Flying to Wichita, KS

[GusMcRae]

Taking my wife and step-daughter up there to check out Friends University (possible scholarship offer) on Saturday. Looks like it's real close to ICT. Anyone frequent there? FBO? Avoid ICT altogether and fly into a different airport? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Flying Razorback]

I flew in to Wichita hundreds of times.  ICT can get busy in the late morning and mid afternoon but it's manageable.  The biggest thing about flying in to Wichita airport is the large amount of traffic.  There are many airports and I would study where they are before going.  You can build your SA bubble a little better as you hear people going in to land and take off at the various airports.

If you decide not to use ICT then Hutchinson Kansas, KHUT, is a good option I have also frequented.  Jabara would be another at the edge if the airspace.  McConnell, KIAB, should be quiet on the weekends.

[gotyacovered]

I would consider 1K1... My cousin lives in Great Bend and they frequent Stearman to go eat. Supposedly have a real good steak, but knowing my cousin... He wouldnt go there unless it was convenient.

[GusMcRae]

We should be arriving about 9:00am.  Probably shooting for leaving around 6:00 pm.

[GusMcRae]

Looking like marginal VFR for the arrival around 10:00 am.

[gotyacovered]

Looking like marginal VFR for the arrival around 10:00 am.

getting to you a little late, best of luck--be safe.

expect a full PIREP when you have time!

[GusMcRae]

It was 900' ceiling when we arrived, so I couldn't land at ICT.  I wound up having to cancel with them. I picked out a little airport close to where we needed to go, K32 "Riverside".  Vectored East to stay out of ICT airspace, and searched for a hole to get down through, we had been seeing a hole here and there, and everything I had checked said conditions were going to get better as the morning went on.  It was right at a 2 hr flight, and I left with full tanks, so I could have flown around much longer than our bladders would have allowed. 

Anyway, after flying around awhile, we found a hole, got underneath the ceiling and landed at Riverside. Then waited 45 min for a taxi to show up. By then it looked like it would have been VFR and fine to land at ICT.  Missed the opportunity to get another towered airport under my belt.
Another motivator to get this instrument ticket finished up.  Would have been a cinch for an IFR landing at ICT. Yingling FBO was just going to let us use a car.

Coach drove us back to Riverside after our visit and a late lunch. Departed about 3:45, departed to the east to avoid ICT airspace. Headwind going back, 2.5 hr.

And, looks like our girl is going to be a Friends U Falcon. 

[gotyacovered]

Great news on the college decision. Hate to hear the WX complicated for you. I am having to drive today, at least you got to fly

[GusMcRae]

Great news on the college decision. Hate to hear the WX complicated for you. I am having to drive today, at least you got to fly

Thanks. My annual is coming up. It would be nice to get through it with no major hiccups. I still need to get my AP operable again.

Hope they get you back in the air soon.

[RNC]

What's the story on the autopilot?

[GusMcRae]

What's the story on the autopilot?

I had it in the shop to be fixed in March of 2012.  A roll pin that holds the gear onto the servo motor had worked its way out. Easy fix, just labor and a roll pin. Anyway, it worked for about 3 months, and has the exact symptoms as it did. Sitting in the hangar, master switch on, master av switch on, turn on ap with the heading bug up to the top, when I roll the heading bug L or R, you can hear the servo kick on, but it doesn't move the ailrons. Roll it back up to top center and it goes silent. Not sure why it keeps losing that roll pin. Maybe holes wallered out. Hoping they can find some way to saftey lock it in place.

[GusMcRae]

Headed back to Wichita, KS tomorrow.  Hopefully will be landing at ICT and using Yingling this trip.  Weather supposed to be fine, other than the heat, high DA, and a strong headwind for the trip back home.

We are all under 1 roof now by the way, so I don't have to fly 1.3 hours just to load up the family.  I will be going over that way occasionally to see the in-laws and such, so I will take advantage of the cheap fuel when I do, but I will miss the regular fill-ups of cheap fuel they had over there at SWI. 

[gotyacovered]

Headed back to Wichita, KS tomorrow.  Hopefully will be landing at ICT and using Yingling this trip.  Weather supposed to be fine, other than the heat, high DA, and a strong headwind for the trip back home.

We are all under 1 roof now by the way, so I don't have to fly 1.3 hours just to load up the family.  I will be going over that way occasionally to see the in-laws and such, so I will take advantage of the cheap fuel when I do, but I will miss the regular fill-ups of cheap fuel they had over there at SWI. 

sounds fun... the appropriate VFR altitude over 6500 should be under 70... coming back from mtn home, ar a few days ago it was 62 at 8.5

let us know how it goes, its been dead in here!!!

[GusMcRae]

sounds fun... the appropriate VFR altitude over 6500 should be under 70... coming back from mtn home, ar a few days ago it was 62 at 8.5

let us know how it goes, its been dead in here!!!

It sure has. 

[gotyacovered]

It sure has. 

i have flown quite a bit lately... ill get caught up at some point!

[RNC]

Yeah good flying weather makes this place a ghost town, lol.

I figure that's a good thing, better than talking about how one of us plowed into a water tower.

[GusMcRae]

Yeah good flying weather makes this place a ghost town, lol.

I figure that's a good thing, better than talking about how one of us plowed into a water tower.

It may be good weather where y'all are, but the heat, high DA, and the wind blowing day and night have not made for very good flying conditions in my part of the world.

Did I miss a post about someone plowing into a water tower?

PIREP on my trip to KICT yesterday.

Left about 9:00 AM.  Flew at 7500', temp was about 68-70.  Decent tail wind kept my GS between about 130 and 145 the entire way.  Arrived about 10:30.  Arrival all went well, they vectored me right in to a very wide downwind to 19L, tower had a Citation that was behind me go even wider down wind, passed me up and landed way ahead of me.  Pretty busy, but it was all very clear, there was a couple of times when I don't think I got all of the read back complete, but I guess it was good enough.  19L put us on a very short taxi to Yingling Aviation.  They are a top notch, first class outfit.  I highly recommend them.  They allowed us to take their courtesy car (Chevy Malibu), left there with it at about 11:00, told them we might have it until close to 6 or 6:30, so if that would be a problem we could just rent a car.  They had told me the day before that if the car was not available that they could get us a rental pretty pronto.....
to be continued......

[RNC]

Nah that's just my joke every time I see someone leaving that I know. 

"Watch out for water towers, they're in the same spot that they were yesterday"

[GusMcRae]

... continuing....
They said no problem on keeping the car that long.  So we ate lunch, got to the college plenty early for the 12:30 start time.  Sat through the college registration process for the daughter and got lots of stuff taken care of in regard to enrollment, etc...  Fast forward, ate a bite of supper, then back to Yingling.  Didn't take them long to get my plane pulled around. I turned in the keys to the car and paid for my fuel I had them put in, bathroom trip for all, and on out to load up for a hot time in the plane prior to getting up to cooler air. 
I always tend to be more intimidated by the landing at a towered airport than I am the takeoff, and always seem to have more trouble getting the right frequencies called in the right sequence when taking off. 
Started off calling ground first, should have called departure first, departure got my intentions and referred me straight to the tower.  I should have reviewed towered airport procedure again before this trip.
Anyway, while sitting at the holding area next in line to take off and waiting for a couple of other planes to land, I sat there a bit longer than needed, thinking that tower was going to tell me I was clear for take off, no one was behind me.  When I finally asked if he was waiting on me, or if I was waiting on him.  Of course he said he was waiting on me to tell him I was ready.  So, we got that all cleared up and we took off and came on home.  Luckily we avioided a headwind at 8,500', (about 65 degrees at that FL) because we stayed around 125 to 135 kts GS all the way home.  About an hour and 50 minute trip home.  All good, great to build on my towered airport experience. 

[GusMcRae]

I have to share another little side story.  While sitting there waiting to take off, the 2 or 3 planes that I was waiting on to land, one was a Cessna 310, one was a KingAir, and evidently the 310 was behind the KingAir, but actually could have overtaken him and landed ahead of him.  The 310 pilot called in and said that he was gaining on the KingAir, so he would extend his base leg or something for additional spacing (I wasn't really paying much attention to what he was saying because I was going through my pre-take off procedure, but I heard him go on to say something about not wanting to hurt the KingAir pilot's feelings by landing in front of him in a 310.  Tower ATC laughed.  The KingAir landed, and I looked out to my left to see where the 310 was,,, and I see this plane out there pretty low, in a pretty steep bank to the right, then leveled and immediately a hard bank to the left beyond where he needed to be in order to be lined up with 19L.  I told my passengers "that guy is about to land right here".  Sure enough, he gets lined up with another steep bank, and comes on in and lands. 

The Tower ATC comes on after telling the 310 pilot what taxiway to take and commends him on his S-turn upon approach.  310 pilot comes on and says, "it was really a U-turn, but my passengers were having a good time with all that".
ATC comes back and says, "well, whatever letter of the alphabet kind of a turn it was, it was impressive". 

I was shocked that he was being commended as opposed to getting ripped a new one for a turn like that, as close as he was to 19R upon extending his base turn beyond being even with 19L.  And I think 19R was being used.  Anyway, it was kind of entertaining to watch and hear the exchanges.

[RNC]

There should be better documentation and simplified ATC training info, I think.  Mainly because procedures are not consistent.

At KTKI there's light traffic and the tower is pretty laid back, we joke back and forth with them and the same guy is on both frequencies a lot of the time so it doesn't matter if you switch to ground or not.

KGGG on the other hand is more rigid despite being of comparable size and activity, simply due to the fact that the same folks are having to handle approach and departure vectoring, whereas at KTKI they aren't.

How to know that?  Go there, there is no other way to know.

Either way if you want you could always fly into KTKI for touch and goes, there's a lot of students around so they are patient and laid back in the tower, on the other hand they are under the DFW bravo so you get time with DFW approach who are busy like whoa and don't have a whole lot of patience, lol.

Biggest thing is learning when to speak so as to not step on someone else, which only comes from flying in busy airspace a a lot.

[Flying Razorback]

Did you hear any "Vandy"s on the radio or see any of the Air Force Beech 400 "T-1" jets up there?  Most days we'd have 4 or 5 full stop at Yingling and we always had aircraft in the pattern there in the morning and in the radar pattern in the afternoon.

[GusMcRae]

Did you hear any "Vandy"s on the radio or see any of the Air Force Beech 400 "T-1" jets up there?  Most days we'd have 4 or 5 full stop at Yingling and we always had aircraft in the pattern there in the morning and in the radar pattern in the afternoon.

I did hear them talking to some military planes and such, but none of them were landing or taking off when I was.
Did not see any.
When that 310 was doing his maneuvers for spacing, I thought that might have been a military plane, until he got close enough for me to see it up close, and I put 2 and 2 together on what I'd been hearing on the radio.

I was passed off to Vance Military airspace to and from.

[Flying Razorback]

Yeah I know the area very well.  I have thousands of touch and goes and landings between Wichita ICT, Hutchinson HUT, and McConnell AFB there in the Wichita control area.  And done many a steep turn and stalls in the Vance airspace.  I miss it sometimes, the plains grow on you after years of isolation there.

[gotyacovered]

Yeah I know the area very well.  I have thousands of touch and goes and landings between Wichita ICT, Hutchinson HUT, and McConnell AFB there in the Wichita control area.  And done many a steep turn and stalls in the Vance airspace.  I miss it sometimes, the plains grow on you after years of isolation there.

the plains grow on me after flying over the Ouachita Mountains all the time

[GusMcRae]

Have not flown other than test flight after annual since going to KS back on 6/26.  I'll be flying to Brady Texas tomorrow, then on Sat flying back to Wichita, KS, return on Sun.  Weather looking nice for flying Sat and Sun.  Should rack up about 8-10 hours or so by the end of the weekend.

Col James Jabara Airport (AAO) has been recommended to me by a friend who has fairly frequent trips into Wichita.  I'm thinking about trying it.  It will be about a 15-20 drive to where we need to go in Wichita.  Wife and daughter driving up Fri to get her moved into the dorm, so transportation to and from is covered.   
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. 
If not AAO, was planning on just going into ICT and using Yingling again.

[Flying Razorback]

Have not flown other than test flight after annual since going to KS back on 6/26.  I'll be flying to Brady Texas tomorrow, then on Sat flying back to Wichita, KS, return on Sun.  Weather looking nice for flying Sat and Sun.  Should rack up about 8-10 hours or so by the end of the weekend.

Col James Jabara Airport (AAO) has been recommended to me by a friend who has fairly frequent trips into Wichita.  I'm thinking about trying it.  It will be about a 15-20 drive to where we need to go in Wichita.  Wife and daughter driving up Fri to get her moved into the dorm, so transportation to and from is covered.   
Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. 
If not AAO, was planning on just going into ICT and using Yingling again.

I have not flown in to Jabara but have flown probably a thousand landings at McConnell AFB right there.  Read in on the airspace and know where the Class C for McConnell is.  They have a pretty active pattern in the morning from about 9 AM-noon most days.  After that it gets pretty calm.  Right in a row on the same 01/19 runway alignment are 3 larger runways.  You have the two of McConnell AFB, then Beech's factory airfield, and then Col Jabara.  Just know that Jabara is the furthest north but be aware that as you move in for a north flow landing, you're going to be on the departure path for McConnell AFB, Cessna field, and Beech's field all right in a row.  Landing south flow at Jabara isn't nearly as bad, you just have to watch out for any aircraft on approach in to McConnell.  The Localizer course goes right over the top and they should be at 3000' MSL by then driving in to the final approach fix.  Taking off south flow out of Jabara I would get your turn to the east early and clear the airspace in case things line up right and someone departs the other two fields at the same time.  Not really a big deal, just keep an ear out and be aware of it. 

I would say it's safest to get below 3000 MSL before you pass by McConnell while heading north.  Their pattern is 3000 MSL and they stay high off the perch while landing south on 19L/19R to avoid any traffic coming in or out of Beech field. 

[GusMcRae]

I have not flown in to Jabara but have flown probably a thousand landings at McConnell AFB right there.  Read in on the airspace and know where the Class C for McConnell is.  They have a pretty active pattern in the morning from about 9 AM-noon most days.  After that it gets pretty calm.  Right in a row on the same 01/19 runway alignment are 3 larger runways.  You have the two of McConnell AFB, then Beech's factory airfield, and then Col Jabara.  Just know that Jabara is the furthest north but be aware that as you move in for a north flow landing, you're going to be on the departure path for McConnell AFB, Cessna field, and Beech's field all right in a row.  Landing south flow at Jabara isn't nearly as bad, you just have to watch out for any aircraft on approach in to McConnell.  The Localizer course goes right over the top and they should be at 3000' MSL by then driving in to the final approach fix.  Taking off south flow out of Jabara I would get your turn to the east early and clear the airspace in case things line up right and someone departs the other two fields at the same time.  Not really a big deal, just keep an ear out and be aware of it. 

I would say it's safest to get below 3000 MSL before you pass by McConnell while heading north.  Their pattern is 3000 MSL and they stay high off the perch while landing south on 19L/19R to avoid any traffic coming in or out of Beech field.

Good info.  Thanks.

[gotyacovered]

that is great info. well done.

[GusMcRae]

Well, I'm changing my mind.  ICT is close to the hotel we're staying, and Yingling has self serve 100LL for $5.62, and only charge $10/night to tie down.  Weather is looking good for VFR flying tomorrow and Sunday. 
AAO is $6.93 for 100LL.  I didn't even call to see what it cost to tie down overnight. 
Not sure why my buddy likes it so well.

I do appreciate that info about flying in and out of AAO.  Sounds like it has a lot of potential to be hectic. 

[gotyacovered]

Well, I'm changing my mind.  ICT is close to the hotel we're staying, and Yingling has self serve 100LL for $5.62, and only charge $10/night to tie down.  Weather is looking good for VFR flying tomorrow and Sunday. 
AAO is $6.93 for 100LL.  I didn't even call to see what it cost to tie down overnight. 
Not sure why my buddy likes it so well.

I do appreciate that info about flying in and out of AAO.  Sounds like it has a lot of potential to be hectic. 

I would probably do the same thing... That $5.62 fuel/$10 parking says one thing: we don't mind GA.... Come on.

[GusMcRae]

Another good trip to Wichita, KS and good experience at Yingling.  KC Center did not pass me off to Vance airspace this time.  However, I was flying at 7500, and they told me that I would have to fly at a lower alt if I wanted them to stay with me, b/c the MOA was active.  Was dealing with some clouds and layers, so I asked if I had to go all the way down to 5500, and they let me go down to 6500 or below.  I stayed right at 6500 (kind of weird being at the wrong alt) for awhile and later decided to go on down to 5500 for the rest of the trip.  ICT was not busy at my arrival, tower cleared me to land when I was about 5 miles West of the field on downwind.  That was another thing, I was going to cut across to the east for a left pattern downwind because I was coming in way out to the West (VOR station is out to the NW) and last time that's what they had me do, set up for a left pattern.  They had me come in for a Right pattern, and like I said, cleared me to land way early, and it just seems strange not reporting your position like you do at a non towered airport.  2 open canopy bi-planes (maybe Waco's) were just cranking up to depart from Yingling when we arrived, definitely show plane material.  Failed to get a picture.  And they took off in tandemn, pretty cool.  Wife and daughter had other obligations at our arrival time so we used the courtesy car to get to the campus and took it back at our next break. 
Lots of tears yesterday when our daughter dropped us off,,, long good byes, etc...
ICT was a little busier at departure time.  I was a little more prepared and I think I got it all right.  Didn't feel like a dummy as I did the time before with the sequence in which to contact the proper frequency.  Just gotta do it more to get more comfortable.
Looking forward to many more trips up there for visits and ballgames.
There is a sweet 206 parked in the hangar that is visible from inside the Yingling terminal through the windows.  Hangar and all planes in there are spotless.  Cleaner than a hospital operating room in there.  I'm sure it would take about 10 planes like mine to equal the value of that one. 

[gotyacovered]

Another good trip to Wichita, KS and good experience at Yingling.  KC Center did not pass me off to Vance airspace this time.  However, I was flying at 7500, and they told me that I would have to fly at a lower alt if I wanted them to stay with me, b/c the MOA was active.  Was dealing with some clouds and layers, so I asked if I had to go all the way down to 5500, and they let me go down to 6500 or below.  I stayed right at 6500 (kind of weird being at the wrong alt) for awhile and later decided to go on down to 5500 for the rest of the trip.  ICT was not busy at my arrival, tower cleared me to land when I was about 5 miles West of the field on downwind.  That was another thing, I was going to cut across to the east for a left pattern downwind because I was coming in way out to the West (VOR station is out to the NW) and last time that's what they had me do, set up for a left pattern.  They had me come in for a Right pattern, and like I said, cleared me to land way early, and it just seems strange not reporting your position like you do at a non towered airport.  2 open canopy bi-planes (maybe Waco's) were just cranking up to depart from Yingling when we arrived, definitely show plane material.  Failed to get a picture.  And they took off in tandemn, pretty cool.  Wife and daughter had other obligations at our arrival time so we used the courtesy car to get to the campus and took it back at our next break. 
Lots of tears yesterday when our daughter dropped us off,,, long good byes, etc...
ICT was a little busier at departure time.  I was a little more prepared and I think I got it all right.  Didn't feel like a dummy as I did the time before with the sequence in which to contact the proper frequency.  Just gotta do it more to get more comfortable.
Looking forward to many more trips up there for visits and ballgames.
There is a sweet 206 parked in the hangar that is visible from inside the Yingling terminal through the windows.  Hangar and all planes in there are spotless.  Cleaner than a hospital operating room in there.  I'm sure it would take about 10 planes like mine to equal the value of that one. 

haha.

i want my garage to look like that... floors and all.

[GusMcRae]

haha.

i want my garage to look like that... floors and all.

I'd like to have about a 3-plane hangar that looked like that, with planes worthy of such a resting place. 

[gotyacovered]

I'd like to have about a 3-plane hangar that looked like that, with planes worthy of such a resting place. 

i bet that covering is expensive, but i want some.