Question about charging calls and the arc under the basket

[MB Hog]

I generally agree with the charge/block rule where a block is automatically called when the defenders feet are not outside of the arc.  When a player drives to the hole, the defender shouldn't be able to camp out right under the basket and be awarded with a charge when the offensive player lands, even if the defender's feet are set.

However, the play with Kingsley against TAM has me thinking.  He was standing on/inside the arc, but the TAM player got called for the charge, much to the dismay of the color commentator.  The thing is, the A&M player wasn't driving to the basket.  He was bodied up against Kingsley, lowered he shoulder, and knocked him out of the way to clear an opening for the layup.  In my opinion, that is the reason it was called a charge.

So, is the rule so specific that all body contact under the basket is called a block if the defender isn't outside the arc, or is there some wiggle room when the offensive player isn't driving, lowers his shoulder, and just powers his way through the defender to the basket?

[hawginbigd1]

You made me go do some reading, apparently the restricted arc only applies to secondary defenders! So if you drive by your primary or closest defender, the next guy has to be outside the arc or it is a block! However if the driver puts up a knee or clears out with the arm or shoulder it doesn't apply! So in that case last night Kingsley was the primary defender so the arc doesn't apply!

[hogginbama]

You made me go do some reading, apparently the restricted arc only applies to secondary defenders! So if you drive by your primary or closest defender, the next guy has to be outside the arc or it is a block! However if the driver puts up a knee or clears out with the arm or shoulder it doesn't apply! So in that case last night Kingsley was the primary defender so the arc doesn't apply!

Guess the ESPN hacks need to brush up on the rules before they start complaining.

[MB Hog]

You made me go do some reading, apparently the restricted arc only applies to secondary defenders! So if you drive by your primary or closest defender, the next guy has to be outside the arc or it is a block! However if the driver puts up a knee or clears out with the arm or shoulder it doesn't apply! So in that case last night Kingsley was the primary defender so the arc doesn't apply!

Thanks for the research!  That makes much more sense.  Otherwise, the offensive player could just push the defender out of the way if he is inside the arc.

[ChicoHog]

I heard Dino Gaudio say "Secondary defender" on one of those calls.  Can't remember if it was the Kingsley one.  So he is saying that a help defender cannot come over and get a charge from the driving player if the defender is in the semi-circle. 

[gmarv]

yeah you would think common sense would be a easy thing but if your biased then it doesn,t apply.the one announcer really seemed to like a&m.

Thanks for the research!  That makes much more sense.  Otherwise, the offensive player could just push the defender out of the way if he is inside the arc.

[wheelspigharvey]

You made me go do some reading, apparently the restricted arc only applies to secondary defenders! So if you drive by your primary or closest defender, the next guy has to be outside the arc or it is a block! However if the driver puts up a knee or clears out with the arm or shoulder it doesn't apply! So in that case last night Kingsley was the primary defender so the arc doesn't apply!

I think we could all benefit from more stuff like this here.

[MB Hog]

I heard Dino Gaudio say "Secondary defender" on one of those calls.  Can't remember if it was the Kingsley one.  So he is saying that a help defender cannot come over and get a charge from the driving player if the defender is in the semi-circle. 

I don't think it could have been that play.  As I said, Kingsley was bodied up to the A&M player straight up.  Then the A&M player lowered his shoulder, clear Kingsley out, and put up the shot.  Moses was the primary defender the whole time.  He just happened to be inside the arc.

[MB Hog]

yeah you would think common sense would be a easy thing but if your biased then it doesn,t apply.the one announcer really seemed to like a&m.

I thought the same thing about the announcer (Dino).  I even googled him to see where he was from... last coaching stop was Wake Forest.

He would compliment the Hogs from time to time, but during the action you could hear his bias.

Example one:  Anton Beard drives to the basket close to the baseline, gets between the defender and the backboard to put up the layup, gets major body contact and knocked to the ground, and misses the shot.  Obvious foul.  Commentators said nothing.  Continuing the play to the other end of the floor, A&M had a couple of shots, but our defense was active and everyone was pretty physical.  Dino exclaims, "how is that not a foul?"  Maybe there was a foul, but why the silence when Beard got fouled on the other end?

Example two:  Very late in the game, A&M gets a steal and a fast-break, but Arkansas hustles back and intercepts a pass to stop the opportunity.  Dino says, "Awww," showing his disappointment that A&M missed a chance.  Why not, "great hustle by Arkansas to get that back?"

Yes, I definitely felt like he was all in for the Aggies.

[BRHogfan]

I thought the same thing about the announcer (Dino).  I even googled him to see where he was from... last coaching stop was Wake Forest.

He would compliment the Hogs from time to time, but during the action you could hear his bias.

Example one:  Anton Beard drives to the basket close to the baseline, gets between the defender and the backboard to put up the layup, gets major body contact and knocked to the ground, and misses the shot.  Obvious foul.  Commentators said nothing.  Continuing the play to the other end of the floor, A&M had a couple of shots, but our defense was active and everyone was pretty physical.  Dino exclaims, "how is that not a foul?"  Maybe there was a foul, but why the silence when Beard got fouled on the other end?

Example two:  Very late in the game, A&M gets a steal and a fast-break, but Arkansas hustles back and intercepts a pass to stop the opportunity.  Dino says, "Awww," showing his disappointment that A&M missed a chance.  Why not, "great hustle by Arkansas to get that back?"

Yes, I definitely felt like he was all in for the Aggies.

These things absolutely drove me crazy during the game.  Chuck is a Hog fan and on the radio calls, he doesn't do this kind of stuff.  It's just insane.

[ShadowHawg]

You made me go do some reading, apparently the restricted arc only applies to secondary defenders! So if you drive by your primary or closest defender, the next guy has to be outside the arc or it is a block! However if the driver puts up a knee or clears out with the arm or shoulder it doesn't apply! So in that case last night Kingsley was the primary defender so the arc doesn't apply!

Thanks for that. Do you know if they from inside the arc to the outside if it is still a charge? Seems like I heard a commentator say that once.

[BRHogfan]

Thanks for that. Do you know if they from inside the arc to the outside if it is still a charge? Seems like I heard a commentator say that once.

As long as they aren't moving forward when the contact occurs.  They have to have their feet fully out of the arc and be set.  Additionally, if it appears their heels would be on the line, but they are off the ground, then they are still not out of the arc.