Posters piling on during a down year.

[dsims2k3]

Nothing more and nothing less.

[Atlhogfan1]

 

[TomBigBeeHog]

Nothing more and nothing less.

I am really impressed with how this team competes despite its limitations. I know some are taking the opportunity to fire more daggers now and some were very persistent critics last year during a very good season. Smh.

Still, I like where we are headed overall as a program. I believe we will win again at a high level but CMA will never ever silence the level of criticism he will receive at Arkansas from a small persistent group, no matter what heights he takes this program to and he would never face this level of criticism at any place other than Arkansas.

[Deep Shoat]

I am really impressed with how this team competes despite its limitations. I know some are taking the opportunity to fire more daggers now and some were very persistent critics last year during a very good season. Smh.

Still, I like where we are headed overall as a program. I believe we will win again at a high level but CMA will never ever silence the level of criticism he will receive at Arkansas from a small persistent group, no matter what heights he takes this program to and he would never face this level of criticism at any place other than Arkansas.

Bull.

If he wins consistently, and I mean deep tournament runs, he will placate almost everyone. 

And you're right.  At most places he would already be looking at a make or break for next season.  Here, he won't face that for another 5 years, minimum.

[Pork Twain]

I know I just started posting on Hogville earlier this year, for the first time ever, because we were having a bad year.

/sarcasm

Strangely enough, a majority of the more vocally displeased with MA are some of the more seasoned posters on here.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Bull.

If he wins consistently, and I mean deep tournament runs, he will placate almost everyone. 

And you're right.  At most places he would already be looking at a make or break for next season.  Here, he won't face that for another 5 years, minimum.

If he was coming off a 27 win season and the best record in twenty years fans wouldn't be discussing replacing him at other schools because they still hated his mentor or felt they had to take sides between him and Frank.

[Sed76]

Not like this is the first down year in ages. If so then yeah, it would be ridiculous.

[dsims2k3]

Bull.

If he wins consistently, and I mean deep tournament runs, he will placate almost everyone. 

And you're right.  At most places he would already be looking at a make or break for next season.  Here, he won't face that for another 5 years, minimum.

I bet Mizzou is certainly missing him.

[TomBigBeeHog]

Most reasonable posters can see that this would have been a tournament team if not for a string of events that occurred. This would have been two years in a row in the tourney and looking at three straight with what we have coming next year.

Furthermore, lets start making the tournament regularly the expectation instead of demanding deep runs as the bar. Those will come when we start getting in the tournament pretty much every year and that's what's coming. Still, there will be those who will continue to raise the bar. Nolan had people question his coaching ability in the middle of back to back appearances in the NCAA title game. So Arkansas has a small segment of Arkansas fans (the T & A crowd that Nolan referred to) who will always resent CMA and any sign of a stumble brings them out in full force.

[Atlhogfan1]

Somewhat familiar argument:

Excuses are tools of incompotence used to build monuments of nothingness. Pelphey was brought in to build upon what Stan Heath had already done. Which was get past the first round of the NCAA tourney. True enough he did so in his first year, but it was against an Indiana program that was having major issues. Also, those werent even his players. After that point he was supposed to roload. Has he done that? No. Has he rebuilt? No. Is the program more stable now than before he came? No. If he had done his job, his roster would look like this: Fortson/Welsh
Beverley/Clarke
Henry/Farmer/McDonald
Powell/Bryant
Washington/Sanchez/Johnson

And another thing.....HAD HE DONE WHAT HE WAS HIRED TO DO HERE, HE WOULD LIKELY BE THE HEAD COACH AT KENTUCKY!!! He would not be here anyway. Think about that.

[Deep Shoat]

If he was coming off a 27 win season and the best record in twenty years fans wouldn't be discussing replacing him at other schools because they still hated his mentor or felt they had to take sides between him and Frank.

Again, that isn't what is going on.  People are frustrated because, 27 wins last season or not, we still looked like a mediocre team more often than not, and proved it by losing to a mediocre North Carolina team on the first weekend, then lost almost the whole team and replaced 1 of them so that we are now experiencing a crappy season. 

And with that, MOST fans are still trying to avoid posting negative about CMA.  There are only a handful who constantly gripe, but you guys turn them into an army with your constant unicorns and rainbows routine.

[Atlhogfan1]

Most reasonable posters can see that this would have been a tournament team if not for a string of events that occurred. This would have been two years in a row in the tourney and looking at three straight with what we have coming next year.

Furthermore, lets start making the tournament regularly the expectation instead of demanding deep runs as the bar. Those will come when we start getting in the tournament pretty much every year and that's what's coming. Still, there will be those who will continue to raise the bar. Nolan had people question his coaching ability in the middle of back to back appearances in the NCAA title game. So Arkansas has a small segment of Arkansas fans (the T & A crowd that Nolan referred to) who will always resent CMA and any sign of a stumble brings them out in full force.

We are getting to closer to it.....  Just a few more posts. 

[Deep Shoat]

I bet Mizzou is certainly missing him.

He did a lot better job at Mizzou, didn't he?

[hogsanity]

Most reasonable posters can see that this would have been a tournament team if not for a string of events that occurred. This would have been two years in a row in the tourney and looking at three straight with what we have coming next year.

Furthermore, lets start making the tournament regularly the expectation instead of demanding deep runs as the bar. Those will come when we start getting in the tournament pretty much every year and that's what's coming. Still, there will be those who will continue to raise the bar. Nolan had people question his coaching ability in the middle of back to back appearances in the NCAA title game. So Arkansas has a small segment of Arkansas fans (the T & A crowd that Nolan referred to) who will always resent CMA and any sign of a stumble brings them out in full force.

FIVE years, FIVE recruiting classes. IT is not like people are criticizing him after 1 season or 1 game. He has now coached over 150 games as the Hog HC and we are still hearing " Help is coming " or " wait until he has time to get his players here".

I just wish some of you would be honest and admit you don't care if they win at all as long as Mike roams to sideline.

I have nothing against MA personally, i have never met him, he just does not win enough games. Now we are being told to just wait til next year or the next, and if next year turns out poor we will be told that 2018 will be the year.

I said it before he was hired. if you want a guy who will have you around the bubble for the ncaat half the time, safely in the ncaat now and then, maybe making a sweet 16 run,  and then have a couple years like this one, Mike is your guy. However, if that is your expectation for the program, you already had that guy, TWICE in Stan and Pel. 

[Atlhogfan1]

Still feel this way d?  Have any thoughts on how Coach A has recruited the guard and forward positions?

dont get me wrong, I feel that our biggest problem is a lack of 6'4" to 6'6" gaurds who can not only slash to the goal or shoot over the defense but cant also defend (pro type guards).

[TomBigBeeHog]

Again, that isn't what is going on.  People are frustrated because, 27 wins last season or not, we still looked like a mediocre team more often than not, and proved it by losing to a mediocre North Carolina team on the first weekend, then lost almost the whole team and replaced 1 of them so that we are now experiencing a crappy season. 

And with that, MOST fans are still trying to avoid posting negative about CMA.  There are only a handful who constantly gripe, but you guys turn them into an army with your constant unicorns and rainbows routine.

No unicorns and rainbows here. Not sure about the "you guys" thing. I am not part of any group. Just voicing my opinion on the intensity of criticism during what was known to be a down year prior to the season starting.

[Atlhogfan1]

No unicorns and rainbows here. Not sure about the "you guys" thing. I am not part of any group. Just voicing my opinion on the intensity of criticism during what was known to be a down year prior to the season starting.

This isn't intense comparatively to what some of our other football and basketball coaches have received. 

[Deep Shoat]

No unicorns and rainbows here. Not sure about the "you guys" thing. I am not part of any group. Just voicing my opinion on the intensity of criticism during what was known to be a down year prior to the season starting.

And just because people knew it was going to be a down year doesn't make CMA immune to criticism about it.  It's HIS fault it's a down year.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

This thread is obviously an attempt at creating non-inflammatory and fruitful discussions.

I'm waiting with orgasmic anticipation to read the absolute treasures that will be so plentiful.....and different, than in other threads.

[hogsanity]

No unicorns and rainbows here. Not sure about the "you guys" thing. I am not part of any group. Just voicing my opinion on the intensity of criticism during what was known to be a down year prior to the season starting.

Every game, good or bad, win or lose, there will be the inevitable threads with titles like " I still like or coach " " Mike is getting it done" " most underrated coach in the history of mankind " ok I made up PART of that last one.

They played well Wed night, maybe the best 40 minutes they had strung together all year, and I posted such. But, in some ways, it makes the losses to inferior teams that much more galling. He can get them up to beat #5, but can't get them up to beat Mercer or Akron, or Wake or Stanford. Did that game show the Hogs are really better than their record? Is A&M a fraud #5 that will go out in the 1st weekend of the ncaat? A little of both?

[The_Iceman]

FIVE years, FIVE recruiting classes. IT is not like people are criticizing him after 1 season or 1 game. He has now coached over 150 games as the Hog HC and we are still hearing " Help is coming " or " wait until he has time to get his players here".

I just wish some of you would be honest and admit you don't care if they win at all as long as Mike roams to sideline.

I have nothing against MA personally, i have never met him, he just does not win enough games. Now we are being told to just wait til next year or the next, and if next year turns out poor we will be told that 2018 will be the year.

I said it before he was hired. if you want a guy who will have you around the bubble for the ncaat half the time, safely in the ncaat now and then, maybe making a sweet 16 run,  and then have a couple years like this one, Mike is your guy. However, if that is your expectation for the program, you already had that guy, TWICE in Stan and Pel. 

Exactly.

[Atlhogfan1]

This thread is obviously an attempt at creating non-inflammatory and fruitful discussions.

I'm waiting with orgasmic anticipation to read the absolute treasures that will be so plentiful.....and different, than in other threads.

Some are more emotionally invested than others:

MIKE ANDERSON BRINGS A STYLE OF BASKETBALL THAT WAS PART OF THE RAZORBACK TRADITION. 40 MINUTES OF HELL WAS WHAT WE WERE ABOUT. WE WHAD DOWN YEARS WITH NOLAN , BUT AT LEAST WE WERE   GOING TO THE BIG DANCE ON  A CONSTANT BASIS. NOW WE CANNOT EVEN DO THAT. MIKE ANDERSON DESERVES A REAL SHOT. WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT THAT TRADITION. IT WAS OUR TRADEMAKMARK.

[root_hawg]

They did great job against AM, winning when they werent shooting well

[The_Iceman]

Some are more emotionally invested than others:

Still feel this way d?  Have any thoughts on how Coach A has recruited the guard and forward positions?

Kinda creepy dude.

[Atlhogfan1]

It is so easy to watch Mizzou and mistake them for one of the old Arkansas teams with the way they play. I miss that style of play.

[dsims2k3]

Some are more emotionally invested than others:

CMA desserves much criticism, but not to the extent seen on this forum.  I'm a bit biased, I'm grown enough to admit that.  (It's the style of play I grew up watching, heck the style is played in the NBA on the regular).

As far as expectations. I do expect to go the dance most years, but I also understand the circumstances that led to where we are. No use in wallowing in it, just get better. We are a football 1st school, yet the standards are lower for the sport. While at the same time it's expected to stand to toe with Bama and LSU more times than not. Rebuild's are tolerated in every other sport at the U of A.

[Deep Shoat]

They did great job against AM, winning when they werent shooting well

Agreed.

[TomBigBeeHog]

This thread is obviously an attempt at creating non-inflammatory and fruitful discussions.

I'm waiting with orgasmic anticipation to read the absolute treasures that will be so plentiful.....and different, than in other threads.

I think you are right. I'm abandoning this line of conversation for the day. Think I will get out this afternoon and have a beer or two and get ready to call the Hogs at the game tomorrow.

[Deep Shoat]

CMA desserves much criticism, but not to the extent seen on this forum.  I'm a bit biased, I'm grown enough to admit that.  (It's the style of play I grew up watching, heck the style is played in the NBA on the regular).

As far as expectations. I do expect to go the dance most years, but I also understand the circumstances that led to where we are. No use in wallowing in it, just get better. We are a football 1st school, yet the standards are lower for the sport. While at the same time it's expected to stand to toe with Bama and LSU more times than not. Rebuild's are tolerated in every other sport at the U of A.

THIS IS YEAR 5!!  IT STOPPED BEING A REBUILD 2 SEASONS AGO!!

[Atlhogfan1]

CMA desserves much criticism, but not to the extent seen on this forum.  I'm a bit biased, I'm grown enough to admit that.  (It's the style of play I grew up watching, heck the style is played in the NBA on the regular).

As far as expectations. I do expect to go the dance most years, but I also understand the circumstances that led to where we are. No use in wallowing in it, just get better. We are a football 1st school, yet the standards are lower for the sport. While at the same time it's expected to stand to toe with Bama and LSU more times than not. Rebuild's are tolerated in every other sport at the U of A.

What should the criticism limit be then?

How has this rebuild not been tolerated?  The football jealousy is stupid.

No other sport comes close to registering except baseball and we know it isn't in the rebuilding discussion.  Someday, a coach will have to live up to Norm and DVH in the view of some fans.  Not something to discuss now. 

[azhog10]

I am really impressed with how this team competes despite its limitations. I know some are taking the opportunity to fire more daggers now and some were very persistent critics last year during a very good season. Smh.

Still, I like where we are headed overall as a program. I believe we will win again at a high level but CMA will never ever silence the level of criticism he will receive at Arkansas from a small persistent group, no matter what heights he takes this program to and he would never face this level of criticism at any place other than Arkansas.

This to me is the funny part. Last year there were the same people talking about how bad CMA was and that we could be a final four team without him. However, this year, it's well yeah we were good last year but that was last year. This is year "5" and we aren't very good. So every year it's something else. However, I get the people that have been on board the first 4 years and are upset that this is the product we put out there. However, to act as though a coach is going to improve his record year after year is crazy. No coach does that, and every coach has a year where they don't improve record wise. Things happened that led to it and the staff is responsible for some of that, some of that was really bad fortune. Either way the same people will complain whether we are winning 25 plus games or only 16.

Those same people expect an elite 8 or better finish, yet are okay with football finishing in the top half of the SEC and a respectable (not BCS) bowl game. Sadly those two aren't even close to the same.

[TomBigBeeHog]

What should the criticism limit be then?

How has this rebuild not been tolerated?  The football jealousy is stupid.

No other sport comes close to registering except baseball and we know it isn't in the rebuilding discussion.  Someday, a coach will have to live up to Norm and DVH in the view of some fans.  Not something to discuss now.

The football jealousy you speak of is nonexistent as far as I can see. Football has never won an undisputed championship. Basketball team has gone to the title game twice (back to back) and won an undisputed title on the floor against the field in a tournament instead of a poll popularity contest that wasn't even a consensus.

If you are talking about recent performance, there is no accomplishment on the field by the football team to be envious of as well. Both programs are building toward and trying to sustain success. Neither is there yet. I hope both will be soon but this football team versus basketball team nonsense is stupid even for Hogville.

[Deep Shoat]

This to me is the funny part. Last year there were the same people talking about how bad CMA was and that we could be a final four team without him. However, this year, it's well yeah we were good last year but that was last year. This is year "5" and we aren't very good. So every year it's something else. However, I get the people that have been on board the first 4 years and are upset that this is the product we put out there. However, to act as though a coach is going to improve his record year after year is crazy. No coach does that, and every coach has a year where they don't improve record wise. Things happened that led to it and the staff is responsible for some of that, some of that was really bad fortune. Either way the same people will complain whether we are winning 25 plus games or only 16.

Again, bull.

If he wins consistently he will be fine.  1 tourney appearance followed by a "down year" that is entirely CMA's fault is going to cause people to be less than patient.  Top that off with the fact that his style of basketball makes many fans frustrated even when it wins, because they do so many things so poorly as a trade off for speeding up the tempo and creating a few turnovers.

[azhog10]

FIVE years, FIVE recruiting classes. IT is not like people are criticizing him after 1 season or 1 game. He has now coached over 150 games as the Hog HC and we are still hearing " Help is coming " or " wait until he has time to get his players here".

I just wish some of you would be honest and admit you don't care if they win at all as long as Mike roams to sideline.

I have nothing against MA personally, i have never met him, he just does not win enough games. Now we are being told to just wait til next year or the next, and if next year turns out poor we will be told that 2018 will be the year.

I said it before he was hired. if you want a guy who will have you around the bubble for the ncaat half the time, safely in the ncaat now and then, maybe making a sweet 16 run,  and then have a couple years like this one, Mike is your guy. However, if that is your expectation for the program, you already had that guy, TWICE in Stan and Pel.

Really? You waited till year 5 to complain? Get real.....you were bitching and moaning going into, during, and after year 4. The most successful season since 1995......but yet you want to act like all this started this season....It did not.

[Atlhogfan1]

The football jealousy you speak of is nonexistent as far as I can see. Football has never won an undisputed championship. Basketball team has gone to the title game twice (back to back) and won an undisputed title on the floor against the field in a tournament instead of a poll popularity contest that wasn't even a consensus.

If you are talking about recent performance, there is no accomplishment on the field by the football team to be envious of as well. Both programs are building toward and trying to sustain success. Neither is there yet. I hope both will be soon but this football team versus basketball team nonsense is stupid even for Hogville.

You are seeing what you want to see.  The jealousy of the attention and perceived support football and the football coaches receive is very real - not jealousy over performance. 

[azhog10]

Some are more emotionally invested than others:

Dear god you must have an immense amount of time to just search through old posts. It's kind of creepy and has a HA tone to it yet again. Brothers maybe?

[HawgAdvocate]

This to me is the funny part. Last year there were the same people talking about how bad CMA was and that we could be a final four team without him. However, this year, it's well yeah we were good last year but that was last year. This is year "5" and we aren't very good. So every year it's something else. However, I get the people that have been on board the first 4 years and are upset that this is the product we put out there. However, to act as though a coach is going to improve his record year after year is crazy. No coach does that, and every coach has a year where they don't improve record wise. Things happened that led to it and the staff is responsible for some of that, some of that was really bad fortune. Either way the same people will complain whether we are winning 25 plus games or only 16.

Those same people expect an elite 8 or better finish, yet are okay with football finishing in the top half of the SEC and a respectable (not BCS) bowl game. Sadly those two aren't even close to the same.

I don't know about y'all, but I'm curious to know who all these 'same people' with amazing expectations, actually are.

[azhog10]

Again, bull.

If he wins consistently he will be fine.  1 tourney appearance followed by a "down year" that is entirely CMA's fault is going to cause people to be less than patient.  Top that off with the fact that his style of basketball makes many fans frustrated even when it wins, because they do so many things so poorly as a trade off for speeding up the tempo and creating a few turnovers.

Ahhhh now I see what I'm dealing with. At first I thought you were just a misinformed poster. Now I realize not only are you unaware of some facts, but you have very little basketball knowledge, and there may be another issue built into this that I'd rather not touch. Continue with your bull and i will watch from the side.

[hogsanity]

Really? You waited till year 5 to complain? Get real.....you were bitching and moaning going into, during, and after year 4. The most successful season since 1995......but yet you want to act like all this started this season....It did not.

Where did I say I waited? I CLEARLY said I first said that BEFORE HE WAS HIRED. I did not want him hired for the very reasons we see today, some are willing to give Mike Anderson 2 decades to turn things around when they would be standing in front of BWA with signs calling for the firing of any of other coach who had produced 1 NCAAT appearance in 5 seasons.

[Atlhogfan1]

Dear god you must have an immense amount of time to just search through old posts. It's kind of creepy and has a HA tone to it yet again. Brothers maybe?

It was very easy.  It was on the last page of d's post history.  Only took a minute.  The Campaigners who haven't been banned since the Campaign years are easily researched.  Why does it bother you his post history was brought into this discussion?  He is complaining about the criticism our coach is receiving.  Shouldn't we have an idea of where he may be coming from?  We know with you why you feel so passionately about the staff. 

[azhog10]

I don't know about y'all, but I'm curious to know who all these 'same people' with amazing expectations, actually are.

Oh wow! You must not read much. If you are that confused not sure I can even try to help you.


But knowing your post history, I'd imagine you are pretty savy with that search feature......If not have ATL help you out.

[Dropkick]

Nothing more and nothing less.

So you started this thread to bait them?

[Atlhogfan1]

This to me is the funny part. Last year there were the same people talking about how bad CMA was and that we could be a final four team without him. However, this year, it's well yeah we were good last year but that was last year. This is year "5" and we aren't very good. So every year it's something else. However, I get the people that have been on board the first 4 years and are upset that this is the product we put out there. However, to act as though a coach is going to improve his record year after year is crazy. No coach does that, and every coach has a year where they don't improve record wise. Things happened that led to it and the staff is responsible for some of that, some of that was really bad fortune. Either way the same people will complain whether we are winning 25 plus games or only 16.

Those same people expect an elite 8 or better finish, yet are okay with football finishing in the top half of the SEC and a respectable (not BCS) bowl game. Sadly those two aren't even close to the same.

Want to pull some expectations from the Campaign years of what Anderson would do at Arkansas if hired?  Those changed quickly. 

Thanks for that demonstration of jealousy for the perceived support football receives. 

[azhog10]

It was very easy.  It was on the last page of d's post history.  Only took a minute.  The Campaigners who haven't been banned since the Campaign years are easily researched.  Why does it bother you his post history was brought into this discussion?  He is complaining about the criticism our coach is receiving.  Shouldn't we have an idea of where he may be coming from?  We know with you why you feel so passionately about the staff.

More power to you. Just seemed like a lot of effort to make a point that seems shallow and uneventful. But hey I'm sure I've done something similar in the past as well.

[hogsanity]

Those same people expect an elite 8 or better finish, yet are okay with football finishing in the top half of the SEC and a respectable (not BCS) bowl game. Sadly those two aren't even close to the same.

Show me anyone who EXPECTS a Elite 8 or better finish. Are we talking this season or just at some point sometime? We'd be happy with just being in the NCAAT most years.

[azhog10]

Thanks for that demonstration of jealousy for the perceived support football receives.

I'm not jealous of football. I actually love our football program and coach. I take a lot of heat over CBB than I do CMA from the casual fan but I take that as a good thing as CBB does his best to get the name out there. I also beleive we are headed in the right direction. I know less about coaching football so at times I get more frustrated with CBB more out of a lack of knowledge I would presume than anything. I don't agree with some of his decisions in games but that doesn't mean I don't block out my saturdays or make sure to record the game if I can't watch it live.

However, none of that takes away from the culture and what's "acceptable" between the two programs. No matter the reason it doesn't take much sense to see that the casual football fan is okay with a slightly better than .500 season, just as long as we make a bowl and we win it. That seems to always settle the fan base down and give them something to dream and hold on to till the season starts next year. I think CBB will do great, and I HOPE we get to a BCS bowl or even better. You'd be lying if you said the expectations for basketball and football are the same, and the amount of money given for assistants is nowhere close. I am not saying our assisstants deserve more money, and I don't think until forced CMA will make a change. But if he is forced idk that he gets the type of bankroll CBB has gotten.

[azhog10]

Show me anyone who EXPECTS a Elite 8 or better finish. Are we talking this season or just at some point sometime? We'd be happy with just being in the NCAAT most years.

Not this season. I'm speaking in general there have been people that have said they expect us to an elite 8 by a certain year.....or consistently in the sweet 16, comments like that.

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Posters were piling it on last year and it was a good year

[hogsanity]

I'm not jealous of football. I actually love our football program and coach. I take a lot of heat over CBB than I do CMA from the casual fan but I take that as a good thing as CBB does his best to get the name out there. I also beleive we are headed in the right direction. I know less about coaching football so at times I get more frustrated with CBB more out of a lack of knowledge I would presume than anything. I don't agree with some of his decisions in games but that doesn't mean I don't block out my saturdays or make sure to record the game if I can't watch it live.

However, none of that takes away from the culture and what's "acceptable" between the two programs. No matter the reason it doesn't take much sense to see that the casual football fan is okay with a slightly better than .500 season, just as long as we make a bowl and we win it. That seems to always settle the fan base down and give them something to dream and hold on to till the season starts next year. I think CBB will do great, and I HOPE we get to a BCS bowl or even better. You'd be lying if you said the expectations for basketball and football are the same, and the amount of money given for assistants is nowhere close. I am not saying our assisstants deserve more money, and I don't think until forced CMA will make a change. But if he is forced idk that he gets the type of bankroll CBB has gotten.

Well, football is king and brings in the money. That explains the pay difference.

As for expectations, I equate just making a bowl with making the ncaat, it means you had at least an okay season. Is it right that you can do that in football by going .500 but in basketball you probably have to be around .667 win% to make the ncaat as an at large, you might could debate that, but thats the landscape of the two sports. 

[Pork Twain]

We need more high quality threads like this