from the experience...a "safe" mistake is a great way to educate ourselves!
I've had 4 of those that have stayed with me and changed the way I do things, and I'm sure others that have stayed with me as well but not potentially catastrophic or at least potentially greatly damaging. And one of those involved two balded tires that left a skid mark as a reminder at CWS when I was based there and was determined to land at night with inoperative runway lights and about 100+ or so hours under my belt. Line up with Target (the store!), over the interstate, and set her down...nbd... I guess subconsciously avoiding the interstate and the electrical wires I stayed very high...and very long. Romping on those brakes near the taxiway got into my pocket for a couple of new tires!

[RNC]

if i have 10kts+ direct xwind i go 20... anything less 40.

i find that my 20 landings get rusty faster than my 40, so when i shoot touch and goes or am out playing i always use 20 for the practice. also, for a stabilized instrument approach i will be using 20 so need to get practice.

Well, cherokee 28 flaps only go to thirty and they're not nearly as effective as high wing Cessna flaps.  It's not the huge amount of drag you would get in a 182 or 172, more like a loss of 10 knots and a couple degrees nose up tendency, that's it.  Put it this way, it's easier in my plane to inadvertently run back north of the white arc with the flaps out than it is to inadvertently get too close to stall speed.

Thanks for sharing RNC. I posted something on here that I did that wasn't so bright when I first started posting here and a guys reply made me feel like crap so hope asking you a question or two wasn't too awkward. As long as we aren't hurt and we change how we approach flying...we learn from the experience...a "safe" mistake is a great way to educate ourselves!
I've had 4 of those that have stayed with me and changed the way I do things, and I'm sure others that have stayed with me as well but not potentially catastrophic or at least potentially greatly damaging. And one of those involved two balded tires that left a skid mark as a reminder at CWS when I was based there and was determined to land at night with inoperative runway lights and about 100+ or so hours under my belt. Line up with Target (the store!), over the interstate, and set her down...nbd... I guess subconsciously avoiding the interstate and the electrical wires I stayed very high...and very long. Romping on those brakes near the taxiway got into my pocket for a couple of new tires!

Haha, yep, I know all about lining up with the store at CWS, used to rent out there.  As I'm sure you know if you ever went there, KORK isn't easy to get in and out of particularly at night.  There's a restricted area literally a mile or less from the end of 35, the C130 base about 3 miles off of 5, and 17 runs straight at downtown LR.  It's pretty tight quarters and the wind never cooperates, being directly on top of that hill.

There was one upside to the whole episode, found and replaced some more redneck engineering from the previous owner.  Awhile back I was having brake issues and had the shop at KTKI take a look, they found homemade shims behind the pads, WTH?  Well the guys at NLR found the purpose of the shims, the rotors on there didn't belong to that plane, they were from a different model year, and were too thin.  No wonder they seemed soft...

[AR_dustoff]

Haha, yep, I know all about lining up with the store at CWS, used to rent out there.  As I'm sure you know if you ever went there, KORK isn't easy to get in and out of particularly at night.  There's a restricted area literally a mile or less from the end of 35, the C130 base about 3 miles off of 5, and 17 runs straight at downtown LR.  It's pretty tight quarters and the wind never cooperates, being directly on top of that hill.

The restricted areas are usually cold at night

If the "light array" they were testing looking like a big spotlight, it was probably a Lakota.  We have a wind indicator on it, and it's pretty accurate, but like you said, the winds change pretty often.

Btw, another confusing think for KORK is KRBM is 3 miles away, and it's runway is 04/22...you wouldn't believe how many airplanes we have land, taxi up, not say a word on our freq, read the side of the building, taxi back out, and fly away!!

[RNC]

Haha, yep I can believe it.

I have caught myself lining up on 4, thinking it was 5 at NLR, and saying "wait a minute....oops."

The more dangerous thing is looking out for Blackhawks when headed out west from NLR into the sun in the evening.  I've gotten fairly close to a few before seeing them.

[AR_dustoff]

We usually don't have too much trouble, we generally due only west traffic.  Our pattern is 200ft lower than KORK's too, so that "should" provide some separation.  I've had some folks fly right over me, but no close calls, or near misses...knock on wood!

[RNC]

Yep, the reason we're so low coming over is we have to call LR approach before 2000 feet, and if they're busy ya gotta stop your climb and wait on them to answer.