Question after introductory flight today

[jmb1973]

I took my introductory flight today. Everything went spectacular and I must say I am already addicted. (Instructor talked me through taxi, takeoff, a 45 minute flight, and landing).

My question is.....What is the going rate for flight instruction for a private pilot's license?

My instructor charges $248 an hour. This includes Instructor fees, plane rental, and fuel. Seems a bit steep opposed to what I was led to believe from others.

Any help is appreciated. I live in Fort Smith, so if anyone has recommendations for flight instructors or what kind of pricing I should expect please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

[Pistol Pete]

I took my introductory flight today. Everything went spectacular and I must say I am already addicted. (Instructor talked me through taxi, takeoff, a 45 minute flight, and landing).

My question is.....What is the going rate for flight instruction for a private pilot's license?

My instructor charges $248 an hour. This includes Instructor fees, plane rental, and fuel. Seems a bit steep opposed to what I was led to believe from others.

Any help is appreciated. I live in Fort Smith, so if anyone has recommendations for flight instructors or what kind of pricing I should expect please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

What type of airplane are we talking about?

[Pistol Pete]

I think most airplanes rent for $110 for a Cessna 150, to $135 or so for a 172. That should include fuel. Instructors should charge around $40, maybe a little more.

[jmb1973]

Cessna 172

[Pistol Pete]

Cessna 172

I'd say $175/hr should cover everything! Unless we're talking about a new, really nicely equipped 172... but it shouldn't cost what you mentioned.

[jmb1973]

As we say in the car business "just got high grossed. "

[GusMcRae]

I paid $50/hr for the POS C 150, $50/hr for the instructor, and I paid for the fuel (roughly $25/hr), this was 2 yrs ago. 

[jmb1973]

Looks like I need to shop around for some more reasonable pricing. I don't mind paying for good service, but from what I'm seeing I am almost double what others have paid.

[Pistol Pete]

I paid $50/hr for the POS C 150, $50/hr for the instructor, and I paid for the fuel (roughly $25/hr), this was 2 yrs ago. 

I think Sparrow Aviation charges $90/hr wet here in a POS 152. I've seen instructors charge from $35 to $50

[RNC]

Here you go...

http://www.fsmflyingclub.org/aircraft.shtml

These clubs exist due to a loophole in the FAA regs.  A plane rented to the public for profit must go through 100 hour inspections in addition to annual inspections (lots more downtime and expense).  If the plane is operated by a private club/group, they are technically not renting to the public, they're privately operated within the group, so they get around the 100 hour inspection requirement that way.

The above club seems like a good deal.  106 dollars an hour for a 180hp 172 with a Garmin 530 in it is more than fair, a little on the cheap side actually.  Dues to join look to be 150 up front and 60 per month, which is in line with what rental clubs charge typically.  87 dollars an hour for the 160hp one with a KLN35 is, well, pretty damn cheap.  The dues will cover insurance as well, usually the way it works is if you have an at fault incident you are responsible for the deductible on the plane (just like a car deductible) and the club insurance pays for the rest.

The best deal in Little Rock with multiple places competing on rentals is a 160hp 172 or a Cherokee 180, neither of which have a moving map GPS (the 172 has no GPS at all) for 100 dollars an hour.

Call that club, no one else will likely beat those rental prices.

[Pistol Pete]

Here you go...

http://www.fsmflyingclub.org/aircraft.shtml

These clubs exist due to a loophole in the FAA regs.  A plane rented to the public for profit must go through 100 hour inspections in addition to annual inspections (lots more downtime and expense).  If the plane is operated by a private club/group, they are technically not renting to the public, they're privately operated within the group, so they get around the 100 hour inspection requirement that way.

The above club seems like a good deal.  106 dollars an hour for a 180hp 172 with a Garmin 530 in it is more than fair, a little on the cheap side actually.  Dues to join look to be 150 up front and 60 per month, which is in line with what rental clubs charge typically.  87 dollars an hour for the 160hp one with a KLN35 is, well, pretty damn cheap.  The dues will cover insurance as well, usually the way it works is if you have an at fault incident you are responsible for the deductible on the plane (just like a car deductible) and the club insurance pays for the rest.

The best deal in Little Rock with multiple places competing on rentals is a 160hp 172 or a Cherokee 180, neither of which have a moving map GPS (the 172 has no GPS at all) for 100 dollars an hour.

Call that club, no one else will likely beat those rental prices.

Wow! Those are some really good prices! I didn't look at the page, but I guess those rates are wet... seem extra cheap to me!
There are lots of benefits to clubs. I like the benefits of owning!!!

[RNC]

Yep says they are.  Figure if you fly once a week the 160hp one would add up to 102 an hour.  That's cheap flyin, from a rental perspective.

[jmb1973]

Thanks for all the input guys. I actually lucked out yesterday. Took my dog to the vet for shots and come to find out my vet is not only an instructor, but is also on the board for the Fort Smith Flying Club.  By paying in bulk he dropped it down to $150 an hour plus my club dues which are minimal. ($60 a month).  Im going to do about three hours a week of training and then when I get close to my check flight I'm going to take a week of vacation and fly as often as possible that week. Can't remember the last time I was this excited about anything!

[GusMcRae]

Thanks for all the input guys. I actually lucked out yesterday. Took my dog to the vet for shots and come to find out my vet is not only an instructor, but is also on the board for the Fort Smith Flying Club.  By paying in bulk he dropped it down to $150 an hour plus my club dues which are minimal. ($60 a month).  Im going to do about three hours a week of training and then when I get close to my check flight I'm going to take a week of vacation and fly as often as possible that week. Can't remember the last time I was this excited about anything!

Good job jmb.  Glad you found a cheaper option, it's high enough even when you find a bargain.  You will be surprised how many people you will run into that are pilots, some that you already know, but had no idea they flew.
I was approaching 49 years old when I lost a 46 year old friend due to a stroke.  His death stirred something in me to pursue my desire to learn to fly on a long drive home from his funeral in Ft Stockton, Texas.  Once I took the initial step, I never dreamed I would find something, at the age of almost 50, that I would be so excited about and want to learn so much about. 
Too bad I didn't apply myself like this in college.  My GPA would've been soooooo much better.

[gotyacovered]

Good job jmb.  Glad you found a cheaper option, it's high enough even when you find a bargain.  You will be surprised how many people you will run into that are pilots, some that you already know, but had no idea they flew.
I was approaching 49 years old when I lost a 46 year old friend due to a stroke.  His death stirred something in me to pursue my desire to learn to fly on a long drive home from his funeral in Ft Stockton, Texas.  Once I took the initial step, I never dreamed I would find something, at the age of almost 50, that I would be so excited about and want to learn so much about. 
Too bad I didn't apply myself like this in college.  My GPA would've been soooooo much better.

If you want any advice from someone who just started myself (9/2011) and have accumulated more than 250hrs since... Take the week off on the front end. Get your dual time over quick. There are several challenges to this but if its possible it will be much quicker from start to finish. I started on 9/5, solo'd 9/9, got all my dual time in and dealt with solo FAR requirements, weather delays and scheduling issues with my examiner from October thru Feb 5th when I passed my check ride. I realize that may not be possible, but give it a shot. I am doing the same thing on my instrument rating. 

[RNC]

Yeah having the instructor turn you loose to solo is the first big step, and should happen within 12-15 hours.  As soon as he's satisfied you can land on your own without killing yourself and any innocent bystanders, you'll be well on your way.

In addition, go ahead and start working on the written test.  You can buy study guides (print or video), study the books yourself, or go to a weekend 'boot camp' to learn all you need to learn for that.  Due to one being nearby I took the boot camp route at American Flyers in Dallas, but it depends on how you learn best.  Better to do that early, there are things in all that material that you need to learn for planning, weather, cross country travel, etc.

With that stuff in your brain you can work a lot more on your own.  Pick up XPlane or MS Flight Simulator and you can do mock cross countries on your computer at home for free.  While not useful for learning the feel of handling the plane, simulators are good tools for practicing procedures and what not.

[Pistol Pete]

Thanks for all the input guys. I actually lucked out yesterday. Took my dog to the vet for shots and come to find out my vet is not only an instructor, but is also on the board for the Fort Smith Flying Club.  By paying in bulk he dropped it down to $150 an hour plus my club dues which are minimal. ($60 a month).  Im going to do about three hours a week of training and then when I get close to my check flight I'm going to take a week of vacation and fly as often as possible that week. Can't remember the last time I was this excited about anything!

Sounds great! My advice would be to see it COMPLETELY through NOW! It won't get any cheaper in the future, and you'll get to see the world from a viewpoint that few get to see and control. There's also a huge amount of satisfaction in the entire process, and people will respect the commitment/goal you've achieved. I'm fortunate enough to have a brother purchase an airplane with me, and the freedom to fly when and where I desire (depending on weather) is like nothing else.

[GusMcRae]

In addition, go ahead and start working on the written test.  You can buy study guides (print or video), study the books yourself, or go to a weekend 'boot camp' to learn all you need to learn for that.  Due to one being nearby I took the boot camp route at American Flyers in Dallas, but it depends on how you learn best.  Better to do that early, there are things in all that material that you need to learn for planning, weather, cross country travel, etc.

My CFI recommended that I just buy the pre-test study guide (the blue book is the private pilot guide, sell them at most FBOs), a plotter, and an E6B, work your way through the guide, highlight the correct answers, learn how to do the calculations required, and just keep going back through the book studying the correct answers.  Get someone to give you an expired sectional chart and get familiar with the airport info and the legends.   
Then go to Sporty's website, go to their free study buddy FAA tests, and take the one for private pilot.  You will have to register with them, create a user name and password, but no charge.  When you can make in the 80's 2 or 3 times in a row, you're ready to go pay the $150 and take the test. 

I basically did the same thing to pass my written instrument a couple of months ago. 

This method worked for me, and is about the most inexpensive way to go. 

[Pistol Pete]

Good job jmb.  Glad you found a cheaper option, it's high enough even when you find a bargain.  You will be surprised how many people you will run into that are pilots, some that you already know, but had no idea they flew.
I was approaching 49 years old when I lost a 46 year old friend due to a stroke.  His death stirred something in me to pursue my desire to learn to fly on a long drive home from his funeral in Ft Stockton, Texas.  Once I took the initial step, I never dreamed I would find something, at the age of almost 50, that I would be so excited about and want to learn so much about. 
Too bad I didn't apply myself like this in college.  My GPA would've been soooooo much better.

It's odd how events shape ones priorities. Both my parents are still living and have every penny they ever saved... now they are too old to enjoy the fruits of their labor, mom has Alzheimer's. We moved them to central Arkansas in January so they would be close to us 4 brothers and medical care...

Anyway, I'm not going to be elderly, look back on my life and say "I wish I would have..." I'd rather say, "I wish I hadn't done that."
I have my bucket list of things I want to do/accomplish with the remainder of my healthy life (I'm 51), I think some call this a mid-life crisis. I'm knocking this list out methodically... and not stopping.

[jmb1973]

Yeah having the instructor turn you loose to solo is the first big step, and should happen within 12-15 hours.  As soon as he's satisfied you can land on your own without killing yourself and any innocent bystanders, you'll be well on your way.

In addition, go ahead and start working on the written test.  You can buy study guides (print or video), study the books yourself, or go to a weekend 'boot camp' to learn all you need to learn for that.  Due to one being nearby I took the boot camp route at American Flyers in Dallas, but it depends on how you learn best.  Better to do that early, there are things in all that material that you need to learn for planning, weather, cross country travel, etc.

With that stuff in your brain you can work a lot more on your own.  Pick up XPlane or MS Flight Simulator and you can do mock cross countries on your computer at home for free.  While not useful for learning the feel of handling the plane, simulators are good tools for practicing procedures and what not.

I actually bought the student kit, as well as the e-kit from ASA about a month and a half ago. I've been studying about 3 nights a week for and hour, hour and a half at a time. Going through the book, highlighting points of interest,  and taking notes. Additionally I bought a testing app for my iPad so Ive been practicing on that. I'm a study nerd, so i'm pretty confident about the ground test.

[jmb1973]

Sounds great! My advice would be to see it COMPLETELY through NOW! It won't get any cheaper in the future, and you'll get to see the world from a viewpoint that few get to see and control. There's also a huge amount of satisfaction in the entire process, and people will respect the commitment/goal you've achieved. I'm fortunate enough to have a brother purchase an airplane with me, and the freedom to fly when and where I desire (depending on weather) is like nothing else.

I plan on fast tracking the process as much as time allows. My new instructor seems fairly flexible and willing to work with me. He even recommended flying in blocks (2-3) hours on a Saturday to make sure I get things down pat. I will complete this. First flight created an insatiable addiction.

[gotyacovered]

I actually bought the student kit, as well as the e-kit from ASA about a month and a half ago. I've been studying about 3 nights a week for and hour, hour and a half at a time. Going through the book, highlighting points of interest,  and taking notes. Additionally I bought a testing app for my iPad so Ive been practicing on that. I'm a study nerd, so i'm pretty confident about the ground test.

You didn't specify the actual app you bought but I highly recommend the Dauntless line. The stacking ability is well worth it. I made a 100 on my written and give all credit to dauntless. I am using it for instrument right now and plan on making a other 100. Think it's about $35-40. It also comes with an oral prep guide you can customize to your plane.

You didn't indicate you saw my post, but I want to reiterate the week off work on the front end rather than the backend, if possible.

[jmb1973]

You didn't specify the actual app you bought but I highly recommend the Dauntless line. The stacking ability is well worth it. I made a 100 on my written and give all credit to dauntless. I am using it for instrument right now and plan on making a other 100. Think it's about $35-40. It also comes with an oral prep guide you can customize to your plane.

You didn't indicate you saw my post, but I want to reiterate the week off work on the front end rather than the backend, if possible.

I'll check out the dauntless App. The one I bought is from ASA "Pilot Prepware" it was $9.99.

I did see your post about the week on the front end. I agree with your logic, however the timing may not work out for me. I wont be able to take a vacation until July, so according to my preliminary schedule that would put me at about the 20-25 hour mark if all goes according to plan. ( yes I know, probably won't go according to plan.) Regardless I think a week of intense flying will stengthen me tremendously.

[gotyacovered]

Regardless I think a week of intense flying will stengthen me tremendously.

Without a doubt. Good luck and make sure you get some rental insurance. Look forward to following your progress.

[jmb1973]

Got 3.9 hours in this week. Having so much fun. Can't fly again until Tuesday because of scheduling and I am already missing being in the air.

[RNC]

Good deal, couple more weeks like that and you outta be solo ready.

[jmb1973]

Really enjoyed imminent stalls and slow flight. I was really surprised by the difference in handling characteristics for slow flight. Biggest challenge so far is the "death grip". Going to use the pencil in the fingers trick next time out to relax the grip and keep my right hand free for the throttle.

[gotyacovered]

Really enjoyed imminent stalls and slow flight. I was really surprised by the difference in handling characteristics for slow flight. Biggest challenge so far is the "death grip". Going to use the pencil in the fingers trick next time out to relax the grip and keep my right hand free for the throttle.

trim is your friend!

once you figure out how to trim good you wont even feel the need to hold on but with a couple fingers.

what are you flying?

[Pistol Pete]

Really enjoyed imminent stalls and slow flight. I was really surprised by the difference in handling characteristics for slow flight. Biggest challenge so far is the "death grip". Going to use the pencil in the fingers trick next time out to relax the grip and keep my right hand free for the throttle.

I get that death grip when I'm in choppy air. Another reason altitude is my friend.

[RNC]

Don't know of anywhere in the northern half of AR that isn't choppy below ~5k.

[jmb1973]

trim is your friend!

once you figure out how to trim good you wont even feel the need to hold on but with a couple fingers.

what are you flying?

Cessna 172, with 160 HP

[RNC]

Yeah you can fight a 172 without trimming it with a light load but when you get into bigger planes with a bigger payload they're just too heavy.

I have to wrestle mine off the ground if the trim is a hair forward of neutral, and I'm only ~600 pounds heavier than that 172.